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On January 28 2014 09:33 goofyballer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:30 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:23 Fjodorov wrote:On January 28 2014 09:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:05 goofyballer wrote:
There's so much derp in this thread of people being like "wow everyone's so ungrateful." It echoes Sundance's retarded tweet however long ago when he said "if you give $5 to esports fans they'll yell at you for not giving them $10". It ignores the valid arguments people are making about how difficult it is to make a living SC2 and how this tournament is exacerbating the problem instead of helping it.
San is one of the players qualified for this tournament; he has lifetime winnings of $34,945 dating back to October 2010, according to sc2earnings.com. So in his 40 months of being a pro gamer, and a full-fledged adult now at the age of 21, he's earned an average of $10,483.50 per year; in other words, below the poverty line in the USA. I'm sure he's ecstatic that IEM is giving him a chance to win $100,000 (he won't) with a 93.75% chance of him walking home empty-handed (assuming all players have an equal chance, which they don't) when a team house and whatever meager salary/sponsorships he earn are the only things keeping him from being goddamn homeless.
Even MC, the winningest player in SC2 history, has earned $130,000 per year w/o sponsorships+team salary. That's a solid living, sure, but consider that the most successful player ever to play StarCraft 2 barely makes more money from tournaments than your average Google software engineer. When you consider that the vast majority of SC2 players make a small fraction of MC's winnings, why on earth would anyone who has a chance at a good career give that up to make esports poverty money? I'm a software engineer and there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever leave this career to play StarCraft, even if I was one of the best players in the world.
So when tournaments like this come along, promising to make one lucky player rich (well, "esports rich", it's just $100k) while 15 players go home with nothing and have ramen for dinner, think about why there aren't more people that could potentially be the next MC or MVP or Naniwa rushing to join the SC2 community and go pro and entertain us with amazing games. I missed the part where it's IEM's responsibility to provide a standard of living for Starcraft professional players. They're a tournament and this prize pool structure is there to generate hype for the tournament because people love watching things played for high stakes whether it's Poker, Sports or E-Sports. IEM isn't in business to cater to the needs of every professional Starcraft 2 player, they are in the tournament running business and their goal in that venture is to make money which relies heavily on hype to generate viewers. I get the plight of the Starcraft professional, really I get it, but the burden isn't on tournaments to provide equal pay out to everyone. What you should be clamoring for is more sustained income for players through sponsorships, you should be campaigning for viewers to turn off adblock, or buying merchandise. Going after the tournaments on this basis doesn't help anything. If the tournaments can't make money, then they shut down and EVERYONE loses. So get it through your head, this move by IEM is a MARKETING STRATEGY. Accept that it isn't meant to be beneficial to the players, it's meant to generate buzz. It's also only ONE fucking tournament, it isn't like IEM is changing EVERY tournament to function this way. I really don't understand why everyone is overreacting towards this. But the players provide value for the tournament. People tune in to see the players. The tournament and the players use eachother and need eachother. Thats why it can be seen as a problem when a bunch of players showing up to IEM with their value as players/teams and their fanbases in the back, generating business for IEM, and all the players dont get ANYTHING for it. Ok so if the players are so against this format they'll boycott it and IEM will lose viewers.
But we know that's not going to happen. Plenty of top players are going to show up because they'd be stupid to pass up a chance at 100,000 dollars.The prize pool is the only obligation the tournament has. People will show up to a 100 grand tournament, IEM is already going a step further than they actually NEED to by providing lodging and travel expenses. The players are going to come. Sounds like you also need to read up on collective bargaining and how things generally go when large organizations negotiate with disjointed individuals. If you think that desperate players showing up to an event that might pay them money to live on (but probably won't) instead of boycotting is an implicit endorsement of its structure and a good thing, then, uh...wow.
This is just ONE tournament in an entire freaking YEAR of Starcraft.
Explain to me, please explain to me why it is OBLIGATED to set its pay structure in any way.
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You guys do realize how much hype IEM has gotten already, only a couple of hours after their announcement? ^^
I think everyone whining about their decision is playing right into their hands. This is like already the most talked about tournament for like years.
