From the MLG website. It seems SC2 will be back this year in Anaheim.
I’m happy to announce that we are bringing back StarCraft 2 starting with the MLG GameOn Invitational January 19-26, continuing with additional online competition, and culminating with the MLG Championship in Anaheim, CA from June 20-22. Our activity will kick off with the GameOn Invitational where 16 players from the Americas, including 12 invited players and four players voted in by you, the fans, will compete for $5000. Voting will open on January 13 – see details below.
The background: After taking a close look at the SC2 activity in 2013, we wanted to build something in 2014 that the SC2 community needed and wanted. We all follow the major tournaments in Europe, the team leagues in Korea, and the overarching WCS, but we realized that outside of Shoutcraft America, the Americas have very little in the way of online or offline competition. So we began asking players if they would be interested in Americas-only competition. Not surprisingly, the response was a resounding, unanimous, YES. Next, we reached out to Catz to help organize something great, and we decided to launch with GameOn, an Americas-only competition platform. Lastly, Catz brought Destiny onto the team as our co-caster and we were off and running.
We recognize that in the past we were not as transparent and communicative as we should’ve been. We’ve learned that community interaction and involvement is essential in creating a successful tournament scene. Therefore, in the spirit of transparency, we want you to know that we are operating this Invitational as a test. We intend to use the feedback that you provide throughout this activity to help us design competition for February through May that will ultimately be used to qualify players into Pool Play at the MLG Championship in Anaheim. Full Championship details, including the size of the Open Bracket, are coming soon!
We really want to work towards creating something that is enjoyable to watch, fun for players, and helps to develop talent within the Americas. We’ll be reading and incorporating feedback throughout the planning and execution of this activity. Help us build something great!
I’ve included the breakdown for the MLG GameOn Invitational below. Stay tuned for information and thank you for your support.
Vindication folks. It's time to go back to where it all started!
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
Of course we expect to make money, we're a damn business not a charity. Why is this even in question? If eSports companies don't make money they don't stay open.
Does Sundance feel bad about the way they announce that SC2 would not be at Columbus?
From Sundance:
That was sloppy and unprofessional and 100% my fault. I allowed my personal frustration to overwhelm me and responded to one of the many people who were asking me for an update with an ill advised tweet. I'm not expecting anyone to understand nor am I expecting it to be forgiven - I just want to apologize for how I personally handled it. There was a ton happening behind the scenes that led to my frustration but that doesn't make it ok. I fucked up MASSIVELY, which I do from time to time. Hopefully I'm a better person and learned from it. Time will tell. Anyway - I'm excited about this. We're taking it very serious and I promise to try not to fuck up so majorly again (however, smaller fuck ups from me are almost guaranteed) Hope to see some of you at Anaheim. -sd
Also, it should be pointed out that this is just one event and MLG has not announced their full calendar. Adam was hinting at some future dates, maybe around this PAX thing.
This post on MLG's web site leads me to believe that they have more in mind as well. This is great news, and though I wasn't as skeptical as some people, I kind of wondered when and how MLG would come back to SC2. This sounds great so far.
Sounds great! I hope the NA players take this tournament more seriously than the WCS AM and the last Shoutcraft. I really like Catz's casting and I remember Destiny being pretty good at it, too. So that is another plus.
I had to laugh a bit at that part though: "We’ve learned that community interaction and involvement is essential in creating a successful tournament scene." :D
Never a fan of fan voting in players, the more qualifiers that are played the better as far as I'm concerned, especially since one of the primary goals of even having a regional tournament like this is to foster the talent pool of the area.
On January 09 2014 05:07 Zealously wrote: This post on MLG's web site leads me to believe that they have more in mind as well. This is great news, and though I wasn't as skeptical as some people, I kind of wondered when and how MLG would come back to SC2. This sounds great so far.
They're downsizing it for sure, both in terms of prize pool money and in terms of tournament size but I think in the long run that might be better for everyone especially with the WCS already firmly rooted as the premier competition.
I like this move overall for MLG, I just don't like community voting in of players, but I think that's a position they can turn around eventually.
Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
I am so happy =D There is nothing like following MLG's open bracket and seeing upsets. But I realize they might not bring that back. Still it's a start.
On January 09 2014 05:15 JacobShock wrote: I am so happy =D There is nothing like following MLG's open bracket and seeing upsets. But I realize they might not bring that back. Still it's a start.
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
Unless you mean something else, Adam seems to imply that there'll be an Open Bracket.
