EPTOn January 15 2014 21:15 iHirO wrote:
Alien idea for the Starbow reddit:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6d6xHWs.png)
+ Show Spoiler [Larger Version] +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t9z8moU.png)
Alien idea for the Starbow reddit:
+ Show Spoiler [Larger Version] +
The arche isn't visible at all
Starbow - Page 41
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
The arche isn't visible at all | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
More like this then? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ecDSIB1.png) | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26058 Posts
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
I don't like having to guess what my opponent is doing, especially in PvZ if I want to go some other tech route than Stargate. | ||
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iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
On January 15 2014 21:51 Existor wrote: That's a bit better, but I think, arche should be a bit more separated from him? Not exactly sure what you mean, this was my starting design. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uxF6HE8.png) | ||
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LloydPGM
85 Posts
 I'll play it more and try to give some feedback about balance which seems to be okay even if i'm not sure about those sc2 stuff like reactor and queens. On January 15 2014 21:59 dani` wrote: Any reason why Protoss needs an Observatory (50/100, 40s) to build Observers, whose build time is 35 and their movement speed is 1.74? In SC2 Observer build time is 30 with 1.875 speed, no Observatory required. It's already hard to scout without Hallucination / Mothership Core, but now Observer is nerfed insanely hard as well o_O Why? I don't like having to guess what my opponent is doing, especially in PvZ if I want to go some other tech route than Stargate. Welcome to a genuine RTS bro. Note that the game is made so you are not especially in danger without early obs. Also you can scout with probe. Obs is not "nerfed" in this mode, it's just like in BW. Just play the mod a little more and please avoid to compare with sc2bullshit. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Any reason why Protoss needs an Observatory (50/100, 40s) to build Observers, whose build time is 35 and their movement speed is 1.74? In SC2 Observer build time is 30 with 1.875 speed, no Observatory required. It's already hard to scout without Hallucination / Mothership Core, but now Observer is nerfed insanely hard as well o_O Why? We included the Observatory mainly to maintain the BW balance between P and T. For a while, we did not have it in the game, and that made Observers come very quickly. Investing in early Spider mines did not feel as useful, neither as defence or as an offensive tool. P would have an Observer in time anyway, and got that tech for "free", which allowed them to invest even easier into Reavers. Now there is a trade-off. Get fast Reaver tech or fast Observer tech. @Scouting + Show Spoiler + I don't like having to guess what my opponent is doing, especially in PvZ if I want to go some other tech route than Stargate. We wanted to open up other tech routes for P to get information. In BW PvZ, its very common to go Corsair every game just for the crucial scouting information. Stalkers in their current version are fast-moving skirmish units who starts with a weak Blink. They also have an ability to see up cliffs, which means they can scout the enemy easier. (And they are also quite fine vs Mutas) This intends to allow P other alternative tech routes. For the same reason, Sentinel at Stargate has a weak detection ability. Which allows P an alternative tech route, especially in PvT, where Observers are very crucial in BW. Sentinels are not as good detectors as Observers, but can still get the job done kinda ok. We also considerer to give SC2 Hallucination to High Templars, instead of the current BW version. This would enable more scouting options. But as of right now, we are not making any design or balance changes, since the game is so young. We focus mainly on fixing bugs and listen to the feedback from all players and observers! Later on will we start to look at areas of the gameplay to improve. | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On January 15 2014 22:15 Kabel wrote: @Why Observatory? + Show Spoiler + Any reason why Protoss needs an Observatory (50/100, 40s) to build Observers, whose build time is 35 and their movement speed is 1.74? In SC2 Observer build time is 30 with 1.875 speed, no Observatory required. It's already hard to scout without Hallucination / Mothership Core, but now Observer is nerfed insanely hard as well o_O Why? We included the Observatory mainly to maintain the BW balance between P and T. For a while, we did not have it in the game, and that made Observers come very quickly. Investing in early Spider mines did not feel as useful, neither as defence or as an offensive tool. P would have an Observer in time anyway, and got that tech for "free", which allowed them to invest even easier into Reavers. Now there is a trade-off. Get fast Reaver tech or fast Observer tech. @Scouting + Show Spoiler + I don't like having to guess what my opponent is doing, especially in PvZ if I want to go some other tech route than Stargate. We wanted to open up other tech routes for P to get information. In BW PvZ, its very common to go Corsair every game just for the crucial scouting information. Stalkers in their current version are fast-moving skirmish units who