Well played IEM, well played.
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On January 28 2014 09:36 sd_andeh wrote:
You guys do realize how much hype IEM has gotten already, only a couple of hours after their announcement? ^^
I think everyone whining about their decision is playing right into their hands. This is like already the most talked about tournament for like years.
Well played IEM, well played.
That's a huge exaggeration, this thread only has 26000 views. Even the GSL Code S players announcement which is just reading results off of Liquipedia has more at this point.
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On January 28 2014 09:16 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:15 Vindicare605 wrote:
Going after the tournaments on this basis doesn't help anything. If the tournaments can't make money, then they shut down and EVERYONE loses. So get it through your head, this move by IEM is a MARKETING STRATEGY. Accept that it isn't meant to be beneficial to the players, it's meant to generate buzz.
maybe he understands that and just doesn't think it's a good thing? calling people stupid is not a great way to argue.
Even if you exclude this prize money, ESL has managed to pour so much money into the scene, what is bad with using some money for a really controversial format to generate more excitement, more viewers and to attract more sponsors?
Sure, it sucks hard for the players participating, but it is also a big chance. Also, the majority of the players participating already did - compared to other progamers - exceedingly well financially in the last year (well, maybe except San), that is how they qualified for this in the first place. Of course, it still is outright horrible compared to a qualified job if you consider their whole career, maybe even just last year. But that is because it is outright horrible for everybody in the scene.
The cake is simply not big enough. Now, it is only natural for people to ask that the cake be distributed evenly amongst the top performing players, but that does not solve the root of the problem which is that the cake is not big enough. And ESL is simply trying a new recipe to make the cake bigger. Maybe it works, maybe it won't, but it is worth a try in my opinion.
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On January 28 2014 09:37 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:36 sd_andeh wrote:
You guys do realize how much hype IEM has gotten already, only a couple of hours after their announcement? ^^
I think everyone whining about their decision is playing right into their hands. This is like already the most talked about tournament for like years.
Well played IEM, well played. That's a huge exaggeration, this thread only has 26000 views. Even the GSL Code S players announcement which is just reading results off of Liquipedia has more at this point.
Well, considering this thread has been alive for... how many hours? Oh well, you get my point :-)
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On January 28 2014 09:25 UberNuB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:05 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 28 2014 08:53 UberNuB wrote:
We have enough mid-tier players, if tournaments like these force them out of the game, then I don't see how that could be a bad thing.
No need for 200+ "pro" gamers in one game. Technically, tournaments like these are hurting the top players, not the mid tier ones. It's supposed to be a tournament for the top 16 in the world, after all. And I doubt there are even 200+ pros in the first place. Maybe not even 100. Think about the fact there were 3 WCS regions last year, each with more than 50 players (between challenger/premier). That alone is 150 players, plus there are a ton of Kespa players not in GSL/WCS. I would image there is somewhere around 300-400 players trying to make it as pro-gamers (most full time players). That is just far too many for a game that only gets around 20,000 - 30,000 stream viewers on premiere tournaments outside of finals. That means roughly 1% of the active eSports community are trying to play this game professionally. While it would probably get stale, I would actually enjoy it if we only have 30-50 players total. There would be so much better story lines. We wouldn't have cases where all the crowd favorites are knocked out in Ro16 and some "unknown" wins -- i.e. basically every tournament last year.
Yeah, guess my numbers were slightly off. I was mostly looking at SC2 Earnings, and in the top 200 earners of all time there's a ton of retired players. It also doesn't take long to get to total earnings that aren't extremely trivial.
Honestly, you're never going to see only 30-50 players total, because the money for anyone below the top 50 is already pathetic. If the current situation isn't enough to clear them out, there isn't much that will.
On January 28 2014 09:25 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:24 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 28 2014 09:22 Cheren wrote:On January 28 2014 09:18 Darkhoarse wrote:On January 28 2014 09:17 agsub wrote:
Too much drama and assumptions regarding players splitting the final prize. Imagine Taeja vs Life finals, will Taeja or Life ever want to split the prize pool? They are skilled enough to win it all, why risk their reputation in case they got found out? (the community never forgives match fixers).
