On January 21 2014 04:39 HaRuHi wrote: Does anybody know why broodwar maps have so much unbuildable space?`And if we are to treat starbow as something else than broodwar sc2, why don't do the mapmakers the same and let us build where it looks buildable?
Agree, I don't really know what that is all about... Perhaps I'm missing something abusive that Terran can build everywhere but I kinda doubt it.
On January 21 2014 00:40 FromShouri wrote: Too the last few people....blizzard does know about the mod, im not that interested in digging up a link but karune a blizzard cm made a post about it on the b.net forums that boiled down to, "ya weve heard of it, ya its fun for a mod, no were not worried, and just be glad we made sc2 with all the creation tools we did because otherwise starbow wouldnt exist."
Edit - also in the obs maps/sc2bw they had rankings in the map, x wins got you critters and you could see your win lose, etc.
"It seems like people were asking for these same changes (3 base saturation, the "deathball" problem, the "terrible terrible damage" problem) as far back as early 2011....so why did it take a custom map team?..."
It's no different than people asking for more tower defense or more big game hunters or more super-close rush maps. Custom map makers try to fill those requests.
They are only the words of a Blizzard community manager, so they are quite meaningless, but it seems very silly to call the desire to have good gameplay one that Blizzard is happy to have being filled by a mod developer.
Lol, the statement made by their community manager is meaningless. The guy who communicates with the community and we should just ignore him.
Just because the mod had a good week on reddit does mean that Blizzard is going to go "omg guys, thy did it. They cracked the RTS code. This is what we were looking for all along."
I do think referring to a cry for change of gameplay as a cry for more tower defence disqualifies one as a community manager, though. You'll never be taken seriously again by the people taking the mentioned issues seriously, regardless of truth. Well, unless you're trying to polarize or cut part of the playerbase from the discussion.
Or maybe i have a wrong image in my head of what a community manager should do, but i have a hard time imagining this answer being a good one either way.
I did find that statement very strange. Comparing it to a tower defense was playing it down IMO. As a so called community manager he should at least have a bit more tact.
But it is in the same league as a tower defence, it is simply a mod of a game. Sure it may gain some more traction from now and who knows, it may even become the next coming of Counter Strike or DotA, but at this very moment in time it is still just a mod.
That's not the point though is it? Starbow has implemented a lot of the features the community has been crying out for since WOL BETA: a better economy, better designed Protoss, proper Terran mech, units with micro potential, etc. Blizzard pretended that this things can not be done due to the new engine, that they'll make the game worse, and all sorts of excuses.
I guess we always knew that feedback and criticism is worthless no matter how well argued, evidence or anything else. We've been told to go play BW when we asked for a better game and now we are told Starbow is just like any other mod, just sucks to be dismissed in this way i guess.
You should understand that not everyone thinks SB is better than SC2, you make it sound like it's a fact. I gave it a try and so far I wasn't impressed. People with opinions like that just don't camp in this thread.
On January 21 2014 04:39 HaRuHi wrote: Does anybody know why broodwar maps have so much unbuildable space?`And if we are to treat starbow as something else than broodwar sc2, why don't do the mapmakers the same and let us build where it looks buildable?
It was to balance TvP so Terran couldn't build missile turrets everywhere.
On January 21 2014 00:40 FromShouri wrote: Too the last few people....blizzard does know about the mod, im not that interested in digging up a link but karune a blizzard cm made a post about it on the b.net forums that boiled down to, "ya weve heard of it, ya its fun for a mod, no were not worried, and just be glad we made sc2 with all the creation tools we did because otherwise starbow wouldnt exist."
Edit - also in the obs maps/sc2bw they had rankings in the map, x wins got you critters and you could see your win lose, etc.
"It seems like people were asking for these same changes (3 base saturation, the "deathball" problem, the "terrible terrible damage" problem) as far back as early 2011....so why did it take a custom map team?..."
It's no different than people asking for more tower defense or more big game hunters or more super-close rush maps. Custom map makers try to fill those requests.
They are only the words of a Blizzard community manager, so they are quite meaningless, but it seems very silly to call the desire to have good gameplay one that Blizzard is happy to have being filled by a mod developer.
