On January 21 2014 04:39 HaRuHi wrote: Does anybody know why broodwar maps have so much unbuildable space?`And if we are to treat starbow as something else than broodwar sc2, why don't do the mapmakers the same and let us build where it looks buildable?
In BW there is a "rocky" tileset that is often used in the middle of the map which is unbuildable. If you're talking about on FS, right outside the ramp the terrain is rocky, presumably to prevent stupid building contains and bullshit - the rocky terrain in the middle also striped with rocky ground - I mean, I would assume this would signify battleground. Anyhow you can still place turrets if you're doing a tank push in TvP or playing TvT and the like. Maybe if you're having trouble differentiating unbuildable vs. buildable the mapmakers might consider making it more evident? Just a thought, I haven't had any problems so far.
It is not just FS, on circuit breaker the high towards the middle has the exact same textures like the main, but is not buildable. I am asking from a Zerg point of view, most times all textures look the same with creep on them and I can uproot my static D, but no place to root it again. :<
Hmmm, that sounds really weird, as a Zerg player myself so far I haven't had any problems O.O. Not doubting you though - that's something for the map makers to look at T.T.
IdrA streaming Starbow? Pure bliss, I love you man <3.
ill have to watch the replays and see if he was being greedier than he should or something, cuz i was on very low drone, but yea 2 hat muta with good timings seems absurdly strong vs mech. not totally confident saying bio is bad yet but z has an awful lot of aoe and tanks dont seem good enough to justify going very tank heavy, plus if z recognizes 2 fac tank or something they can get up to defilers super fast with nuturing swarm.
things are obviously not very figured out but z at least appears to have a definite advantage zvt
Seems to me that if you make unit producing faster than in BW via macro mechanics, but keep static defense the same, those will probably sucks compared to BW. In this case the turrets seems to be the same as BW, little weaker because they 2 shot instead of 1 of 10 each.
On January 21 2014 08:15 SCST wrote: Think he might have a point about Muta opening's though. Maybe missile turrets need something, or goliath's. Look what he just did to that Golitha/Viking/Turrent combo... straight up massacre with only Mutas.
mutas are really strong. you have to get irridiate sooner or later to deal with them. Maybe nerf the dps of irridiate. (same damage but over a longer period of time) and buff a little the viking splash ? Or wait and see how it plays out.
I think the splash is nice but it's easy to counter as BeastyQT and Idra just mentioned... Idra just let his Mutas un-clump and the Vikings became useless.
the engagement was really bad by the terran too.
Maybe, just seems that with everything BeastyQT had there those Mutas shouldn't have done so well even if it was simple A-move from both players. Beasty was eradicated and hardly any Mutas killed.
If BeastQT opened mech, you need to basically go pure goliaths to beat muta or valkyrie (fantasy build), turrets are not necessary. That said, if you do that you can simply stroll into the zerg base and win.
Turrets were terrible in BW, they definitely help, but you can kill almost infinite amounts of turrets with 2 hatch muta + micro. Turrets are really only useful in bio, in mech you just throw down 3/4 factories, mass goliaths +1 armor and range and its basically build order win for Terran.
I didn't watch this video coz I'm at work but I think its the one I'm thinking of from memory. With this build you trade pretty well against 3 hatch hydra but you lose map control so zerg ends up winning later on if he knows what hes doing, also if you skip scan and zerg goes lurker you straight up die. Other than that its a ridiculously powerful build when you get the timings down.
Last night I played my first few games, i noticed that my mouse does not move across the screen as smoothly as normal sc2. I know that there have been some things changed in the mechanics of the game so not sure if this is a result of this and whether i can fix it. Not sure if anyone else notices this also.
On January 21 2014 08:49 Gasi wrote: If Starbow gameplay feel different from BroodWar, there is a reason for it. Here are some notable unit changes from BW to the current version of SB BETA
P R O T O S S
Zealot - Damage changed from flat 16 in BW to 2x8 in SB - making zealots less effective, Zealots also feel little bit slower. (i could be wrong here, correct me if its so)
Dragoon - This unit get small attack speed improvement (30CD=2.0 for BW) its 1.87 in SB
High Templar - Storm last 6 seconds in SB (it lasts 4 seconds in BW)
Dark Templar - DTs seem unchanged
Reaver - Big changes here. Attack speed reduced from 60CD(4.00) to 4.33. Damage reduced from 100+25 to 80+20, splash damage also reduced. Range increased by 1.
Archons - Archon attack speed is reduced slightly from 20CD(1.25) to 1.46. - Dark Archons are removed :S
Corsair - Same unit. Disruption web ability is removed.
Scout - This unit seem greatly improved - its much cheaper. Scouts have feedback-splash ability with 1 min cooldown. - Still It is unlikely to replace the corsair as early harass unit because now requires fleet beacon. - In big numbers, corsairs are still much better anti air units than scouts.
