s0s Developing the Meta Game Before Our Very Eyes

On March 16 2014 01:23 torJey wrote:
If by new meta you mean bronze tactics.
Hey terrans, its your turn to feel the skytoss nonsense. Zergs are dealing with this for ages.

On March 16 2014 01:23 torJey wrote:
If by new meta you mean bronze tactics.
Hey terrans, its your turn to feel the skytoss nonsense. Zergs are dealing with this for ages.

On March 16 2014 01:26 ssbmang wrote:


It's sad to see units from any race unused, or called "bronze tactics". I wish that Battlecruisers and Carriers both returned to competitions.

s0s had masterful use of the carrier because of upgrades and late game timing, that's worth respect - no matter your race.

On March 16 2014 01:33 ssbmang wrote:
C'mon guys, don't hate on the race! Admit that the players are the largest of SO many factors into who wins.

On March 16 2014 01:21 ssbmang wrote:
I'd never thought I'd see this day... game 2 s0s v. jjakji

Artosis talking about how this changes everything! Other casters are all laughing about how NO ONE expected viable Carriers...

Holy 3 Stargate +3 Carrier Fleet...

I welcome this NEW META.

Can't wait to post the VOD!

On March 16 2014 01:30 torJey wrote:


The difference of BC and Carrier is that toss already has a zillion options and having another lategame unit isn't cool.
I wish terrans had t3.

Also simply building a unit isn't smart nor its considered new meta. It just shows that every protoss gas unit has perfect synergy.

On March 16 2014 01:36 GreenFate wrote:


Calm down, this is very situational

On March 16 2014 03:01 neptunusfisk wrote:
He did similar stuff v Innovation in WCS S1 2013 and almost won

On March 16 2014 01:30 torJey wrote:
I wish terrans had t3.

On March 16 2014 03:42 Antylamon wrote:

Uhm, Raven Battlecruiser Viking?

On March 16 2014 03:43 goody153 wrote:

I think he meant a t3 that does not suck vs toss and that is reasonably accessible not the one where you get rolled over easily when trying to build that army. Like toss lategame deathball.

On March 16 2014 03:54 Teoita wrote:
Holy fuck did i miss sos going templar straight into carrier? O.O

On March 16 2014 03:56 Gamlet wrote:

mass fenixes into carriers

On March 16 2014 03:43 goody153 wrote:

I think he meant a t3 that does not suck vs toss and that is reasonably accessible not the one where you get rolled over easily when trying to build that army. Like toss lategame deathball.

On March 16 2014 04:00 lowercase wrote:


Sounds like Jjakji forgot to just walk across the map and kill him.

On March 16 2014 03:56 Gamlet wrote:

mass fenixes into carriers

On March 16 2014 05:15 Lorch wrote:
Glad to see there is a pro that is brave enough to experiment.

On March 16 2014 05:43 neptunusfisk wrote:


This guy did carriers v terran in code S last month


This guy did tempests v BOGUS in WCS s1 finals final game last year (yes, he is the topic of the thread)


It's obviously not on the fly experiments we're talking about here

On March 16 2014 01:26 ssbmang wrote:


It's sad to see units from any race unused, or called "bronze tactics". I wish that Battlecruisers and Carriers both returned to competitions.

s0s had masterful use of the carrier because of upgrades and late game timing, that's worth respect - no matter your race.

On March 16 2014 05:45 Lorch wrote:


I watched both of those games live....
One tempest game and one guy going carrier vs mech does not mean sos doing it now is not a good thing and experimental. No pro with a brain does these builds on the fly obviously, I don't really understand why you think experimental means on the fly...

This guy did carriers v terran in code S last month

On March 16 2014 05:47 JacobShock wrote:
Lol this must be tasteless second TL account. I agree that sOs play in that game was amazing and unique, but come on lets wait and see before we start dick riding the whole "changing the meta". Thats a very big statement

On March 16 2014 06:02 ssbmang wrote:



If you watch the VOD the casters all say as much... all of them have "big statements" such as "No one expected this, I can't believe it, I was wrong about carriers" etc.

