EPTStarbow - Page 89
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
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GoShox
United States1843 Posts
On January 19 2014 18:24 TT1 wrote: nono me chobo; OTL T.T i think they need to increase the energy cost of chrono/larva inject thingy/terran chrono. imo its too easy to macro atm (mechanics aside) Yeah I don't like how easy it is to macro as a Protoss player, it really doesn't take much to max but I don't know what can really be done ;/ | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On January 19 2014 18:37 TT1 wrote:  ty, ive been playing alot of bw recently so i sharpened up on my builds again. gives a pretty big edge b.o-wise but not as much mechanics wisebtw the reason why losira's terran is so solid is because he used to play t in bw. dont think he was a progamer tho Yeah I know it's really cool how much is Losira's muscle memory. Zerg feels really wonky right now in Starbow especially with gas timings I dunno it feels like everything needs to be delayed a lot. It also doesn't really feel like taking a third at an opposite nat really translates well T_T. If you are playing in the Razer tournament I can't wait to see you pwn, damn! With how clean your builds are holy shit ahaha. Like a lot of builds especially any sort of two hatch lair feels really, really wonky and ZvZ is really fucked since so much gas is locked up and makes spire play feel really really weird. I think it's really cool how much more APM can be invested into engagements in this mod as opposed to SC2, and it feels like you can actually splitting forces around like in BW Just hoping for some sort of macro mechanic adjustment. -- Another thing that's really telling and makes me happy is how much cleaner your gateway blocks are than everyone else rofl it's so nice god you do it right. God people need to start placing buildings better >< --- There were points in one of TT1's games against Losira on FS where it really felt like there was so much engagement potential it felt so awesome O_O! I hope to see great players produce more games like this. | ||
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TT1
Canada10035 Posts
 . its already 5am | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now? Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery. While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building. So there is two negative effects here for zerg already. How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time? Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions. Opinions? I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed? To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision. For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose 1fac +1reactor. You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it. I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it? The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont. In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg. Comments/opninions? | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On January 19 2014 19:03 Foxxan wrote: What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish? Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now? Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery. While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building. So there is two negative effects here for zerg already. How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time? Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions. Opinions? I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed? To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision. For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose 1fac +1reactor. You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it. I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it? The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont. In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg. Comments/opninions? I think there's two parts that people who want macro to be harder want: 1. Making macro mechanics clean and fundamentally simpler to execute (queen inject just feels really wonky along will all the other stackable chronoboost). 2. Macro mechanics should have a short period meaning you have to go back to your base and "macro" every 20 seconds or less (something to simulate building and sending workers to mine in BW, in effect). In order for this to work they have to be required, important mechanics instead of just "optional." For each race IMO. Problem with queen's inject mechanic right now most of all is that it feels really really weird - there's no sense of psychological "progress," or "completion," especially since the inject can "stack" and doesn't need to "pop off" to be finished - meaning the timer is sort of worthless (I can just keep spamming the timer so it's always at 90%+ and queen energy regeneration is so insane I'm never going to be able to use it to gauge my inject skill). It's also way less beneficial because having multiple hatcheries is always going to be more valuable. As far as making fundamental, required mechanics that are essential for each race to perform at maximum potential, I have no idea...Something like - if I don't inject my hatchery/nexus/cc every blah/blah/blah seconds then my production is slower or my income is slower/faster...etc...obviously that's not an optimum idea it's just moving towards the direction of simulating BW style macro. One of the core ideas was making players have to return to their base to "macro," much like is necessary in BW with no MBS and worker rally. Terran workers are going to have to build a lot more barracks when playing bio styles if reactors are removed - I'm down for that but ultimately playing is necessary to get a feel for it xO. -- In fact, as far as zerg goes, delaying the queens extensively results in far cleaner builds and inject is really a "worthless mechanic," it's much more valuable for enrage/creep/nurture. | ||
