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On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes.
thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right.
In WCS players and teams still have sovereignty over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS.
Well it is sad to see WCS AM not doing so good but it is like it is. Maybe ESL can set up a studio in the US.
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On March 08 2014 19:49 crow_mw wrote:
Up to date NASL league (before wcs) is the best sc2 show ever broadcasted.
What? Were you around for IPL? Iron Squid? Red Bull?
Since its creation NASL always had the shadow hanging over it of being an amateurish organisation aiming higher than they realistically should have. The way they just quit the SC2 scene seems to confirm this.
No flowers.
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On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS.
The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot.
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On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot.
I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor.
Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc.
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Production quality is bound to go up so I'm not all that sad.
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Part of me wonders how much of this situation was created when Blizzard handed WCS NA over to MLG in the first place.
Yes, MLG is great at live events, but they clearly were not prepared for the weekly casts that were going to be required of them for WCS. NASL started with the weekly casts and built up from there. And were more well equipped at the time to handle Blizzards vision imo.
It really saddens me to see another promoter / broadcaster leaving a game that still has such a large draw.
I just don't know about this anymore... Perhaps we all need to take a step back and look out our hobby as a whole.
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On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc.
I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one.
They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers.
There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either.
Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes.
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all dat ESL money.
Share a bit with dh would you !
Anyways that's a good news to me, NASL was very bad and they did not do anything beside WCS, at least ESL got IEM and some online cups / teamleagues, i'd rather give them some money.
Still a bit weird that DH didn't jump on that, i mean they wanted to tap into the american market, this was golden opportunity.
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On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes.
1 ~ there's no such thing as a good monopoly.
2 ~ there's more competition now amongst the players than before. (looking at you scarlett, nani, tlo, state, minigun... all of whom can compete well with the best in the world)
3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch.
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On March 08 2014 20:34 shid0x wrote:
all dat ESL money.
Share a bit with dh would you !
Anyways that's a good news to me, NASL was very bad and they did not do anything beside WCS, at least ESL got IEM and some online cups / teamleagues, i'd rather give them some money.
Still a bit weird that DH didn't jump on that, i mean they wanted to tap into the american market, this was golden opportunity.
Well DH is about huge events and less about daily production
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On March 08 2014 20:34 shid0x wrote:
all dat ESL money.
Share a bit with dh would you !
Anyways that's a good news to me, NASL was very bad and they did not do anything beside WCS, at least ESL got IEM and some online cups / teamleagues, i'd rather give them some money.
Still a bit weird that DH didn't jump on that, i mean they wanted to tap into the american market, this was golden opportunity.
what a silly comment. My guess goes more like this: NASL couldn`t do it anymore, which meant huge trouble for WCS America. ESL steps in to help - not to draw extra profit out of this shitty situation. Have you even asked DH if they wanted to cover WCS America? It`s not like WCS America is a huge cashcow or anything. Remember MLG that stoped doing it because it was not profitable.
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On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes. 3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch.
Well you're forgetting the rule that no tournaments of reasonable size can be played at the same time as WCS is on. It hurt NASL very much. They couldn't produce content for quite some months
GSL got a lot worse as well.
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On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:
1 ~ there's no such thing as a good monopoly.
2 ~ there's more competition now amongst the players than before. (looking at you scarlett, nani, tlo, state, minigun... all of whom can compete well with the best in the world)
3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch.
I strongly disagree this, this is the main reason that other tourneys are worse ("killing them, WCS needs more value/respect than now"). We need a lot more indepedency and exclusiveness, this has missed since sc2 release.
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On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes. 1 ~ there's no such thing as a good monopoly. 2 ~ there's more competition now amongst the players than before. (looking at you scarlett, nani, tlo, state, minigun... all of whom can compete well with the best in the world) 3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch.
You really believe WCS has had a positive impact on players' skill level? No one is a bigger minigun fan boy than me, but to my knowledge he hasn't even played on the Korean ladder and is just now starting to play on EU. Talented players with a chance to win something are going to be able to compete with the best in the world, regardless. To raise the general skill level, you have to give more players than just 5 a realistic chance to win something.
In the long run, what improves the skill level is getting new blood into your game and giving people a reason to practice enough to realize w/e potential they might have. There is no way in hell the new WCS system has done anything like that. With this WCS system, I probably wouldn't have gotten SC 2.
