EPTYou do know that Adam helped the dota team, Speed gaming get plane tickets home after their manager had a full public melt down? And he went to bat for them on reddit when their manager decided to trash talk them after winning MLG. He didn't need to do either. How is that not passionate?
Starcraft 2 returns to MLG - Page 27
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
You do know that Adam helped the dota team, Speed gaming get plane tickets home after their manager had a full public melt down? And he went to bat for them on reddit when their manager decided to trash talk them after winning MLG. He didn't need to do either. How is that not passionate? | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Dude lay off the dude's cock. Christ, you are so caught up looking at MLG in a bad light that you seem to forget all the GOOD actions MLG Adam and his staff have done for SC2. Remember how they fucked up in their first SC2 MLG? Then the next tournament they came back with a vengeance because they knew SC2 was important to the community. Sundance would always try to pull strings and do shit the SC2 community wanted. They always listened and did great work. Yeah, it sucks they dropped SC2 and they messed up that Gold membership stuff, but labeling them all as phony gamers with no passion? Where do you find such immature generalizations? How can someone who works in Esports on such a scale as MLG have no passion for gaming? More than most of us. So stop with the stupid judgments because it is embarrassing to see you hating on them when they are trying to bring SC2 back. And, it is NOT their fault that SC2 was not bringing in numbers and was declining from the WoL era. | ||
MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
However, things changed, things outside of our control. We tried to adapt and shift on a dime, but lead time, available resources, and the inability to achieve something that at the time was unachievable spelled our 'doom'. However, please don't say we were never passionate about the community. We might have fallen but that does not mean we didn't care. When I put my name on something I like to do it right. Hopefully we can do a better job keeping you guys informed and involved moving forward as its obvious we did a horrific job previously. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:23 Golgotha wrote: Dude lay off the dude's cock. Christ, you are so caught up looking at MLG in a bad light that you seem to forget all the GOOD actions MLG Adam and his staff have done for SC2. Remember how they fucked up in their first SC2 MLG? Then the next tournament they came back with a vengeance because they knew SC2 was important to the community. Sundance would always try to pull strings and do shit the SC2 community wanted. They always listened and did great work. Yeah, it sucks they dropped SC2 and they messed up that Gold membership stuff, but labeling them all as phony gamers with no passion? Where do you find such immature generalizations? How can someone who works in Esports on such a scale as MLG have no passion for gaming? More than most of us. So stop with the stupid judgments because it is embarrassing to see you hating on them when they are trying to bring SC2 back. And, it is NOT their fault that SC2 was not bringing in numbers and was declining from the WoL era. I ran my own grassroots events before I ever met Sunny and Mike. I had a nearly full ride to law school waiting for me but I turned it down to roll the dice on a job offer from MLG...their first employee after the co founders. I care way more than I should about the brand we have built, the community we have helped create, and the product we put on. I certainly want a profitable business, but I also want to create something that people enjoy. That is why I work 100+ hours during an event week. It is complete passion for what I do. | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example. ps: Can I please get the contact ID´s of your venture capital people? I have a lot of Ideas that will never work but I would like to try it for at least 10 years. <3 | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has again to take venture capital to stay alive right? BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already. This is a pretty rude post and grossly misinformed. Because we took venture capital money we were 'burning it' which denotes spending it unwisely. I'm sure our board of directors and investors would not appreciate that. When a company is 'not profitable' it does not mean hemorrhaging money. We have always been close on a P&L level to being profitable. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has to take venture capital to stay alive right...again? BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example. We have a expert of venture capital on out hands here, folks. When people were saying that there are parts of the community that are fustrating to deal with, they were talking about this guy. | ||
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GoSuChicken
Germany1726 Posts
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has to take venture capital to stay alive right...again? BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example. ps: Can I please get the contact ID´s of your venture capital people? I have a lot of Ideas that will never work but I would like to try it for at least 10 years. <3 So you've had a look at MLG's financials yourself or is this more of your now infamous random uninformed bashing of a company trying to help the scene? | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Erm, do you know anyone else who has been responding to so many stupid and many insulting questions as Adam in the community? And do you know long he has been doing this? Maybe the entire MLG isn't like him, but it is clear that there are people at MLG who are really passionate, and Adam is one of them. MLG has made mistakes in the past, but they have also revolutionized the esports scene in many games. Yes, MLG do try and push you to buy/pay for their content, but I mean in this industry it's necessary. They have tried different models, try a PPV, etc. But in the end, there aren't any scams MLG has tried to do, probably some complications that didn't turn out the way they had hoped, in where they didn't respond correctly. Surely you are also not including all the good MLG has done. They have the best crowds, they treat players very well with nice hotels, they pay winnings right away. And offer a very complete package. They do offer a premium esport product, and some people want that premium esport content... I suppose they do charge a decent amount for their content opposed to others. But all this stuff costs a lot to make, and some people want to watch premium tournaments and not mediocre production etc. I want that, and I'm willing to pay for it. Hockey, football, tennis would not have very good production if there weren't people that would spend $150 to see games live. People who pay to watch UFC, etc. MLG always tries to set the bar, and actually monetize it, just like how conventional sports are monetized. I would say out of any western company, MLG does the best job to bringing games to the way many sports operate. It's more costly, but I think it's better. Brings more legitimacy as well as more entertainment. