|
Also, please don't make mutalisks too strong in a game with unlimited unit selection.
Actually they will be worse when massed if Irradiate splash gets buffed. The ability for small groups of Mutalisks to engage small groups of bio units incentivizies and buffs "small group play" rather than "big balls of Mutalisks" (as we see in Sc2).
In Sc2, Mutalisks are IMO problematic as terran has no hardcounter to big groups of Mutalisks, and on the other hand Mutalisks needs a critical mass to engage bio units. BW worked better IMO in that regard as small groups of Mutalisks were usefull while (even without limited unit selection), masses of Mutalisks were held in check through Irradiate.
|
On February 13 2014 22:50 Grumbels wrote:
Can't ghosts get an additional ability? Cloak isn't really a spell, neither is nuke. And shock is an army support ability, not an assassination ability. (reading the starbow wiki and they don't have a fourth ability there)
Also, please don't make mutalisks too strong in a game with unlimited unit selection.
They definitely aren't too strong because of spells like Irradiate, Psi Storm, or units like Arhcons, Vikings, Corsairs etc. As far as I saw, it is really hard to split them since they clump up naturally, so all AoE things are really good against them.
When Idra was playing he would often lose a ton of Mutas to Archons because he would try to split them but he wouldn't be able to do it to great effect, if he had like 20 Mutas, he would split them in three small groups of like 6-7 Mutas and then one Group dies to Archons and he run away with the others.
I haven't seen Starbow match in a week so I don't know if devs changed the Muta clumping but it was like that before.
|
Well combat vs combat is still a possibliity for the terrans who are confident in their micro right?
No.
Not when zerg do some techswitches and terran cant keep up cuz of less value of SV. And vults rly only good with bio vs lings/banes.
Thats why i thought of the ghost.
Now the splash on irridiate can for sure be buffed, as u pointed out its very low. I have just gotten used to it i guess, i know before i noticed it.
Maybe this will fix vs banes.
But about the ghost. If he somehow gets some value vs banelings and than vs some mini-techswitches from zerg.
Like, decent vs lurkers, decent vs banelings.
Easy to make him decent vs guardians to. Through a spell or through an AA 8range explosive dmg.
Hell, probably easy to make him decent vs ultras to with ground explosive dmg(But low range, like 6)
|
Will the speedboost thing be tried?
Removing his speedupgrade but give him a speedboost ability. 10~sec cooldown, charges for 6seconds at movement 3(marines move at 3.14~ with stim), cant change direction.
When he has been charged to the destination. He cant move for a few seconds would be nice.
Anyway, what i wanna try more is a thing on the ghost.
A spell that doesnt do any dmg but have zone control. This way you can zone out banelings and they will have to react towards it.
Maybe, but there are some things though I don't understand 100%;
During the entire duration of 6 seconds, he can't move? But he can cancel it any time and then remove his banelings to a different direction?
Does the cooldown have to be so short? Wouldn't it be better if standard slow banelings had slightly faster movement speed of 2.35 (same as Sc2/1.07), but cooldown was closer to 30 seconds?
If you could cancel the speed bonus at any time in the proces then the zerg player could use this to gain ground, but it would also make him weaker after it has been used. I fear that with a too low cooldown the terran will basically have to retreat all game long.
Couldn't this suggestion be implemented along with Irradiate splash buff?
|
Ugh, I definitely agree that banelings should be removed/heavily altered. They are just so unfun gameplay-wize. Hell, if zergs wants to suicide ground units that bad, have them infest command centers and build infested terrans! :D
EDIT: Another suggestion: Instead of banelings doing massive splash damage, make units hit by banelings have their armor reduced, as well as take damage over time. So when your units are hit by banelings, suddenly zerglings can tear through marines like butter!
|
From interview with White-Ra:
“Starcraft 2 is dead!” pops up on Reddit almost every other week. How “dead” is Starcraft 2 in your opinion and what needs to be done to change it?
The number of viewers may decrease and some players will leave but it is still a very large community. People need to stop comparing Starcraft 2 to free MOBA’s. Starcraft 2 can’t match that.
It is a very complex and difficult game which means that some users may switch over to easier games. In my opinion Blizzard should not be afraid to make big changes.
I've personally like the idea of the new map Starbow.
Read the whole thing here: http://news.esportsventure.com/?news=white-ra-stop-comparing-sc2-to-free-mobas
|
I definitely agree with any change that would turn banelings from a core unit into a niche unit in ZvT though. I prefer banelings to be used purely for early game ZvZ and for ZvX tactics (landmines, bombs, guarding chokes in lieu of lurkers). If you could have the unit function like that I'd be more than happy. Lurkers are simply more fun to use in any regular combat situation.
Also, idea for roaches: acid saliva attack that reduces armor on (some) units similar to the devourer's ability. I think it's nice because if you have a group of roaches, the first attack won't do anything, but the second attack will be stronger and the third attack will be lethal, therefore introducing a timing element.
|
EDIT: Another suggestion: Instead of banelings doing massive splash damage, make units hit by banelings have their armor reduced, as well as take damage over time. So when you're units are hit by banelings, suddenly zerglings can tear through marines like butter!
