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On January 14 2014 07:53 superpanda27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 07:42 Izerman wrote:On January 14 2014 07:35 avilo wrote:
Quick feedback before i play more: very fun mod to play.
If anything, this mod should show blizzard that they can implement things like 0 supply mines, cheaper/lower cost/lower supply tanks, and high ground advantage.
It's a bit disgusting how blizzard could have implemented high ground advantage ages ago, yet here it is in your guys's mod.
I'll write more when i play it more, but this is already more fun than SC2 which is really sad to say. I've only played TvP on this so far but it's 200x better than SC2 TvP. Battles and harrassment all over the place and mech does not suck. Well, the mech is basically bw mech, so of course it doesn't suck. agreed. you tried this?
DETONATE
The current "method" used in the game to overcome this, is a new ability on Spider mines called Detonate.
It allows the Terran player to launch the Spider mine towards an enemy target within range 5.25. (Not vs hovering units)
When the ability is used, the missile is shot immediately. Its not 1.9 seconds delay.
This means that if Hydras, Marines or Stalkers, with attack range 5, A-move into a mine field, it is still possible for the Terran player to launch mines towards them by manual control. But it is a small window of time. And probably hard as hell.
Upgraded Dragoons have attack range 6. Which means that the ability is too short to be activated on them, unless they move too close by accident or when trying to detect where the mine is.
Vultures can however move up close, plant mines, and as soon as they are planted, use Detonate ability to avoid the 1.9 second unburrow time. If properly microed, they become more efficient.
This is probably not optimal either. I have never seen it used in a game. (Maybe because its too hard, or because no one knows about it.)
We will start to fine tune the values for next patch. Either with or without Detonate. Would just prefer to get some feedback on that ability from players. How does it feel for the gameplay? Weird? Fun?
I think like your in-quote quote says, it may be a little too hard to pull off, but then again I don't think Avilo or a lot people know that the spider-mine has that kind of ability. It is good now that spider-mines are explained how they work on the front page. Another thing to add to the front page is the Starbow wiki at http://starbow.wikia.com/wiki/Starbow_Wiki and updating the thread link on the wiki. Also for some people edit what units are in Starbow and what they can do on there.
Oh that was my mistake.. will fix!
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
Quite a few people have mentioned wanting to put money into a Starbow tourney.
I would contribute for sure, why don't we start a Kickstarter with defined aims and whatnot, to get a pro level tournament as an advert for the mod/its potential?
Perhaps not current pros, but I'd focus on guys who are still involved in the scene/dissatisfied with SC2 currently. In others words Idra and guys like that.
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On January 14 2014 08:00 Wombat_NI wrote:
Quite a few people have mentioned wanting to put money into a Starbow tourney.
I would contribute for sure, why don't we start a Kickstarter with defined aims and whatnot, to get a pro level tournament as an advert for the mod/its potential?
Perhaps not current pros, but I'd focus on guys who are still involved in the scene/dissatisfied with SC2 currently. In others words Idra and guys like that.
Why not current pros?
I would definitely contribute to a kickstarted tourney, but I don't agree with you on excluding SC2 pros. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Northern Ireland26505 Posts
You can ask them for sure, as to what the response would be I'm not sure.
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Why is Stasis Field so slow to cast? Plus it's a projectile now?
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For anyone who has played can you comment on the level of mechanics required compared to SC2 and BW, thanks.
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Amazing stuff. Thank you guys for doing some of Blizzard's job. Is there a paypal we can donate to?
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It's quite fun indeed, judging from a handful of games I played today. Defender's advantage, lack of (early) Warpgate and other tweaks seem to work out pretty well. One minor thing I didn't really like was the colorful Chronoboost icon instead of the default one. I cannot seem to be able to tell if I have Chrono without actually looking at it. Not necessarily bad, but the default bright blue one kinda pops when it's available. I know you basically always have Chrono now with it being only 15 but anyway the default icon looks much better in my opinion. Since it's basically the same thing still, why change the icon ;(
Also what's up with units starting to wander around when standing still in order to spread o_O Looks silly as hell, isn't there some more elegant solution to it, like higher collision size or something -- i.e., so they are always spread out, not walking clumped and then spread out when idling.
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On January 14 2014 08:06 Arco wrote:
Why is Stasis Field so slow to cast? Plus it's a projectile now?
To make it possible to dodge. Also there was a small cast delay time on Arbiter in BW fro stasis. (It froze a little bit before casting).
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On January 14 2014 08:22 dani` wrote:
It's quite fun indeed, judging from a handful of games I played today. Defender's advantage, lack of (early) Warpgate and other tweaks seem to work out pretty well. One minor thing I didn't really like was the colorful Chronoboost icon instead of the default one. I cannot seem to be able to tell if I have Chrono without actually looking at it. Not necessarily bad, but the default bright blue one kinda pops when it's available. I know you basically always have Chrono now with it being only 15 but anyway the default icon looks much better in my opinion. Since it's basically the same thing still, why change the icon ;(
Also what's up with units starting to wander around when standing still in order to spread o_O Looks silly as hell, isn't there some more elegant solution to it, like higher collision size or something -- i.e., so they are always spread out, not walking clumped and then spread out when idling.
A higher collision size would change other things as well. Like not being able to fit through holes in a structure wall you would, among other things. I don't particularly find this an issue, but a formation button like in Age of Empires is what I think you would want. Personally I wouldn't want that.
Also is it possible to reduce the size of the Viper's Nest? That thing is huge. Unless that is just a placeholder until something better.