I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek with the verbose meta game quote, but it does apply to a broader s0s tactic of throwing curveball builds around. His personal meta of being unpredictable is awesome to watch, like those brilliant mindgames in game1 v. taeja...

On March 16 2014 07:48 Loccstana wrote:
It goes to show how terrible vikings are. They lose to carriers, pheonix, voidrays, tempest, basically any protoss air and ground unit that can fight back.

Edit: I just watched the vod again, there was basically no micro on s0s part during the battle. Every single unit got emped but he attacked move and spammed storms and won. These kind of games are terrible to watch and the fact these "bronze league" tactics are actually viable make me very sad.

On March 16 2014 08:18 aZealot wrote:
God that was a sick game. I had a goofy grin on my face when watching those carriers own all over the map.

sOs is such a smart Starcraft player. (I think herO is a better player, but, after watching that, I hope sOs takes the 100k.)

On March 16 2014 07:15 KingAlphard wrote:
Not sure why is everyone so surprised. Carriers have been proved to be almost unbeatable once massed up in good numbers against terran, every experienced protoss player should know that. The only reason why people don't go for them is their endless building time, however if you are able to survive it's a investment that really pays off. In alter'zim cross it's much easier than in other maps.

The only interesting thing is that he did that as a follow up to phoenix colossus, it's an interesting choice because he already had the upgrades and the tech quite early while doing a safe build and he could transition more easily. However I still think he could do it because of the particular situation he was in that game, it's not a solid style in general.

On March 16 2014 14:05 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Full credit to sOs...never have I seen - or you for that matter - sooo heavy phoenix play against Terran at such a high level of play and the fact that he went Colo, HT and Carrier is just incredible...Jakjji is not a weak Terran - he is a top 10 Terran in the world. No one! I repeat NO ONE...has tried that at that level of competition.

sOs shows why SC2 is a brilliant game...you think you know how to play? you think the game is figured out? you think everything is black and white...no no no...SC2 allows creativity and there are only a few players,,,sOs being one of them that exhibits incredibly imaginative and effective play.

On March 16 2014 17:05 Joedaddy wrote:
so basically all you gotta do is sneak in a couple of hidden expo's and as long as you can mine them out this strategy is GG. seems legit!

On March 16 2014 17:09 RaFox17 wrote:

Don´t forget that sOs also crushed Jjakji in the first fight without carriers and that storm-colossi is quite good no matter what toss air you use with it.

On March 16 2014 14:37 gobbledydook wrote:


The thing is you don't really expect Carriers in a tournament with winner-takes-all $100,000 prize.
And you hardly ever bump into someone doing carriers on GM ladder so it's not surprising jjakji didn't see it coming.

On March 16 2014 16:55 Snake.69 wrote:


Only protoss has that many different viable strategies, all-ins and playstyles.

Try to do random shit with zerg or terran and youll get destroyed.

On March 16 2014 17:21 Snake.69 wrote:

Exactly... Im pretty sure anything with storm, archon, and colosus can destroy marine vikings...

Roach + templar would probably do just as good... queen+ templar would probably work too...

But one thing carrier does tho that is imba as hell.


There is no way in hell a human can do all the following super quickly: Shift target attack every single carriers ( 9 ish of them? so at least 2 seconds dedicated to that). EMP everything, stim the marines and move out of storm with everythng. If the vikings auto attack interceptors u just die, if you target carriers, you cant move out of storm with marines.

No way in hell anyone can do that, protoss just a moves and storm.

Trust me even as zerg, fighting lots of carriers with void rays and canons templars is hard is a bitch... you can cast chain fungals while shift attacking every carriers.


I really want the siege tanks to be able to protect marines better against templars and colosus. It would be so sick if tanks were good with marine marauders against toss, but it cant... Medivacs beeing 2 supply is a huge reasons of that. If you make bunch of siege tanks, have medivacs, then your army is sooo small that you just die to mass zlots and immortals lol.

On March 16 2014 18:20 Sneikku wrote:

Zerg doesnt need nothing else than spores spores spores infestors and hydra or corruptor and vipers. It destroys carriers. You simply can't attack into that.