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On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes"
....i can't tell if you're being serious.
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For all intents and purposes
LOL
Im such an asshole for doing that and not even getting it right
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On January 21 2014 10:41 Fishgle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" ....i can't tell if you're being serious.
"For all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_all_intents_and_purposes
On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart. Again though, I could be completely off base here.
The way to open mech is usually 1 base factory, rush vulture and expand. Slow vultures can kite slow lings all day without getting hit so zerg needs to build static defense to not lose drones.
Other ways to open mech is
- 2 fact speed/mines vultures (double expand or allin if zerg has no tech and map allows for it)
- 14CC into 3 fact gols
- Fantasy build
- Reality (Hell) build
I think the 5 marine medic mech opening was something Baby (and only Baby) did a lot, he would open with 1 Rax fe, acad, 5 marine medic, and then either produce 1 vulture or go straight into goliaths. Sometimes he would get this wicked timing where zerg wouldn't build enough defense/units, and he would just waltz straight in with a handful of bio and a couple goliaths.
2 hatch muta is defendable but also very very powerful.
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On January 21 2014 08:49 Gasi wrote:
If Starbow gameplay feel different from BroodWar, there is a reason for it. Here are some notable unit changes from BW to the current version of SBow BETA
P R O T O S S
Zealot
- Damage changed from flat 16 in BW to 2x8 in SB - making zealots less effective, Zealots also feel little bit slower.
(i could be wrong here, correct me if its so)
Zealot did 2 hits in bw for 8 each. It just didnt show on the icon.
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On January 21 2014 08:49 Gasi wrote:
If Starbow gameplay feel different from BroodWar, there is a reason for it. Here are some notable unit changes from BW to the current version of SBow BETA
P R O T O S S
Zealot
- Damage changed from flat 16 in BW to 2x8 in SB - making zealots less effective, Zealots also feel little bit slower.
(i could be wrong here, correct me if its so)
From memory zlots always did 2x8 in BW, which is one of the reasons they sucked so much against ultras (the ultra armour upgrade was basically worth double in mitigating their attacks).
Arbiters also no longer cloak air.
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On January 21 2014 10:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 10:41 Fishgle wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" ....i can't tell if you're being serious. "For all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_all_intents_and_purposesShow nested quote +On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart. Again though, I could be completely off base here. The way to open mech is usually 1 base factory, rush vulture and expand. Slow vultures can kite slow lings all day without getting hit so zerg needs to build static defense to not lose drones. Other ways to open mech is - 2 fact speed/mines vultures (double expand or allin if zerg has no tech and map allows for it) - 14CC into 3 fact gols - Fantasy build - Reality (Hell) build I think the 5 marine medic mech opening was something Baby (and only Baby) did a lot, he would open with 1 Rax fe, acad, 5 marine medic, and then either produce 1 vulture or go straight into goliaths. Sometimes he would get this wicked timing where zerg wouldn't build enough defense/units, and he would just waltz straight in with a handful of bio and a couple goliaths. 2 hatch muta is defendable but also very very powerful.
The problem is that this isn't an exact replica of Broodwar (as has been mentioned like 50 times in this thread no offense  ) . . . Starbow is it's own game, as exemplified by the following unique ability:
Nurturing Swarm
Energy: 25
Range: 7
Duration 15 s
Releases a cloud of nurturing insects at a targeted biological unit or structure, restoring 75 hitpoints to the target. If used on a morphing structure these insects will increase the structure's morph rate by 100% for 15 seconds.
Nurturing Swarm Queen ability allows for creating buildings way faster. Idra learned today that the spell can be chained to make hatcheries and spire build super fast. Because this ability can be chained and wall-offs are much easier in Starbow, 2-hatch Muta comes faster than in Broodwar. So fast, in fact, that BeastyQT didn't even have turrets up in time when he knew that this exact build was coming and he was specifically trying to beat it.
