EPTBlizzard still thinks it's fine.
What is the point of even listening to pros then. LOL
Balance Status Update 4/29/14 - Page 18
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Blizzard still thinks it's fine. What is the point of even listening to pros then. LOL | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:45 Psychobabas wrote: So pros are telling Blizzard that TvP needs addressing. Blizzard still thinks it's fine. What is the point of even listening to pros then. LOL Just to clarify, they're saying that pro players are saying Protoss is struggling against Terran and they don't agree. I think as more Terran players learn to use the new maps and buffed widow mines to their advantage the MU will get a lot harder for P. But it should be manageable I think. It's really really hard to open Templar against anyone who knows that they're doing with Widow Mines these days.. I think that's what Rain was talking about when they inteviewed him at GSL and what other pro Ps are saying too. Go Templar and face MMMM or go Colossus and face SCV pulls (just look at Illusion yesterday....) I'm ok with seeing how that MU goes though. I think P can adapt and if not hopefully something will change. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:49 DinoMight wrote: Just to clarify, they're saying that pro players are saying Protoss is struggling against Terran and they don't agree. I think as more Terran players learn to use the new maps and buffed widow mines to their advantage the MU will get a lot harder for P. But it should be manageable I think. It's really really hard to open Templar against anyone who knows that they're doing with Widow Mines these days.. I think that's what Rain was talking about when they inteviewed him at GSL and what other pro Ps are saying too. Go Templar and face MMMM or go Colossus and face SCV pulls (just look at Illusion yesterday....) I'm ok with seeing how that MU goes though. I think P can adapt and if not hopefully something will change. Oh wow I misread that. So some pros are saying that Protoss is struggling vs Terran. I.. don't even know what to say lol. | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:54 Psychobabas wrote: Oh wow I misread that. So some pros are saying that Protoss is struggling vs Terran. I.. don't even know what to say lol. You are not aware of the latest news? Terran is like BL/Infestor level imba. Rain confirmed it. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:42 Redfish wrote: Sigh. The reason pro players are giving that feedback about TvP is because they're using the new units, the new buffs, and the new maps to their full potential. The new maps have thirds that are incredibly difficult for Protoss to defend and a lot more open mains which makes drop defense a lot more difficult. In addition, the shorter rush distances and high ground chokes on maps like Overgrowth, Waystation and Merry Go Round make it simultaneously harder to break Mech as well as easier to push out while using Mech. I can say as a former Random player and now Protoss who has played since the WoL Beta, this is by far the toughest map pool for Protoss that I can remember. Many of the more casual players that continue to use straight-up Bio with none of the new buffed mines, no tank support, and without abusing the wide-open drop paths are still losing more often than not because they're still doing the same thing they have been for so long. It's not Blizzard's job to bludgeon Terrans over the head with buffs to try and force outdated, one-dimensional styles to work, but with the recent WM buff and these proposed buffs, that's what they seem hell-bent on doing. The players need to figure out what options their race has for themselves and it's their fault if they don't - it's what got told to Protoss players who were having a ridiculously hard time (and still are) with Mutalisks. Give it time, Blizz. The season just started. Right, because Blizzard never buffed the phoenix range to counter Mutas... Funny you mention high ground chokes making it easier for mech. Doesn't that also make it better to protoss defend due to their AoE vs bio? And about casual players, so I guess all the pro terrans should be rolling over protosses with their new mines and tanks, right? As for TvZ, blizzard mentioned that the zergs usually comes out ahead after the mid game. I think a lot of that has to do with the muta harass. Terran drop play has drawbacks in that if you get spotted, you can get your medivacs picked off. With zerg, pro zergs are good enough that they rarely lose anything even if defense is in place. They just pull back and attack else where and after enough attempts(with muta regen), you will find pick offs here and there. How about giving Thors a relevation type spell. So if your mutas get tagged by a thor, you can't easily harass again for 60 seconds. It doesn't really hurt in straight up fights but it will make defending mutas more rewarding just like defending a drop can be rewarding. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 30 2014 22:55 SC2Toastie wrote: Well, it isn't good. The only thing it could do is make for an easier mech transition, and it might open up a very powerful attack with the 6/8 hellions you make early game. With the 1/1 push, instead of 6/8 hellions there can be 6/8 hellbats, which are a lot more powerful in a straight up fight. The upgrade buff is rubbish, unnecessary and covers nothing. You know what though? It's actually good if there are possibilities for Terrans to win games early on... In the current state of the game Terran has very few "all-ins" and ways to win early on versus Zerg and Protoss. While Protoss have the opposite issue - too many all-ins and ways to win early. Zerg has some nice all-ins with roaches and ling banes...so if hellbat transformation upgrade removal adds in another attack or two possible for Terran...that is actually really good and WILL help the balance of the game out more to not be so 1 sided in terms of aggressive options. Most of Terran's aggressive options were repeatedly nerfed to the point most games involving T are 100% macro games nowadays. | ||
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xxxKagexxx
France43 Posts
