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On January 28 2014 06:57 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 06:52 styleworks79 wrote:On January 28 2014 06:13 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
More i think about this IEM, more i like it lol.
It's like Hunger Games but without any deaths.
Good job, Carmac. Lmao, i'm even considering trip to Poland now. you are clearly not a real fan of the sc scene and your comparison proved it well. are you kidding me? hunger games? wow, just wow. we have tons of financial dramas within the sc2 scene, and that means it's a struggle already for many players. winner takes all is pretty much discounting those pros that puts in hard work, and their passion towards the game. you are entitle to your opinion, but hunger games? c'mon broski. rofl. SC scene cannot be sustained on tournament prize money forever. The players should be paid by their teams, if the are supposed to be called professionals. They are WORKING for their team, so they should receive salary. If they are not satisfied with their salary, they should either find a different employer or a different job. That's how it works in the world. In most real sports, tournaments and leagues are more about prestige than prize money. I mean sure, Champion's League has a big prize pool, but that's just a change for a team like Manchester United. Same goes for any other league you can imagine - NHL, olympics, NFL, FIFA World Cup etc etc...
Agreed.
If people want to argue about the survival of the professional starcraft scene then tournaments aren't where they should be directing their attention. Players need consistent income in the form of salaries, tournaments don't exist to keep the careers of struggling players alive, they are there to make money on their own in the form of sponsors and for that they need viewers.
Tournaments are not a fucking charity. If this gets IEM more viewers then they're going to do it.
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On January 28 2014 04:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It's hard to be negative about a $100k announcement but this is just bad.
Wow, this is just nuts. I would think that they could at least give SOMETHING to 2nd place.
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Is Kennigit now working for ESL or why is he trying to make this seem positive?
Terrible decison imo. They try to create some attention for themselves at the cost of the players.
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On January 28 2014 06:57 TheFlexN wrote:
This is horrible, tournament will probably full with cheesy builds and it will be just dumb. I feel that this is a terrible idea for a tournament, think about the olympics with only gold medals, 2nd and 3rd place get nothing, they just lost, so they arent as important as the winner. Waste of 100k that could have been an amazing prize pool for a tournament with 40k for 1st place and then spread the money like you should do with a tournament this size.
I'd make a statue of whoever has the balls to cheese in game worth $100k
This is an awesome way to build hype, it's first time I'm excited for an IEM and also the first one I'll watch in its entirety
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On January 28 2014 07:00 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 06:57 Ammanas wrote:On January 28 2014 06:52 styleworks79 wrote:On January 28 2014 06:13 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
More i think about this IEM, more i like it lol.
It's like Hunger Games but without any deaths.
Good job, Carmac. Lmao, i'm even considering trip to Poland now. you are clearly not a real fan of the sc scene and your comparison proved it well. are you kidding me? hunger games? wow, just wow. we have tons of financial dramas within the sc2 scene, and that means it's a struggle already for many players. winner takes all is pretty much discounting those pros that puts in hard work, and their passion towards the game. you are entitle to your opinion, but hunger games? c'mon broski. rofl. SC scene cannot be sustained on tournament prize money forever. The players should be paid by their teams, if the are supposed to be called professionals. They are WORKING for their team, so they should receive salary. If they are not satisfied with their salary, they should either find a different employer or a different job. That's how it works in the world. In most real sports, tournaments and leagues are more about prestige than prize money. I mean sure, Champion's League has a big prize pool, but that's just a change for a team like Manchester United. Same goes for any other league you can imagine - NHL, olympics, NFL, FIFA World Cup etc etc... Agreed. If people want to argue about the survival of the professional starcraft scene then tournaments aren't where they should be directing their attention. Players need consistent income in the form of salaries, tournaments don't exist to keep the careers of struggling players alive, they are there to make money on their own in the form of sponsors and for that they need viewers. Tournaments are not a fucking charity. If this gets IEM more viewers then they're going to do it.
Do you people even pay attention to real sports when you try to compare?
Most athletes in professional sports don't get sustainable incomes. Sure, your NHL, NFL and FIFA players get ludicrous salaries (and even then only the top % of pros get that), but what about the sports that aren't billion dollar televised industries?
Stop comparing SC2 to sports where just being a pro gives you a good living, and look at the thousands of other professional athletes in the world.
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On January 28 2014 06:59 opisska wrote:
Finally there is a tournament that makes sense! All these times when I was waching some finals only to see that it actually doesn't make much of a difference in terms of payout ...
I can't really understand why pepole are against this - it is a fucking competition. Or have you already forgotten, what a competition is? This is just the what the "everyone is a winner" attitude of modern western world does to people.
Did you consider the possibility of a split? You think if Taeja and HerO would meet in the finals, they wouldn't share the money? People are against this, because the final might have no meaning at all, or very little meaning with a 60:40 split. The difference in payout might be smaller than ever.
