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On January 28 2014 05:28 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:25 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:23 mikkmagro wrote:
People forget that ESL was for a long time a big advocate for not having a top heavy prizepool for their regular circuit events. It is still that way for all their global championships, just not for the World Championship, which is one event.
As for helping progamers make money, ESL is the organiser with the largest span of countries in which they organise events in as many continents and for as many scenes as possible. Singapore, Brazil, Ukraine...they go EVERYWHERE, and they always invite the 'local champion' directly into the tournament to give people a hometown favourite. They provide qualifiers for all the regions, including Taiwan, Oceania, etc to make sure everyone has a shot.
Apart from that, they organise hundreds of smaller regional and local tournaments such as the ESL Euro Series, the EPS in Germany and Spain, weekly and monthly cups etc.
So really, they deserve no criticism at all from that front. They're just doing one event differently. Yeah it seems a lot of people in this community are quite bad at such things as "perspective" and "remembering the past" (except when it's some massively stupid drama incident)... Who would've thunk it?  Fuck that, pitchforks at the ready. We remember the past. We know, what ESL is capable of as a tournament organizer and we know, that they do very much for the scene. Doing good things in the past does´nt make doing bad things in the future right though. If you talk about "perspective", you should be able to differentiate between different time-zones and view them in different perspectives.
Lots of people don't seem to remember delays regarding prize money too. Not like esl is a white knight going on for esports lol
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This isn't the best thing for the scene, that should be the most important objective.
Seems like IEM just wants to create DRAMA, which, due to players most likely splitting the prize money, will ultimately fall flat.
I think there are far better way to create hype around the tournament than this.
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On January 28 2014 05:28 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:26 Yorbon wrote:On January 28 2014 05:19 Plansix wrote:On January 28 2014 05:17 Yorbon wrote:On January 28 2014 05:10 Derez wrote:On January 28 2014 05:08 Yorbon wrote:
The finals will be awesome, from a spectator point of view.
I don't know if i like it, though. Very glad that expenses are covered, otherwise it would've been pretty terrible.
Thinking about it, except i if were a top notch player, i wouldn't even want to attend, i wouldn't have any motivation, at all. Well, its free to go and they'll get their sponsor shirts on the air. Don't see a reason why any player would not go. Opportunity costs; that time can be spent a better way; like practicing for something else near that time, the player has already committed to. When you're not a top notch player, it's not very likely to play any role of significance, and thus the value for sponsors will be minimal. And those are decisions players can make for themselves. We know some of them are going to say"fuck it, I want 100K" Sure. Let me quote myself: 'i wouldn't even want to attend, i wouldn't have any motivation, at all'. You know, first person. It's easy to say that when the only perspective you're familiar with is that of someone who can't compete on that level (or anywhere near it) to begin with, but I'm sure someone like MC would disagree. (I mention him because he's generally more ballsy than other pros) Let me quote myself again: 'except i if were a top notch player, i wouldn't even want to attend, i wouldn't have any motivation, at all.'
So yeah, of course i'd understand mc going.
Edit: You're making quite some assumptions about me on a personal level. That i've never achieved anything in sc2 doesnt say i haven't ever have dealt with these kind of choices...
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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I am sure that some of the players that dont have paid slots(not sure who they are) might just pull out from the tournament
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On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts.
90% of Tennis players who get to the finals are eliminated by Nadal, Djokovic, or Federer.
They still show up and compete. They are getting exposure, they are getting paid by their sponsors. AND there is a chance they could win.
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I'm shaking my head at Babyknight's tweet.
If you as a player hate the terms of a tournament then don't compete. Let someone else have a chance.
I'm excited for this, even if the player's decide to split the prize among themselves (wouldn't blame them at all for doing it) the concept adds a ton of suspense for the viewers.
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On January 28 2014 05:32 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. 90% of Tennis players who get to the finals are eliminated by Nadal, Djokovic, or Federer. They still show up and compete. They are getting exposure, they are getting paid by their sponsors. AND there is a chance they could win.
and they win some prize money.
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On January 28 2014 05:30 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:28 Xoronius wrote:On January 28 2014 05:25 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:23 mikkmagro wrote:
People forget that ESL was for a long time a big advocate for not having a top heavy prizepool for their regular circuit events. It is still that way for all their global championships, just not for the World Championship, which is one event.
As for helping progamers make money, ESL is the organiser with the largest span of countries in which they organise events in as many continents and for as many scenes as possible. Singapore, Brazil, Ukraine...they go EVERYWHERE, and they always invite the 'local champion' directly into the tournament to give people a hometown favourite. They provide qualifiers for all the regions, including Taiwan, Oceania, etc to make sure everyone has a shot.