Not sure about the specific solution you present, but the concept is interesting.
I think any idea that can make 1) Banelings scale worse (w/ Siege tanks and Irradiate being bad vs banelings, something must be changed) and 2) Reduce the unforgivingness of playing vs banelings should definitely be considered.
In the case where 5-10 banelings can do the "same" job as 20 banelings, but in a much less drastic way, then we may have a baneling that is more fun to play against.
|
Ok - here is a suggestion for how that could work:
Banelings deal 50 explosive damage (+/-) to attacked target. Banelings can choose to self detonate dealing no damage.
when Banelings die, all enemy ground units and structures in a small area gets a debuff that reduces armor by 3 (can go negative?) and deals 3 damage per second for the duration. Duration is 8 seconds.
Number can change, but I actually like how this promotes heavy Zergling usage to support Banelings. It also makes Baneling control critical, as you have a choice between heavy damage to things like Firebats and Tanks or massive AOE debuffs on the marine clump.
|
What about this solution?
- Implement Dirtybag's/Foxxans baneling speed solution (specific numbers can be adjusted/discussed)
- Change banelings damage on top of that
Baneling damage stats suggestion
- Banelings damage reduced to 8+8 vs light from 18+18 vs light.
- It reduces armor of units it hits by -3 for 20 seconds.
Advantage of implementing both changes at the same time;
- Will make banelings more fun to micro (hopefully)
- Give players counterplay options instead of "just splitting".
- Reduce unforgvingness of playing against banelings as Stimmed Marines now die to 3 banelings hits instead of just one.
- Solves the Mass banelings issue (where banelings scale too well).
The downside here is that it is quite a big change to the Baneling, which could be quite unintutiive.
|
On February 13 2014 22:01 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
The problem with Banelings is simple really...
Banelings have a much lower skill floor for micro than the skill floor for counter micro.
Banelings are NOT uninteresting. Banelings are NOT imbalanced (inherently). Banelings do NOT go against the design philosophy of StarBow.
By introducing some kind of extra skill element to using Banelings (possibly rebalance afterwards) we would solve this problem.
What about something like manual detonation only to get splash damage.
|
On February 14 2014 00:24 mostevil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 22:01 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
The problem with Banelings is simple really...
Banelings have a much lower skill floor for micro than the skill floor for counter micro.
Banelings are NOT uninteresting. Banelings are NOT imbalanced (inherently). Banelings do NOT go against the design philosophy of StarBow.
By introducing some kind of extra skill element to using Banelings (possibly rebalance afterwards) we would solve this problem. What about something like manual detonation only to get splash damage.
wow that sounds pretty nice i have to say
|
@baneling
1)He use his charge, it lasts 4sec. Movement: 3
After those 4sec, he cant move for 3sec
Cooldown 10sec
This way, marines can stand still after they have dodged the baneling and shoot at w.e he wanna shot.
He can have like 2.3 movementspeed passive in this variant
-----------
2)Or how about this, more extreme:
No cooldown
Charge movement speed is 2.8 instead of 3.
Baneling no speedupgrade.
But baneling turn around very slow!
Just to get this clear: The charge can work a few ways:
a) He uses charge and doesnt stop until the duration is over or he hits a wall
b) He can choose if he wanna charge 1range or 5range(accuracy)
(Maybe other can work to)
My first suggestion is the b) in use.
My second suggestion is also b)
I like 1) more
EDIT:
i didnt update the page, didnt see the last 5comments or so
|
@hider
I like that, alot actually.
It becomes a true support unit for zerglings.
Hell, even other units.
Very cool imo!
What about something like manual detonation only to get splash damage.
I like this to.
Hell with this variant, the baneling could get a seperate dmg value when he detonate(good vs light)
And when he hits only one unit he can get another dmg variant.(good vs armored)
Just saying.
|
Foxxans idea with a kind of bull charge that cant be stopped by the zerg player seems like a cool idea. That makes it much easier to micro against but still retain the feeling of the baneling. Also it makes them still work if you want to bust down some buildings.
However turning the banelings into a kind a dot damage with a debuff attached doesnt sound too bad either. I dont know if its possible to stack debuffs ontop of eachother in the editor, but it would be cool if the damage and debuff could stack in duration then. For example 1 Bane does 5 secs of the debuff and 5 damage per tick which would apply in increments of 1 each second, then the second bane hits and turns that into a 10 sec debuff still for 5 damage a tick and possibly and added armor reduction ontop.
|
On February 13 2014 22:01 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
The problem with Banelings is simple really...
Banelings have a much lower skill floor for micro than the skill floor for counter micro.
Banelings are NOT uninteresting. Banelings are NOT imbalanced (inherently). Banelings do NOT go against the design philosophy of StarBow.
By introducing some kind of extra skill element to using Banelings (possibly rebalance afterwards) we would solve this problem.