I think this is a great idea for a one time yearly event. Good job IEM Splitting prize money isn't match fixing. Once you win the money it is yours and you can do whatever you want with it, including give it to a friend. That's not always how it works in the real world, 2 LoL teams agreed to split the prize for 1st place at an MLG and were forced to give up their titles and money after getting caught. http://lol.gamepedia.com/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Summer/Championship They also derped around in the finals and didn't even try. IIRC, they played every game 5v5 mid only. I'm sure prize splitting has happened multiple times in the past without anyone knowing, the difference is the players still play to win...they just don't play with money on the line. Nope, only the first game. They were both playing to win after that, just not for money, exactly the way you describe. Anyway I'm just saying you can't always "give money to a friend" if the friend is the player or team you beat. It all depends on the rules of the tournament.
Okay, they "only" derped around for one game...that's enough to disqualify you on the spot. Doesn't matter what the rest of the games looked like.
And yes, prize slitting is still a grey area, but a $100k Winner-takes-all situation is one that forces players to risk the consequences. $50,000 alone puts you in the Top 50 earners of all time, and is basically enough to justify playing SC2 for two whole years.
Not to mention that public opinion would probably side on the players and not IEM.
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On January 28 2014 09:30 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:23 Fjodorov wrote:On January 28 2014 09:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:05 goofyballer wrote:
There's so much derp in this thread of people being like "wow everyone's so ungrateful." It echoes Sundance's retarded tweet however long ago when he said "if you give $5 to esports fans they'll yell at you for not giving them $10". It ignores the valid arguments people are making about how difficult it is to make a living SC2 and how this tournament is exacerbating the problem instead of helping it.
San is one of the players qualified for this tournament; he has lifetime winnings of $34,945 dating back to October 2010, according to sc2earnings.com. So in his 40 months of being a pro gamer, and a full-fledged adult now at the age of 21, he's earned an average of $10,483.50 per year; in other words, below the poverty line in the USA. I'm sure he's ecstatic that IEM is giving him a chance to win $100,000 (he won't) with a 93.75% chance of him walking home empty-handed (assuming all players have an equal chance, which they don't) when a team house and whatever meager salary/sponsorships he earn are the only things keeping him from being goddamn homeless.
Even MC, the winningest player in SC2 history, has earned $130,000 per year w/o sponsorships+team salary. That's a solid living, sure, but consider that the most successful player ever to play StarCraft 2 barely makes more money from tournaments than your average Google software engineer. When you consider that the vast majority of SC2 players make a small fraction of MC's winnings, why on earth would anyone who has a chance at a good career give that up to make esports poverty money? I'm a software engineer and there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever leave this career to play StarCraft, even if I was one of the best players in the world.
So when tournaments like this come along, promising to make one lucky player rich (well, "esports rich", it's just $100k) while 15 players go home with nothing and have ramen for dinner, think about why there aren't more people that could potentially be the next MC or MVP or Naniwa rushing to join the SC2 community and go pro and entertain us with amazing games. I missed the part where it's IEM's responsibility to provide a standard of living for Starcraft professional players. They're a tournament and this prize pool structure is there to generate hype for the tournament because people love watching things played for high stakes whether it's Poker, Sports or E-Sports. IEM isn't in business to cater to the needs of every professional Starcraft 2 player, they are in the tournament running business and their goal in that venture is to make money which relies heavily on hype to generate viewers. I get the plight of the Starcraft professional, really I get it, but the burden isn't on tournaments to provide equal pay out to everyone. What you should be clamoring for is more sustained income for players through sponsorships, you should be campaigning for viewers to turn off adblock, or buying merchandise. Going after the tournaments on this basis doesn't help anything. If the tournaments can't make money, then they shut down and EVERYONE loses. So get it through your head, this move by IEM is a MARKETING STRATEGY. Accept that it isn't meant to be beneficial to the players, it's meant to generate buzz. It's also only ONE fucking tournament, it isn't like IEM is changing EVERY tournament to function this way. I really don't understand why everyone is overreacting towards this. But the players provide value for the tournament. People tune in to see the players. The tournament and the players use eachother and need eachother. Thats why it can be seen as a problem when a bunch of players showing up to IEM with their value as players/teams and their fanbases in the back, generating business for IEM, and all the players dont get ANYTHING for it. Ok so if the players are so against this format they'll boycott it and IEM will lose viewers. But we know that's not going to happen. Plenty of top players are going to show up because they'd be stupid to pass up a chance at 100,000 dollars. The prize pool is the only obligation the tournament has. People will show up to a 100 grand tournament, IEM is already going a step further than they actually NEED to by providing lodging and travel expenses. The players are going to come.
