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Starbow - Page 89

Forum Index > SC2 General
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dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
January 19 2014 09:37 GMT
#1761
GoOdy vs Losira PvT on Losira's stream.
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1842 Posts
January 19 2014 09:39 GMT
#1762
On January 19 2014 18:24 TT1 wrote:
nono me chobo; OTL
T.T

i think they need to increase the energy cost of chrono/larva inject thingy/terran chrono. imo its too easy to macro atm (mechanics aside)


Yeah I don't like how easy it is to macro as a Protoss player, it really doesn't take much to max but I don't know what can really be done ;/
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 09:50:37
January 19 2014 09:43 GMT
#1763
On January 19 2014 18:37 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2014 18:31 Qwyn wrote:
On January 19 2014 18:24 TT1 wrote:
nono me chobo; OTL
T.T

i think they need to increase the energy cost of chrono/larva inject thingy/terran chrono. imo its too easy to macro atm (mechanics aside)


I was suggesting they revamp the macro mechanics so it sort of resembles sending workers to mine in BW - just in that you have to return to do it like every 10 seconds but it's not as easy or weird feeling as it is now. Some sort of macro benefit that players have to work to get better at (sort of like inject - not really what it does just the period).

I dunno I'm not really good with ideas but I totally agree with wanting macro to be a bit harder (MBS/UUS aside).

I really love how cleanly you translated your builds to Starbow it's really impressive <3.


ty, ive been playing alot of bw recently so i sharpened up on my builds again. gives a pretty big edge b.o-wise but not as much mechanics wise

btw the reason why losira's terran is so solid is because he used to play t in bw. dont think he was a progamer tho


Yeah I know it's really cool how much is Losira's muscle memory.

Zerg feels really wonky right now in Starbow especially with gas timings I dunno it feels like everything needs to be delayed a lot. It also doesn't really feel like taking a third at an opposite nat really translates well T_T.

If you are playing in the Razer tournament I can't wait to see you pwn, damn! With how clean your builds are holy shit ahaha.

Like a lot of builds especially any sort of two hatch lair feels really, really wonky and ZvZ is really fucked since so much gas is locked up and makes spire play feel really really weird.

I think it's really cool how much more APM can be invested into engagements in this mod as opposed to SC2, and it feels like you can actually splitting forces around like in BW

Just hoping for some sort of macro mechanic adjustment.

-- Another thing that's really telling and makes me happy is how much cleaner your gateway blocks are than everyone else rofl it's so nice god you do it right. God people need to start placing buildings better ><

--- There were points in one of TT1's games against Losira on FS where it really felt like there was so much engagement potential it felt so awesome O_O! I hope to see great players produce more games like this.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
January 19 2014 09:52 GMT
#1764
im probably gonna oversleep and miss the razer tourney . its already 5am
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
January 19 2014 09:54 GMT
#1765
>< NO please! It's BO1s just power through them like a boss T_T.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 10:05:05
January 19 2014 10:03 GMT
#1766
What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish?
Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now?

Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery.
While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building.

So there is two negative effects here for zerg already.
How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time?
Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions.
Opinions?

I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed?
To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision.

For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose
1fac +1reactor.
You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it.
I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it?

The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont.
In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg.

Comments/opninions?
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 10:15:07
January 19 2014 10:12 GMT
#1767
On January 19 2014 19:03 Foxxan wrote:
What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish?
Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now?

Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery.
While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building.

So there is two negative effects here for zerg already.
How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time?
Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions.
Opinions?

I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed?
To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision.

For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose
1fac +1reactor.
You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it.
I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it?

The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont.
In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg.

Comments/opninions?


I think there's two parts that people who want macro to be harder want:

1. Making macro mechanics clean and fundamentally simpler to execute (queen inject just feels really wonky along will all the other stackable chronoboost).
2. Macro mechanics should have a short period meaning you have to go back to your base and "macro" every 20 seconds or less (something to simulate building and sending workers to mine in BW, in effect).