you'll lose a lot of player bye bye ! Those who vote are those who've not stop playin ... gg ! Byebye sc2 if you listen this poll... | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:57 avilo wrote: You know what though? It's actually good if there are possibilities for Terrans to win games early on... In the current state of the game Terran has very few "all-ins" and ways to win early on versus Zerg and Protoss. While Protoss have the opposite issue - too many all-ins and ways to win early. Zerg has some nice all-ins with roaches and ling banes...so if hellbat transformation upgrade removal adds in another attack or two possible for Terran...that is actually really good and WILL help the balance of the game out more to not be so 1 sided in terms of aggressive options. Most of Terran's aggressive options were repeatedly nerfed to the point most games involving T are 100% macro games nowadays. It's not good if that possibility to outright win the game comes with a 3cc opener, though. I'm sure you and your followers 'd like that, but I play the other races as well. Don't underestimate the effect this might have - just like the queen patch increased the speed Zerg got lategame, this might substantially delay that. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:31 DinoMight wrote: The way I see it the problem in TvZ is: With the widow mine splash reduction and the muta buff Terran is a bit lacking in splash damage or is too immobile vs. ling bane muta. I think removing the transformation servos requirement rewards players who are able to preserve their first few hellions with a bit more splash damage in the midgame to help them out, so it's positive. Whether or not that's enough to make a difference remains to be seen. I think there is pretty clearly going to be a difference with adding those 6-8 hellions as hellbats in the early bio pushes. As a combination of bigger more open maps and the mine nerf zergs have been trading really well vs early bio pushes. What we are seeing now are cases where after we beat a Terran attack we look down and see that we still have an army left over. So cool sddddddd->20 drones. Whereas if due to hellbats we lost more lings and banelings, we would need to replace some of what we lost which slows down the economy somewhat. And that is just if terrans don't change up their meta. If they start adding in more hellbat rushes than it would be another thing zergs have to accout for in the early game. | ||
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matthy
66 Posts
On April 30 2014 22:55 avilo wrote: Gotta reiterate what you posted, i've said it a million times as well. Dkim is continually willing to buff bio repeatedly, even the last patch remember they buffed the ghost claiming to help mech lol. It'd be nice for mech TvP for tanks to not suck :D Thank you for supporting it. Kim also talked about that siege tanks is not needed in every match up and therefore tanks need no buff vs toss mech. but has anyone ever seen real mech without siege tanks? That is the spine of mech. I think they just want to stretch it to LOTV to improve sales or something. but i hope not because LOTV will probably take 2 more years or so. You never see Mech TvP well avilo sometimes and painuser but never in GSL, WCS because it just sucks :/ | ||
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TXRaunchy
United States131 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 01 2014 00:18 TXRaunchy wrote: why always the terran buff?! Yeah it's disgusting how this race always gets the best of any patch. | ||
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r1flEx
Belgium256 Posts
changing the cost of upgrades isn't necessary the hellions changing to hellbats for free. ok but that ain't gonna change the balance they need to fix their mech so terran can transition from bio which is strong early game to mech which SHOULD be strong LATE game (which it absolutely isn't) | ||
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MagnuMizer
Denmark384 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On May 01 2014 00:28 MagnuMizer wrote: make orbital command center unable to lift off....................... Please. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On May 01 2014 00:28 MagnuMizer wrote: make orbital command center unable to lift off....................... The orbital being able to lift off is probably the only thing that allows terrans to recover from Zerg 2 base allin or semi allins. I don't think you really thought that suggestion through. | ||
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On April 30 2014 23:42 Redfish wrote: Sigh. The reason pro players are giving that feedback about TvP is because they're using the new units, the new buffs, and the new maps to their full potential. The new maps have thirds that are incredibly difficult for Protoss to defend and a lot more open mains which makes drop defense a lot more difficult. In addition, the shorter rush distances and high ground chokes on maps like Overgrowth, Waystation and Merry Go Round make it simultaneously harder to break Mech as well as easier to push out while using Mech. I can say as a former Random player and now Protoss who has played since the WoL Beta, this is by far the toughest map pool for Protoss that I can remember. Many of the more casual players that continue to use straight-up Bio with none of the new buffed mines, no tank support, and without abusing the wide-open drop paths are still losing more often than not because they're still doing the same thing they have been for so long. It's not Blizzard's job to bludgeon Terrans over the head with buffs to try and force outdated, one-dimensional styles to work, but with the recent WM buff and these proposed buffs, that's what they seem hell-bent on doing. The players need to figure out what options their race has for themselves and it's their fault if they don't - it's what got told to Protoss players who were having a ridiculously hard time (and still are) with Mutalisks. Give it time, Blizz. The season just started. Exactly. Protoss players figure out that phoenix is pretty good against mutalisks, especially with RANGE! Such innovative! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27262 Posts
On May 01 2014 00:33 imrusty269 wrote: Exactly. Protoss players figure out that phoenix is pretty good against mutalisks, especially with RANGE! Such innovative! While your sarcasm is well-directed when it comes to WoL, in the era of HoTS super-mutas Protoss would be truly horrible to play vs a Muta player in ZvP without that range upgrade to zone them out | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On May 01 2014 00:03 SC2Toastie wrote: It's not good if that possibility to outright win the game comes with a 3cc opener, though. I'm sure you and your followers 'd like that, but I play the other races as well. Don't underestimate the effect this might have - just like the queen patch increased the speed Zerg got lategame, this might substantially delay that. No i think everyone that plays/watches SC2 would like it that the game is more fair and it's not only P/Z that have early game aggressive or all-in options. I said it ages ago that if they are going to leave it so P/Z have more all-ins than Terran or ways to win the game early then they either have to: a) reduce the all-ins from the other races b) give Terran equally aggressive/all-in options Right now in the current game, everyone knows PvT and PvZ...there are a ton of Protoss all-ins which is why the design of Protoss gets a ton of flak for good reason. They should reduce the number of those and then TvP will be more balanced early game, or give Terran more early game aggro options vs Protoss by nerfing the nexus cannon. It's a bit ridiculous you think only Z/P should be allowed to win games early. Maybe you are not up with the state of SC2, but it's usually Terran as the one defending all-ins and Z/P choose whether to do them or to play straight up macro. There currently are no such options for Terran. Terran right now 100% has to play "straight up macro" for the majority of games. | ||
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mythandier
United States828 Posts
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