The organizer is one entity but the players are lots and lots of individuals. Thats why unions exist in the real world, to even out the playing field a little so the workers can stand a chance against the employer. This is just a classic example of lots of workers/players and very few jobs. Im making it sound a bit overly dramatic but its to make you understand the point that its not just black and white. Players will ofcourse come to the tournament as you say, but I think the organizer should recgonize that the players provide the product which is the games, the entertainment and thus should be rewarden with more than a payed trip to the job and home.
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On January 28 2014 09:36 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:33 goofyballer wrote:On January 28 2014 09:30 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:23 Fjodorov wrote:On January 28 2014 09:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:05 goofyballer wrote:
There's so much derp in this thread of people being like "wow everyone's so ungrateful." It echoes Sundance's retarded tweet however long ago when he said "if you give $5 to esports fans they'll yell at you for not giving them $10". It ignores the valid arguments people are making about how difficult it is to make a living SC2 and how this tournament is exacerbating the problem instead of helping it.
San is one of the players qualified for this tournament; he has lifetime winnings of $34,945 dating back to October 2010, according to sc2earnings.com. So in his 40 months of being a pro gamer, and a full-fledged adult now at the age of 21, he's earned an average of $10,483.50 per year; in other words, below the poverty line in the USA. I'm sure he's ecstatic that IEM is giving him a chance to win $100,000 (he won't) with a 93.75% chance of him walking home empty-handed (assuming all players have an equal chance, which they don't) when a team house and whatever meager salary/sponsorships he earn are the only things keeping him from being goddamn homeless.
Even MC, the winningest player in SC2 history, has earned $130,000 per year w/o sponsorships+team salary. That's a solid living, sure, but consider that the most successful player ever to play StarCraft 2 barely makes more money from tournaments than your average Google software engineer. When you consider that the vast majority of SC2 players make a small fraction of MC's winnings, why on earth would anyone who has a chance at a good career give that up to make esports poverty money? I'm a software engineer and there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever leave this career to play StarCraft, even if I was one of the best players in the world.
So when tournaments like this come along, promising to make one lucky player rich (well, "esports rich", it's just $100k) while 15 players go home with nothing and have ramen for dinner, think about why there aren't more people that could potentially be the next MC or MVP or Naniwa rushing to join the SC2 community and go pro and entertain us with amazing games. I missed the part where it's IEM's responsibility to provide a standard of living for Starcraft professional players. They're a tournament and this prize pool structure is there to generate hype for the tournament because people love watching things played for high stakes whether it's Poker, Sports or E-Sports. IEM isn't in business to cater to the needs of every professional Starcraft 2 player, they are in the tournament running business and their goal in that venture is to make money which relies heavily on hype to generate viewers. I get the plight of the Starcraft professional, really I get it, but the burden isn't on tournaments to provide equal pay out to everyone. What you should be clamoring for is more sustained income for players through sponsorships, you should be campaigning for viewers to turn off adblock, or buying merchandise. Going after the tournaments on this basis doesn't help anything. If the tournaments can't make money, then they shut down and EVERYONE loses. So get it through your head, this move by IEM is a MARKETING STRATEGY. Accept that it isn't meant to be beneficial to the players, it's meant to generate buzz. It's also only ONE fucking tournament, it isn't like IEM is changing EVERY tournament to function this way. I really don't understand why everyone is overreacting towards this. But the players provide value for the tournament. People tune in to see the players. The tournament and the players use eachother and need eachother. Thats why it can be seen as a problem when a bunch of players showing up to IEM with their value as players/teams and their fanbases in the back, generating business for IEM, and all the players dont get ANYTHING for it. Ok so if the players are so against this format they'll boycott it and IEM will lose viewers.
