EPTSexy!
David Kim's Current Balance Thoughts - Page 41
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
Sexy! | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:22 Staboteur wrote: Hah. The Starbow thing is excellent! If you watch the TvP TotalBiscuit casted recently, it looks like it plays a hell of a lot like a BW game - units everywhere, many things happening, the Terran loses his entire army in the middle of the map but that doesn't translate into him just being fucking dead... Players aren't hitting max supply till after 20 minutes game-time... Useful tech still being researched post-20 minutes, expensive units are extremely powerful but need protecting :O Sexy! It's not fair though, since the players are deliberately using BW strategies. Of course it's going to look like BW. I want to see more SC2 oriented players try their luck, to see if they'll still tend towards positional play. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:34 Grumbels wrote: It's not fair though, since the players are deliberately using BW strategies. Of course it's going to look like BW. I want to see more SC2 oriented players try their luck, to see if they'll still tend towards positional play. What strategies? 2 base all ins? Warp gate units are not strong enough, both terran and zerg have cheap and accessible defensive options. Deathballs? Don't work, siege tanks, lurkers, reavers and storm would rip them apart. There are no moronic units like the colossus or broodlord that allow for that type of gameplay. 3 base turtle? Doesn't work the same way because of the far more interesting economic system. Most pure SC2 strats would probably be terrible in SB. The game forces players to spread out, which is the whole idea, | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:47 Squat wrote: What strategies? 2 base all ins? Warp gate units are not strong enough, both terran and zerg have cheap and accessible defensive options. Deathballs? Don't work, siege tanks, lurkers, reavers and storm would rip them apart. There are no moronic units like the colossus or broodlord that allow for that type of gameplay. 3 base turtle? Doesn't work the same way because of the far more interesting economic system. Most pure SC2 strats would probably be terrible in SB. The game forces players to spread out, which is the whole idea, You can also play mech PvT in SC2. But it's not used since over time it has proved weak. Starbow hasn't had time for this development yet. (many of the current players are concerned with designing the game as well, and are biased in that they want the game to play out more like BW) | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
And wanting the basic gameplay to be more like BW is a good thing, it has far better foundations than SC2. If it is at all similar, mech will the way to go vs protoss. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
On January 14 2014 21:06 Squat wrote: So you can play mech vs toss in SC2, but it sucks? That sounds kind of like saying you can play mass hydra vs bio, only it's terrible. And wanting the basic gameplay to be more like BW is a good thing, it has far better foundations than SC2. If it is at all similar, mech will the way to go vs protoss. Deep six would be pretty strong with SC2's better unit AI | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:47 Squat wrote: What strategies? 2 base all ins? Warp gate units are not strong enough, both terran and zerg have cheap and accessible defensive options. Deathballs? Don't work, siege tanks, lurkers, reavers and storm would rip them apart. There are no moronic units like the colossus or broodlord that allow for that type of gameplay. 3 base turtle? Doesn't work the same way because of the far more interesting economic system. Most pure SC2 strats would probably be terrible in SB. The game forces players to spread out, which is the whole idea, avilo nearly won vs crank using a 3 base turtle a move deathball. I think starbow is great too, but there are very likely many things not abused right now that will "break" the game. Truth is all the games casted right now are BW-esque cause most of these higher lvl players did play BW, that doesn't mean that it is the best possible way though, there are just so many things that are different. | ||
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jotmang
Korea (South)16 Posts
Why make drastic changes that can affect your job security when he can point to the stats when his boss calls him in and tell him "the game is balanced, look at the stats." And he's got a follow up goto excuse, "RTS can't compete against MOBA" It's unfortunate that once a company gets big, CYAs will always climb the ladder faster than real innovators and visionaries. Even if something like StarBow gets big CYAs will find a way to take the credit for it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 14 2014 21:52 Wombat_NI wrote: David Kim is anything but a 'cover your ass' as he is pretty much the vocal point for everyone's balance and design bitching because he's the only one that puts his head above the parapet yes, if anything he's the scapegoat | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On January 14 2014 21:28 The_Red_Viper wrote: avilo nearly won vs crank using a 3 base turtle a move deathball. I think starbow is great too, but there are very likely many things not abused right now that will "break" the game. Truth is all the games casted right now are BW-esque cause most of these higher lvl players did play BW, that doesn't mean that it is the best possible way though, there are just so many things that are different. Its a 3 base timing... and you can't a move the Terran deathabll because of siege tanks... It just doesn't work like that Im afraid. The fact of the matter is that if the game's fundamentals are solid e.g. like BW, its much easier to bring back the game from being broke to not being broke unlike SC2 which is undeniably a cluster**** of a design mess. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
Pretty much. Browder went off the grid to work on Heroes of the Storm, so D. Kim's the only one left to talk to us and for people to yell at. He's the Ghostcrawler of SC2, basically. | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
SC2 has too many Design flaws. There were way more skill moves in BW than in SC2. I'm looking foward to the development of SB  | ||
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jotmang
Korea (South)16 Posts
That's not scapegoating, it's PR. He's doing such a good job of being the yesman that he got promoted FFS. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 14 2014 22:19 jotmang wrote: I beg to differ. He tows the company line to the letter and deflects any community input with stonewalling and lame excuses. How many times has he said "we value your contribution" and "we are investigating it..." only to have nothing come of it. That's not scapegoating, it's PR. He's doing such a good job of being the yesman that he got promoted FFS. You do realise he's an employee yes? Your complaints are fairly ridiculous | ||
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
That`s not to say DK is off the hook though, I expect more out of the reveal of LOTV. Not just new units for each race, but a good hard look at the game as a whole. we shall see what the futur holds. | ||
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
On January 14 2014 20:34 Grumbels wrote: Yeah, I definitely agree with this. It's pretty much a placebo effect, where people are playing the way they've been told it's supposed to be played. It's really no different than everybody on ladder copying a pro's build after a cool game.It's not fair though, since the players are deliberately using BW strategies. Of course it's going to look like BW. I want to see more SC2 oriented players try their luck, to see if they'll still tend towards positional play. We'll see how that holds up if Starbow gets popular enough to have tournaments with non-negligible amounts of money on the line. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On January 14 2014 22:33 RampancyTW wrote: Yeah, I definitely agree with this. It's pretty much a placebo effect, where people are playing the way they've been told it's supposed to be played. It's really no different than everybody on ladder copying a pro's build after a cool game. We'll see how that holds up if Starbow gets popular enough to have tournaments with non-negligible amounts of money on the line. SC2 was played deathball style from the moment WOL BETA was lunched, especially Protoss. There is no question that Starbow has a much better anti deathball design, economy system, etc. And you can't call it Placebo effect until you can prove it ... unless you've already made your mind up without evidence, and this makes you a hater. PEACE! | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 14 2014 22:46 Sapphire.lux wrote: SC2 was played deathball style from the moment WOL BETA was lunched, especially Protoss. There is no question that Starbow has a much better anti deathball design, economy system, etc. And you can't call it Placebo effect until you can prove it ... unless you've already made your mind up without evidence, and this makes you a hater. PEACE! Well, if you are fair there is a lot of stuff in Starbow casts being overhyped because it's unexplored, while in SC2 games often stuff goes on and the casters don't even mention that there are a bunch of unit pokes around enemy bases/army, because they won't attack because these days the plays know the outcome of that. SC2 is by far not as deathbally as people make it sound, it's basically TvP that has a huge focus on "that one" battle, while in all the other matchups you will find so much more going on that hugely influences the game. | ||
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