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Maybe this is stupid, but like other said, Phoenix are way more fun to play and watch than Corsairs, but both of them has key things on the game, like Splash or Moving fire.
So... could it be possible to change the Corsair for the Phoenix but put it with 2 modes like Vikings or something? So on one mode they act as normal Phoenixes (with or w/o Graviton) and the other can't shot while moving and maybe they are slower but fires with splash?
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In regards to the mechanics conversation above, my signature has been my signature for more than 10 years and for good reason 
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On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_-
Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken.
Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125
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Wouldn't it be cool to have phoenix back and a transformation mode that turns it into a tempest like long range siege unit
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Cant't wait for the 2.1 Patch. Im installing 2 of my network pcs for me and my nearby friend for "LAN" party. This is gonna be addictive!!!!
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what are good builds for ? Should I just look up brood war builds ?
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On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125
Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab).
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On January 20 2014 13:00 KDot2 wrote:
what are good builds for ? Should I just look up brood war builds ?
No; if you want BW builds, you're looking for the SC2BW mod.
This is kind of a mix, so the best builds were things that worked in both SC1 and SC2 - for example, Forge expands for Protoss are similar (not identical, but the concept is very similar) in both SC1 and SC2 and work well in Starbow.
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On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125
Irradiate is fine, you just have to split your units when they get irradiated. Plague hits multiple units and so does storm, so they can't really be compared with irradiate. Also, I agree with the fact that mutas would be too strong without irradiate the way it is, as they're strong in the hands of a good player even with irradiate. I've played 50+ games so far and haven't found it too tough to split off units that are irradiated, even against masters players.
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On January 20 2014 12:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:200-230 apm is not high by any standards, and he was definitely held back by it. His amazing brain more than made up for it though. The Bisu build was a direct attack on SaviOr's mechanical deficiency and had an extremely high multitask requirement. Which is why when the Bisu build came out, the only person that could actually win with it was Bisu. Also other Zergs didn't struggle against it as much as SaviOr did because they had better mechanics.
The Bisu build was an attack on how inflexible Savior's 3H in ZvP was...Not mechanical deficiency...while Savior isn't the fastest player 250 APM does not present a "mechanical deficiency." I don't know if you've ever watched a Savior POV but he's actually extremely efficient.
And the "Bisu build" had been experimented with even before Bisu - he was just the one who perfected it and exploited Savior's greatest weakness - his inflexibility.
Anyhow, the Starbow games today were awesome and I really enjoyed watching Beastyqt and Blade's respective POVs.
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On January 20 2014 13:03 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125 Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab).
Hm... i didn't realize it stacked in BW.
Well in this game i think its way to strong if the damage stacks because of unit pathing and just overall better AI. Also air units need to naturally spread out like they do in SC2, the fact they stay perma stacked is sorta stupid imo..
On a slightly different note, what about Dark Swarm, or just Defilers in general. They have like literally 0 cast range. It makes it very difficult to use they spells and keep them alive. Maybe give them like a 6 cast range for the spells?
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On January 20 2014 13:08 Munk200 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:03 dcemuser wrote:On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125 Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab). Hm... i didn't realize it stacked in BW. Well in this game i think its way to strong if the damage stacks because of unit pathing and just overall better AI. Also air units need to naturally spread out like they do in SC2, the fact they stay perma stacked is sorta stupid imo.. On a slightly different note, what about Dark Swarm, or just Defilers in general. They have like literally 0 cast range. It makes it very difficult to use they spells and keep them alive. Maybe give them like a 6 cast range for the spells?
people complaining over that Starbow has demanding mechanics? I'm really starting to like this.
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Northern Ireland25884 Posts
On January 20 2014 13:05 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:00 KDot2 wrote:
what are good builds for ? Should I just look up brood war builds ? No; if you want BW builds, you're looking for the SC2BW mod. This is kind of a mix, so the best builds were things that worked in both SC1 and SC2 - for example, Forge expands for Protoss are similar (not identical, but the concept is very similar) in both SC1 and SC2 and work well in Starbow.
BW builds are a good template for Protoss in SBow, who function incredibly differently without Warpgate.
Protoss also don't really have that many of their SC2 units remaining to fit strats around when comparing it to Zerg and Terran.
I imagine there are a ton of tweaks to be done, but BW build schematics and general game plans have served me well thus far
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On January 20 2014 13:14 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:08 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 13:03 dcemuser wrote:On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125 Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab). Hm... i didn't realize it stacked in BW. Well in this game i think its way to strong if the damage stacks because of unit pathing and just overall better AI. Also air units need to naturally spread out like they do in SC2, the fact they stay perma stacked is sorta stupid imo.. On a slightly different note, what about Dark Swarm, or just Defilers in general. They have like literally 0 cast range. It makes it very difficult to use they spells and keep them alive. Maybe give them like a 6 cast range for the spells? people complaining over that Starbow has demanding mechanics? I'm really starting to like this.