But we know that's not going to happen. Plenty of top players are going to show up because they'd be stupid to pass up a chance at 100,000 dollars.The prize pool is the only obligation the tournament has. People will show up to a 100 grand tournament, IEM is already going a step further than they actually NEED to by providing lodging and travel expenses. The players are going to come. Sounds like you also need to read up on collective bargaining and how things generally go when large organizations negotiate with disjointed individuals. If you think that desperate players showing up to an event that might pay them money to live on (but probably won't) instead of boycotting is an implicit endorsement of its structure and a good thing, then, uh...wow. This is just ONE tournament in an entire freaking YEAR of Starcraft. Explain to me, please explain to me why it is OBLIGATED to set its pay structure in any way.
They're not obligated at all, they could give each player a random percent of the prize money if they wanted to, it still wouldn't be a good prize structure.
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On January 28 2014 07:48 Mensol wrote:
Please invite Fantasy and Flash.
Especially Fantasy.
It's impossible, because KT will meet SK T1 in SPL one day after the World Championship.
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On January 28 2014 09:36 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:33 goofyballer wrote:On January 28 2014 09:30 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:23 Fjodorov wrote:On January 28 2014 09:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 28 2014 09:05 goofyballer wrote:
There's so much derp in this thread of people being like "wow everyone's so ungrateful." It echoes Sundance's retarded tweet however long ago when he said "if you give $5 to esports fans they'll yell at you for not giving them $10". It ignores the valid arguments people are making about how difficult it is to make a living SC2 and how this tournament is exacerbating the problem instead of helping it.
San is one of the players qualified for this tournament; he has lifetime winnings of $34,945 dating back to October 2010, according to sc2earnings.com. So in his 40 months of being a pro gamer, and a full-fledged adult now at the age of 21, he's earned an average of $10,483.50 per year; in other words, below the poverty line in the USA. I'm sure he's ecstatic that IEM is giving him a chance to win $100,000 (he won't) with a 93.75% chance of him walking home empty-handed (assuming all players have an equal chance, which they don't) when a team house and whatever meager salary/sponsorships he earn are the only things keeping him from being goddamn homeless.
Even MC, the winningest player in SC2 history, has earned $130,000 per year w/o sponsorships+team salary. That's a solid living, sure, but consider that the most successful player ever to play StarCraft 2 barely makes more money from tournaments than your average Google software engineer. When you consider that the vast majority of SC2 players make a small fraction of MC's winnings, why on earth would anyone who has a chance at a good career give that up to make esports poverty money? I'm a software engineer and there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever leave this career to play StarCraft, even if I was one of the best players in the world.
So when tournaments like this come along, promising to make one lucky player rich (well, "esports rich", it's just $100k) while 15 players go home with nothing and have ramen for dinner, think about why there aren't more people that could potentially be the next MC or MVP or Naniwa rushing to join the SC2 community and go pro and entertain us with amazing games. I missed the part where it's IEM's responsibility to provide a standard of living for Starcraft professional players. They're a tournament and this prize pool structure is there to generate hype for the tournament because people love watching things played for high stakes whether it's Poker, Sports or E-Sports. IEM isn't in business to cater to the needs of every professional Starcraft 2 player, they are in the tournament running business and their goal in that venture is to make money which relies heavily on hype to generate viewers. I get the plight of the Starcraft professional, really I get it, but the burden isn't on tournaments to provide equal pay out to everyone. What you should be clamoring for is more sustained income for players through sponsorships, you should be campaigning for viewers to turn off adblock, or buying merchandise. Going after the tournaments on this basis doesn't help anything. If the tournaments can't make money, then they shut down and EVERYONE loses. So get it through your head, this move by IEM is a MARKETING STRATEGY. Accept that it isn't meant to be beneficial to the players, it's meant to generate buzz. It's also only ONE fucking tournament, it isn't like IEM is changing EVERY tournament to function this way. I really don't understand why everyone is overreacting towards this. But the players provide value for the tournament. People tune in to see the players. The tournament and the players use eachother and need eachother. Thats why it can be seen as a problem when a bunch of players showing up to IEM with their value as players/teams and their fanbases in the back, generating business for IEM, and all the players dont get ANYTHING for it. Ok so if the players are so against this format they'll boycott it and IEM will lose viewers.