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TT1
Canada10035 Posts
On January 19 2014 19:03 Foxxan wrote: What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish? Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now? Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery. While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building. So there is two negative effects here for zerg already. How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time? Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions. Opinions? I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed? To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision. For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose 1fac +1reactor. You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it. I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it? The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont. In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg. Comments/opninions? i wasnt talking about game mechanics (that being said id like it if the skillcap was raised aswell), i meant that it would slow down maxing/remaxing. the early game/midd game is fine but once you hit 3/4 bases ur almost always perma maxed, all you have to do is queue units up and mass chrono | ||
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Dragonei
Spain28 Posts
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On January 19 2014 19:25 TT1 wrote: i wasnt talking about game mechanics (that being said id like it if the skillcap was raised aswell), i meant that it would slow down maxing/remaxing. the early game/midd game is fine but once you hit 3/4 bases ur almost always perma maxed, all you have to do is queue units up and mass chrono wouldn't it be better to lower both energy cost and the duration of those 'spells'? From the mechanics standpoint, I mean. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
http://imgur.com/QVXkHgf It is not just that location but everywhere on that patch of land (basically everything in the picture is un-buildable). I also can't relocate my sunkens there, but creep tumors can still go down. Just a heads up im sure it should be an easy fix! Gl i love this mod | ||
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TT1
Canada10035 Posts
On January 19 2014 19:45 Ammanas wrote: wouldn't it be better to lower both energy cost and the duration of those 'spells'? From the mechanics standpoint, I mean. i mean u can lower the energy cost/duration as much as u want but its not that hard to mass chrono (cam key + cccccccc + 11/22/33 > go back to army). i would love it if my chrono ran out every 5 secs, that way i could spam some more ^.^. the problem is MBS but theres nothing we can really do about it but i like your idea, youre heading in the right direction. the best we can hope for is to find a way to combine MBS and challenging macro mechanics but i have no idea how wed achieve that | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
EDIT : Fixed img , oops. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HsrwFjf.jpg) | ||
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ganil
253 Posts
On January 19 2014 20:04 TT1 wrote: but i like your idea, youre heading in the right direction. the best we can hope for is to find a way to combine MBS and challenging macro mechanics but i have no idea how wed achieve that Some random idea. Increase every production time. Make chronoboost a "free" ability. The chronoboost duration should be equal to the time your facility take to build a unit. Using chronoboost allow you to go back to your old "fast" production rate. That way you select everything with mbs and pick a unit, then you have to manualy click on everything to get your old production rate. It emulates the old way of producing units. But I'm not sure it's a great way to do it. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On January 19 2014 20:14 IeZaeL wrote: Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? ) [img] I'd definitely play the map, not sure why it has to replace anything though. I don't think there are that many maps yet. | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
On January 19 2014 20:20 Dodgin wrote: I'd definitely play the map, not sure why it has to replace anything though. I don't think there are that many maps yet. As i made bloody ridge , it seems like macro is so easy on that map. i think it might remain as a starbow map , but not as an official tournament map. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On January 19 2014 20:14 IeZaeL wrote: Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? ) Overview looks kinda crappy unfortunately. EDIT : Fixed img , oops. Damn, amazing! Nice work man, Destination was among my favorite BW maps at the time I really followed BW. So many epic matches I saw on that map, I hope that you will achieve the same in Starbow. | ||
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phlebas
Germany60 Posts
edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/HWANGKANGHO | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
On January 19 2014 19:59 phodacbiet wrote: Hey, not sure if this was intended/reported before. But for some reason i can't build my hatchery here http://imgur.com/QVXkHgf It is not just that location but everywhere on that patch of land (basically everything in the picture is un-buildable). I also can't relocate my sunkens there, but creep tumors can still go down. Just a heads up im sure it should be an easy fix! Gl i love this mod I believe this area is unbuildable except for creep tumors. Also, for people who say X is streaming starbow, please send the url for people who catch the message hours later. | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
On January 19 2014 20:14 IeZaeL wrote: Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? ) Overview looks kinda crappy unfortunately. EDIT : Fixed img , oops. + Show Spoiler + 5 hatch hydra come back? | ||
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