I'm so excited, this is truly some amazing shit. Can't wait to see who's playing, don't really care though, it's going to be fantastic. Gimme some QXC, gimme some Vibe, gimme some Minigun. Gimme some NA pros. So psyched.
On January 09 2014 05:09 Niko_Thien wrote: Sounds great! I hope the NA players take this tournament more seriously than the WCS AM and the last Shoutcraft. I really like Catz's casting and I remember Destiny being pretty good at it, too. So that is another plus.
I had to laugh a bit at that part though: "We’ve learned that community interaction and involvement is essential in creating a successful tournament scene." :D
Agreed. I'd be hesitant about throwing more money at the NA scene. But good for MLG for stepping up and making the investment.
Good to know that MLG will come back to sc2! And, with the lack of tournaments for american players, I believe that foreigner only tourneys can be really good, and even more with the personalities of some of the AM players! Ok, it won't be KR level play, but it can still make for some fun games!
MLG is returning? WITH AN OPEN BRACKET?! Prayers answered SC2 with miraculous recovery. Possibly too soon to say that but this is at least a good sign.
Also notice guys, this is the first 5 days test run. Things like qualifiers or prizepool distribution can be improved in februaury - may and I'm optimistic since Catz and Destiny can give their input.
. Next, we reached out to Catz to help organize something great, and we decided to launch with GameOn, an Americas-only competition platform. Lastly, Catz brought Destiny onto the team as our co-caster and we were off and running.
I already knew that they weren't done when they announced sc2 wouldn't be at the last MLG.
However, can I just say THANK YOU MLG! I have been watching MLG since late 2007 and they have kicked the two games I original tuned in for: Halo and Shadowrun. Gladly they picked up SC2 as they dropped Halo and I switched with MLG. I have literally watched every single event since 07 and I even paid 20 bucks to watch the SC2 Arenas simply because I love MLG, hell I originally had to stay up till 3 a.m. to watch the START of any west coast competition back in 08/09. Yet as I dislike MOBAs and COD I literally had no reason to tune in at MLG's last event and for the first time in 7ish years I did not watch which saddened me greatly. So thanks for picking a game up again that is worth watching for me. Can't wait for Anaheim, gonna be the sickest of sick weekends.
Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Their "snarky" comments on twitter usually show up after being harassed constantly about removing SC2 for business reasons. One can sympathize.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Their dota 2 event was great. SC2 will be great too. Have faith.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
Yeah was just thinking about the Axbros, then I saw the tweet. Kinda sad, but I guess Catz and Destiny will bring more viewers. I hope they find something, maybe they can even help out with this.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
What he is being totally honest and it's true? What if you are looking for something that's not there!
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Frankly, I'd say the TL and Reddit communities have done their utmost to burn every bridge they ever cross. If anything, the whole MLG episode has shown a lot of communication issues on their side, and that the SC community deserves almost none of the respect that people feel entitled to.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
Totally, it would not be the first lie coming from MLG. Let's not forget that. The last Dota 2 tournament was entertaining though, but that's no surprise. MLG only fucks up their online stuff. The events have always been very watchable.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
Of course we expect to make money, we're a damn business not a charity. Why is this even in question? If eSports companies don't make money they don't stay open.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
Sadly? The fuck? You want them to run a tournament KNOWING they won't make money off of it? What kind of business can operate like that?
Seems like you expect MLG to just dump money into foreign SC2 and ask for nothing in return, which is beyond unreasonable.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
Yeah, it's called being a responsible business and making sure that they can take care of the people that work for them. It's always been about money and that's not a bad thing.
Meh. MLG bubble burst for me. I thought they were done fucking over franchises. Now we're supposed to be happy they have it back? Couldn't care less. MLG only rides hype trains and doesn't want to build a lasting base for their touring events which should be their core.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
I don't see the "sadly" part of this. MLG is a business and although I love what they've done with their circuit in the past, they can't reasonably be expected to run a charity. If they don't think shelling out $200k for a tournament will get them the money back, then they probably shouldn't shell out $200k. The fact that they're back to running SC2 at all after the overwhelming negativity following SC2's absence from their last tournament is mildly surprising to me, actually.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
We knew in June via Rob that they were planning to operate Redbull that weekend. We spoke at length about it and opted not to operate, it did not make sense. If you think I liked having our fewest titles at an event in 5 years, you're wrong.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Their dota 2 event was great. SC2 will be great too. Have faith.
I think I'm most excited that they won't be using Twitch. They have their own streaming platform now, yeah?