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On January 28 2014 06:28 Muffloe wrote:
I don't see the point, bigger incentive? Imagine the finals ending in a fashion of Mvp vs Squirtle, literally decided by an inch. I guess you could say; won't somebody think of the players!
Widely regarded as the best GSL final of all time?
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On January 28 2014 07:02 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 06:57 TheFlexN wrote:
This is horrible, tournament will probably full with cheesy builds and it will be just dumb. I feel that this is a terrible idea for a tournament, think about the olympics with only gold medals, 2nd and 3rd place get nothing, they just lost, so they arent as important as the winner. Waste of 100k that could have been an amazing prize pool for a tournament with 40k for 1st place and then spread the money like you should do with a tournament this size. I'd make a statue of whoever has the balls to cheese in game worth $100k This is an awesome way to build hype, it's first time I'm excited for an IEM and also the first one I'll watch in its entirety
Better start working on that Naniwa scultpure. Balls of steel that guy.
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On January 28 2014 07:00 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 06:57 Ammanas wrote:On January 28 2014 06:52 styleworks79 wrote:On January 28 2014 06:13 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
More i think about this IEM, more i like it lol.
It's like Hunger Games but without any deaths.
Good job, Carmac. Lmao, i'm even considering trip to Poland now. you are clearly not a real fan of the sc scene and your comparison proved it well. are you kidding me? hunger games? wow, just wow. we have tons of financial dramas within the sc2 scene, and that means it's a struggle already for many players. winner takes all is pretty much discounting those pros that puts in hard work, and their passion towards the game. you are entitle to your opinion, but hunger games? c'mon broski. rofl. SC scene cannot be sustained on tournament prize money forever. The players should be paid by their teams, if the are supposed to be called professionals. They are WORKING for their team, so they should receive salary. If they are not satisfied with their salary, they should either find a different employer or a different job. That's how it works in the world. In most real sports, tournaments and leagues are more about prestige than prize money. I mean sure, Champion's League has a big prize pool, but that's just a change for a team like Manchester United. Same goes for any other league you can imagine - NHL, olympics, NFL, FIFA World Cup etc etc... Agreed. If people want to argue about the survival of the professional starcraft scene then tournaments aren't where they should be directing their attention. Players need consistent income in the form of salaries, tournaments don't exist to keep the careers of struggling players alive, they are there to make money on their own in the form of sponsors and for that they need viewers. Tournaments are not a fucking charity. If this gets IEM more viewers then they're going to do it.
In Champion's league and most other sports events the teams get a part of the broadcast money so it's easier for them to pay their teams a base salary than in e-sports. think of the broadcast money as attendance fee just like IEM usually does and now doesn't.
And lots of regular champion league teams actually struggle financially if they fail to qualify for it.
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LOL...
I can only expect how upset people will be at every cheesy game...
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mo money mo problems (if the money isnt properly distributed)
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Canada1637 Posts
On January 28 2014 05:55 Musicus wrote:
I am that guy, who wants an autograph?
But seriously, they need the money and I think they'd split if it's 100k or nothing or they'd be stupid. Missing out on that much money just because they don't like each other? I think they are smarter than that.
If anything. financially well off and competitive people like JD or MC wouldn't split.
Yeah, I think they'd split as well!
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I'm not seeing the huge problem here. If you dislike the tournament, don't sign up. It seems just that simple.
If you decided you wanted to host a $200k tournament and it was winner-take-all, it would your prerogative, right?
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United States23455 Posts
On January 28 2014 07:05 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 07:02 Kergy wrote:On January 28 2014 06:57 TheFlexN wrote:
This is horrible, tournament will probably full with cheesy builds and it will be just dumb. I feel that this is a terrible idea for a tournament, think about the olympics with only gold medals, 2nd and 3rd place get nothing, they just lost, so they arent as important as the winner. Waste of 100k that could have been an amazing prize pool for a tournament with 40k for 1st place and then spread the money like you should do with a tournament this size. I'd make a statue of whoever has the balls to cheese in game worth $100k This is an awesome way to build hype, it's first time I'm excited for an IEM and also the first one I'll watch in its entirety Better start working on that Naniwa scultpure. Balls of steel that guy.
sOs and Mvp both have the balls to do that, as we've seen.
