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On March 16 2014 08:18 aZealot wrote:
God that was a sick game. I had a goofy grin on my face when watching those carriers own all over the map.
sOs is such a smart Starcraft player. (I think herO is a better player, but, after watching that, I hope sOs takes the 100k.)
s0smart Kappa
I agree aZealot, and Lorch:
What a brilliant signature!
User was warned for this post
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a big part of why it worked was the +3 attack advantage over 0 armour on the vikings.
x2 shots per interceptor x many interceptors and carriers. it is a ton of extra damage in the first burst from graviton catapult.
if you match the upgrades, it's not nearly as bad.
ask any zerg about corruptors and they'll tell you that if the carriers have a +2 or +3 attack advantage the corruptors will disappear just like anything else (despite the starting 2 base armour). we've all lost to 13 carriers in the past.
air armour is vital, and there was none.
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Full credit to sOs...never have I seen - or you for that matter - sooo heavy phoenix play against Terran at such a high level of play and the fact that he went Colo, HT and Carrier is just incredible...Jakjji is not a weak Terran - he is a top 10 Terran in the world. No one! I repeat NO ONE...has tried that at that level of competition.
sOs shows why SC2 is a brilliant game...you think you know how to play? you think the game is figured out? you think everything is black and white...no no no...SC2 allows creativity and there are only a few players,,,sOs being one of them that exhibits incredibly imaginative and effective play.
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On March 16 2014 07:15 KingAlphard wrote:
Not sure why is everyone so surprised. Carriers have been proved to be almost unbeatable once massed up in good numbers against terran, every experienced protoss player should know that. The only reason why people don't go for them is their endless building time, however if you are able to survive it's a investment that really pays off. In alter'zim cross it's much easier than in other maps.
The only interesting thing is that he did that as a follow up to phoenix colossus, it's an interesting choice because he already had the upgrades and the tech quite early while doing a safe build and he could transition more easily. However I still think he could do it because of the particular situation he was in that game, it's not a solid style in general.
The thing is you don't really expect Carriers in a tournament with winner-takes-all $100,000 prize.
And you hardly ever bump into someone doing carriers on GM ladder so it's not surprising jjakji didn't see it coming.
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Do not try this at home. This is only meant for the highest level.
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I feel bad for tosses now. sOs is making it look like toss can do anything they want and crush terran. It was insanity and unfortunately for Jakjki it was sOs's insanity that prevailed.
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On March 16 2014 14:05 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Full credit to sOs...never have I seen - or you for that matter - sooo heavy phoenix play against Terran at such a high level of play and the fact that he went Colo, HT and Carrier is just incredible...Jakjji is not a weak Terran - he is a top 10 Terran in the world. No one! I repeat NO ONE...has tried that at that level of competition.
sOs shows why SC2 is a brilliant game...you think you know how to play? you think the game is figured out? you think everything is black and white...no no no...SC2 allows creativity and there are only a few players,,,sOs being one of them that exhibits incredibly imaginative and effective play.
Only protoss has that many different viable strategies, all-ins and playstyles.
Try to do random shit with zerg or terran and youll get destroyed.
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so basically all you gotta do is sneak in a couple of hidden expo's and as long as you can mine them out this strategy is GG. seems legit!
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It is nothing new, from liberty it was known that terran does not have counter to carriers/storm/feedback.
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On March 16 2014 17:05 Joedaddy wrote:
so basically all you gotta do is sneak in a couple of hidden expo's and as long as you can mine them out this strategy is GG. seems legit!
Don´t forget that sOs also crushed Jjakji in the first fight without carriers and that storm-colossi is quite good no matter what toss air you use with it.
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On March 16 2014 17:09 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 17:05 Joedaddy wrote:
so basically all you gotta do is sneak in a couple of hidden expo's and as long as you can mine them out this strategy is GG. seems legit! Don´t forget that sOs also crushed Jjakji in the first fight without carriers and that storm-colossi is quite good no matter what toss air you use with it.
Exactly... Im pretty sure anything with storm, archon, and colosus can destroy marine vikings...
Roach + templar would probably do just as good... queen+ templar would probably work too...
But one thing carrier does tho that is imba as hell.
There is no way in hell a human can do all the following super quickly: Shift target attack every single carriers ( 9 ish of them? so at least 2 seconds dedicated to that). EMP everything, stim the marines and move out of storm with everythng. If the vikings auto attack interceptors u just die, if you target carriers, you cant move out of storm with marines.
No way in hell anyone can do that, protoss just a moves and storm.
Trust me even as zerg, fighting lots of carriers with void rays and canons templars is hard is a bitch... you can cast chain fungals while shift attacking every carriers.
I really want the siege tanks to be able to protect marines better against templars and colosus. It would be so sick if tanks were good with marine marauders against toss, but it cant... Medivacs beeing 2 supply is a huge reasons of that. If you make bunch of siege tanks, have medivacs, then your army is sooo small that you just die to mass zlots and immortals lol.
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On March 16 2014 14:37 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:15 KingAlphard wrote:
Not sure why is everyone so surprised. Carriers have been proved to be almost unbeatable once massed up in good numbers against terran, every experienced protoss player should know that. The only reason why people don't go for them is their endless building time, however if you are able to survive it's a investment that really pays off. In alter'zim cross it's much easier than in other maps.