But we know that's not going to happen. Plenty of top players are going to show up because they'd be stupid to pass up a chance at 100,000 dollars.The prize pool is the only obligation the tournament has. People will show up to a 100 grand tournament, IEM is already going a step further than they actually NEED to by providing lodging and travel expenses. The players are going to come. Sounds like you also need to read up on collective bargaining and how things generally go when large organizations negotiate with disjointed individuals. If you think that desperate players showing up to an event that might pay them money to live on (but probably won't) instead of boycotting is an implicit endorsement of its structure and a good thing, then, uh...wow. This is just ONE tournament in an entire freaking YEAR of Starcraft. Explain to me, please explain to me why it is OBLIGATED to set its pay structure in any way.
Nobody's saying they're obligated to do anything? We're saying it's stupid to do it the way they're doing. They can do whatever they want, they're just probably killing esports and hurting their future business while they're at it is all.
Also, it bears noting that "this ONE tournament in an entire freaking YEAR of Starcraft" is likely the largest $$ equity that any of these guys, save the very best in their regions (only Life/Naniwa of those qualified so far), will have in a tournament this year. And most of them won't see it realized.
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I get the feeling this tourney will produce the best games of the year. The finals will probably be the best series. Lookin forward to it!
Also it is just one tourney out of thousands. Not sure what the big deal is. Like the IEM guys said, if you don't think you can win maybe you shouldn't try and save the travel money.
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If the players are -GOING TO- split this, as a fair number of people, esports personalities included, have suggested then that is just sad. I'm with IEM at this point, having Katowice as a fun, one off, intense tournament FOR THE FANS seems like a great idea. There are no players who depended on 14th place at an IEM event to pay the bills (or any position tbh). If I'm wrong about that, it's a fault of the player, not the tournament.
This will be fun to watch. I haven't followed a SC2 tourney intently in 6 months or so, but I will for this one. Mission accomplished IEM.
Edit: to clarify, I have faith in the sc2 pros that they won't match fix for 25-50k... I hope I am proven right.
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Thats why I don't get why SC2 outside KR/Proleague have "pro" teams. Teams are supposed to pay a salary to players but because teams are not emphasized enough in SC2 they cant get good sponsorships and without those many players don't earn a good salary or get money at all. Then players rely on prizes to live, but there is not enough money in the scene to sustain these "pro" players. It wouldn't be a big deal to have a prize pool like these if players got paid well by their teams.
Maybe if SC2 worked more like tennis (no teams/individual sponsors/different levels of tournaments)... Or WCS go full team league...
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I just don't know why everyone's biting the hype line. I only hear "we want the hype of a $100,000 first place prize, but we lose money with SC2 and can't afford a prize structure under that."
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Jaedong's gonna be so mad after this one.
Real talk though: this had better be bo5s with a bo11 final. We've asked for this sort of thing before, we all want it, and every comeback from 2:0 will be so much sweeter.
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I can feel my heart breaking for whoever comes in 2nd already.
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On January 28 2014 09:43 Verror wrote:
If the players are -GOING TO- split this, as a fair number of people, esports personalities included, have suggested then that is just sad. I'm with IEM at this point, having Katowice as a fun, one off, intense tournament FOR THE FANS seems like a great idea. There are no players who depended on 14th place at an IEM event to pay the bills (or any position tbh). If I'm wrong about that, it's a fault of the player, not the tournament.
This will be fun to watch. I haven't followed a SC2 tourney intently in 6 months or so, but I will for this one. Mission accomplished IEM.
