EPTi51 gives Miniraser loss for playing for stalemate - Page 18
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Coppii
Norway57 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
Blizzard is to blame because they haven't addressed swarm hosts already. edit assuming they did a regame after first draw? | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
On April 21 2014 03:26 Dazed_Spy wrote: Shouldnt a draw cause a fucking draw? Absurd ruling. An "absurd ruling" that stops people forcing draws after hour long stalemates over and over and leading to the rest of the tournament to fall massively behind schedule and is highly likely to be immensely boring and eventually going to piss the crowd off? This is a tournament that can't keep having one player continuously do shit like that, it's not like it takes place in their own studio ala ESL and DH tournaments. They rent that location for a certain period of time, Miniraser had already forced a regame once after 2 hours, then tried to force another after yet another hour. You really think they had to time to keep dealing with that shit after 1 game took 3 hours with no outcome whatsoever? | ||
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DBS
515 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On April 21 2014 04:24 KatatoniK wrote: The reality is, its a competition. If you cant win, the only excusable action is to push for a draw, which has happened countless times in sc2 as well as broodwar. People play for draws all the time, and sometimes it makes the schedule fucked up. Thats a small fucking price to pay then to have judges rule by fiat on who wins, rather than you know, who actually won.An "absurd ruling" that stops people forcing draws after hour long stalemates over and over and leading to the rest of the tournament to fall massively behind schedule and is highly likely to be immensely boring and eventually going to piss the crowd off? This is a tournament that can't keep having one player continuously do shit like that, it's not like it takes place in their own studio ala ESL and DH tournaments. They rent that location for a certain period of time, Miniraser had already forced a regame once after 2 hours, then tried to force another after yet another hour. You really think they had to time to keep dealing with that shit after 1 game took 3 hours with no outcome whatsoever? Competition being long, is obviously preferable to it being farcical. Which it now is. | ||
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riyanme
Philippines940 Posts
we are all going in circles mini failed to follow the absurd rule and got wasted, highly ridiculous rule but legitimate (see rules) we share his sentiment in our own different point of views blaming SH, the players, organizers, game and blizz bliz: should do something; either make radical changes or be a deaf organisers: should prepare a better ruling if this 'event' occurs; a sane, fair, logical course of action players: should read and follow the rules; should make considerations on the viewers, sponsors and self image netizens: reserves the right to whine, bash and etc., but we have to respect what been decided regardless of our opinions | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 21 2014 04:07 NukeD wrote: Dont blame the players and tournament organizers, blame the game. No, I think I am going to blame the player who decided to drag out every game once he realized that he couldn't win. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3561 Posts
An "absurd ruling" that stops people forcing draws after hour long stalemates over and over and leading to the rest of the tournament to fall massively behind schedule and is highly likely to be immensely boring and eventually going to piss the crowd off? It stops it, but both players equally deserve to go on, hence the draw. Should a consistently winning player, who only cannon rush, be punished for bringing the tournament ahead of schedule? winning or drawing, doesn't really make a difference since both of them aren't a loss. | ||
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
Quite a few sports have rules to prevent that sort of behaviour (shot clocks, points for aggression, timewasting rules). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 21 2014 05:38 MoonfireSpam wrote: Sounds like a good decision. Sounds like a situation where he couldn't win so just turtled up. Sortof like if a boxer was getting beaten up then hugged the ringpost so the opponent could only land illegal shots to the back. Quite a few sports have rules to prevent that sort of behaviour (shot clocks, points for aggression, timewasting rules). How dare you apply logic to this discussion or rational thought? I thought we were blaming Blizzard for everything? | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On April 21 2014 05:25 Plansix wrote: No, I think I am going to blame the player who decided to drag out every game once he realized that he couldn't win. Such an overlooked point | ||
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parkin
1091 Posts
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
Fundamentally, i think there's nothing wrong with going for a draw, even if intentional. For a spectator sport/game, the real problem is imo the time it takes to decide it. Especially the situations where one is mining and the other isnt, and the mining person can't defeat the other for a longer period of time, are very unsatisfactory for organizers, for viewers and for players. Personally, i look at blizzard for fixing that this is even a possibility. I don't know how exactly, but if these (specifically these kind of) stalemates become a structural problem, we can't really do anything else but turn to them. Secondly, although only slightly related to this case, one can lessen the delay by draws by counting the draws as 0.5 points for each player, instead of a regame. The player who has an lead of at least 1 point at the end of game X in a BOX wins. For last games ending in a draw, this obviously doesnt make a difference. But if 2 players would draw in game 1 and 2, the person winning game 3 wins the series. This will only lessen the time loss, it won't solve the underlying problem indeed. It's pretty sad things turned out this way. ): edit: I see people comparing sc2 to regular sports, for example plansix and his comparison with boxing. I think that such a rule should be implemented by blizzard, to ensure uniform ruling in all tournaments. The tournament rule is very understandable, but imo should not be necessary. Blaming blizzard for this is not justified, but monitoring these kind of games would be a good thing to do, to avoid structural damage to entertainment value. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
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Kracen
United Kingdom59 Posts
They had already spent 3 hours on one set, how much longer would it go if they did another re-game? 1 more hour? 2? maybe another forced draw happens, that is potentially another hour or so. Therefore these rules have to be in place to prevent this from happening. Those who say it isn't bad sportsmanship, well, it is, it shows blatant disrespect to the tournament admins who now have to reorganise everything in substantially less time. I feel as though I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that if a single game that was holding up the entire tournament was happening at DH, MLG, or WCS, to the point in which it is taking hours to finish due to forced draws, an admin would step in and end it one way or another. So, people need to stop criticising Multiplay, for two reasons: One, its in their rule set, deal with it. Two, the tournament has to move on to other games so they don't run over their allotted time restriction. The problem isn't in the rule set or the ruling that was made, as these are fail safes to ensure a single match doesn't go on for longer than it should. Now that we have that out of the way lets look at this the way it should be looked at. The problem lies within the game design, we shouldn't be rallying against the tournament, we should be rallying against the pathetically designed unit that is the Swarm Host that allows situations like this to occur and solutions need to be presented and then forced down Blizzards throat until they actually address this long overdue issue. The longest games used to be TvT mech versus mech into skyterran, and these were extremely rare and still only lasted about an hour and a bit at most. Now we have the potential for 2 hour+ games because as it turns out, infinite free units in a limited economy game is a very bad design. The game needs fixing, not the rules. TL:DR, Ruling was fair, all tournaments would of done the same, SH is broken, needs fixing by Blizzard. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
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