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On January 28 2014 06:57 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:34 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:29 GodOfWarAReS wrote:
first place 50.000 second 30.000 third and fourth 2x10.000 sounds better. 100.000k for the winner and the others dont get anything at all? what motivation you would have if you know that your gonna get only second or third place? plus many players dont have that much money but are still very skilled. then they get second place but dont get any money at all.
and the winner is probably a cheeser who knows that he doesnt have a chance in macro games What motivation if you know your going to get second or third? Who goes into a tournament thinking I am only going to get second or third? This encourages players to perform at their highest level for a great grand prize, 100,000 can make a players year or even TWO years. If a cheeser ends up winning that is the fault of the other players… Again this is only for the finals of the whole year… How is it fair if the top 4 get money and the other 12 get nothing? They came to compete also!! The money is not for everyone, it is for the BEST. A lot of people, in every individual sport. Tennis and golf for instance are filled with professional players who are very good but generally not able to contend with the top few in the world, but we still see them playing lots of tournaments every year because it's what they enjoy, it's what they're good at, and because they make enough money through sponsorships and whatever share of the prize money they get to continue playing and working at becoming better. Having that middle ground between getting all the money and getting nothing is very important because it makes it a more feasible option for people. Everyone may want to be the best, and everyone may be working to be the best, but the reality is only a select very few are ever going to actually achieve it. And if those few are the only ones able to financially sustain a career, how is that going to help foster new talent or keep current middling pros or up and comers interested in playing? All it does is put the most successful players in a position to continue being successful while everyone else has to battle for scraps and wonder what the hell they've gotten themselves into, and worry about what they're going to do with themselves after their foray into progaming is over. TLDR version if you want a healthy scene that can attract new talent, you gotta make sure people are getting paid enough to make it worth their time, even if they're not the ones collecting the trophies.
This....
Because only an idiot will say "I'm going to try to be a professional athlete, but only if I can be the #1 in the world!!!"
"I'm going to do my best doing what I love" is what they really say, and having a major source of sc2 money taken away from a whole amount of players is not a good way to make that happen. IEM wanted to try something that'll bump up viewer numbers, not something that's actually fun, and actually worth the time and effort for the people involved. Telling 15 people that they get to stay in a hotel and not get paid anything for their time is not appealing, regardless of how appealing IEM tries to make it out to be.
On January 28 2014 07:10 danl9rm wrote:
I'm not seeing the huge problem here. If you dislike the tournament, don't sign up. It seems just that simple.
If you decided you wanted to host a $200k tournament and it was winner-take-all, it would your prerogative, right?
You're not looking at anything but words. Try putting the pieces together. If you don't find a problem, then you've get a problem.
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On January 28 2014 07:10 danl9rm wrote:
I'm not seeing the huge problem here. If you dislike the tournament, don't sign up. It seems just that simple.
This point kind of falls flat since IEM is like halfway through their season though, no?
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On January 28 2014 07:00 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:34 tuoli9 wrote:On January 28 2014 05:32 DinoMight wrote:On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. 90% of Tennis players who get to the finals are eliminated by Nadal, Djokovic, or Federer. They still show up and compete. They are getting exposure, they are getting paid by their sponsors. AND there is a chance they could win. Aaannd they make much more money than SC2 pros... AND they make a fuck ton of money from losing to Djokavic. The problem is not that only a few players have a solid chance at winning, it's that everyone else needs to get paid and get points. Even if they lose to Djokavic in the first round, they make good money for qualifying and they get good points that will help them get qualified to play the highest level of tournaments (which give a lot of prize money, even to last place, because they are the highest level tournaments). Can you imagine Rolland Garros or something saying "okay guys, this time we'll fuck around and not give points to anyone, and only give prize money to first place" Rolland Garros probably wouldn't be a major after that. The association would kick the Rolland Garros out of the majors. Like I said before, the idea of a winner takes all tournament is fun and cool, but not for a high level tournament. That sort of thing needs to be done as a side event, on a much smaller scale. That's a lot of prizemoney that a lot of people won't be getting. It's not a joke that you fuck around with. Imagine if your boss at work said "hey guys, we've been paying everyone steady rates all this time, now let's have some fun and give everyone's wages to whoever is employee of the month!!" This isn't part time shit. IEM is supposed to be helping sc2 pros maintain something closer to a stable career. WCS can not do it by themselves. Not even close. And the IEM employee's view on this is what's most disgusting.
No. IEM isn't an employer of SC2 professional gamers nor are they some kind of source of welfare for them. It's a form of entertainment for the viewers. It's their money with the help of sponsors. They get to use it how they want it. It didn't come from the government, gamers' employers, or from any association/organization that advocates a gamers' career.
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On January 28 2014 07:10 danl9rm wrote:
I'm not seeing the huge problem here. If you dislike the tournament, don't sign up. It seems just that simple.
If you decided you wanted to host a $200k tournament and it was winner-take-all, it would your prerogative, right?
Yes it is.
IEM is already doing a good thing by offering to pay for all expenses to the players so they at least don't have to LOSE money just for attending.
How they distribute the prize pool is entirely up to them.
If the players don't like it they can boycott it. If ENOUGH players boycott it then IEM loses out on viewers because they have to run a big tournament with no big name players to play in.
Which we all know won't happen because plenty of players are going to attend regardless of how the prize pool is being split because no one who thinks they have a chance at winning would be stupid enough to pass up a shot at that much money.
I really don't get the complaining. I really don't. If people in this thread cared so passionately about the survival of professional starcraft player's careers they'd turn at least turn off adblock which we know they don't do.
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EPT