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
We knew in June via Rob that they were planning to operate Redbull that weekend. We spoke at length about it and opted not to operate, it did not make sense. If you think I liked having our fewest titles at an event in 5 years, you're wrong.
Thats what I was looking for, thank you. That bit of information have not been out there.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
On January 09 2014 05:35 artosismermaid wrote: you don't just take your gf back after she dumped you like that, you have to earn it mlg
What the fuck are you talking about? They don't have to "earn" anything, they're running a damn video game tournament that might not even get them the money back. What exactly do you propose they do to "earn it"?
I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
Sadly? The fuck? You want them to run a tournament KNOWING they won't make money off of it? What kind of business can operate like that?
Seems like you expect MLG to just dump money into foreign SC2 and ask for nothing in return, which is beyond unreasonable.
Theres a big difference on MIGHT making the money back and KNOWING they they are not going to make a cent back. How about reading the post I'm replying to and not only my answer?
On January 09 2014 05:47 Thrill wrote: Meh. MLG bubble burst for me. I thought they were done fucking over franchises. Now we're supposed to be happy they have it back? Couldn't care less. MLG only rides hype trains and doesn't want to build a lasting base for their touring events which should be their core.
Let me give you a little breakdown.
Any prize giving tournament run by MLG regardless of system or future tournaments > no tournaments run by MLG
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Their dota 2 event was great. SC2 will be great too. Have faith.
I think I'm most excited that they won't be using Twitch. They have their own streaming platform now, yeah?
Yes and they need a roku ap ASAP, so I can buy a roku.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Their dota 2 event was great. SC2 will be great too. Have faith.
I think I'm most excited that they won't be using Twitch. They have their own streaming platform now, yeah?
Yes and they need a roku ap ASAP, so I can buy a roku.
Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Except I knew that fact 6+ months ago, along with a lot of other people. Adam has said it over and over.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Which by extension is also why it's unwise to make statements assuming what we know is the full truth.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Except I knew that fact 6+ months ago, along with a lot of other people. Adam has said it over and over.
Link me a news article stating that they talked about it and MLG decided not to do it on that date.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Except I knew that fact 6+ months ago, along with a lot of other people. Adam has said it over and over.
Link me a news article stating that they talked about it and MLG decided not to do it on that date.
Why does it have to be a news article? That's an oddly specific request.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Except I knew that fact 6+ months ago, along with a lot of other people. Adam has said it over and over.
Link me a news article stating that they talked about it and MLG decided not to do it on that date.
Are you really this thick? You're the one making ridiculous and unfounded claims, btw. Where is YOUR proof?
Anyway, back to being way too happy about SC2 being back at MLG. Screw the haters.
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
On January 09 2014 05:59 StorMsc2 wrote: Too bad its NA only But I´m really glad they brought it back on the flip side! SC2 Rebirth?
Maybe I'm wrong, but as far I can see it's only been confirmed that the online thing is NA only. The championship, judging from Adam's comments here, will have an open bracket. Open brackets usually mean Koreans.
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
This is pretty badass. A lot of people including myself were pretty annoyed with how MLG was handling the sc2 stuff, especially dropping the Ax Bros, as well as when Violet needed some sort of testimony MLG refused to help with the visa decision. But this is awesome, I've always loved MLG's events, they're some of the best and funnest I've been to, and hope this works out for them and we get more in the future! Bring on the MLG sc2 America's baby!
awesme and thy have way better casters this time all mlg content use to drive me mad havng to listen to the lisp all the time. hope destiny goes about this in a profesional way he is really good when hes not being a d bag on purpose to create drama
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
Even with WCS, Dreamhack and other tournaments running, it just didn't feel complete without MLG. Hopefully this new outlook on community involvement improves the relationship between MLG and the fans.
On January 09 2014 05:59 StorMsc2 wrote: Too bad its NA only But I´m really glad they brought it back on the flip side! SC2 Rebirth?
Maybe I'm wrong, but as far I can see it's only been confirmed that the online thing is NA only. The championship, judging from Adam's comments here, will have an open bracket. Open brackets usually mean Koreans.
I assume the difference is that MLG won't be fronting money for plane flights from Korea, which means a lot lower saturation of Korean players. Only an assumption on my part, though.
This sounds great! I don't think that the voting part will be very good, it was recently tried by NationWars and spark controversies right away. Since this is not a team event, it might work better, but still... qualifiers means more matches to watch and that makes the whole event double fun!
On January 09 2014 05:59 StorMsc2 wrote: Too bad its NA only But I´m really glad they brought it back on the flip side! SC2 Rebirth?