Even from a viewer standpoint/curiosity standpoint. I'd much rather know who is the best player in the Americas than have thestc knocking out maybe the best one in the round of 32 and making it a tournament where I can't gleam jack.
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On March 08 2014 20:41 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes. 3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch. Well you're forgetting the rule that no tournaments of reasonable size can be played at the same time as WCS is on. It hurt NASL very much.
Didn't forget. It makes sense. You don't see the PGA scheduling a two major tourneys against each other. Or FIFA allowing any major international soccer tourney to be scheduled against the world cup.
We keep wanting esports to be taken seriously.... when are we as the fans going to take it seriously?
it's not going to be DH tomorrow during the day, then Shoutcraft that same afternoon, followed up by GSL that evening with Proleague capping it off. and to think that such scheduling is a good idea is bad.
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On March 08 2014 20:47 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes. 1 ~ there's no such thing as a good monopoly. 2 ~ there's more competition now amongst the players than before. (looking at you scarlett, nani, tlo, state, minigun... all of whom can compete well with the best in the world) 3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch. You really believe WCS has had a positive impact on players' skill level? No one is a bigger minigun fan boy than me, but to my knowledge he hasn't even played on the Korean ladder and is just now starting to play on EU. Talented players with a chance to win something are going to be able to compete with the best in the world, regardless. To raise the general skill level, you have to give more players than just 5 a realistic chance to win something. In the long run, what improves the skill level is getting new blood into your game and giving people a reason to practice enough to realize w/e potential they might have. There is no way in hell the new WCS system has done anything like that. With this WCS system, I probably wouldn't have gotten SC 2. Even from a viewer standpoint/curiosity standpoint. I'd much rather know who is the best player in the Americas than have thestc knocking out maybe the best one in the round of 32 and making it a tournament where I can't gleam jack.
So people are too lazy to learn about the Korean players and see what their personality is?
Fun fact: The NA scene is smaller than what most people actually think it is. If the viewership of WCS NA (with top Koreans) isn't profitable enough to survive, than how would have region locked WCS NA survived with no top Koreans and second and third tier NA players?
Think about it.
Sometimes it's not Blizzard's fault. It's ours.
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On March 08 2014 20:49 Firestorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:47 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes. 1 ~ there's no such thing as a good monopoly. 2 ~ there's more competition now amongst the players than before. (looking at you scarlett, nani, tlo, state, minigun... all of whom can compete well with the best in the world) 3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch. You really believe WCS has had a positive impact on players' skill level? No one is a bigger minigun fan boy than me, but to my knowledge he hasn't even played on the Korean ladder and is just now starting to play on EU. Talented players with a chance to win something are going to be able to compete with the best in the world, regardless. To raise the general skill level, you have to give more players than just 5 a realistic chance to win something. In the long run, what improves the skill level is getting new blood into your game and giving people a reason to practice enough to realize w/e potential they might have. There is no way in hell the new WCS system has done anything like that. With this WCS system, I probably wouldn't have gotten SC 2. Even from a viewer standpoint/curiosity standpoint. I'd much rather know who is the best player in the Americas than have thestc knocking out maybe the best one in the round of 32 and making it a tournament where I can't gleam jack. So people are too lazy to learn about the Korean players and see what their personality is?
I have no interest in dating thestc or any male players. I don't care about this "personality" thing. Personality is often confused with extroversion, anyways, and I'd probably dislike him if he came across as having a great one. I know enough about thestc to know he wouldn't be in WCS if enough of the best Koreans tried to be in WCS America, but he is still probably good enough to beat the best American player. It could go either way, probably.
This tournament may as well be show matches with jaedoing and tajea versus other players, as no one cares about anything else in this tournament. At least I don't. So little is proved and it's such a step down from the previous version. I wouldn't be surprised if the next person to pull out is Blizzard. Just scrap NA.
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NA SC2 scene has been a joke from the start, its about time this happened, they have the most vocal players with the lowest skill.So heres hoping Blizzard wakes up and kills the WCS NA dead before it drags down the other 2 with its financial costs.
Theres no shame in it. America is simply not that interested in RTS games when you get right down to it
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I don't know how Blizzard predicts or prepares for NASL randomly shutting their doors mid season when some of their own staff didn't know it was comming.
