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On February 14 2014 00:48 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +EDIT: Thoughts on perhaps lower cooldown (10-15 seconds), but lower duration (3-4 seconds)? Yes. What if also if he cancel his charge, he gets a small sloweffect if he dont cancel, he dont get a sloweffect How does that sound? Show nested quote +But I think it will be quite easy for the terran to dodge them since stimmed marines are faster? I mean, they can just run away. If banelings can't move for like 2 seconds, I think banelings speed should be closer to 3.5 for them to be usefull. Potential problem i think of is lets say zerg have 6banelings. He charges two of them, terran dodge them nicely. Now if those charged banelings are still a very dangerousthreat immediately if he cancel, he will have to dodge from the 4left over banelings with a charge ready, and also those other 2banes which charged first.
Yeh probably. I think though something like this could work (maybe),
- 3.25 movement speed when activated
- Can't change direction.
- 6 second duration
- Can cancel at any point in time.
- 1.75 movement speed if it gets cancelled preemptively (for x seconds).
- 2.35 normal baneling speed.
- 10-15 second cooldown
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how hard would it be to micro those banes separetly to get the effect foxxan describes. Espeically if they cannot turn the terran would just have to step to the side, not kite backwards. Even if you cancel the charge and move them normally the terran still has stim up to run away with. Putting a slow debuff on them after charge would make them borderline useless I think.
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ye it looks kind of good, good start
Something i think would be cool is if he only charges lets say 4banes against 25marines.
Now the marines can target them down if he accurate it without taking dmg.
So zergs have to tank a few hits with lings first, something along those lines.
how hard would it be to micro those banes separetly to get the effect foxxan describes. Espeically if they cannot turn the terran would just have to step to the side, not kite backwards. Even if you cancel the charge and move them normally the terran still has stim up to run away with. Putting a slow debuff on them after charge would make them borderline useless I think.
Ye maybe.
But zerg usually have tons of zerglings to block with, and more banes.
So there are more threats after those first banes have charged
I dont think the optimal for zerg is to charge all at once.
Yeh probably. I think though something like this could work (maybe),
- 3.25 movement speed when activated
- Can't change direction.
- 6 second duration
- Can cancel at any point in time.
- 1.75 movement speed if it gets cancelled preemptively (for x seconds).
- 2.35 normal baneling speed.
- 10-15 second cooldown
Would be cool if the armor reduction got added to.
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I don't like the concept at all i have to say :/
This makes the use of banelings in big army situations very unnatural and i don't think anyone would bother to even try them if you can use lurkers too.
But maybe i am wrong, would need to try it first i guess^^
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Putting a slow debuff on them after charge would make them borderline useless I think.
Yeh maybe. Though I think it depends on how fast they are while charging, and how significant the debuff is. If it has a slow debuff it should imo be faster than stimmed Mariens while charging. If it doesn't have a slow debuff, then it could have movement speed 3 during charge.
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Would be cool if the armor reduction got added to.
Yeh IMO it should be. The above stats just specified how I saw the charge-thing work. Damage/armor debuff is another discussion.
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Perhaps you could make banelings "charge" and single target units. The unit targeted could have an effect where in 1.5 seconds (just throwing a random time out there) where it explodes and everything around it taking damage. That could cause an irradiate type of micro? Time would have to be a bit more... maybe even 2 seconds, since many marines would be "infected" by the banelings, while at the same time fighting off zerglings. Not sure... just throwing out an idea
Edit: Even if banelings didn't charge, perhaps just being faster or something?
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Please no debuffs (removes all uses for mines & drops because damage has to be gutted, also overlaps with stuff like ensnare and needlessly complicates fights), no manual detonation splash only (awkward). Like, personally I don't enjoy it when in Starcraft 2 a terran army consists of ghosts for EMP, marines for overall damage, marauders for robustness, vikings to counter colossi and medivacs for healing. It's way too complicated, with too many pieces and synergy that can get out of control. I prefer Brood War where you just make vultures & tanks. I wouldn't want a zerg army have to consist of a million different units just to get the most possible synergy.