Maybe I'm wrong, but as far I can see it's only been confirmed that the online thing is NA only. The championship, judging from Adam's comments here, will have an open bracket. Open brackets usually mean Koreans.
I assume the difference is that MLG won't be fronting money for plane flights from Korea, which means a lot lower saturation of Korean players. Only an assumption on my part, though.
The NA players and fans often seem to hate Koreans "sweeping in and stealing their money". I don't know, after everything I've read on the forums about region locking and local growth I'd assume less Koreans = better in that department, but maybe popular opinion changed again.
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
I was curious because the two names you came up with were avilo and MaximusBlack.
Vibe, Minigun, Hendralisk, Kane, Major, JonSnow, State, Illusion, Suppy, Masa, Massan, Goswser, a whole host of unrecognized talent on teams like Clarity and Root's academy (seed). I'm probably even leaving some good players out. I'm excited to see NA players battle it out.
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Except I knew that fact 6+ months ago, along with a lot of other people. Adam has said it over and over.
Link me a news article stating that they talked about it and MLG decided not to do it on that date.
Why does it have to be a news article? That's an oddly specific request.
It can be just a thread as well with the correct information. (ofc no troll post)
On January 09 2014 05:37 Valikyr wrote: Well, still fuck MLG. Great for the american players I guess but the way MLG guys has been snarky about SC2 on twitter and just dropping it completely after it was the game that brought them to new heights leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Adam is still apparently defending that the only reason they couldn't have it for the last Circuit was because of Red Bull being on that same weekend..
Such a shame of a comeback really, telling the crowd about transparency while not holding up on it.
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
I can't spin the answer any other way.
What I'm saying is that if you had planned to host an event on that date you would have booked it.. Instead there was nothing and Red Bull came in and "saved" it.
You're wrong, you don't have your facts straight. Stop trolling up the thread with your nonsense.
It's pretty hard knowing all the facts when you don't work in the company yes...
Except I knew that fact 6+ months ago, along with a lot of other people. Adam has said it over and over.
Link me a news article stating that they talked about it and MLG decided not to do it on that date.
Are you really this thick? You're the one making ridiculous and unfounded claims, btw. Where is YOUR proof?
Anyway, back to being way too happy about SC2 being back at MLG. Screw the haters.
Holy balls take a chill pill for a minute would you here: + Show Spoiler +
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
if people are going to direct their hatred somewhere, point it at blizzard and the WCS for crippling the tournament scene. they essentially put restrictions on all of the tournament organizers that discouraged competition against the WCS. MLG is in the business of making money, fuck them right?
On January 09 2014 06:14 b0ub0u wrote: Question. Is it only NA players playing FPS games (COD, Halo) at MLG too?
If not only NA then why only NA for SC2
I honestly don't think there has ever been a non-North American Halo/COD team at an MLG (correct me if I'm wrong because I don't actually watch those games)
I'm pretty sure only the online event is NA only. The championship in Anaheim will have an Open Bracket.
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
if people are going to direct their hatred somewhere, point it at blizzard and the WCS for crippling the tournament scene. they essentially put restrictions on all of the tournament organizers that discouraged competition against the WCS. MLG is in the business of making money, fuck them right?
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
I was curious because the two names you came up with were avilo and MaximusBlack.
Vibe, Minigun, Hendralisk, Kane, Major, JonSnow, State, Illusion, Suppy, Masa, Massan, Goswser, a whole host of unrecognized talent on teams like Clarity and Root's academy (seed). I'm probably even leaving some good players out. I'm excited to see NA players battle it out.
In the context of Destiny claiming that with proper hype watching two NA masters is the same as watching a GSL game. So Now we'll see.
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
I was curious because the two names you came up with were avilo and MaximusBlack.
Vibe, Minigun, Hendralisk, Kane, Major, JonSnow, State, Illusion, Suppy, Masa, Massan, Goswser, a whole host of unrecognized talent on teams like Clarity and Root's academy (seed). I'm probably even leaving some good players out. I'm excited to see NA players battle it out.
In the context of Destiny claiming that with proper hype watching two NA masters is the same as watching a GSL game. So Now we'll see.
Oh sorry about that I didn't realize you were referencing a quote by Destiny. I hadn't heard that he said that.
I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major, but I have to feel that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am a little worried D:
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
if people are going to direct their hatred somewhere, point it at blizzard and the WCS for crippling the tournament scene. they essentially put restrictions on all of the tournament organizers that discouraged competition against the WCS. MLG is in the business of making money, fuck them right?