So basically, standard BW defense does not work here. BeastyQT thinks he's found a way to defend with Vikings, but he won't know until he tests it out against Idra tomorrow.
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༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give Dweb!
User was warned for this post
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I think Protoss and Corsairs are strong enough without Disruption atm . . . 
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On January 21 2014 11:07 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 10:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:On January 21 2014 10:41 Fishgle wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" ....i can't tell if you're being serious. "For all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_all_intents_and_purposesOn January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart. Again though, I could be completely off base here. The way to open mech is usually 1 base factory, rush vulture and expand. Slow vultures can kite slow lings all day without getting hit so zerg needs to build static defense to not lose drones. Other ways to open mech is - 2 fact speed/mines vultures (double expand or allin if zerg has no tech and map allows for it) - 14CC into 3 fact gols - Fantasy build - Reality (Hell) build I think the 5 marine medic mech opening was something Baby (and only Baby) did a lot, he would open with 1 Rax fe, acad, 5 marine medic, and then either produce 1 vulture or go straight into goliaths. Sometimes he would get this wicked timing where zerg wouldn't build enough defense/units, and he would just waltz straight in with a handful of bio and a couple goliaths. 2 hatch muta is defendable but also very very powerful. The problem is that this isn't an exact replica of Broodwar (as has been mentioned like 50 times in this thread no offense ) . . . Starbow is it's own game, as exemplified by the following unique ability: Show nested quote +
Nurturing Swarm
Energy: 25
Range: 7
Duration 15 s
Releases a cloud of nurturing insects at a targeted biological unit or structure, restoring 75 hitpoints to the target. If used on a morphing structure these insects will increase the structure's morph rate by 100% for 15 seconds.
Nurturing Swarm Queen ability allows for creating buildings way faster. Idra learned today that the spell can be chained to make hatcheries and spire build super fast. Because this ability can be chained and wall-offs are much easier in Starbow, 2-hatch Muta comes faster than in Broodwar. So fast, in fact, that BeastyQT didn't even have turrets up in time when he knew that this exact build was coming and he was specifically trying to beat it. So basically, standard BW defense does not work here. BeastyQT thinks he's found a way to defend with Vikings, but he won't know until he tests it out against Idra tomorrow.
Terran has an ability that increases production speed as well.
It still makes 2 hatch muta a semi-allin if you defend it without losing too many scvs you win.
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I started following the Starbow thread about 2 years ago, and for some reason it became a daily stop for me to keep up with the conversation about the design of this game.
I must have been really impressed. Because not only do I not play Starbow: I don't play SC at all. I'm purely a spectator and a fan - albeit a very rabid fan, love this Starcraft scene - I watch tourneys on a regular basis, keep up with the player stats and community conversation, have attended big tourneys etc ..
What I saw was a group of individuals who were thinking creatively but had their head on straight in terms of overall philosophy and goals they wanted to achieve. I could see that they were on to something really cool, that had the best chance of addressing the biggest pitfalls with SC2.
Glad to see they stuck it out and kept improving it and that its getting the attention it deserves! Congrats guys!
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On January 21 2014 11:28 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:07 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 10:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:On January 21 2014 10:41 Fishgle wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" ....i can't tell if you're being serious. "For all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_all_intents_and_purposesOn January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart. Again though, I could be completely off base here. The way to open mech is usually 1 base factory, rush vulture and expand. Slow vultures can kite slow lings all day without getting hit so zerg needs to build static defense to not lose drones. Other ways to open mech is - 2 fact speed/mines vultures (double expand or allin if zerg has no tech and map allows for it) - 14CC into 3 fact gols - Fantasy build - Reality (Hell) build I think the 5 marine medic mech opening was something Baby (and only Baby) did a lot, he would open with 1 Rax fe, acad, 5 marine medic, and then either produce 1 vulture or go straight into goliaths. Sometimes he would get this wicked timing where zerg wouldn't build enough defense/units, and he would just waltz straight in with a handful of bio and a couple goliaths. 2 hatch muta is defendable but also very very powerful. The problem is that this isn't an exact replica of Broodwar (as has been mentioned like 50 times in this thread no offense ) . . . Starbow is it's own game, as exemplified by the following unique ability:
Nurturing Swarm
Energy: 25
Range: 7
Duration 15 s
Releases a cloud of nurturing insects at a targeted biological unit or structure, restoring 75 hitpoints to the target. If used on a morphing structure these insects will increase the structure's morph rate by 100% for 15 seconds.
