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NASL end SC2 Operations, ESL to take over WCS AM - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
418 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 21 Next All
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2953 Posts
March 08 2014 13:15 GMT
#301
Well...
Blizzard bought IPL, didn't they? Shouldn't it be possible for those guys to run season 2/3?
And of course there's Red Bull - and Red Bull, generally speaking, seems to like spending money on... everything they possibly can.

I just hope one of those two runs the next seasons. Their tournaments have been the best in the NA scene, imo.
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8230 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 13:21:45
March 08 2014 13:21 GMT
#302
On March 08 2014 21:59 dizzy101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:
Except all those people watching WCS, MLG, redbull and shoutcraft. But beyond them, you're 100% correct.


You're forgetting that a game cannot thrive if people only watch it. You need people who play it.

The problem with SC2 since its inception has been a meagre playerbase. Simple as that.

You need a huge playerbase BEFORE you can have a healthy pro-scene. Think of it as a pyramid with, at the base, the casuals and at the top, the pros.

SC2 just doesn't draw casual players in, the way LoL and Dota 2 do.



When you have more people watching RuneScape than SC2 at any given time, you know there's a problem. Blizzard had this coming due to the design of the game. Heck there's even more Diablo than SC2 viewers right now at the time of this post!
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
March 08 2014 13:25 GMT
#303
On March 08 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 21:40 Squat wrote:
On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.

I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.

No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes.

Blizzard isn't trying to monopolize anything, the problem is that no one wants their product.

Except all those people watching WCS, MLG, redbull and shoutcraft. But beyond them, you're 100% correct.

Stop being silly, they are spectators, not organizers. Yes people like watching the game, just not enough to be profitable, which means very few tournaments have much incentive to promote the game. No one is making money off of this game.

There is a reason why every single major tournament in NA has dropped SC2 or folded altogether, MG excepted. WCS NA is a pitfall, they had to foist it off on ESL to even have anyone to run it at all.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
Rasias
Profile Joined November 2013
Germany51 Posts
March 08 2014 13:26 GMT
#304
On March 08 2014 22:21 geokilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 21:59 dizzy101 wrote:
On March 08 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:
Except all those people watching WCS, MLG, redbull and shoutcraft. But beyond them, you're 100% correct.


You're forgetting that a game cannot thrive if people only watch it. You need people who play it.

The problem with SC2 since its inception has been a meagre playerbase. Simple as that.

You need a huge playerbase BEFORE you can have a healthy pro-scene. Think of it as a pyramid with, at the base, the casuals and at the top, the pros.

SC2 just doesn't draw casual players in, the way LoL and Dota 2 do.



When you have more people watching RuneScape than SC2 at any given time, you know there's a problem. Blizzard had this coming due to the design of the game. Heck there's even more Diablo than SC2 viewers right now at the time of this post!

I would guess that a lot of the seatstorycup viewers are currently watching hearthstone, as it's on the same stream as sc2 and many are interested in both.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 08 2014 13:30 GMT
#305
Man it's been over a month since we had a good "dead game" discussion and hate on Blizzard circle jerk. Good to see we still have the ability to go back to our roots.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
March 08 2014 13:31 GMT
#306
On March 08 2014 22:30 Plansix wrote:
Man it's been over a month since we had a good "dead game" discussion and hate on Blizzard circle jerk. Good to see we still have the ability to go back to our roots.

I envy you, must be so easy to dismiss anything you don't like as whining and "lol ded game". Have fun the echo chamber. Your sig is hilariously ironic.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16694 Posts
March 08 2014 13:36 GMT
#307
On March 08 2014 22:30 Plansix wrote:
Man it's been over a month since we had a good "dead game" discussion and hate on Blizzard circle jerk. Good to see we still have the ability to go back to our roots.


you don't need to tie the 2 issues together.
you can love Blizzard and also see with an objective perspective that the SC2 esports viewer base and player-base is in decline.

Blizzard has done a great job with SC2 and they provide the best support of any RTS game maker.
I'm happy with Blizzard. Over the past 3 years SC2's popularity has declined.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 13:37:58
March 08 2014 13:36 GMT
#308
On March 08 2014 22:31 Squat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 22:30 Plansix wrote:
Man it's been over a month since we had a good "dead game" discussion and hate on Blizzard circle jerk. Good to see we still have the ability to go back to our roots.

I envy you, must be so easy to dismiss anything you don't like as whining and "lol ded game". Have fun the echo chamber. Your sig is hilariously ironic.

Hey, I'm just glad we get to see you guys agai . We haven't seen you for a month or so. Something might have hapeened.

Much like Peter Pan and hook, where would Starcraft be without the people claiming is was dying every time we got bad news. It just wouldn't be the same.