Apart from that, they organise hundreds of smaller regional and local tournaments such as the ESL Euro Series, the EPS in Germany and Spain, weekly and monthly cups etc.
So really, they deserve no criticism at all from that front. They're just doing one event differently. Yeah it seems a lot of people in this community are quite bad at such things as "perspective" and "remembering the past" (except when it's some massively stupid drama incident)... Who would've thunk it? Fuck that, pitchforks at the ready. We remember the past. We know, what ESL is capable of as a tournament organizer and we know, that they do very much for the scene. Doing good things in the past does´nt make doing bad things in the future right though. If you talk about "perspective", you should be able to differentiate between different time-zones and view them in different perspectives. Lots of people don't seem to remember delays regarding prize money too. Not like esl is a white knight going on for esports lol
While I am against the announced prize-pool the comparism to this lacks. ESL was never unclear about their payment status. Everyone knew, the money would arrive late, it was communicated, that the money arrived late and the money always arrived, when it was supposed to arrive.
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On January 28 2014 04:58 Kennigit wrote:
Do i think Naniwa is going to keep his word and split 100k with the likes of Korean players he has shit on in the past? Would they split it back with him or take it to their team instead? I have no clue.
It bothers me a bit that someone involved with the organizing of a tournament considers things like this (especially after scumbag Naniwa put the bounty on anyone who beat Revival and didn't pay Taeja - apologies if he actually wound up making good on that and I didn't realize) and is like..."nah, it'll be fine, let's do this anyway."
As for the rest of your post, it takes a lot of hubris to think that the reason SC2 tournaments aren't getting more viewers is because Blizz is doing prize distribution wrong and you'll get it better. I'll happily eat my words if IEM Katowice is the most-viewed tournament of the year but it seems like you're grasping at straws to try to draw more interest to your events, as if you can improve on a 16 player single-elim bracket stacked with talent.
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On January 28 2014 05:29 RogerChillingworth wrote:
it would still be "A SHOW" if the 100k were split amongst the top 3 at least. Gold/silver/bronze? Anyone? No?
But then you wouldn't be able to push the "WINNER TAKES IT ALL HOLY HYPEBALLS THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND SC2 IS STILL ALIVE" cheap hypetrain bullshit.
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On January 28 2014 05:29 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:28 Plansix wrote:On January 28 2014 05:22 sAsImre wrote:On January 28 2014 05:21 Carmac wrote:On January 28 2014 04:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It's hard to be negative about a $100k announcement but this is just bad. If you like flat prize distributions, you should send your best players to events that have them. trolling on this subject isn't the best thing you'll ever do... I think it's great. Enough polite nonsense. If you don't like it, don't send your players. Problem solved. yeah sure, Nazgul says that he doesn't like the winner takes it all approach and replying with a troll about flat prize money distribution is great ?
It's fucking great. Cut throught the bullshit and get right to it. The money is there, if you want it, come get it and IEM will even give you a free hotel and plane flight.
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LOLOL Carmac disappointing. Does he really think WCS money is really enough to support player careers? I was just laughing at how stupid GSL prize money is (overall prize money was raised but everyone except first place prize money was dropped). IEM throwing 100k to one player? It's a cool idea, but not something for IEM to be doing right now.
It's not justifiable in today's world of professional SC2.
This is just a waste of professional effort, and quite honestly, in a better world, this is a waste of time (a more profitable event, aka one where players who need to pay bills can get a little something something, could be run at this time slot instead).
Why does 1 player need 3 times a years salary in one tournament anyways? When others can't even support themselves....
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On January 28 2014 05:30 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:28 Xoronius wrote:On January 28 2014 05:25 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:23 mikkmagro wrote:
People forget that ESL was for a long time a big advocate for not having a top heavy prizepool for their regular circuit events. It is still that way for all their global championships, just not for the World Championship, which is one event.
As for helping progamers make money, ESL is the organiser with the largest span of countries in which they organise events in as many continents and for as many scenes as possible. Singapore, Brazil, Ukraine...they go EVERYWHERE, and they always invite the 'local champion' directly into the tournament to give people a hometown favourite. They provide qualifiers for all the regions, including Taiwan, Oceania, etc to make sure everyone has a shot.
Apart from that, they organise hundreds of smaller regional and local tournaments such as the ESL Euro Series, the EPS in Germany and Spain, weekly and monthly cups etc.