Lol, the statement made by their community manager is meaningless. The guy who communicates with the community and we should just ignore him.
Just because the mod had a good week on reddit does mean that Blizzard is going to go "omg guys, thy did it. They cracked the RTS code. This is what we were looking for all along."
I do think referring to a cry for change of gameplay as a cry for more tower defence disqualifies one as a community manager, though. You'll never be taken seriously again by the people taking the mentioned issues seriously, regardless of truth. Well, unless you're trying to polarize or cut part of the playerbase from the discussion.
Or maybe i have a wrong image in my head of what a community manager should do, but i have a hard time imagining this answer being a good one either way.
I did find that statement very strange. Comparing it to a tower defense was playing it down IMO. As a so called community manager he should at least have a bit more tact.
But it is in the same league as a tower defence, it is simply a mod of a game. Sure it may gain some more traction from now and who knows, it may even become the next coming of Counter Strike or DotA, but at this very moment in time it is still just a mod.
That's not the point though is it? Starbow has implemented a lot of the features the community has been crying out for since WOL BETA: a better economy, better designed Protoss, proper Terran mech, units with micro potential, etc. Blizzard pretended that this things can not be done due to the new engine, that they'll make the game worse, and all sorts of excuses.
I guess we always knew that feedback and criticism is worthless no matter how well argued, evidence or anything else. We've been told to go play BW when we asked for a better game and now we are told Starbow is just like any other mod, just sucks to be dismissed in this way i guess.
You should understand that not everyone thinks SB is better than SC2, you make it sound like it's a fact. I gave it a try and so far I wasn't impressed. People with opinions like that just don't camp in this thread.
I didn't say everyone has the same opinion. Some people are fond of SC2 as it is, especially those that discovered competitive RTS with SC2, nothing wrong with that.
On January 21 2014 00:40 FromShouri wrote: Too the last few people....blizzard does know about the mod, im not that interested in digging up a link but karune a blizzard cm made a post about it on the b.net forums that boiled down to, "ya weve heard of it, ya its fun for a mod, no were not worried, and just be glad we made sc2 with all the creation tools we did because otherwise starbow wouldnt exist."
Edit - also in the obs maps/sc2bw they had rankings in the map, x wins got you critters and you could see your win lose, etc.
"It seems like people were asking for these same changes (3 base saturation, the "deathball" problem, the "terrible terrible damage" problem) as far back as early 2011....so why did it take a custom map team?..."
It's no different than people asking for more tower defense or more big game hunters or more super-close rush maps. Custom map makers try to fill those requests.
They are only the words of a Blizzard community manager, so they are quite meaningless, but it seems very silly to call the desire to have good gameplay one that Blizzard is happy to have being filled by a mod developer.
Lol, the statement made by their community manager is meaningless. The guy who communicates with the community and we should just ignore him.
Just because the mod had a good week on reddit does mean that Blizzard is going to go "omg guys, thy did it. They cracked the RTS code. This is what we were looking for all along."
I do think referring to a cry for change of gameplay as a cry for more tower defence disqualifies one as a community manager, though. You'll never be taken seriously again by the people taking the mentioned issues seriously, regardless of truth. Well, unless you're trying to polarize or cut part of the playerbase from the discussion.
Or maybe i have a wrong image in my head of what a community manager should do, but i have a hard time imagining this answer being a good one either way.
I did find that statement very strange. Comparing it to a tower defense was playing it down IMO. As a so called community manager he should at least have a bit more tact.
But it is in the same league as a tower defence, it is simply a mod of a game. Sure it may gain some more traction from now and who knows, it may even become the next coming of Counter Strike or DotA, but at this very moment in time it is still just a mod.
That's not the point though is it? Starbow has implemented a lot of the features the community has been crying out for since WOL BETA: a better economy, better designed Protoss, proper Terran mech, units with micro potential, etc. Blizzard pretended that this things can not be done due to the new engine, that they'll make the game worse, and all sorts of excuses.
I guess we always knew that feedback and criticism is worthless no matter how well argued, evidence or anything else. We've been told to go play BW when we asked for a better game and now we are told Starbow is just like any other mod, just sucks to be dismissed in this way i guess.