Carrier - This unit's damage greatly reduced. - Interceptor damage changed from 6 to 2x4 and its attack speed reduced from 37CD(2.48~) to 3.60 - Carriers deal less damage versus lightly armored units and NO-Damage to armored ones. Carriers move slower and CANNOT be microed.
Arbiter - HP down from 200/150 in BW to 100/150 in SB
T E R R A N S
Marines - This unit get minior changes +5HP, attack 8% faster without stim but 10% slower when stimed
Firebat - HP increased from 50 to 100, attack speed is reduced, stim is also less effective
Medic - Good old restoration and blind abilities are replaced by one new ability that seem bit useless to me - Healing is reworked to heal 8hp for every 4 energy instead of 2Hp for every 1energy (medics need minimum of 4 energy in order to heal)
Ghosts - This unit get HP increased from 45 to 80 and more base damage. - Lockdown is removed - Ghost get new ability called "Shock" - it cost 50 energy stuns targets in small radius for few seconds
Vulture - Its pretty much the same with minior attack speed improvement.
Siege Tank - Attack speed in siege mode reduced from 75CD(3.00)in BW to 4.53 in Sb
Goliath - its pretty much the same however it does 2x10 in SB instead of 20 in BW (correct me if i am wrong here)
Science Vessel - Irradiate damage reduced from 250 in BW to 190 in SB - Defensive matrix is replaced by new ability called nerve jammer. I am not exactly sure if that is a good or bad change.
Battlecruiser It is no longer possible for that unit to one-shot scourges. BCs are still good at killing computers.
Valkyrie That unit is replaced by the viking - the viking have only 6 range - 140HP and small splash radius.
Dropships They have ignite afterburners but can't heal.
Z E R G
Zerglings - Unchanged. They can also turn into banelings
Hydras - This unit get small attack speed buff 15CD(1.00) in BW to 0.92 in SB
Lurker - This unit get small damage buff from 20 in BW to 23 in Sb. - Lurkers also get new abilites that allow them to stay passive or aggressive
Mutalisk - Small attack speed buff from 30CD(2.0) in BW to 1.87 in SB
Scourges - This unit get 30% HP increase and now deals splash damage. Still does 125 damage.
Queens - Big changes here, they are more like SC2 queens, can inject larva, the heal ability also increase morph rate by 100%
Guardian - Gets 2 extra range. 5 additional damage but attack speed is reduced from 30CD(2.00) to 3.2
Devourer - This unit gets big attack speed improvement from 100CD(6.7) in BW to 3.75 in SB Almost 100% AS buff, making devourer very good choice for air to air combat - Devourers also get ability called "blight" that does 150 damage over 30secs to all ground targets. That ability have 90secs cooldown
Utralisk This unit is same as BW but it fairly smaller, significantly increasing its effectiveness.
Defiler Plague cost 125 instead of 150 energy however damage reduced from 300 to 200.
This is really nice. Actually, what we really need is a full write up just like this with all the units and all of their abilities in the OP.
Honestly, lots of people don't even know what some units do even after playing a ton of games.
On January 21 2014 08:49 Gasi wrote: If Starbow gameplay feel different from BroodWar, there is a reason for it. Here are some notable unit changes from BW to the current version of SB BETA
P R O T O S S
Zealot - Damage changed from flat 16 in BW to 2x8 in SB - making zealots less effective, Zealots also feel little bit slower. (i could be wrong here, correct me if its so)
Dragoon - This unit get small attack speed improvement (30CD=2.0 for BW) its 1.87 in SB
High Templar - Storm last 6 seconds in SB (it lasts 4 seconds in BW)
Dark Templar - DTs seem unchanged
Reaver - Big changes here. Attack speed reduced from 60CD(4.00) to 4.33. Damage reduced from 100+25 to 80+20, splash damage also reduced. Range increased by 1.
Archons - Archon attack speed is reduced slightly from 20CD(1.25) to 1.46. - Dark Archons are removed :S
Corsair - Same unit. Disruption web ability is removed.
Scout - This unit seem greatly improved - its much cheaper. Scouts have feedback-splash ability with 1 min cooldown. - Still It is unlikely to replace the corsair as early harass unit because now requires fleet beacon. - In big numbers, corsairs are still much better anti air units than scouts.
Carrier - This unit's damage greatly reduced. - Interceptor damage changed from 6 to 2x4 and its attack speed reduced from 37CD(2.48~) to 3.60 - Carriers deal less damage versus lightly armored units and NO-Damage to armored ones. Carriers move slower and CANNOT be microed.
