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On January 14 2014 12:07 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 11:59 Parcelleus wrote:
I checked out the Romsom vs Dirtybag (PvT).
-Vultures look way overpowered.
-Just massing of dragoons , I didnt like it at all
-Unit compositions were not varied and were mainly one or 2 units
-Much prefer the units and micro of sc2 to starbow
-Feels like if you are diehard BW fan you may like this mod
-Overall I much prefer SC2 HOTS , oh well I had a look
As it stands, Dragoons supply efficient and do well against everything besides siege-mode tanks. If they go bio, make goons + zealots. If they go mech, you need goons to deal with vultures. If they go air for some reason, goons are the best ground to air. The Starbow protoss army is Goons with a sprinkling of support.
TIL Starbow Dragoons = SC2 Marines.
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That game betwen Sage and HTOMario was so insane god dammit this game is so good
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Can i play Starbow at Starcraft 2 Starter Edition?
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Northern Ireland27456 Posts
We're getting to the stage we need a 'recommended Starbow VoDs' thread
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On January 14 2014 13:03 elmerpogs wrote:
Can i play Starbow at Starcraft 2 Starter Edition?
Not right now I think. Starter edition only has limited access to certain Arcade games, so you'll have to wait until 2.1 hits to play Starbow.
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On January 14 2014 12:53 AstrOtoss wrote:
That game betwen Sage and HTOMario was so insane god dammit this game is so good
Is there a link to said game?
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On January 14 2014 12:30 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 12:07 CannonsNCarriers wrote:On January 14 2014 11:59 Parcelleus wrote:
I checked out the Romsom vs Dirtybag (PvT).
-Vultures look way overpowered.
-Just massing of dragoons , I didnt like it at all
-Unit compositions were not varied and were mainly one or 2 units
-Much prefer the units and micro of sc2 to starbow
-Feels like if you are diehard BW fan you may like this mod
-Overall I much prefer SC2 HOTS , oh well I had a look
As it stands, Dragoons supply efficient and do well against everything besides siege-mode tanks. If they go bio, make goons + zealots. If they go mech, you need goons to deal with vultures. If they go air for some reason, goons are the best ground to air. The Starbow protoss army is Goons with a sprinkling of support. TIL Starbow Dragoons = SC2 Marines.
I feel like lurkers beat goons really well, same with hydras.
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The Youtube video of Starter Edition says you can have access to all arcade games... so Starbow is not an exception I guess. I dont have SC2 but the news that hit TL about Starbow gave me nerd chills... By the way im installing Starter Edition right now.
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On January 14 2014 04:25 -stOpSKY- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 04:12 deacon.frost wrote:
Well, I hope this overhype will not shatter the sc2 player base. Because that would be the worse possible effect you could ever do for the sc2 ;-) What does that even mean? If Starbow turns out to be better than SC2 why shouldn't it shatter the player base and gain popularity? I think they really missed the mark with SC2 and it became even worse in HoTS. I would be all for having a BW based unit game with a mix of BW and SC2 mechanics.
I actually think hots is better then wol, not worse. Hots didn't make sc2 worse by any means (just watch last 6+ months of wol). Obviously I wish they would do more and better but I doubt it. I really wish blizzard would look at stuff like this and actually implement it. But they will do the same thing they did before they might acknowledge it (Wow yeah that's a great idea, we might look into it a little, but we like the design of sc2 right now).
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On January 14 2014 13:07 Wombat_NI wrote:
We're getting to the stage we need a 'recommended Starbow VoDs' thread
Could use http://www.reddit.com/r/starbow for now.
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Northern Ireland27456 Posts
I really dislike reddit but I shall make an exception in this one instance, thanks man.
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On January 14 2014 13:36 Wombat_NI wrote:
I really dislike reddit but I shall make an exception in this one instance, thanks man.
I feel more community figures hang out in reddit than TL
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On January 14 2014 13:13 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 13:11 xAdra wrote:On January 14 2014 12:53 AstrOtoss wrote:
That game betwen Sage and HTOMario was so insane god dammit this game is so good Is there a link to said game? http://www.twitch.tv/zlfreebird#
Thank you!