In order for this to work they have to be required, important mechanics instead of just "optional." For each race IMO. Problem with queen's inject mechanic right now most of all is that it feels really really weird - there's no sense of psychological "progress," or "completion," especially since the inject can "stack" and doesn't need to "pop off" to be finished - meaning the timer is sort of worthless (I can just keep spamming the timer so it's always at 90%+ and queen energy regeneration is so insane I'm never going to be able to use it to gauge my inject skill). It's also way less beneficial because having multiple hatcheries is always going to be more valuable.

As far as making fundamental, required mechanics that are essential for each race to perform at maximum potential, I have no idea...Something like - if I don't inject my hatchery/nexus/cc every blah/blah/blah seconds then my production is slower or my income is slower/faster...etc...obviously that's not an optimum idea it's just moving towards the direction of simulating BW style macro. One of the core ideas was making players have to return to their base to "macro," much like is necessary in BW with no MBS and worker rally.

Terran workers are going to have to build a lot more barracks when playing bio styles if reactors are removed - I'm down for that but ultimately playing is necessary to get a feel for it xO.

-- In fact, as far as zerg goes, delaying the queens extensively results in far cleaner builds and inject is really a "worthless mechanic," it's much more valuable for enrage/creep/nurture.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
January 19 2014 10:25 GMT
#1768
On January 19 2014 19:03 Foxxan wrote:
What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish?
Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now?

Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery.
While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building.

So there is two negative effects here for zerg already.
How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time?
Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions.
Opinions?

I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed?
To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision.

For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose
1fac +1reactor.
You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it.
I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it?

The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont.
In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg.

Comments/opninions?


i wasnt talking about game mechanics (that being said id like it if the skillcap was raised aswell), i meant that it would slow down maxing/remaxing. the early game/midd game is fine but once you hit 3/4 bases ur almost always perma maxed, all you have to do is queue units up and mass chrono
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Dragonei
Profile Joined March 2012
Spain28 Posts
January 19 2014 10:34 GMT
#1769
Starbow should be uploaded to KR/TW and Chinese servers ASAP, not uploading them which are a big big potential player due to pc bang and sc2 free arcade on tuesday is a big big mistake..
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 10:45:46
January 19 2014 10:45 GMT
#1770
On January 19 2014 19:25 TT1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2014 19:03 Foxxan wrote:
What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish?
Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now?

Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery.
While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building.

So there is two negative effects here for zerg already.
How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time?
Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions.
Opinions?

I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed?
To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision.

For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose
1fac +1reactor.
You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it.
I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it?

The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont.
In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg.

Comments/opninions?


i wasnt talking about game mechanics (that being said id like it if the skillcap was raised aswell), i meant that it would slow down maxing/remaxing. the early game/midd game is fine but once you hit 3/4 bases ur almost always perma maxed, all you have to do is queue units up and mass chrono

wouldn't it be better to lower both energy cost and the duration of those 'spells'? From the mechanics standpoint, I mean.
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
January 19 2014 10:59 GMT
#1771
Hey, not sure if this was intended/reported before. But for some reason i can't build my hatchery here

http://imgur.com/QVXkHgf

It is not just that location but everywhere on that patch of land (basically everything in the picture is un-buildable). I also can't relocate my sunkens there, but creep tumors can still go down. Just a heads up im sure it should be an easy fix! Gl i love this mod
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 11:05:42
January 19 2014 11:04 GMT
#1772
On January 19 2014 19:45 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2014 19:25 TT1 wrote:
On January 19 2014 19:03 Foxxan wrote:
What would increasing the cost in energy accomplish?
Wouldnt that make it easier to macro than it is right now?

Queens inject is the hardest of them all, at the same time the queen can only use it on the hatchery.
While toss and terran can use it on the command center, and production building.

So there is two negative effects here for zerg already.
How about increasing the cost of inject, and raise the duration at the same time?
Also, how about reducing the starting energy across the board on all macro mechanics. I feel this would make it more fair, and more tough decisions.
Opinions?

I wanna ask a question bit off topic here. What would people feel if reactors got removed?
To write alittle bit more about reactors. They are imbalanced, and doesnt provide any real decision.

For example. If you want to produce vultures from 2factories, you choose
1fac +1reactor.
You wanna produce many vikings from your starport. You put a reactor on it.
I dont see the decision here, maybe someone can enlighten me if i missed it?

