EPTIf banelings are too weak you could increase their health a bit, or give them a late-game speed bonus, when counters are already in place. (irradiate and storm?)
Starbow - Page 183
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
If banelings are too weak you could increase their health a bit, or give them a late-game speed bonus, when counters are already in place. (irradiate and storm?) | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On February 14 2014 06:32 Grumbels wrote: But no matter how slow banelings are, you can always use them as landmines, anti-ramp&zergling defense and carpet bombs. I think we should keep the banelings as is, but think about a reduction in speed. This is the simplest solution and doesn't require new abilities. (and make banelings hatchery-tech again) If banelings are too weak you could increase their health a bit, or give them a late-game speed bonus, when counters are already in place. (irradiate and storm?) baneling landmines are near useless outside of the opening stage, because of Obs and Vessel. And even in the early game I think rushing lurkers and just using their passive mode is better for traps, since the opponent does not have to walk directly over them. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
On February 14 2014 06:18 SCST wrote: Ghosts could also deal quite well with Banelings with snipe in combination with the slow spell they have Ghosts don't have snipe in starbow. Which is something I have been whining about ... | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
unlimited unit selection is rly strong on mutas without sv :x grml xD | ||
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Vehk
United States151 Posts
I wouldn't make the cast range longer than the cast range for psi storm though, seeing as how HT no longer has feedback. Equal or maybe one lesser range than psi storm would be a good range for snipe as then the P might have a chance to counter micro the ghost by targeting it down with (admittedly a lot, 8 or so shots depending on upgrades) of goons. I think it's worth tossing the ability on the ghost and see how it interacts with both HTs and banelings. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On February 14 2014 07:57 Vehk wrote: I like the idea for snipe. If Ghost gets a snipe that does say 80 damage to light units then it can be used to pick off banelings, HTs, and enemy ghosts. Make it 50 energy and then the Terran player has a choice of whether to use shock or snipe for particular situations. This would help Terran counter banelings and give Terran another option for dealing with HTs besides EMP on the science vessel. I wouldn't make the cast range longer than the cast range for psi storm though, seeing as how HT no longer has feedback. Equal or maybe one lesser range than psi storm would be a good range for snipe as then the P might have a chance to counter micro the ghost by targeting it down with (admittedly a lot) of goons. I think it's worth tossing the ability on the ghost and see how it interacts with both HTs and banelings. But HTs dont have feedback too :\ I dont wanna see snipe, really. | ||
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Vehk
United States151 Posts
On February 14 2014 07:59 StarscreamG1 wrote: But HTs dont have feedback too :\ I dont wanna see snipe, really. I mentioned that in my post. The snipe ability would have to have shorter range than storm in order for it to not simply erase HTs from the map. Full disclosure, I play Protoss, so I would kind of hate it too. But currently I feel like storm is pretty strong anyway. The way I see it, this is still the Beta and this is the time to experiment (for all I know the devs might have already had snipe on the ghost at some point and removed it for one reason or another, maybe for the very reason that it would hard counter HTs.) | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 14 2014 07:28 Grumbels wrote: I think adding snipe is harmless enough. A fourth ability wouldn't feel too cluttered on the ghost, the players are likely already familiar with snipe and if it's broken you can just nerf/remove it. Exactly. I think that it would add more uses for the Ghost and it would be good addition without breaking anything. It could have 6 or 7 range, same cost as in SC2, and do 50/40/30 damage to small/medium/large units. Ghosts definitely can be more useful than they currently are. | ||
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WarpTV
205 Posts
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On February 14 2014 09:09 WarpTV wrote: Reapers are too strong vs many BW builds example pls :O | ||
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Booom3
Sweden11 Posts
On February 14 2014 00:24 Hider wrote: What about this solution? - Implement Dirtybag's/Foxxans baneling speed solution (specific numbers can be adjusted/discussed) - Change banelings damage on top of that Baneling damage stats suggestion - Banelings damage reduced to 8+8 vs light from 18+18 vs light. - It reduces armor of units it hits by -3 for 20 seconds. Advantage of implementing both changes at the same time; - Will make banelings more fun to micro (hopefully) - Give players counterplay options instead of "just splitting". - Reduce unforgvingness of playing against banelings as Stimmed Marines now die to 3 banelings hits instead of just one. - Solves the Mass banelings issue (where banelings scale too well). The downside here is that it is quite a big change to the Baneling, which could be quite unintutiive. I think this would be a great change. I support it. | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On February 14 2014 00:24 Hider wrote: What about this solution? - Implement Dirtybag's/Foxxans baneling speed solution (specific numbers can be adjusted/discussed) - Change banelings damage on top of that Baneling damage stats suggestion - Banelings damage reduced to 8+8 vs light from 18+18 vs light. - It reduces armor of units it hits by -3 for 20 seconds. Advantage of implementing both changes at the same time; - Will make banelings more fun to micro (hopefully) - Give players counterplay options instead of "just splitting". - Reduce unforgvingness of playing against banelings as Stimmed Marines now die to 3 banelings hits instead of just one. - Solves the Mass banelings issue (where banelings scale too well). The downside here is that it is quite a big change to the Baneling, which could be quite unintutiive. +1 I support this as well. No harm in giving it a try. Shouldn't give up on Baneling too quickly, let's try this first. Also support Snipe for Ghost, as people seem to agree that it can't hurt to try it. | ||