The only interesting thing is that he did that as a follow up to phoenix colossus, it's an interesting choice because he already had the upgrades and the tech quite early while doing a safe build and he could transition more easily. However I still think he could do it because of the particular situation he was in that game, it's not a solid style in general. The thing is you don't really expect Carriers in a tournament with winner-takes-all $100,000 prize. And you hardly ever bump into someone doing carriers on GM ladder so it's not surprising jjakji didn't see it coming.
I was mostly refering to people being surprised when carriers won the engagements. I also couldn't believe it when he started building carriers, but once he had 7-8 it should've been clear that he would win easily against jjakji's composition. Instead casters were like: "Omg he is moving out he will lose all his carriers!!!!11" (and most of them were even protoss players).
Thinking about it again, it wasn't a random choice. When he started the first 3 carriers, he had just won an engagement in his third with the phoenix/colossus composition, which meant that jjakji didn't have medivacs and couldn't be offensive for a while. That, and the huge attack distance of alter'zim cross position, could give him time to build up the carrier count, . Also sOs stated in the following interview that he had prepared this sort of carrier switch.
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On March 16 2014 16:55 Snake.69 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 14:05 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Full credit to sOs...never have I seen - or you for that matter - sooo heavy phoenix play against Terran at such a high level of play and the fact that he went Colo, HT and Carrier is just incredible...Jakjji is not a weak Terran - he is a top 10 Terran in the world. No one! I repeat NO ONE...has tried that at that level of competition.
sOs shows why SC2 is a brilliant game...you think you know how to play? you think the game is figured out? you think everything is black and white...no no no...SC2 allows creativity and there are only a few players,,,sOs being one of them that exhibits incredibly imaginative and effective play. Only protoss has that many different viable strategies, all-ins and playstyles. Try to do random shit with zerg or terran and youll get destroyed.
Toss has more it is true,,,,but Z and T both have many innovative strategies. Z has many all ins, T not so much. But were sOs' carriers random? No they were not...
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On March 16 2014 17:21 Snake.69 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 17:09 RaFox17 wrote:On March 16 2014 17:05 Joedaddy wrote:
so basically all you gotta do is sneak in a couple of hidden expo's and as long as you can mine them out this strategy is GG. seems legit! Don´t forget that sOs also crushed Jjakji in the first fight without carriers and that storm-colossi is quite good no matter what toss air you use with it. Exactly... Im pretty sure anything with storm, archon, and colosus can destroy marine vikings... Roach + templar would probably do just as good... queen+ templar would probably work too... But one thing carrier does tho that is imba as hell. There is no way in hell a human can do all the following super quickly: Shift target attack every single carriers ( 9 ish of them? so at least 2 seconds dedicated to that). EMP everything, stim the marines and move out of storm with everythng. If the vikings auto attack interceptors u just die, if you target carriers, you cant move out of storm with marines. No way in hell anyone can do that, protoss just a moves and storm. Trust me even as zerg, fighting lots of carriers with void rays and canons templars is hard is a bitch... you can cast chain fungals while shift attacking every carriers. I really want the siege tanks to be able to protect marines better against templars and colosus. It would be so sick if tanks were good with marine marauders against toss, but it cant... Medivacs beeing 2 supply is a huge reasons of that. If you make bunch of siege tanks, have medivacs, then your army is sooo small that you just die to mass zlots and immortals lol.
Zerg doesnt need nothing else than spores spores spores infestors and hydra or corruptor and vipers. It destroys carriers. You simply can't attack into that.
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Good guy SoS, showcasing everything that's wrong with Protoss game after game, but Blizzard just doesn't play attention.
Not that I wasn't mildly entertained watching Carriers. But it felt like Templar and Colossus won that game.
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On March 16 2014 18:20 Sneikku wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 17:21 Snake.69 wrote:On March 16 2014 17:09 RaFox17 wrote:On March 16 2014 17:05 Joedaddy wrote:
so basically all you gotta do is sneak in a couple of hidden expo's and as long as you can mine them out this strategy is GG. seems legit! Don´t forget that sOs also crushed Jjakji in the first fight without carriers and that storm-colossi is quite good no matter what toss air you use with it. Exactly... Im pretty sure anything with storm, archon, and colosus can destroy marine vikings... Roach + templar would probably do just as good... queen+ templar would probably work too... But one thing carrier does tho that is imba as hell. There is no way in hell a human can do all the following super quickly: Shift target attack every single carriers ( 9 ish of them? so at least 2 seconds dedicated to that). EMP everything, stim the marines and move out of storm with everythng. If the vikings auto attack interceptors u just die, if you target carriers, you cant move out of storm with marines. No way in hell anyone can do that, protoss just a moves and storm. Trust me even as zerg, fighting lots of carriers with void rays and canons templars is hard is a bitch... you can cast chain fungals while shift attacking every carriers. I really want the siege tanks to be able to protect marines better against templars and colosus. It would be so sick if tanks were good with marine marauders against toss, but it cant... Medivacs beeing 2 supply is a huge reasons of that. If you make bunch of siege tanks, have medivacs, then your army is sooo small that you just die to mass zlots and immortals lol. Zerg doesnt need nothing else than spores spores spores infestors and hydra or corruptor and vipers. It destroys carriers. You simply can't attack into that.
Yeah, carriers are useless against zerg because voidrays+ tempests are just better. They suck against corruptors, they suck against spores because interceptors explode immediately, and they still have a much worse range than tempests.
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I'm nearly speechless...
s0s was my favorite player since the beginning of WCS s1 2013... and to see this finals is incredible. s0s truly has developed his OWN meta game of being the wildcard master.
Those build mind games!
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EPT