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You guys got featured on Kotaku... Congrats
Kotaku
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On January 14 2014 08:43 superpanda27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 08:22 dani` wrote:
It's quite fun indeed, judging from a handful of games I played today. Defender's advantage, lack of (early) Warpgate and other tweaks seem to work out pretty well. One minor thing I didn't really like was the colorful Chronoboost icon instead of the default one. I cannot seem to be able to tell if I have Chrono without actually looking at it. Not necessarily bad, but the default bright blue one kinda pops when it's available. I know you basically always have Chrono now with it being only 15 but anyway the default icon looks much better in my opinion. Since it's basically the same thing still, why change the icon ;(
Also what's up with units starting to wander around when standing still in order to spread o_O Looks silly as hell, isn't there some more elegant solution to it, like higher collision size or something -- i.e., so they are always spread out, not walking clumped and then spread out when idling. A higher collision size would change other things as well. Like not being able to fit through holes in a structure wall you would, among other things. I don't particularly find this an issue, but a formation button like in Age of Empires is what I think you would want. Personally I wouldn't want that. Also is it possible to reduce the size of the Viper's Nest? That thing is huge. Unless that is just a placeholder until something better.
The collision would then not apply to buildings, just your own units or something but yeah it was just a random suggestion that popped up  I don't actually want a formation button, I just found it very odd my units started to wander around when they are idle. Looks damn weird to me, and I don't really see the point anyway. It seems like a very forced way to get units to spread out. Just let players use their micro to spread their army, or pay for it when moving into Tanks / Storm etc clumped up. Or implement it so units will kinda spread when moving, like bumping into each other a bit and spacing out or something I don't know
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Lol, what is this, the hype train is too stronk xD Holy shit!
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@Regarding new icons in Starbow
Spells or abilities who work different in Starbow compared to SC2 or BW has some kind of new or modified icon. This is a way to make players aware of something being different, and (hopefully) read the tooltip.
But a few icons are actually changed to new ones because they just look badass. Like the Overlord drop-upgrade.
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On January 14 2014 09:04 Kabel wrote:
@Regarding new icons in Starbow
Spells or abilities who work different in Starbow compared to SC2 or BW has some kind of new or modified icon. This is a way to make players aware of something being different, and (hopefully) read the tooltip.
But a few icons are actually changed to new ones because they just look badass. Like the Overlord drop-upgrade.
Or the ling speed, damn i like that icon.
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Make something popular enough and Blizzard will copy it into their core product. They've done it over and over with UI functionality in WoW - keep that hype train going so they'll be forced to implement some of the excellent ideas from this mod.
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Been playing a ton of it today and it's lots of fun, hoping this continues to grow.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgflip.com/63uzx.jpg)
Seriously though, I played it last night and it's dead on. This is what SC2 should have been. I'm honestly amazed at how much you were willing to cut down from your original mod (oh, i remember it... haha).
If you want to try to make this a cool indie game though, Kickstarter the project. It's obvious you know what you're doing in terms of mechanics and balance, so I wouldn't think it's that far off for people to want you to make your own Indie RTS based on Starcraft mechanics and ideas.
Be the LoL of Starcraft, for the love of god, please.
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On January 14 2014 07:24 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 07:10 RampancyTW wrote:On January 14 2014 07:01 Hider wrote: So I guess it might be "fun" from the player upgrading's perspective, but it doesn't really seem to be clear what your units are capable of to your opponent, and because there are so many different upgrades I imagine it's difficult to reliably predict. Can you give me a practical example? Having to research Consume, for example. You might spot a Defiler popping from an outlying expansion, but you might not know whether or not that's a window of opportunity for a snipe or a death trap in the next 20 seconds. First one that comes to mind off the top of my head, but the 120498124 Terran upgrades that I can't even keep track of or some non-specific ones that come to mind. In Sc2 they have all these useless tech starport ups. In Sbow I think there are 3 new starport upgrades + upgrades from BW. - Range upgrade is needed on barrack for bio due to the Dragoon pressure thing. - Matrix has to be an upgrade. Otherwise it becomes too powerfull early game. - Consume, perhaps its not neccesary to be an upgrade, but it was like that in BW, and we prefer to keep BW as a core (for balance purposes) unless we believe we can improve the playing experience by making some changes. I, do however, agree that if it had no uninteded balance consequences to make Defilers start with it, then it would be fine to give it to them for free. - Terran has an ebay-upgrade to seperate scan energy cost from macromechanics. This is needed, otherwise terran wouldn't be able to use macromechanics as much in the mid/late game as scan become very important during this stage. Further, I don't see at all how this upgrade makes the game less fluent. Thinking about anything else?
I'd say at first glance the reaper, banshee, dropship and viking upgrades are all kinda weird and unnecessary. These are not units you build in great numbers, rather balance them around not needing upgrades at all. Why are there so damn many range upgrades? Also I dont think every caster needs to have 2 researchable spells + a useless energy upgrade just because BW did it.
Overall I just think there are a little too many ideas and gimmicks in the current state of starbow (manually detonating mines, looking at you). Its still an amazing mod though, and with some good polish it could very well challenge SC2 or at least Blizzards vision of where the game should be going.
On January 14 2014 10:05 hoby2000 wrote:
Seriously though, I played it last night and it's dead on. This is what SC2 should have been. I'm honestly amazed at how much you were willing to cut down from your original mod (oh, i remember it... haha).
If you want to try to make this a cool indie game though, Kickstarter the project. It's obvious you know what you're doing in terms of mechanics and balance, so I wouldn't think it's that far off for people to want you to make your own Indie RTS based on Starcraft mechanics and ideas.
Be the LoL of Starcraft, for the love of god, please.
I think you underestimate the amount of work it takes to create an RTS game from scratch...
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EPT