So why did Dreamhack succeed?
Money from the Swedish government and a lot of volunteers, that probably helps
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
I was curious because the two names you came up with were avilo and MaximusBlack.
Vibe, Minigun, Hendralisk, Kane, Major, JonSnow, State, Illusion, Suppy, Masa, Massan, Goswser, a whole host of unrecognized talent on teams like Clarity and Root's academy (seed). I'm probably even leaving some good players out. I'm excited to see NA players battle it out.
In the context of Destiny claiming that with proper hype watching two NA masters is the same as watching a GSL game. So Now we'll see.
He never said the hype would be the same, he said the average viewer can't see the difference.
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
still being discussed
Might be a little funny if Polt doesn't participate in MLG considering he is the reigning MLG Champion.
Great to have some awesome news to remove some of the sour taste left in my mouth from the Epik + Startale news of late. This has some great potential and I hope MLG can pull off something really interesting.
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
still being discussed
isn't he a US athlete now?
Technically but it is possible that MLG decides to only allow North American citizens or something.
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
still being discussed
isn't he a US athlete now?
he is an athlete recognized by the US, but still a korean athlete
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
if people are going to direct their hatred somewhere, point it at blizzard and the WCS for crippling the tournament scene. they essentially put restrictions on all of the tournament organizers that discouraged competition against the WCS. MLG is in the business of making money, fuck them right?
So why did Dreamhack succeed?
Money from the Swedish government and a lot of volunteers, that probably helps
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
still being discussed
Might be a little funny if Polt doesn't participate in MLG considering he is the reigning MLG Champion.
He will probably play at the Championship in Anaheim, just the online event is NA only.
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
still being discussed
Might be a little funny if Polt doesn't participate in MLG considering he is the reigning MLG Champion.
On January 09 2014 05:55 ChoDing wrote: Hmm let us see how long it will take MLG to abandon SC2 again. I will give them about 8 months
If MLG were to "abandon" SC2 again, would that be worse for you than them not coming back for a tournament or two at all? I mean people love Iron Squid to hell but they "only" had two tournaments before deciding that it didn't bring in the money necessary. MLG has hosted significantly more than two. I don't get the toxicity about them. Tournaments > no tournaments, right?
if people are going to direct their hatred somewhere, point it at blizzard and the WCS for crippling the tournament scene. they essentially put restrictions on all of the tournament organizers that discouraged competition against the WCS. MLG is in the business of making money, fuck them right?
So why did Dreamhack succeed?
Money from the Swedish government and a lot of volunteers, that probably helps
Damn Swedish government and their love of video games. Still, I think there is room for MLG and WCS.
I'm hoping for violet/polt to be 2 of those players fans can vote for. I am all down for letting them play, but don't give them one of the dedicated invites. Let the fans decide to let the Koreans play, imo.
But if they're invited flat out I'm ok with that too. I like them both, I just want to be sure to see the maximum number of possible NA players, personally.
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
I was curious because the two names you came up with were avilo and MaximusBlack.
Vibe, Minigun, Hendralisk, Kane, Major, JonSnow, State, Illusion, Suppy, Masa, Massan, Goswser, a whole host of unrecognized talent on teams like Clarity and Root's academy (seed). I'm probably even leaving some good players out. I'm excited to see NA players battle it out.
In the context of Destiny claiming that with proper hype watching two NA masters is the same as watching a GSL game. So Now we'll see.
He never said the hype would be the same, he said the average viewer can't see the difference.
...because of the hype from the caster. So now that he is the caster, let the hype begin!
On January 09 2014 06:20 desertfrog817 wrote: I wonder what kind of player will be played I'm hoping for Major lol, but I haven't to fill that Scarlett going to take it also does that mean Polt can or can't play in MLG? I am little worried D:
still being discussed
Might be a little funny if Polt doesn't participate in MLG considering he is the reigning MLG Champion.
this is about the online tourney not mlg anaheim
Ah I see. Understandable.
Interesting dilemma. Do you filter via citizenship or residency? That's the decision they have to come up with.
This is great news but I hope NA players actually take it seriously. WCS AM and Shoutcraft have shown that NA players can be somewhat difficult and pretentious when it comes to competing. Fingers crossed they actually perform well for once!
On January 09 2014 05:51 Sub40APM wrote: Its going to be fun watching Destiny try to hype the Avilo vs. Maximums black final. I guess HuK might show up and take all the easy money, Shoutcraft style.
Do you honestly think there are no good players in NA?