Nurturing Swarm Queen ability allows for creating buildings way faster. Idra learned today that the spell can be chained to make hatcheries and spire build super fast. Because this ability can be chained and wall-offs are much easier in Starbow, 2-hatch Muta comes faster than in Broodwar. So fast, in fact, that BeastyQT didn't even have turrets up in time when he knew that this exact build was coming and he was specifically trying to beat it. So basically, standard BW defense does not work here. BeastyQT thinks he's found a way to defend with Vikings, but he won't know until he tests it out against Idra tomorrow. Terran has an ability that increases production speed as well. It still makes 2 hatch muta a semi-allin if you defend it without losing too many scvs you win.
Tomorrow Goliaths will (should) be buffed and Vikings speed upgrade will become more accessible. I like his chances at defending it.
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What is the build order for IdrA's ''perfected'' 2 hatch muta?
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On January 21 2014 11:34 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:28 sluggaslamoo wrote:On January 21 2014 11:07 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 10:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:On January 21 2014 10:41 Fishgle wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" ....i can't tell if you're being serious. "For all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_all_intents_and_purposesOn January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart. Again though, I could be completely off base here. The way to open mech is usually 1 base factory, rush vulture and expand. Slow vultures can kite slow lings all day without getting hit so zerg needs to build static defense to not lose drones. Other ways to open mech is - 2 fact speed/mines vultures (double expand or allin if zerg has no tech and map allows for it) - 14CC into 3 fact gols - Fantasy build - Reality (Hell) build I think the 5 marine medic mech opening was something Baby (and only Baby) did a lot, he would open with 1 Rax fe, acad, 5 marine medic, and then either produce 1 vulture or go straight into goliaths. Sometimes he would get this wicked timing where zerg wouldn't build enough defense/units, and he would just waltz straight in with a handful of bio and a couple goliaths. 2 hatch muta is defendable but also very very powerful. The problem is that this isn't an exact replica of Broodwar (as has been mentioned like 50 times in this thread no offense ) . . . Starbow is it's own game, as exemplified by the following unique ability:
Nurturing Swarm
Energy: 25
Range: 7
Duration 15 s
Releases a cloud of nurturing insects at a targeted biological unit or structure, restoring 75 hitpoints to the target. If used on a morphing structure these insects will increase the structure's morph rate by 100% for 15 seconds.
Nurturing Swarm Queen ability allows for creating buildings way faster. Idra learned today that the spell can be chained to make hatcheries and spire build super fast. Because this ability can be chained and wall-offs are much easier in Starbow, 2-hatch Muta comes faster than in Broodwar. So fast, in fact, that BeastyQT didn't even have turrets up in time when he knew that this exact build was coming and he was specifically trying to beat it. So basically, standard BW defense does not work here. BeastyQT thinks he's found a way to defend with Vikings, but he won't know until he tests it out against Idra tomorrow. Terran has an ability that increases production speed as well. It still makes 2 hatch muta a semi-allin if you defend it without losing too many scvs you win. Tomorrow Goliaths will (should) be buffed and Vikings speed upgrade will become more accessible. I like his chances at defending it.
Also, beasty was just way late with his turrets and made a tank that served no purpose vs this semi-all in which he said himself. He also found a way to beat it rather consistently a few games later, tomorrow they meet again to duke it out. :d
Also, improving vikings and goliaths at the same time... I hope they give a way to unstack mutas then since irradiate is very strong already against them.