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On March 08 2014 20:47 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 20:37 nihilluz wrote:On March 08 2014 20:27 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:20 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 20:15 playa wrote:On March 08 2014 20:10 arkedos wrote:On March 08 2014 19:37 playa wrote:
It's terrible what has happened with this game. When I got SC 2, WCS was a big reason why I wanted to play. It seemed great. And, besides WCS, there were a million tournaments. Too many! Now? There's next to nothing besides WCS, and WCS isn't worth playing now, besides for a handful of non Koreans, and the tournaments have been run in a way that would have even disgusted WCG admins.
I don't know why Blizzard doesn't get criticized for trying to monopolize the game, when the game has gone nothing but downhill since they have upped their strangle hold on how tournaments are to be run and rules regarding everything. If Blizzard is going to set all the rules and be the only tournament going, then I just wish the billion dollar company would go all the way and run it themselves, instead of delegating it to companies that are struggling to stay afloat.
No one wants to watch thestc in WCS America. Some of these groups in WCS America are so horrible and help no scenes. thats not the case. You can replace SC2 with LoL in this text and blizzard with RIOT then you got it right. In WCS players and teams have sovereignity over their actions. In LoL everything is controlled by riot, the players are contracted and paid by RIOT. RIOT really killed any kind of competition besides LCS. The only difference I see here is riot is actually taking care of the players, where as Blizzard is a billion dollar company more concerned about using their leverage to take care of themselves some more. But, without players or a reason to play... you kinda lose your foundation. If the game is to be controlled, it's a shame it's not Riot. I don't think so. I would not be surprised if the results in LCS are fixed to contribute to the show factor. Well no guarantee that this is not the case in SC2 but everything controlled by one single entity is never a good thing. As you can see when RIOT tried to forbid the players to stream any game that is competing with LoL, like SC2 or DotA2 etc. I do believe there are rules against monopolies for good reasons. I don't disagree. I'm simply saying, I believe some monopolies are better than others... You can't just make it to where you're the only tournament going, but tell the players to suck a fat one. They talk about the need to make the player scene competitive and trying to raise skill level of NA players, etc, and at the same time, they make it to where there are no repercussions for running the shittiest tournaments of all time, since they make the rules and can do w/e. It's hypocrisy. They made it to where to be a top tier WCS tournament you have to have "x" amount in prize money. It's price fixing, as tournaments realize there is no need to spend a penny more than w/e is required to meet certain tiers. There's no competition anymore. It's just WCS all day, every day. The competition now is to see who can run WCS. That apparently doesn't seem to be a worthy game to be involved in, either. Just look at what has happened since this new WCS tournament system has been announced. They need to show some humility and make real changes. 1 ~ there's no such thing as a good monopoly. 2 ~ there's more competition now amongst the players than before. (looking at you scarlett, nani, tlo, state, minigun... all of whom can compete well with the best in the world) 3 ~ Dreamhack, IEM, HSC, ShoutCraft, Redbull training grounds... There are plenty of consistent tourneys going on. The point of Blizzard laying down ground rules for them all was to create a stage where your year long run of tourneys culminated with the world finals at BlizzCon. If anything, WCS made these other tourneys that offer wcs points more relevant to watch. You really believe WCS has had a positive impact on players' skill level? No one is a bigger minigun fan boy than me, but to my knowledge he hasn't even played on the Korean ladder and is just now starting to play on EU. Talented players with a chance to win something are going to be able to compete with the best in the world, regardless. To raise the general skill level, you have to give more players than just 5 a realistic chance to win something. In the long run, what improves the skill level is getting new blood into your game and giving people a reason to practice enough to realize w/e potential they might have. There is no way in hell the new WCS system has done anything like that. With this WCS system, I probably wouldn't have gotten SC 2. Even from a viewer standpoint/curiosity standpoint. I'd much rather know who is the best player in the Americas than have thestc knocking out maybe the best one in the round of 32 and making it a tournament where I can't gleam jack.
You're complaint was about a lack of competition, now you're complaining that WCS has somehow lowered the skill level of na players? Look at naniwa. Look at Scarlett. Look at Major. Look at huk, state, idra. What have all these players, and naniwa being the only european mentioned (don't forget Snute) done? they went and lived and played in Korea. They spent a long time training and competing against the best. you want to raise the skill level in na? don't blame wcs, or look to it as some bandaid to fix it. WCS was supposed to put EVERYONE on the same playing field to compete, not to put everyone at the same skill level.
And if you really wanted to know who was the better American player... again, I'll refer you to Shoutcraft. TB does that tourney. It does exist.
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EPT