Edit: to clarify, I have faith in the sc2 pros that they won't match fix for 25-50k... I hope I am proven right.
Match fixing is if they decide who is going to win before they even play the games. Thats not what ppl are talking about. Its entirely possible, and not even anything wrong with, the final two players splitting so that lets say first place gets 70k and second 30k. They will both play their best to win, just making sure they both get a good amount of money.
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On January 28 2014 09:31 QuietEnvoy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It's hard to be negative about a $100k announcement but this is just bad. This is sad and bad for the game, teams, players and in the end to fans. As a fan I want that these young guys that are playing at an age that are suppose to be study at least have some money in the bank to make a decent transition after being players. Nowadays money is the end to anything and we keep forget that players, teams and sponsors, all the ecosystem that build this machine, have to make money to be sustainable. I love to watch players practicing daily on twitch.tv. Recently I watch Warer Invitacional and I was happy that these player were "fighting" for nice cash price. I discover Warer.com so this company should be happy because I get the message, it was a great tournament and it was small. Works fine for all the parts. At the end this is one way to destroy teams and players effort. No one will be happy about this.
I disagree. Whoever wins IEM Katowice will be giddy with joy over this decision
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On January 28 2014 09:44 ivancype wrote:
Thats why I don't get why SC2 outside KR/Proleague have "pro" teams. Teams are supposed to pay a salary to players but because teams are not emphasized enough in SC2 they cant get good sponsorships and without those many players don't earn a good salary or get money at all. Then players rely on prizes to live, but there is not enough money in the scene to sustain these "pro" players. It wouldn't be a big deal to have a prize pool like these if players got paid well by their teams.
Maybe if SC2 worked more like tennis (no teams/individual sponsors/different levels of tournaments)... Or WCS go full team league...
I'm more confused why people who play a sport as a living expect to earn a living if they can't compete.
If I'm a hockey player who can't make it into a decent league, why should anyone be paying me for this? Am I not just doing this for fun?
Same thing with Starcraft players, If you can't play at the level where the money is, why are you expecting to earn money?
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On January 28 2014 09:42 Orcasgt24 wrote:
I get the feeling this tourney will produce the best games of the year. The finals will probably be the best series. Lookin forward to it!
Also it is just one tourney out of thousands. Not sure what the big deal is. Like the IEM guys said, if you don't think you can win maybe you shouldn't try and save the travel money.
"Just one tourney out of thousands" is massive understatement and overstatement. There are not thousands of tournaments this year. I'm not even sure if there have been one thousand tournaments in SC2 as a whole...
And saying it's "just one" doesn't acknowledge how meaningful qualifying for IEM WC meant in previous years.
Take IEM WC 2013:
Yoda: $40,000 first place, ~75% of year's earnings.
First: $15,000 second place, ~40% of year's earnings.
MVP: $7,500 third place, ~8%
YongHwa: $7,500 fourth, >50%
Parting: $3,500 fifth, ~5%
Ret, Mana, Violet: $3,500 6-8th, ~50%
Out of 24 players, I think MC is the only one that could've skipped the money without too worse-for-wear.
On January 28 2014 09:51 Verror wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:44 ivancype wrote:
Thats why I don't get why SC2 outside KR/Proleague have "pro" teams. Teams are supposed to pay a salary to players but because teams are not emphasized enough in SC2 they cant get good sponsorships and without those many players don't earn a good salary or get money at all. Then players rely on prizes to live, but there is not enough money in the scene to sustain these "pro" players. It wouldn't be a big deal to have a prize pool like these if players got paid well by their teams.
Maybe if SC2 worked more like tennis (no teams/individual sponsors/different levels of tournaments)... Or WCS go full team league... I'm more confused why people who play a sport as a living expect to earn a living if they can't compete. If I'm a hockey player who can't make it into a decent league, why should anyone be paying me for this? Am I not just doing this for fun? Same thing with Starcraft players, If you can't play at the level where the money is, why are you expecting to earn money?
Again, for all you guys trying to make sport analogies, come back when the 70th place finisher is making $10,000 for losing first round.
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EPT