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On January 14 2014 13:47 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 13:36 Wombat_NI wrote:
I really dislike reddit but I shall make an exception in this one instance, thanks man. I feel more community figures hang out in reddit than TL
Its harder for one to three people to hijack a thread in reddit with negative non-sense.
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I like how they medivac works a lot better than ground medics. Is there any reason you chose to make implement dropships and medics instead of just using the medivac?
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On January 14 2014 11:58 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 11:50 Alacast wrote:On January 14 2014 10:47 superpanda27 wrote:On January 14 2014 10:43 Alacast wrote:On January 14 2014 10:41 Destructicon wrote:On January 14 2014 10:37 Alacast wrote:
Am I crazy, or are most dps values significantly lower in BoW than SC2? I think the units have comparable damage but slower attack speed, which does indeed result in less DPS. This + tendency of units in Starbow to spread out a bit, is there to offset the extreme killing efficiency of the SC2 engine, allows more time to micro and for the better player to distinguish himself via micro and army control. Thank you -- in watching a few of these Axiom videos over the last few days, that was a very strong impression. I have always felt changing the damage values in SC2 alone would fix a lot of the perceived problems. Except for the inherent problems that Protoss design has like early warpgates (as opposed to Starbow pushing it to tier 3) and the map maker's nightmare: forcefields. I don't think FF or WG have been proven to be objectively bad. Some people don't like them, I understand, but they are unique and original mechanics. ... which make balancing REALLY hard and mapdesign very one-dimensional.
@Alacast ^what Swisslink said. Forcefields really hinder map making. The idea of WG is not inherently bad, but in other threads and posts about warpgate is because of it it has had the effect of making gateway units weaker among other things. Protoss design is a cycle of bandaids to make itself work with the way other races work and its own race works.
I'm very interested in the way Starbow places warpgate, granted I haven't seen anyone really use it quite yet. There are plus and minuses between gateway and warpgate, the way it should be in SC2. You trade off being able to produce dragoons and other gateway units faster for the ability to warp-in units closer or inside an opponents base.
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On January 14 2014 14:05 superpanda27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 11:58 Swisslink wrote:On January 14 2014 11:50 Alacast wrote:On January 14 2014 10:47 superpanda27 wrote:On January 14 2014 10:43 Alacast wrote:On January 14 2014 10:41 Destructicon wrote:On January 14 2014 10:37 Alacast wrote:
Am I crazy, or are most dps values significantly lower in BoW than SC2? I think the units have comparable damage but slower attack speed, which does indeed result in less DPS. This + tendency of units in Starbow to spread out a bit, is there to offset the extreme killing efficiency of the SC2 engine, allows more time to micro and for the better player to distinguish himself via micro and army control. Thank you -- in watching a few of these Axiom videos over the last few days, that was a very strong impression. I have always felt changing the damage values in SC2 alone would fix a lot of the perceived problems. Except for the inherent problems that Protoss design has like early warpgates (as opposed to Starbow pushing it to tier 3) and the map maker's nightmare: forcefields. I don't think FF or WG have been proven to be objectively bad. Some people don't like them, I understand, but they are unique and original mechanics. ... which make balancing REALLY hard and mapdesign very one-dimensional. @Alacast ^what Swisslink said. Forcefields really hinder map making. The idea of WG is not inherently bad, but in other threads and posts about warpgate is because of it it has had the effect of making gateway units weaker among other things. Protoss design is a cycle of bandaids to make itself work with the way other races work and its own race works. I'm very interested in the way Starbow places warpgate, granted I haven't seen anyone really use it quite yet. There are plus and minuses between gateway and warpgate, the way it should be in SC2. You trade off being able to produce dragoons and other gateway units faster for the ability to warp-in units closer or inside an opponents base.