So really, they deserve no criticism at all from that front. They're just doing one event differently. Yeah it seems a lot of people in this community are quite bad at such things as "perspective" and "remembering the past" (except when it's some massively stupid drama incident)... Who would've thunk it? Fuck that, pitchforks at the ready. We remember the past. We know, what ESL is capable of as a tournament organizer and we know, that they do very much for the scene. Doing good things in the past does´nt make doing bad things in the future right though. If you talk about "perspective", you should be able to differentiate between different time-zones and view them in different perspectives. Lots of people don't seem to remember delays regarding prize money too. Not like esl is a white knight going on for esports lol
Maybe not, but they've still done a lot more than the vast majority of companies. They always delivered eventually, which is more than can be said for most companies that have ventured in esports (and please bear in mind that esports spans more than SC2/DotA2/LoL that have only been around for a few years  )
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Even though I think it's silly and it's kind of unfair of ESL to host such a tournament, I honestly think pro players can't really be upset. They get to travel and see the world and participate in a nice tournament. Participation is what matters.
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On January 28 2014 05:32 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 05:30 sAsImre wrote:On January 28 2014 05:28 Xoronius wrote:On January 28 2014 05:25 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On January 28 2014 05:23 mikkmagro wrote:
People forget that ESL was for a long time a big advocate for not having a top heavy prizepool for their regular circuit events. It is still that way for all their global championships, just not for the World Championship, which is one event.
As for helping progamers make money, ESL is the organiser with the largest span of countries in which they organise events in as many continents and for as many scenes as possible. Singapore, Brazil, Ukraine...they go EVERYWHERE, and they always invite the 'local champion' directly into the tournament to give people a hometown favourite. They provide qualifiers for all the regions, including Taiwan, Oceania, etc to make sure everyone has a shot.
Apart from that, they organise hundreds of smaller regional and local tournaments such as the ESL Euro Series, the EPS in Germany and Spain, weekly and monthly cups etc.
So really, they deserve no criticism at all from that front. They're just doing one event differently. Yeah it seems a lot of people in this community are quite bad at such things as "perspective" and "remembering the past" (except when it's some massively stupid drama incident)... Who would've thunk it? Fuck that, pitchforks at the ready. We remember the past. We know, what ESL is capable of as a tournament organizer and we know, that they do very much for the scene. Doing good things in the past does´nt make doing bad things in the future right though. If you talk about "perspective", you should be able to differentiate between different time-zones and view them in different perspectives. Lots of people don't seem to remember delays regarding prize money too. Not like esl is a white knight going on for esports lol While I am against the announced prize-pool the comparism to this lacks. ESL was never unclear about their payment status. Everyone knew, the money would arrive late, it was communicated, that the money arrived late and the money always arrived, when it was supposed to arrive.
sometimes more than 18months after the actual tournament.
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On January 28 2014 05:23 mikkmagro wrote:
People forget that ESL was for a long time a big advocate for not having a top heavy prizepool for their regular circuit events. It is still that way for all their global championships, just not for the World Championship, which is one event.
As for helping progamers make money, ESL is the organiser with the largest span of countries in which they organise events in as many continents and for as many scenes as possible. Singapore, Brazil, Ukraine...they go EVERYWHERE, and they always invite the 'local champion' directly into the tournament to give people a hometown favourite. They provide qualifiers for all the regions, including Taiwan, Oceania, etc to make sure everyone has a shot.
Apart from that, they organise hundreds of smaller regional and local tournaments such as the ESL Euro Series, the EPS in Germany and Spain, weekly and monthly cups etc.
So really, they deserve no criticism at all from that front. They're just doing one event differently.
I agree. ESL has done a lot to sustain players around the globe. Let them have their fun and host this one event the way they like it.
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lol at any players who pull out of the tournament. Obviously they don't have the spine for it.
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On January 28 2014 05:32 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:38 shinobi112 wrote:On January 28 2014 04:35 Qwyn wrote:
This is really, really stupid. Thanks for giving all the other competitors in this thing no reward for their efforts whatsoever...
Honestly, what the fuck? This seems like more of the thing where a lot of talent would STAY AWAY just because there's no fucking point if they're just going to lose to a Korean... Really, you believe any foreigner just says well I am going to lose a Korean, I might as well not go… If you are going to lose to a korean mentality and there are 10 koreans you are not going to participate anyways because you will be knocked out first round before any money anyways… They all are INVITED to this tournament after getting other prize money earlier in the year… THIS is like a BONUS tournament… with a BONUS prize of 100,000 so… All these players already got paid for their efforts. 90% of Tennis players who get to the finals are eliminated by Nadal, Djokovic, or Federer. They still show up and compete. They are getting exposure, they are getting paid by their sponsors. AND there is a chance they could win.
Aaannd they make much more money than SC2 pros...
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EPT