You should understand that not everyone thinks SB is better than SC2, you make it sound like it's a fact. I gave it a try and so far I wasn't impressed. People with opinions like that just don't camp in this thread.
I didn't say everyone has the same opinion. Some people are fond of SC2 as it is, especially those that discovered competitive RTS with SC2, nothing wrong with that.
For the record: I've been playing SC:BW since 1999.
On January 21 2014 04:39 HaRuHi wrote: Does anybody know why broodwar maps have so much unbuildable space?`And if we are to treat starbow as something else than broodwar sc2, why don't do the mapmakers the same and let us build where it looks buildable?
In BW there is a "rocky" tileset that is often used in the middle of the map which is unbuildable. If you're talking about on FS, right outside the ramp the terrain is rocky, presumably to prevent stupid building contains and bullshit - the rocky terrain in the middle also striped with rocky ground - I mean, I would assume this would signify battleground. Anyhow you can still place turrets if you're doing a tank push in TvP or playing TvT and the like. Maybe if you're having trouble differentiating unbuildable vs. buildable the mapmakers might consider making it more evident? Just a thought, I haven't had any problems so far.
On January 20 2014 23:59 The_Red_Viper wrote: Cause i read this so often, pls explain to me why starbow would get more popular than normal sc2?
There are a few reasons why StarBow COULD get bigger than SC2 (eg. look at DOTA) for example it is f2p, feels more rewarding (units actually do stuff and dont just die unless deathballed) and has no established elite/meta/pros...
How is that going to happen`? Will there be big advertising? Why should people who don't have sc2 right now play starbow?
There never was big advertising for DOTA (yes - propably a bit worn out at that point but still one of the best examples to give) but if players like the game it simply spreads by word of mouth and hype. As mentioned above StarBow will be F2P during next week (Patch 2.1 commencing) so there will be atleast a few people giving the free arcade a shot (and blizzard will be advertising the free Arcade to keep their game alive for sure), not to mention old bw players coming back that really disliked SC2.
They don't even know about it. Sure the mod is fun, but the hype is already kinda over, i just don't see starbow being relevant for most of the playerbase if nothing changes. If they add a ladder (which is not allowed) then maybe it would get slightly bigger, but i don't see why people would play it who aren't really interested in sc2.
They maybe don't know about it at that point in time but A) Blizz will promote F2P Aracde B) word is spread C) BW-ish!!!... For the problem of the hype being already over - sure. Hype brings you much more attention in a short time. But things can grow more slowly and blossom aswell. I actually do see SB being relevant to the playerbase since most players actively DO watch SC2 and argueably SB makes up for more interesting and dynamic matches (atm) aswell as not having the 3-base-deathball-a-click design. Looking at a possible ladder function I sadly have to agree with you - ladder would really step up their game but maybe days aren't counted yet. People try anything thats F2P and alot of ppl just dont wanna buy 80€ box to be roflstomped on ladder by some tryhards.
So maybe I'm being to optimistic, to far-from-reality. But maybe we can force Blizzard to think about their game design (Protoss is much discussed in that regard) and if we can make SC2 better by playing a mod that's gonna die - I'll do it. It's fun .
Yeah because old BW players just jump at the idea of playing a BW-ish mod. Pretty sure it would be more likely for them to simply reinstall BW and play that.
I've played BW recently, and I've played Starbow recently.. both are good games and have their place. Why can't people play both and enjoy both?
I'm not saying that you can't enjoy both, I'm saying that it wouldn't work as a marketing tool.
On January 21 2014 02:14 Piy wrote: Are you going to put the ability to Muta spread back into the game? Zerg has a hard time against mech when Terran can counter Mutas so efficiently. They can't adequately force goliaths since 2-3 vessels destroy a muta cloud in seconds because the mutas naturally bunch up.
This isn't a question of infinite selection, mutas are fine to deal with for terran regardless of Terran's composition, it's a question of zerg having a core unit in it's anti-mech composition back in the game. I think it would also solve a lot of the rage about Irradiate, which tbh I think probably is too strong in a mech composition right now as it effectively negates muta.
Is there a way to spread them I'm not seeing?
You need to make a tech transition once irradiate comes out, stop making mutalisks and start making lurkers/defilers.
EPT