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RDaneelOlivaw
Vatican City State733 Posts
On February 14 2014 11:23 SCST wrote: +1 I support this as well. No harm in giving it a try. Shouldn't give up on Baneling too quickly, let's try this first. Also support Snipe for Ghost, as people seem to agree that it can't hurt to try it. What good is the armor debuff going to do early game though? Seems nice late game but in the midgame when a marine has 0 armor banelings will just be nerfed into the ground. There has to be a way we can find that will preserve ling bane openings while keeping mass bane in check | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
On February 14 2014 12:22 RDaneelOlivaw wrote: What good is the armor debuff going to do early game though? Seems nice late game but in the midgame when a marine has 0 armor banelings will just be nerfed into the ground. There has to be a way we can find that will preserve ling bane openings while keeping mass bane in check Not that I agree with suggestion at all, but units can have negative armor. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On February 14 2014 08:00 Vehk wrote: I mentioned that in my post. The snipe ability would have to have shorter range than storm in order for it to not simply erase HTs from the map. Full disclosure, I play Protoss, so I would kind of hate it too. But currently I feel like storm is pretty strong anyway. The way I see it, this is still the Beta and this is the time to experiment (for all I know the devs might have already had snipe on the ghost at some point and removed it for one reason or another, maybe for the very reason that it would hard counter HTs.) In the OP the developers talk about wanting spells / abilities to have counterplay, which I think snipe in any form doesn't (at best you get the snipe vs feedback debacle of SC2). I think this is why they have removed snipe and are trying new / different directions for the Ghost, which I think is a smart move on their part. | ||
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Zhadez10
Iceland39 Posts
I think I have a really easy fix for them and I'm sort of surprised nobody suggested this exact fix as the ideas are already there. Make them do half impact damage and the rest as damage over time. This will give medics time to heal up the injured marines and/or get a part of them to safety before they're torn up by zerglings or what have you. I wouldnt mind if this effect of split damage was only the case vs light units, as light units arent protected enough from the acids. One thing to keep in mind would be the effect on ZvZ where one baneling now wouldnt kill a zergling due to regeneration, esp if on creep. The damage over time could be adjusted to kill of said zergling tho (but keep the dps not too intense to allow the medics to do some healing). One last thing I wanna mention that could be tweaked for balance is the AoE. The AoE damage of a baneling could be split into 3 areas (just an example) the innermost area being the deadliest, mediumish area having impact damage halved and most outer area only take the damage over time. I read alot of these baneling suggestions and many of them seemed very awkward, and hard to implement (some funky charge mechanics and whatnot, I'm not saying those ideas are bad but they seem impractical for the most part). I liked the idea of reduced armor and damage over time on impact instead of the impact damage but it I think it would really take away that what defines a baneling, the impact itself. | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On February 14 2014 13:13 Zhadez10 wrote: Ok I know I'm late to the baneling party BUT I think I have a really easy fix for them and I'm sort of surprised nobody suggested this exact fix as the ideas are already there. Make them do half impact damage and the rest as damage over time. This will give medics time to heal up the injured marines and/or get a part of them to safety before they're torn up by zerglings or what have you. I wouldnt mind if this effect of split damage was only the case vs light units, as light units arent protected enough from the acids. One thing to keep in mind would be the effect on ZvZ where one baneling now wouldnt kill a zergling due to regeneration, esp if on creep. The damage over time could be adjusted to kill of said zergling tho (but keep the dps not too intense to allow the medics to do some healing). One last thing I wanna mention that could be tweaked for balance is the AoE. The AoE damage of a baneling could be split into 3 areas (just an example) the innermost area being the deadliest, mediumish area having impact damage halved and most outer area only take the damage over time. I read alot of these baneling suggestions and many of them seemed very awkward, and hard to implement (some funky charge mechanics and whatnot, I'm not saying those ideas are bad but they seem impractical for the most part). I liked the idea of reduced armor and damage over time on impact instead of the impact damage but it I think it would really take away that what defines a baneling, the impact itself. Well ya, most of these suggestions are awkward and funky or what not. A lot of them are probably bad and impractical. That's the whole idea though - throw stuff at the wall and see if something sticks. I would encourage people to still try and think of any ideas no matter how crazy that come to mind. It doesn't hurt anyone to post them. I like the idea of Banelings doing a DOT . . . something I suggested myself at one point as well. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On February 14 2014 14:36 SCST wrote: Well ya, most of these suggestions are awkward and funky or what not. A lot of them are probably bad and impractical. That's the whole idea though - throw stuff at the wall and see if something sticks. I would encourage people to still try and think of any ideas no matter how crazy that come to mind. It doesn't hurt anyone to post them. I like the idea of Banelings doing a DOT . . . something I suggested myself at one point as well. Banelings doing a dot is also appealing since they appear to be made of some sort of acid. Afaik, acid doens't do it's work instantly. | ||
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