starts with a weak Blink. They also have an ability to see up cliffs, which means they can scout the enemy easier. (And they are also quite fine vs Mutas) This intends to allow P other alternative tech routes. For the same reason, Sentinel at Stargate has a weak detection ability. Which allows P an alternative tech route, especially in PvT, where Observers are very crucial in BW. Sentinels are not as good detectors as Observers, but can still get the job done kinda ok. We also considerer to give SC2 Hallucination to High Templars, instead of the current BW version. This would enable more scouting options. But as of right now, we are not making any design or balance changes, since the game is so young. We focus mainly on fixing bugs and listen to the feedback from all players and observers! Later on will we start to look at areas of the gameplay to improve. Thanks for the answer. I might toy with Stalkers a bit, though getting one into a Zerg main base with them having some creep spread seems a bit coinflippy. I suppose Corsair is by far the most reliable. Making a Stargate only for 1 of those seems such a waste, though with the insane gas income this game gives it's probably not the biggest of deals. Too bad, I always liked early Observers / Hallucination scouts | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On January 15 2014 19:12 NapkinBox wrote: What do you mean? It's done in SC2BW, though. That isn't a good system. You cheat cheat it by boxing and quickly issuing a command. It depends on VERY little latency to work properly. Not to mention that this mod aims to be accessible for sc2 players. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On January 15 2014 22:07 iHirO wrote: Not exactly sure what you mean, this was my starting design. I mean, move bow a bit more to the right. | ||
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NorthQuab
United States23 Posts
On January 15 2014 22:35 decemberscalm wrote: Not to mention that this mod aims to be accessible for sc2 players. Yeah, i dont think you can justify making the mod arbitrarily harder by saying it makes it more fun to watch and heightens skill cap. Nobody except TL'ers or brood war elitists would accept that. Brood war was fun to watch because of the appreciation factor of how hard it was to play it well, but it wasnt fun for me(and many others) to play competitively because of how hard it was to control everything with the archaic pathing and selection limits. That is probably the reason the majority of people who played brood war played only/mostly ums maps(heavens defense ftw) I like starbow because its fun, trying to be brood war 2, the new age esport instead of a fun mod isnt the way to go based on my experiences and the common opinions i see floating around on the internets. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Many things are well thought out, I only dislike the sort of philosophy that every decision has to be meaningful. It goes a little too far with this I think. Warpgate or normal gates, what to chrono etc. It's adding a bit too many little nuisance decisions I think. I also think it feels a little too sluggish when playing, hard to tell exactly what that is but don't know really. Anyway idea is cool, I think I would like playing this less than sc2 just because it's too cumbersome for my taste. I do think it would be a better game to watch at high levels, correcting some of the flaws sc2 has. | ||
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plgElwood
Germany518 Posts
It has to be good, otherwise players wont accept it. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
On January 15 2014 23:04 NorthQuab wrote: Yeah, i dont think you can justify making the mod arbitrarily harder by saying it makes it more fun to watch and heightens skill cap. Nobody except TL'ers or brood war elitists would accept that. Brood war was fun to watch because of the appreciation factor of how hard it was to play it well, but it wasnt fun for me(and many others) to play competitively because of how hard it was to control everything with the archaic pathing and selection limits. That is probably the reason the majority of people who played brood war played only/mostly ums maps(heavens defense ftw) I like starbow because its fun, trying to be brood war 2, the new age esport instead of a fun mod isnt the way to go based on my experiences and the common opinions i see floating around on the internets. Agreed. Broodwar may be the "better" game than SC2, but SC2 has always been more fun to play for me purely because of the controls. For D/D+ level players, BW was so mechanically demanding that players were just struggling to keep up with their macro and actual strategy was almost never the deciding factor. SC2's controls are good enough that they enable even mediocre players to play meaningful games with some strategic value, not only a contest of who can click faster (being faster still helps of course). For this reason, I am against introducing artificial UI limitations like limited selection or no smartcast. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On January 15 2014 23:20 Squat wrote: Difficulty should come from complexity in the gameplay, not a clunky UI. In the case of Irradiate mentioned earlier, I'd much rather see Irradiate nerfed than smartcast removed. Maybe if it was like plague, it deals heavy damage but does not kill the unit? Yes its a good suggestion, and something we have been considering for a while. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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