A silly idea, but it would be fun if rolling banelings could get a speed boost when rolling down a cliff.  Actually, it reminds me of that video of some Chinese map maker who implemented spore crawlers that could load and shoot banelings, and also terran buildings that could land and crush zerglings. I think those sort of things are fun, I wish some more extreme unit interactions like that could be part of the game.
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Canada11363 Posts
For those of you complaining that banelings are 'boring units' that require little micro, I would encourage you to read Plexa's blog Unit Interactions
I don't much care for his Collosus and SH examples, but the concept is very true. Unit interactions can increase the skill cap of an individual unit which in isolation would simply be a 1a unit. The unit interaction between marines, banelings, and splash vs banelings creates situations of splitting and counter-splitting.
Now. It may turn out that banelings don't work in SB for other reasons, I don't know. But Banelings shouldn't be thrown under the bus because Artosis didn't like them in his 3rd session. He might be right, but then again who knows. But certainly not because banes are an extremely boring unit. Your opponent a-moves them into your army? I don't think so unless the unit interactions within SB makes them boring because in vanilla SC2 they certainly are not.
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I think the biggest problem with banelings is that they do terrible, terrible damage and lowering the damage banelings do is necessary to create battles that aren't instantly over and instead are favourable trades for the zerg, because the terran was looking at his production for a few seconds.
The highest priority should be decreasing the damage and then adjusting other values (increasing health/speed, decreasing cost, adding abilities, ect.)
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On February 13 2014 16:19 Jermman wrote:
devs gif ladder pls
not a dev but here you go: www.StarbowArena.com
(maybe not the ladder you were looking for but there is no other ladder atm afaik)
Also: can we split the Baneling Discussion off? make a new Thread? Its been discussed heavily on the last 5-7 pages now. Every other post is getting drowned... Pleeeaaase?
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On February 14 2014 01:44 Falling wrote:For those of you complaining that banelings are 'boring units' that require little micro, I would encourage you to read Plexa's blog Unit InteractionsI don't much care for his Collosus and SH examples, but the concept is very true. Unit interactions can increase the skill cap of an individual unit which in isolation would simply be a 1a unit. The unit interaction between marines, banelings, and splash vs banelings creates situations of splitting and counter-splitting. Now. It may turn out that banelings don't work in SB for other reasons, I don't know. But Banelings shouldn't be thrown under the bus because Artosis didn't like them in his 3rd session. He might be right, but then again who knows. But certainly not because Show nested quote +banes are an extremely boring unit. Your opponent a-moves them into your army? I don't think so unless the unit interactions within SB makes them boring because in vanilla SC2 they certainly are not.
Yes it is said by a lot of players here, only players that never have played Zerg or with Banelings can say that, or those players that really really hate them.
On February 14 2014 02:07 Daumen wrote:not a dev but here you go: www.StarbowArena.com(maybe not the ladder you were looking for but there is no other ladder atm afaik) Also: can we split the Baneling Discussion off? make a new Thread? Its been discussed heavily on the last 5-7 pages now. Every other post is getting drowned... Pleeeaaase?
Uh, there is nothing much to talk about right now, and this started with "should Banelings be in Starbow or not and do they need changing?", so it is actually valid discussion.
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On February 14 2014 02:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 01:44 Falling wrote:For those of you complaining that banelings are 'boring units' that require little micro, I would encourage you to read Plexa's blog Unit InteractionsI don't much care for his Collosus and SH examples, but the concept is very true. Unit interactions can increase the skill cap of an individual unit which in isolation would simply be a 1a unit. The unit interaction between marines, banelings, and splash vs banelings creates situations of splitting and counter-splitting. Now. It may turn out that banelings don't work in SB for other reasons, I don't know. But Banelings shouldn't be thrown under the bus because Artosis didn't like them in his 3rd session. He might be right, but then again who knows. But certainly not because banes are an extremely boring unit. Your opponent a-moves them into your army? I don't think so unless the unit interactions within SB makes them boring because in vanilla SC2 they certainly are not. Yes it is said by a lot of players here, only players that never have played Zerg or with Banelings can say that, or those players that really really hate them. Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 02:07 Daumen wrote:On February 13 2014 16:19 Jermman wrote:
devs gif ladder pls not a dev but here you go: www.StarbowArena.com(maybe not the ladder you were looking for but there is no other ladder atm afaik) Also: can we split the Baneling Discussion off? make a new Thread? Its been discussed heavily on the last 5-7 pages now. Every other post is getting drowned... Pleeeaaase? Uh, there is nothing much to talk about right now, and this started with "should Banelings be in Starbow or not and do they need changing?", so it is actually valid discussion.