The imbalance part involves in that terran, gets "free production buildings", while zerg/toss dont.
In sc2, this was "compensation" for the warpgate for toss, and extra larva for zerg.

Comments/opninions?


i wasnt talking about game mechanics (that being said id like it if the skillcap was raised aswell), i meant that it would slow down maxing/remaxing. the early game/midd game is fine but once you hit 3/4 bases ur almost always perma maxed, all you have to do is queue units up and mass chrono

wouldn't it be better to lower both energy cost and the duration of those 'spells'? From the mechanics standpoint, I mean.


i mean u can lower the energy cost/duration as much as u want but its not that hard to mass chrono (cam key + cccccccc + 11/22/33 > go back to army). i would love it if my chrono ran out every 5 secs, that way i could spam some more ^.^. the problem is MBS but theres nothing we can really do about it

but i like your idea, youre heading in the right direction. the best we can hope for is to find a way to combine MBS and challenging macro mechanics but i have no idea how wed achieve that
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 11:19:44
January 19 2014 11:14 GMT
#1773
Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? ) Overview looks kinda crappy unfortunately.
EDIT : Fixed img , oops.
[image loading]
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
ganil
Profile Joined August 2009
253 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 11:17:37
January 19 2014 11:16 GMT
#1774
On January 19 2014 20:04 TT1 wrote:
but i like your idea, youre heading in the right direction. the best we can hope for is to find a way to combine MBS and challenging macro mechanics but i have no idea how wed achieve that


Some random idea.

Increase every production time.
Make chronoboost a "free" ability.
The chronoboost duration should be equal to the time your facility take to build a unit.
Using chronoboost allow you to go back to your old "fast" production rate.

That way you select everything with mbs and pick a unit, then you have to manualy click on everything to get your old production rate.
It emulates the old way of producing units. But I'm not sure it's a great way to do it.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
January 19 2014 11:20 GMT
#1775
On January 19 2014 20:14 IeZaeL wrote:
Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? )

[img]


I'd definitely play the map, not sure why it has to replace anything though. I don't think there are that many maps yet.
IeZaeL
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy991 Posts
January 19 2014 11:23 GMT
#1776
On January 19 2014 20:20 Dodgin wrote:
I'd definitely play the map, not sure why it has to replace anything though. I don't think there are that many maps yet.

As i made bloody ridge , it seems like macro is so easy on that map. i think it might remain as a starbow map , but not as an official tournament map.
Author of Coda and Eastwatch.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
January 19 2014 11:27 GMT
#1777
On January 19 2014 20:14 IeZaeL wrote:
Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? ) Overview looks kinda crappy unfortunately.
EDIT : Fixed img , oops.

Damn, amazing!

Nice work man, Destination was among my favorite BW maps at the time I really followed BW. So many epic matches I saw on that map, I hope that you will achieve the same in Starbow.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
phlebas
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany60 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 11:48:35
January 19 2014 11:27 GMT
#1778
HWANGKANGHO is playing a Starbow TvT right now.

edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/HWANGKANGHO
"i once thought i was watching a pvp but it turns out it was two geckos mating" - riptide
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 11:35:06
January 19 2014 11:33 GMT
#1779
On January 19 2014 19:59 phodacbiet wrote:
Hey, not sure if this was intended/reported before. But for some reason i can't build my hatchery here

http://imgur.com/QVXkHgf

It is not just that location but everywhere on that patch of land (basically everything in the picture is un-buildable). I also can't relocate my sunkens there, but creep tumors can still go down. Just a heads up im sure it should be an easy fix! Gl i love this mod


I believe this area is unbuildable except for creep tumors.

Also, for people who say X is streaming starbow, please send the url for people who catch the message hours later.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
StutteR
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1903 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-19 11:38:03
January 19 2014 11:37 GMT
#1780
On January 19 2014 20:14 IeZaeL wrote:
Guys , i finished Neo Destination. Mereel made the layout and i textured it. What do you think , would you like to play it on Starbow ( maybe as a replacement of Bloody Ridge ? ) Overview looks kinda crappy unfortunately.
EDIT : Fixed img , oops.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



5 hatch hydra come back?
`~` | effOrt Movie sKyHigh forever & SEn
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