Arbiter - HP down from 200/150 in BW to 100/150 in SB
T E R R A N S
Marines - This unit get minior changes +5HP, attack 8% faster without stim but 10% slower when stimed
Firebat - HP increased from 50 to 100, attack speed is reduced, stim is also less effective
Medic - Good old restoration and blind abilities are replaced by one new ability that seem bit useless to me - Healing is reworked to heal 8hp for every 4 energy instead of 2Hp for every 1energy (medics need minimum of 4 energy in order to heal)
Ghosts - This unit get HP increased from 45 to 80 and more base damage. - Lockdown is removed - Ghost get new ability called "Shock" - it cost 50 energy stuns targets in small radius for few seconds
Vulture - Its pretty much the same with minior attack speed improvement.
Siege Tank - Attack speed in siege mode reduced from 75CD(3.00)in BW to 4.53 in Sb
Goliath - its pretty much the same however it does 2x10 in SB instead of 20 in BW (correct me if i am wrong here)
Science Vessel - Irradiate damage reduced from 250 in BW to 190 in SB - Defensive matrix is replaced by new ability called nerve jammer. I am not exactly sure if that is a good or bad change.
Battlecruiser It is no longer possible for that unit to one-shot scourges. BCs are still good at killing computers.
Valkyrie That unit is replaced by the viking - the viking have only 6 range - 140HP and small splash radius.
Dropships They have ignite afterburners but can't heal.
Z E R G
Zerglings - Unchanged. They can also turn into banelings
Hydras - This unit get small attack speed buff 15CD(1.00) in BW to 0.92 in SB
Lurker - This unit get small damage buff from 20 in BW to 23 in Sb. - Lurkers also get new abilites that allow them to stay passive or aggressive
Mutalisk - Small attack speed buff from 30CD(2.0) in BW to 1.87 in SB
Scourges - This unit get 30% HP increase and now deals splash damage. Still does 125 damage.
Queens - Big changes here, they are more like SC2 queens, can inject larva, the heal ability also increase morph rate by 100%
Guardian - Gets 2 extra range. 5 additional damage but attack speed is reduced from 30CD(2.00) to 3.2
Devourer - This unit gets big attack speed improvement from 100CD(6.7) in BW to 3.75 in SB Almost 100% AS buff, making devourer very good choice for air to air combat - Devourers also get ability called "blight" that does 150 damage over 30secs to all ground targets. That ability have 90secs cooldown
Utralisk This unit is same as BW but it fairly smaller, significantly increasing its effectiveness.
Defiler Plague cost 125 instead of 150 energy however damage reduced from 300 to 200.
This is really nice. Actually, what we really need is a full write up just like this with all the units and all of their abilities in the OP.
Honestly, lots of people don't even know what some units do even after playing a ton of games.
Someone was nice enough to upload Starbow unit test map and keep it up to date all the time.
I feel like a poor effort has been made to keep track of the update history for StarBow as well as what changes were initially made (in detail) when it first launched (in contrast to SC2 Vanilla). There are a lot of misunderstandings that should not be happening.
EDIT: This mod is awesome though, keep up the great work.
On January 21 2014 09:47 InFaMOUs331 wrote: I feel like a poor effort has been made to keep track of the update history for StarBow as well as what changes were initially made (in detail) when it first launched (in contrast to SC2 Vanilla). There are a lot of misunderstandings that should not be happening.
Pretty sure the launch was rushed and unexpected due to TotalBiscuit going public before they were ready . . .
Not to say that it wasn't a good thing in the end considering the result, but we can't expect them to have everything ready when it wasn't a planned release.
Might be a good time for the dev team to recruit some volunteer staff as well if needed. I'm sure some people on here would be willing to help out with whatever needs doing.
I know it would probably be a lot of work and it has no priority whatsoever, I just wondered if it would be possible at all (since it is a custom map) and if there would be any interrest in adding the stronger team colors from the mod that no longer works since 1.5 but is still build into gameheart.
I googled it and it seems that in brood war the cooldown was measured in frames. On normal speed the game is on 15 frames per second, on fastest on 24 frames per second.
edit: but 75/15 should be 5^^ edit2: but BW was played on fastest, no? edit3: and the times from starbow are in blizzard time, or is it changed to real time?
I googled it and it seems that in brood war the cooldown was measured in frames. On normal speed the game is on 15 frames per second, on fastest on 24 frames per second.
edit: but 75/15 should be 5^^ edit2: but BW was played on fastest, no? edit3: and the times from starbow are in blizzard time, or is it changed to real time?
Don't get confused
SC2 on normal speed runs on normal time therefor 15fps(normal BW speed) is same as one SC2 second
On January 21 2014 09:17 SCST wrote: Honestly, lots of people don't even know what some units do even after playing a ton of games.
I was playing a PvZ earlier today. My opponent had 3 Hatches on 2 base with 1 gas and was making a ton of Lings with very few Drones. I blocked with my Zealots, had 2 Cannons, and figured I was safe until 15 Banelings showed up and I suddenly remembered they were in this game.
Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all.
But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week.
"For all intents' purposes"
Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart.
Again though, I could be completely off base here.
EPT