Sounds like Science Vessel to me.
|
@baneling
1)He use his charge, it lasts 4sec. Movement: 3
After those 4sec, he cant move for 3sec
Cooldown 10sec
This way, marines can stand still after they have dodged the baneling and shoot at w.e he wanna shot.
He can have like 2.3 movementspeed passive in this variant
I am just not sure that "can't move" after using the ability is fun for the zerg player. I imagine it easily could make the zerg player feel powerless against a decent terran player.
I wonder what your thoughts were on my idea of these stats;
- Slowbanes = 2.35 movement speed (up from 2.23)
- Speedupgrade removed and replaced by this speed-ability.
- Cooldown = 30 seconds.
- Duration approximately 6 seconds
- Movement during duration = 3
- Can't change direction
- Zerg player can cancel it any point in time.
This gives the zerg player a bit more control over how he uses the ability (more microintensive).
|
On February 14 2014 00:36 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +@baneling
1)He use his charge, it lasts 4sec. Movement: 3
After those 4sec, he cant move for 3sec
Cooldown 10sec
This way, marines can stand still after they have dodged the baneling and shoot at w.e he wanna shot.
He can have like 2.3 movementspeed passive in this variant
I am just not sure that "can't move" after using the ability is fun for the zerg player. I imagine it easily could make the zerg player feel powerless against a decent terran player. I wonder what your thoughts were on my idea of these stats; - Slowbanes = 2.35 movement speed (up from 2.23) - Speedupgrade removed and replaced by this speed-ability. - Cooldown = 30 seconds. - Duration approximately 6 seconds - Zerg player can cancel it any point in time.
I dont like the 30sec cooldown and cancel at any point in time.
This combination feels somewhat easy for zerg. Like he will abuse it so the baneling will be even better than before(like always hit target)
And iam usually not a fan of longcooldown abilities.
On my suggestion, what if instead cant move he has 25% sloweffect for 2-3sec?
EDIT:
The cancel point at any time
doesnt sound bad initself.
EDIT2:
The idea was that Zerg could use it to get closer to the terran player, but once the duration has passed, the terran player has an easier time fighting against the Banelings since they just move at 2.35 instead of 2.63.
Hmm.
I just like the idea that should terran feel semi-safe for a while after he have dodged the baneling against that baneling
|
On February 14 2014 00:39 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:36 Hider wrote:@baneling
1)He use his charge, it lasts 4sec. Movement: 3
After those 4sec, he cant move for 3sec
Cooldown 10sec
This way, marines can stand still after they have dodged the baneling and shoot at w.e he wanna shot.
He can have like 2.3 movementspeed passive in this variant
I am just not sure that "can't move" after using the ability is fun for the zerg player. I imagine it easily could make the zerg player feel powerless against a decent terran player. I wonder what your thoughts were on my idea of these stats; - Slowbanes = 2.35 movement speed (up from 2.23) - Speedupgrade removed and replaced by this speed-ability. - Cooldown = 30 seconds. - Duration approximately 6 seconds - Zerg player can cancel it any point in time. I dont like the 30sec cooldown and cancel at any point in time. This combination feels somewhat easy for zerg. Like he will abuse it so the baneling will be even better than before(like always hit target) And iam usually not a fan of longcooldown abilities. On my suggestion, what if instead cant move he has 25% sloweffect for 2-3sec?
The idea was that Zerg could use it to get closer to the terran player, but once the duration has passed, the terran player has an easier time fighting against the Banelings since they just move at 2.35 instead of 2.63.
I think with a higher duration, the zerg will have to be careful on how he uses the speed bonus. But maybe that's a bad thing?
EDIT: Thoughts on perhaps lower cooldown (10-15 seconds), but lower duration (3-4 seconds)?
just like the idea that should terran feel semi-safe for a while after he have dodged the baneling against that baneling
But I think it will be quite easy for the terran to dodge them since stimmed marines are faster? I mean, they can just run away. If banelings can't move for like 2 seconds, I think banelings speed (once activated) should be closer to 3.5 for them to be usefull.
|
EDIT: Thoughts on perhaps lower cooldown (10-15 seconds), but lower duration (3-4 seconds)?
Yes.
What if also if he cancel his charge, he gets a small sloweffect
if he dont cancel, he dont get a sloweffect
How does that sound?
But I think it will be quite easy for the terran to dodge them since stimmed marines are faster? I mean, they can just run away. If banelings can't move for like 2 seconds, I think banelings speed should be closer to 3.5 for them to be usefull.
Potential problem i think of is lets say zerg have 6banelings.
He charges two of them, terran dodge them nicely.
Now if those charged banelings are still a very dangerousthreat immediately if he cancel, he will have to dodge from the 4left over banelings with a charge ready, and also those other 2banes which charged first.
But I think it will be quite easy for the terran to dodge them since stimmed marines are faster? I mean, they can just run away
Yes in some scenarios this is probably a good thing to do.
But in other scenarios lets say he fights on an zerg expansion
Or he have some tanks to protect
I dont want the baneling to kind-of-force the bio to run away even if he dodge it nicely
Forgot that zerg have zerglings to surround etc.
I think there are many variables here is my point i think...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