There is lots to talk about ;D DT/Mines, SB-Ladder, SB Arena Ladder whatever ;D
Never said the Discussion is not Valid °_° just saying its getting so huge that everything else gets swallowed by it :X
In essence I want a Starbow Section :O Maybe we will get one if we have multiple Threads xD
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Ok, Banelings would have never came about in any halfway well run Swarm. Any half-wit can see
Scourge can kamikaze dive bomb in to what ever you need. There was no need to wast time engineering them. This would free up the zerg time to delegate for more pressing matters like mending overlords bursting at the seems who are forced to carry 2 Ultras.
The whole banelings discussion is mute.
Why not remove banelings/baneling nest. Then add a "Scourge Tower" after pool in its place, We can then let scourge dive bomb out of pure freaking logic.. I mean what? do Scourge have a fear of falling?
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An idea I had would be to reinstate the medic's optical flare; this time instead of blinding it would "confuse" the target, acting as a 0.5-2 second mind control. The baneling would attack the closest unit to it, and if it was 1a-ed in a giant clump the zerg player would consider using lurkers next time.
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Canada11363 Posts
I mean what? do Scourge have a fear of falling?
Yes. Yes they do.
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Instead of gimping banelings, why not put in more counterplay?
Banelings being strong against bio comps is a core part of SC2. But right now the counter play from SC2 (splitting, medivac pickups) don't work in Starbow.
If ghosts had 30 damage snipe, or if their stun spell was faster and more reliable, there could be bio counterplay options against banelings. What about making their shock spell instant hitting? The spell needs to be spammed to be maintained anyways.
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On February 14 2014 02:25 Daumen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 02:16 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 14 2014 01:44 Falling wrote:For those of you complaining that banelings are 'boring units' that require little micro, I would encourage you to read Plexa's blog Unit InteractionsI don't much care for his Collosus and SH examples, but the concept is very true. Unit interactions can increase the skill cap of an individual unit which in isolation would simply be a 1a unit. The unit interaction between marines, banelings, and splash vs banelings creates situations of splitting and counter-splitting. Now. It may turn out that banelings don't work in SB for other reasons, I don't know. But Banelings shouldn't be thrown under the bus because Artosis didn't like them in his 3rd session. He might be right, but then again who knows. But certainly not because banes are an extremely boring unit. Your opponent a-moves them into your army? I don't think so unless the unit interactions within SB makes them boring because in vanilla SC2 they certainly are not. Yes it is said by a lot of players here, only players that never have played Zerg or with Banelings can say that, or those players that really really hate them. On February 14 2014 02:07 Daumen wrote:On February 13 2014 16:19 Jermman wrote:
devs gif ladder pls not a dev but here you go: www.StarbowArena.com(maybe not the ladder you were looking for but there is no other ladder atm afaik) Also: can we split the Baneling Discussion off? make a new Thread? Its been discussed heavily on the last 5-7 pages now. Every other post is getting drowned... Pleeeaaase? Uh, there is nothing much to talk about right now, and this started with "should Banelings be in Starbow or not and do they need changing?", so it is actually valid discussion. There is lots to talk about ;D DT/Mines, SB-Ladder, SB Arena Ladder whatever ;D Never said the Discussion is not Valid °_° just saying its getting so huge that everything else gets swallowed by it :X In essence I want a Starbow Section :O Maybe we will get one if we have multiple Threads xD
No need for that, Starbow website should be up soon with its own forum.
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EPT
