EPTStarcraft 2 returns to MLG - Page 26
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Otherwise I won't be able to use those Protoss beer mugs my fiancé got me. | ||
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Doneyear
United States111 Posts
Off topic (sort of) because I can not find much info on this, but for DotA2 (which as practically all of us said, was amazing at Columbus) are there going to be invites and 1 qualifier for NA teams or are you going to strictly qualifiers/invites? This is for Anaheim, of course. | ||
MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 02:34 Doneyear wrote: Great to see SC2 at MLG again! Off topic (sort of) because I can not find much info on this, but for DotA2 (which as practically all of us said, was amazing at Columbus) are there going to be invites and 1 qualifier for NA teams or are you going to strictly qualifiers/invites? This is for Anaheim, of course. #soon | ||
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Comadevil
Germany214 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:33 MLG_Adam wrote: The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you. At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2. Thanks for the honest answer and ur explanation. Well i don't follow the DOTA scene since dota is not my cup of tea. But i am looking forward to ur new style of communication. I hope u improve ur PR by a lot and i don't need a fluff PR or share the opinion that u shoud not treat the community as adults. It is just that u have to judge better what an impact a tweet/news can create if something is important is left out or not explained to a certain extend. If u would have tweeted and made a news that SC2 will not be present at Columbus because of a colliding big event but u will continue to support it (even if on a lower scale) there wouldn't have been so much irritation and upheaval in the community.I know that u tweeted a few days later that it does not mean u would drop SC2 support entirely but that was just crashed by the wave of anger which u caused before. And u really didn't try to correct this notion later especially after the departure of Axeltoss and Axslav. I acknowledge u came a long way and improved over the years dramatically. I watched even 2010 MLG SC2 event(s) when the stream was really a pain in the a**. So improve ur PR/communication and organize good SC2 tournaments and people will cease rambling about MLG and maybe u can show and convince people by that u are as passionate as ESL and DH  | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:33 MLG_Adam wrote: The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you. At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2. Thanks for speaking up so freely on the forum, it is much appreciated. I for one long for the good old early WoL days with AM + EU participants. I can't imagine MLG without the naniwas from europe. Those were the days! | ||
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
to prove TB that he is wrong about his opinion that an NA only tournament is not profitable What a gross oversimplification of my actual opinion on the subject. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
As for this announcement, I think it is very good news. I am quite shocked that people say that it'd be okay if you cut back support for Starcraft, but still supported it. I don't think MLG has time to host small events that attract very few viewers with prize pools of a few hundred dollars. I think better communication would have been very good, and it has been addressed already. People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly. The truth is, that almost no SC2 events actually earn a worthwhile rate or return, and so, usually the people who run the events run them at a loss, or from support of Blizzard. This is the case with Shoutcraft, WCS, Redbull, etc... The only companies that I feel that actually turn a profit are likely ESL and Dreamhack, and especially Dreamhack feel like community events and not tournaments. Dreamhack is ran for the players, and well ESL I don't think is handled by the smartest people. Now MLG, they are really cool guys. They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do. The events they put out are some of the best in esports, it's clear that the skills they possess surpass the producers of other content. If a game becomes large enough, and the audience for it is right, MLG will be one of the first companies that will be able to turn a profit on it, because it's skilled at what they do and they know how to bring the viewers in. I am quite curious how this event will go, because truthfully, this event will likely bring in 20k-60k concurrent viewers which with that many viewers will be a pretty breakeven investment for the effort. When I looked through the breakdown of cost for the Shoutcraft, it did not break even, but this event will have a slightly smaller prize pool, a few more viewers, and also I think MLG has pretty sponsor affiliations to bring in more revenue, but still, I don't see anything huge happening. The problem is see, is if MLG tries to expand this. As someone who has been following SC2, Dota, Broodwar, and have been visiting this site since 2007, there is in zero possibility this event can be expanded to say a 25k prize pool 2-3 day live event. Do we remember back in 2010 and 2011 when MLG was getting 100k-150k concurrent viewers for SC2 with 25k prize pools? That was having the best players, pretty much the most anticipated events in SC2, and the success of it is still quite questionable. Now the WCS NA finals brought in like 40k viewers. And WCS Finals brought in 80k or so. This is a lot less than the concurrents that MLG was bringing in before. So my question for you MLGAdam, is what direction are you guys trying to take with this? Do you believe that these live 2-3 day live events are viable with these many viewers? In my eyes it doesn't make much sense to go offline unless the prize pool exceeds $10,000 or so. Do you believe events of these magnitude are sustainable in the long-term? If not, do you plan to hold smaller 2k-5k online events, or is that something too small for the scale you guys work at? Thank you! Sorry if my post hopped around a lot, there is really a lot to discuss what's happening and I didn't want to make a really long comment. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 03:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: Coma Devil, please please don't type "you" or "your", as "u" and "ur" on Teamliquid... Especially to Adam. I know it's not in my authority to say that, but it really irks me and makes the site appear less professional. As for this announcement, I think it is very good news. I am quite shocked that people say that it'd be okay if you cut back support for Starcraft, but still supported it. I don't think MLG has time to host small events that attract very few viewers with prize pools of a few hundred dollars. I think better communication would have been very good, and it has been addressed already. People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly. The truth is, that almost no SC2 events actually earn a worthwhile rate or return, and so, usually the people who run the events run them at a loss, or from support of Blizzard. This is the case with Shoutcraft, WCS, Redbull, etc... The only companies that I feel that actually turn a profit are likely ESL and Dreamhack, and especially Dreamhack feel like community events and not tournaments. Dreamhack is ran for the players, and well ESL I don't think is handled by the smartest people. Now MLG, they are really cool guys. They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do. The events they put out are some of the best in esports, it's clear that the skills they possess surpass the producers of other content. If a game becomes large enough, and the audience for it is right, MLG will be one of the first companies that will be