I can appreciate what you're saying about WG/GW differences. I don't really understand why there is an option for you to alternate in SC2 currently, and I think it could use so tweaking.
With regards to FF, I think it can limit map making, but I think the strategies will evolve map by map. Theoretically a map with large chokes could still be viable but would force Protoss to make more sentries if they want to rely heavily on FF which could cut into their unit count. This may force their hand into a smaller range of options, but as recent Proleague matches have demonstrated, players can adapt quickly to new maps and generate novel strategies. I still thing SC2 is far too young for any definitive claims regarding the current state of race design to be made. Protoss / Zerg are extremely far removed from the 'traditional' RTS game-play mode, but that doesn't make them bad. It will just take getting used to.
That's all I'll say on this for now, and I hope Starbow continues to enjoy great success. As I said, the reduced damage seems to be a gigantic change to the core gameplay which I heartily support. Whether the addition changes are necessary to 'fix' SC2, to me, remains uncertain, and only more play in both games can make those comparisons possible down the road. Another aside is the sheer number of spells/upgrades which augment various units which I feel convolutes a simple yet flexible approach to the game. I am confident this will work itself out with time and best of luck!
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On January 14 2014 10:08 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 07:24 Hider wrote:On January 14 2014 07:10 RampancyTW wrote:On January 14 2014 07:01 Hider wrote: So I guess it might be "fun" from the player upgrading's perspective, but it doesn't really seem to be clear what your units are capable of to your opponent, and because there are so many different upgrades I imagine it's difficult to reliably predict. Can you give me a practical example? Having to research Consume, for example. You might spot a Defiler popping from an outlying expansion, but you might not know whether or not that's a window of opportunity for a snipe or a death trap in the next 20 seconds. First one that comes to mind off the top of my head, but the 120498124 Terran upgrades that I can't even keep track of or some non-specific ones that come to mind. In Sc2 they have all these useless tech starport ups. In Sbow I think there are 3 new starport upgrades + upgrades from BW. - Range upgrade is needed on barrack for bio due to the Dragoon pressure thing. - Matrix has to be an upgrade. Otherwise it becomes too powerfull early game. - Consume, perhaps its not neccesary to be an upgrade, but it was like that in BW, and we prefer to keep BW as a core (for balance purposes) unless we believe we can improve the playing experience by making some changes. I, do however, agree that if it had no uninteded balance consequences to make Defilers start with it, then it would be fine to give it to them for free. - Terran has an ebay-upgrade to seperate scan energy cost from macromechanics. This is needed, otherwise terran wouldn't be able to use macromechanics as much in the mid/late game as scan become very important during this stage. Further, I don't see at all how this upgrade makes the game less fluent. Thinking about anything else? I'd say at first glance the reaper, banshee, dropship and viking upgrades are all kinda weird and unnecessary. These are not units you build in great numbers, rather balance them around not needing upgrades at all. Why are there so damn many range upgrades? Also I dont think every caster needs to have 2 researchable spells + a useless energy upgrade just because BW did it. Overall I just think there are a little too many ideas and gimmicks in the current state of starbow (manually detonating mines, looking at you). Its still an amazing mod though, and with some good polish it could very well challenge SC2 or at least Blizzards vision of where the game should be going. Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 10:05 hoby2000 wrote:
Seriously though, I played it last night and it's dead on. This is what SC2 should have been. I'm honestly amazed at how much you were willing to cut down from your original mod (oh, i remember it... haha).
If you want to try to make this a cool indie game though, Kickstarter the project. It's obvious you know what you're doing in terms of mechanics and balance, so I wouldn't think it's that far off for people to want you to make your own Indie RTS based on Starcraft mechanics and ideas.
Be the LoL of Starcraft, for the love of god, please. I think you underestimate the amount of work it takes to create an RTS game from scratch...
Who said I was saying do it from scratch? And while I know it takes a long time to make a game in general, I think this could gain more popularity if he figured out how to make it stand alone. Because then Blizzard doesn't just absorb this dude into balance design and ruin him as I know they will.
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EPT