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:40 Darkhoarse wrote: So you've had a look at MLG's financials yourself or is this more of your now infamous random uninformed bashing of a company trying to help the scene? Earnings hardly tell the whole story for why people invest in a company. Amazon's basically negative as often as it is positive these days (after what? ~10 years post-IPO of being negative?). So ya, it's just a random uninformed bash. In any case, this thread is turning into a really strange flame war... | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Fuck those kind of people. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls. Fuck those kind of people. But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:49 Plansix wrote: But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes. And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls. Fuck those kind of people. Well I hope your post wasn't directed at me, because I've spent many, many dimes on the scene. I put my hard earned money into SC2, and then I got ripped off because of a bait and switch scheme... if MLG was seriously passionate about the SC2 community, they wouldn't have done that. Even Alex Garfield called them out for it ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311778 ). And that isn't the only incident. So yeah, fuck me, fuck those people who expect to get what they pay for. Fuck them for being mad MLG ripped em off... This isn't a joke TB. This is people's money, and this is the credibility of E-Sports. Listen, I'm excited about MLG returning, read at my posts, look at my post history. But as I said, let's not pretend this is the second coming of Christ. Let's be happy, and wary. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:51 TotalBiscuit wrote: And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey. I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied. I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ... | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:54 BronzeKnee wrote: Well I hope your post wasn't directed at me, because I've spent many, many dimes on the scene. I put my hard earned money into SC2, and then I got ripped off because of a bait and switch scheme... if MLG was seriously passionate about the SC2 community, they wouldn't have done that. Even Alex Garfield called them out for it. And that isn't the only incident. So yeah, fuck me, fuck those people who expect to get what they pay for. Fuck them for being mad MLG ripped em off... Listen, I'm excited about MLG returning, read at my posts, look at my post history. But as I said, let's not pretend this is the second coming of Christ. Let's be happy, and wary. Alex did not say it was a bait and switch, he was mad that his players would be behind a pay wall; he has sponsors to worry about (rightly so) As to the bait and switch thing, that is not accurate. We sold gold membership with X amount of events announced. We rolled in arenas later creating a new product. We can debate this all day and we would both make good points, but at the end of the day I doubt we'll ever agree. My only point was it was not an intentional f you to customers. Have a great day. | ||
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tadL
Croatia679 Posts
I know you have to do this and I am not angry its your job. The only reason MLG still exists is because you have someone in your company that can rise venture capital over and over again. This I respect. But it also shows that you never understood how to make money with eSport like other companies in this industry. Ofc being an US company sucks in terms of esport for many reasons. Infrastructure to just take one example. I get it. And I also get why MLG is trying to sell everything positive and as a gift. Saying it in a way that is also true but not as positive is bad marketing (?), I get it. And I bet helping streamers to get a shedule out to maximase "their" profit is such a thing. Ofc its just for the best of the "streamer" right? But dont try this PR nonsense with me please. Lets better hope the investors or venture capital people dont just do the usual thing. Cut a company in parts to sell as much of it and get some money back. And I hope you have a business running and you are not relaying on Riot to pay a lot of your bills. And lets hope you make a good job for the next event to improve the streaming viewer experience if no game is running. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 06:04 tadL wrote: Close to means what? You never reached it, you barely reached it, you made 1 dollar? Or does it just mean nothing but you have to say something without really answering to a question? I know you have to do this and I am not angry its your job. The only reason MLG still exists is because you have someone in your company that can rise venture capital over and over again. This I respect. But it also shows that you never understood how to make money with eSport like other companies in this industry. Ofc being an US company sucks in terms of esport for many reasons. Infrastructure to just take one example. I get it. And I also get why MLG is trying to sell everything positive and as a gift. Saying it in a way that is also true but not as positive is bad marketing (?), I get it. And I bet helping streamers to get a shedule out to maximase "their" profit is such a thing. Ofc its just for the best of the "streamer" right? But dont try this PR nonsense with me please. Lets better hope the investors or venture capital people dont just do the usual thing. Cut a company in parts to sell as much of it and get some money back. And I hope you have a business running and you are not relaying on Riot to pay a lot of your bills. And lets hope you make a good job for the next event to improve the streaming viewer experience if no game is running. Are you serious? We received investment money because what were doing was profitable and had potential for exponential growth. The model is difficult to predict when you take something smaller, infuse capital into it, and hope the ROI is there. We are still figuring it out, but to say that we're only alive because we received venture capital is wrong. We received venture capital because we saw potential to grow our successful business into something else. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:54 FiWiFaKi wrote: I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied. I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ... Anyone who's done statistical work knows that it's crucial to get opinions from people whether they want to give them or not rather than just relying on people opt-ing in. And that's because people with strong-feelings are much, much more likely to opt-in. This isn't just pop-psychology, but something study after study has proven how voluntary feedback can lead to skewed results. So ya, forums aren't just good at finding the vocal minority, they basically *are* the vocal minority. Now, I'm not sure if there's a reason or bias towards unhappy/negativity when it comes to having strong feelings since the key word is 'strong' feelings. Edit: Of course forums aren't exactly surveys, but similar concept I think for people who decide to post / those who lurk. | ||
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