Edit: you do know my sig is scarcastic, right?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
March 08 2014 13:51 GMT
#309
On March 08 2014 22:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 22:31 Squat wrote:
On March 08 2014 22:30 Plansix wrote:
Man it's been over a month since we had a good "dead game" discussion and hate on Blizzard circle jerk. Good to see we still have the ability to go back to our roots.

I envy you, must be so easy to dismiss anything you don't like as whining and "lol ded game". Have fun the echo chamber. Your sig is hilariously ironic.

Hey, I'm just glad we get to see you guys agai . We haven't seen you for a month or so. Something might have hapeened.

Much like Peter Pan and hook, where would Starcraft be without the people claiming is was dying every time we got bad news. It just wouldn't be the same.

Edit: you do know my sig is scarcastic, right?

Your sig is ironic because you've bought into the whole notion of there being a bunch of people who seriously think the game is dead. You are just regurgitating a meme.

The game is not dead, or dying, but it sure as shit is not healthy. Anyone who is not delusional can see that. Sponsors and tournaments want no part of WCS NA, those are just the facts. How we interpret them is up to us.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
March 08 2014 13:55 GMT
#310
On March 08 2014 22:15 Swisslink wrote:
Well...
Blizzard bought IPL, didn't they? Shouldn't it be possible for those guys to run season 2/3?
And of course there's Red Bull - and Red Bull, generally speaking, seems to like spending money on... everything they possibly can.

I just hope one of those two runs the next seasons. Their tournaments have been the best in the NA scene, imo.

No, they just hired the former staff of IPL.
Off-season = best season
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 14:01:20
March 08 2014 13:58 GMT
#311
SC 2 has always been driven by popular non Koreans. Stephano was like a mythical god-like creature until he went to pro league, where it became evident he would be "just another guy" if he were Korean. Not every tournament should be filled with Koreans, reminding fans that there is no hope and your perception is somewhat of a mirage.

Idra was what, a top 20 player in the US? Yet, he had to essentially retire because he couldn't qualify for any tournaments? In what profession/scene can you say "I'm a top player in my country (a big one)" but I had to retire because there was no hope? You're excluding one of SC 2's biggest draws so fans can see the likes of "theSTC." It's crazy, whether fair or not.

WCS loves to talk about story lines, but the only storyline I've seen built since the new system is "stay tuned to find out who retires next." That's the only story I'm really aware of atm.

You have to bring relevancy back to saying you're one of the best in your country. Players like incontrol are bad in the grand scheme of things, just like 99.99% of non Koreans. It's splitting hairs when coming up with different tiers for most non Koreans in comparison to Koreans. But, if being one of the best in the Americas had any relevance at all, Incontrol would probably qualify for every tournament, instead of relying on a catz friend list tournament.

I just think it's crazy to know the biggest draws in SC 2, yet have so few of the popular players in the US have a shot at qualifying, when they're good players relative to other Americans...

I'd like to see Nony be able to qualify for tournaments. If I have to wait for nony to be good, relative to Koreans, before he can qualify, then I wouldn't blame him or anyone for retiring before the fact. There's hardly anyone left for non Koreans to root for, because "their players" can't play in any tournaments to begin with..

Luisa_2
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany200 Posts
March 08 2014 14:03 GMT
#312
damn, thats rough. So are they always gonna travel to Germany now?
"Tasteless,why did the Colossus fall over?" "Why?" " Because it was imbalanced"
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
March 08 2014 14:14 GMT
#313
Man I still vividly remember iNcontrol's announcement of announcement...and how he was subsequently hunted down for overhyping...and the whole "should NASL invite Koreans or not" debate, and the video that they made applying players make about themselves. Fun memories
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
horvaa
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden80 Posts
March 08 2014 14:18 GMT
#314
Ded gaem
Rip nasl. Actually it was my favorite league /cast studio. All those rotti /mrbitter moments
Fanboy of Naniwa, Morrow, Grubby, Bitterdam, Day9, Loda, AdmiralBulldog
grs
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany2339 Posts
March 08 2014 14:25 GMT
#315
Wow, all I can say it gratz to Ralf "SK-Griff" Reichert. You came a long way from running a small QW clan!
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
March 08 2014 14:30 GMT
#316
On March 08 2014 19:35 Firestorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 12:10 Caladan wrote:
On March 08 2014 11:55 Snake.69 wrote:
WCS is falling apart... Korea wants *GSL CODE S* back, so its not really WCS korea anymore. Wcs america is in europe with mostly korean players... so its not really WCS america anymore..

ANd WCS europe cant be WCS europe if its the only region where theres a WCS.


You're partly right, the situation right now is a bit sketchy, but I hope Blizz will find a new organization in NA that can run future seasons of WCS NA.
On the identity problem with Huk being the only American player in WCS NA... well, we never mentioned region lock, did we?