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On January 21 2014 11:28 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:07 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 10:52 sluggaslamoo wrote:On January 21 2014 10:41 Fishgle wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" ....i can't tell if you're being serious. "For all intensive purposes" doesn't mean anything. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_all_intents_and_purposesOn January 21 2014 10:39 Aveng3r wrote:On January 21 2014 08:35 SCST wrote:On January 21 2014 08:27 Qwyn wrote:
IdrA perfecting two hatch muta - awwwww yeah! Yes it looks like he has it down perfectly atm. And for all intensive purposes it doesn't appear that Terran can defend against it at all. But then again, Idra did say on stream that he feels silly making any balance suggestions for a game that's been out for a week. "For all intents' purposes" Also for the 2 hatch muta discussion- I thought the way to play mech (in bw) was to open with marines and medics plus turrets? I could be completely wrong here though. I saw flash once go cc first and then go all out on the defensive against mutas but he still lost to the mutas just picking him apart. Again though, I could be completely off base here. The way to open mech is usually 1 base factory, rush vulture and expand. Slow vultures can kite slow lings all day without getting hit so zerg needs to build static defense to not lose drones. Other ways to open mech is - 2 fact speed/mines vultures (double expand or allin if zerg has no tech and map allows for it) - 14CC into 3 fact gols - Fantasy build - Reality (Hell) build I think the 5 marine medic mech opening was something Baby (and only Baby) did a lot, he would open with 1 Rax fe, acad, 5 marine medic, and then either produce 1 vulture or go straight into goliaths. Sometimes he would get this wicked timing where zerg wouldn't build enough defense/units, and he would just waltz straight in with a handful of bio and a couple goliaths. 2 hatch muta is defendable but also very very powerful. The problem is that this isn't an exact replica of Broodwar (as has been mentioned like 50 times in this thread no offense ) . . . Starbow is it's own game, as exemplified by the following unique ability:
Nurturing Swarm
Energy: 25
Range: 7
Duration 15 s
Releases a cloud of nurturing insects at a targeted biological unit or structure, restoring 75 hitpoints to the target. If used on a morphing structure these insects will increase the structure's morph rate by 100% for 15 seconds.
Nurturing Swarm Queen ability allows for creating buildings way faster. Idra learned today that the spell can be chained to make hatcheries and spire build super fast. Because this ability can be chained and wall-offs are much easier in Starbow, 2-hatch Muta comes faster than in Broodwar. So fast, in fact, that BeastyQT didn't even have turrets up in time when he knew that this exact build was coming and he was specifically trying to beat it. So basically, standard BW defense does not work here. BeastyQT thinks he's found a way to defend with Vikings, but he won't know until he tests it out against Idra tomorrow. Terran has an ability that increases production speed as well. It still makes 2 hatch muta a semi-allin if you defend it without losing too many scvs you win.
I'm not talking about the speed that buildings produce units, I'm talking about producing the buildings themselves faster. 100% faster. Read the ability text carefully.
It's not semi-allin at all at this time, because Zerg has map control and can take a 3rd behind the Mutas. In order for Terran to defend (in theory) the Vikings can't leave the protection of Turrets and the Turrets can't be build everywhere on the map.
But all this is a moot point now that Hider has stated that Goliath's are being buffed tomorrow.
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Also random question, why not the sunken colony from the campaign? Looks so much cooler than those flesh-whips from sc2 :d
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On January 21 2014 12:15 HaRuHi wrote:
Also random question, why not the sunken colony from the campaign? Looks so much cooler than those flesh-whips from sc2 :d
Probably because the SC2 creep spread system is one of the things about SC2 that is really amazing. Separates men and boys.
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goliaths are already pretty strong vs carriers tho =/
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On January 21 2014 12:15 HaRuHi wrote:
Also random question, why not the sunken colony from the campaign? Looks so much cooler than those flesh-whips from sc2 :d
I personally like sunkens way more too, but I can't tell if that is 100% because of nostalgia
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EPT