Because having a cast range of 1 is "demanding mechanics"..........
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On January 20 2014 13:17 Munk200 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:14 Integra wrote:On January 20 2014 13:08 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 13:03 dcemuser wrote:On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125 Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab). Hm... i didn't realize it stacked in BW. Well in this game i think its way to strong if the damage stacks because of unit pathing and just overall better AI. Also air units need to naturally spread out like they do in SC2, the fact they stay perma stacked is sorta stupid imo.. On a slightly different note, what about Dark Swarm, or just Defilers in general. They have like literally 0 cast range. It makes it very difficult to use they spells and keep them alive. Maybe give them like a 6 cast range for the spells? people complaining over that Starbow has demanding mechanics? I'm really starting to like this. Because having a cast range of 1 is "demanding mechanics"..........
it must be since you are complaining 
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On January 20 2014 13:08 Munk200 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:03 dcemuser wrote:On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125 Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab). Hm... i didn't realize it stacked in BW. Well in this game i think its way to strong if the damage stacks because of unit pathing and just overall better AI. Also air units need to naturally spread out like they do in SC2, the fact they stay perma stacked is sorta stupid imo.. On a slightly different note, what about Dark Swarm, or just Defilers in general. They have like literally 0 cast range. It makes it very difficult to use they spells and keep them alive. Maybe give them like a 6 cast range for the spells?
I always see Zergs use Dark Swarm to get into position BEFORE they use Dark Swarm to engage.
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Once 2.1 goes through and they upload to Korea and China (which they are in the process of translating) I think this thing might go bonkers. Like, a shit-load of people might start playing.
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On January 20 2014 13:19 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 13:17 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 13:14 Integra wrote:On January 20 2014 13:08 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 13:03 dcemuser wrote:On January 20 2014 12:56 Munk200 wrote:On January 20 2014 10:41 avilo wrote:
Irradiate is fine. It's one of the only counters, (probably the only one) to mass mutalisk. It needs to remain as is, and it also can be micro'd against by good players.
If you touch that, mass muta will be too powerful, especially with 12+ unit selection in a game like this...which would mean you'd then have to nerf unit selection...etc, it would become a slippery slope of changes that are unnecessary.
To sum up: you can micro vs irradiate with practice (just like Brood War) and mass muta with greater selection limit than 12 arguably makes mutalisks even more powerful in this than Brood War. So while irradiate with smartcast is powerful, 12+ units in group selection with Brood War style mutalisks is also powerful and they seem to balance each other out.
Also, there are a lot of Brood War noobies playing Starbow that came only from SC2 and don't realize scourge are in this game -_- Irradiate is not fine. Its a spell that stacks damage. Name a single other spell that does stack damage. Can you? No. The reason is because its blatantly broken. Lets have storms stack damage, , or Plague stack damage. It would be real fun to cast 4 plagues and watch your army all go to 1 HP in about 3 seconds. or to cast 2 storms on top of each other and do a total of 250 damage over the 6 seconds rather than the 125 Irradiate has always been this way though, iirc. Just make it easier to see and react to, like in Brood War. Science Vessels were awkward as fuck and had a literal casting delay on the Irradiate, and if you wanted to move them backwards after that, the Science Vessel had to take a sec to stop its momentum. Irradiate was also highly obvious (pretty big cloud) and was indicated very clearly on the unit portrait (so you could find it quickly with tab). Hm... i didn't realize it stacked in BW. Well in this game i think its way to strong if the damage stacks because of unit pathing and just overall better AI. Also air units need to naturally spread out like they do in SC2, the fact they stay perma stacked is sorta stupid imo.. On a slightly different note, what about Dark Swarm, or just Defilers in general. They have like literally 0 cast range. It makes it very difficult to use they spells and keep them alive. Maybe give them like a 6 cast range for the spells? people complaining over that Starbow has demanding mechanics? I'm really starting to like this. Because having a cast range of 1 is "demanding mechanics".......... it must be since you are complaining
By that logic SC2 must have crazy hard mechanics, because there are a lot of terrans that say HSM range is too short.
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On January 20 2014 12:31 Sogetsu wrote:
Maybe this is stupid, but like other said, Phoenix are way more fun to play and watch than Corsairs, but both of them has key things on the game, like Splash or Moving fire.
So... could it be possible to change the Corsair for the Phoenix but put it with 2 modes like Vikings or something? So on one mode they act as normal Phoenixes (with or w/o Graviton) and the other can't shot while moving and maybe they are slower but fires with splash?
Phoenix just don't make sense as a unit... Auto moving-shot, faster than and beat Vikings and Muta, and have ability to harass and take important units out of the fight.
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Vatican City State733 Posts
It would be really great to get a Skype group going for this.
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EPT