So its the Koreans fault that the NA players suck?

If WCS NA can't survive with viewers watching Koreans then how on earth could they survive with no one watching the NA players?


I don't know if viewer ship even goes into the equation or if NASL went bust simply because they had no idea what they were doing, but I can tell you right away that I would never watch WCS EU if there would be 1-2 Europeans among the top 16 in WCS EU. I think this discussion has been around more than once now, the region lock that was enforced meant little to nothing except for the qualifiers for EU, which provided an excellent opportunity for us in EU to watch entertaining matches on 11 different channels or so, covering fan favorites in probably 7-8 languages. The new challenger league system I find extremely poor, and has resulted in just a few glimpses of many other fan favorites that only got to show what they can in one Bo5, which was their whole season (if they lost). That being said, in the end we have the same number of Koreans in PL in EU since most of them didn't have to lift a finger to stay there.

Contrary to WCS EU, the production of WCS AM qualifiers was probably the biggest fail in a long time, borderline entertaining in its own sadness and misery. It was supposed to be the moment where Americans by and large would be able to get a spot in the sunshine and get some hype. Of course, none of that happened thanks to NASL who couldn't handle the show at all. In the end I suppose the new soft region lock meant for WCS AM that more non-Korean Asian got into in WSC AM. In my opinion, this is exactly how not to build the American scene, from Chile/Uruguay to Canada. Blizzard, time to wake up.


Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8230 Posts
March 08 2014 14:34 GMT
#317
On March 08 2014 22:30 Plansix wrote:
Man it's been over a month since we had a good "dead game" discussion and hate on Blizzard circle jerk. Good to see we still have the ability to go back to our roots.

When did I say it's a dead game? Or were you not targeting me?
klipik12
Profile Joined March 2012
United States241 Posts
March 08 2014 14:59 GMT
#318
inb4 Riot buys the rights to WCS NA and owns 2/3 of the biggest eSports in the world.

User was warned for this post
<(^_^)> || Axiom - CoL - mYi - Prime - ROOT - EG - Acer || WCS Teamleague pls ;-;
Firestorm
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Canada341 Posts
March 08 2014 15:06 GMT
#319
On March 08 2014 23:30 BaneRiders wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 19:35 Firestorm wrote:
On March 08 2014 12:10 Caladan wrote:
On March 08 2014 11:55 Snake.69 wrote:
WCS is falling apart... Korea wants *GSL CODE S* back, so its not really WCS korea anymore. Wcs america is in europe with mostly korean players... so its not really WCS america anymore..

ANd WCS europe cant be WCS europe if its the only region where theres a WCS.


You're partly right, the situation right now is a bit sketchy, but I hope Blizz will find a new organization in NA that can run future seasons of WCS NA.
On the identity problem with Huk being the only American player in WCS NA... well, we never mentioned region lock, did we?


So its the Koreans fault that the NA players suck?

If WCS NA can't survive with viewers watching Koreans then how on earth could they survive with no one watching the NA players?


I don't know if viewer ship even goes into the equation or if NASL went bust simply because they had no idea what they were doing, but I can tell you right away that I would never watch WCS EU if there would be 1-2 Europeans among the top 16 in WCS EU. I think this discussion has been around more than once now, the region lock that was enforced meant little to nothing except for the qualifiers for EU, which provided an excellent opportunity for us in EU to watch entertaining matches on 11 different channels or so, covering fan favorites in probably 7-8 languages. The new challenger league system I find extremely poor, and has resulted in just a few glimpses of many other fan favorites that only got to show what they can in one Bo5, which was their whole season (if they lost). That being said, in the end we have the same number of Koreans in PL in EU since most of them didn't have to lift a finger to stay there.

Contrary to WCS EU, the production of WCS AM qualifiers was probably the biggest fail in a long time, borderline entertaining in its own sadness and misery. It was supposed to be the moment where Americans by and large would be able to get a spot in the sunshine and get some hype. Of course, none of that happened thanks to NASL who couldn't handle the show at all. In the end I suppose the new soft region lock meant for WCS AM that more non-Korean Asian got into in WSC AM. In my opinion, this is exactly how not to build the American scene, from Chile/Uruguay to Canada. Blizzard, time to wake up.




How can you build a scene if no one wants to watch that scene and is extremely unprofitable? WCS NA is not a charity and Blizzard does not have bottomless funds. They are a business.
"Revenge is sweet... Revenge is a dish best served cold... Revenge is... Ice Cream!"
GohgamX
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada1096 Posts
March 08 2014 15:26 GMT
#320
It's been great, and with each failure spawns new opportunity. I have faith the NA scene will continue to grow despite this result.
Time is a great teacher, unfortunate that it kills all its pupils ...
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