able to turn a profit on it, because it's skilled at what they do and they know how to bring the viewers in. I am quite curious how this event will go, because truthfully, this event will likely bring in 20k-60k concurrent viewers which with that many viewers will be a pretty breakeven investment for the effort. When I looked through the breakdown of cost for the Shoutcraft, it did not break even, but this event will have a slightly smaller prize pool, a few more viewers, and also I think MLG has pretty sponsor affiliations to bring in more revenue, but still, I don't see anything huge happening. The problem is see, is if MLG tries to expand this. As someone who has been following SC2, Dota, Broodwar, and have been visiting this site since 2007, there is in zero possibility this event can be expanded to say a 25k prize pool 2-3 day live event. Do we remember back in 2010 and 2011 when MLG was getting 100k-150k concurrent viewers for SC2 with 25k prize pools? That was having the best players, pretty much the most anticipated events in SC2, and the success of it is still quite questionable. Now the WCS NA finals brought in like 40k viewers. And WCS Finals brought in 80k or so. This is a lot less than the concurrents that MLG was bringing in before. So my question for you MLGAdam, is what direction are you guys trying to take with this? Do you believe that these live 2-3 day live events are viable with these many viewers? In my eyes it doesn't make much sense to go offline unless the prize pool exceeds $10,000 or so. Do you believe events of these magnitude are sustainable in the long-term? If not, do you plan to hold smaller 2k-5k online events, or is that something too small for the scale you guys work at? Thank you! Sorry if my post hopped around a lot, there is really a lot to discuss what's happening and I didn't want to make a really long comment. For starters we ended 2013 with 2 quarters of profitability, a milestone. This is all due to utilizing our own player. Second, there will be large LANs for SC2 in North America this year. I have already announced a large one in Anaheim June 20-22 and I have another one I'm planning prior (not a Pro Circuit event, but something else...). With the use of our player we are able to control our product and monetize it better. As a content creator that spends millions of dollars annually to actually produce content, it made no business sense to let someone else distribute it and monetize it. Even with modest #s SC2 will be a profitable endeavor. I have big plans and they will be done hand in hand with practical common sense and community interaction. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On January 10 2014 03:23 TotalBiscuit wrote: What a gross oversimplification of my actual opinion on the subject. Don't feed the trolls man. Anyone who's followed SHOUTcraft AM or read your posts knows your opinion on the subject. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On January 10 2014 03:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly... Now MLG, they are really cool guys... They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do... This is getting out of control. Let's not pretend that MLG returning to SC2 is the second coming of Christ, and they did no wrong before. And I say this, as an MLG Gold Member, who thinks MLG events are the best events out there, with the most excitement and would love to attend one. In fact, when we had to cut our expenses, I stopped buying GSL tickets, and tickets to other events, and only purchased MLG Gold Memberships and tickets. Most of the logical hate directed at MLG has nothing to do the fact their events are awesome, or that they are company trying to make money. It has to do with their shady business practices. They are not cool and passionate gamers, they are hardly professional and have proven to be downright devious. And as an MLG Gold Member, I remember the drama when MLG "changed" formats and left Gold Members in the dust. Suddenly, we couldn't view Arena's without paying. It was classic bait and switch. They sold Gold Memberships that allowed people to access to "Pro Circuit HQ Streams" then told us we'd have to pay for Arenas, because Arena's weren't part of the Pro Circuit! ![[image loading]](http://reflectzyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mlg-league-memberships-e1308792765245.png) Oh really MLG? Arena's aren't part of the Pro Circuit? Let's see how you advertised it: Yeah... I'm not going to go it into that anymore. It was wrong. And it alienated their best customers, Silver and Gold Members. More here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311778 Later, they announced that SC2 won't be part of their next big event (Colombus, 2013) and are intentionally sly about whether or not SC2 will return. Really no one knew? Look at this post: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ayDSSZT.png) Fact is, had they known they were done or weren't with SC2, they would have told us. But MLG was waiting to see which way the wind blew in terms of their business to see if it makes sense. That is fine, but tell us, it'd be the professional thing to do. And the real problem here is that MLG pretends to be part of the community, and invested in the community as if they are "passionate gamers" but then when the business climate changes, they are first to head to the hills. Just like they've done with other titles in the past. They pretend they are passionate about the community, but they are here for money and that is why people "dislike MLG because it wants to make money," because they are disingenuous. If they were open and honest about, it'd be different (and they wouldn't have screwed over their Gold Members or bailed on SC2 when the community was bleeding if they actually cared about the community...)... but they pretend to care and ask the community for favors, like people buying their PPV... then bail when conditions aren't good. MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2. But, of course, MLG is happy to pretend to be if it makes them money. There are some other issues (which I can elaborate on if need be) that make me question the passion and professionalism of MLG toward SC2, but overall I'm happy we'll be getting more SC2 content from them, because what they do produce is very good. Just don't forget their past; it wasn't all sunshine and roses. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances. Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too. But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't. As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2. | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:06 BronzeKnee wrote: Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too. But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't. As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2. How do you know what I'm passionate about? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:10 MLG_Adam wrote: How do you know what I'm passionate about? By your actions. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 10 2014 05:06 BronzeKnee wrote: Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too. But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't. As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2. I think people can call them whatever they want and they are entitled to do so. I think they are and that they really care about the games and the people involved in SC2 and dota. You might not agree, but that isn't going to change my mind. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
Thanks | ||
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MLG_Adam
United States994 Posts
So 4 years of event activity, of treating the players extremely well, of trying our best to service the fans (sometimes without self awareness, admittedly), etc. is not factored into the equation of 'your actions'? | ||
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