HuK and Scarlett. Who is even close? I thought maybe DeMuslim but this isnt ladder so he is out.
I was curious because the two names you came up with were avilo and MaximusBlack.
Vibe, Minigun, Hendralisk, Kane, Major, JonSnow, State, Illusion, Suppy, Masa, Massan, Goswser, a whole host of unrecognized talent on teams like Clarity and Root's academy (seed). I'm probably even leaving some good players out. I'm excited to see NA players battle it out.
In the context of Destiny claiming that with proper hype watching two NA masters is the same as watching a GSL game. So Now we'll see.
He never said the hype would be the same, he said the average viewer can't see the difference.
...because of the hype from the caster. So now that he is the caster, let the hype begin!
On January 09 2014 06:35 Hood. wrote: Since the details of WCS 2014 have been revealed, do people have an idea if WCS points be on the line at Anaheim?
I think that's highly likely. I'd bet on a Tier 2 event but I obviously don't know.
All the people crying about WCS not supporting the american scene (and then, funny enough, all the sudden praise how their league was the best caus of the koreans, lmao): This is your chance. Tune in. support. Make this succesful. There is NO excuse. Now or never... you know the rest *Trumpets*
Great news following all the negative news we've been hearing lately. It's a breath of fresh air to see something good in the future, and a boon to the NA scene which needs a kick.
There comes a point when you need to define yourself by what you stand by. SC2 is not Halo.
The WCS show was a complete, total and utter failure. They should have just kept on doing what they were doing with LAN events and they would be in a much better spot today.
So glad Riot are doing their own thing rather than making themselves dependent on these plebians.
On January 09 2014 05:02 Plansix wrote: Vindication folks. It's time to go back to where it all started!
i thought it all started with grassroots $100 tourneys during the beta and then more tourneys on July 27,2010.
Once it was clear during the beta that SC2 was going to absolutely kick-ass. then and only then did MLG climb aboard... and even then their first few steps were tentative.
If the "vindication" is due to this being a live event.
Well, The # of live event open bracket weekends MLG holds continues to decline. 6, then 4, last year 3... and their first event this year occurs in June. The time between SC2 @ MLG Live events continues to climb.
Its great to see MLG having an open bracket event. any # of events is better than zero.
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
I played in last year's MLG Anaheim (Losing to KawaiiRice and TumescentPie ;_;), so I'm hype for vengeance.
(Also, it it possible I could find the Chiponyasu vs TumescentPie VOD someday? It was on a community stream, but got taken down....)
Polt grew up in the Bronx across the street from me. His parent's house is right by the Bruckner expressway. The reason he only started learning English recently was because he was homeschooled and spent all his time in Koreatown.
ViOlet is actually my cousin. My granddad had a love child while fighting in the Korean war so that makes him an American as well. Also I heard he just passed his citizenship test and swore the "Oath of the bald Eagle" while his right hand was on a copy of the constitution.
sry... i'm pulling something right off reddit... but it needs to be seen here.
Sundance made a direct apology about ending SC2 on a tweet
"That was sloppy and unprofessional and 100% my fault. I allowed my personal frustration to overwhelm me and responded to one of the many people who were asking me for an update with an ill advised tweet. I'm not expecting anyone to understand nor am I expecting it to be forgiven - I just want to apologize for how I personally handled it. There was a ton happening behind the scenes that led to my frustration but that doesn't make it ok. I fucked up MASSIVELY, which I do from time to time. Hopefully I'm a better person and learned from it. Time will tell. Anyway - I'm excited about this. We're taking it very serious and I promise to try not to fuck up so majorly again (however, smaller fuck ups from me are almost guaranteed) Hope to see some of you at Anaheim. -sd"
People are being really weirdly negative towards MLG.
This is great for SC2, and there's no reason for us all to turn to the 2011-era BW community. We have major open tournaments in North America again! That great! I'm glad! You should be glad too!
Is there any plan to try and build up the players as personalities to give me more of a reason to root for them specifically? I realize it ought to be the player's job to market himself (or at least his team's), but a little personality goes a long way for viewers.
On January 09 2014 06:53 Ribbon wrote: People are being really weirdly negative towards MLG.
This is great for SC2, and there's no reason for us all to turn to the 2011-era BW community. We have major open tournaments in North America again! That great! I'm glad! You should be glad too!
some MLG is better than none at all. over all, MLG is better at running esports competitions than Blizzard.. period. end of story.
oh my god CATZ casting ? i got so many nerdchills ^^ i like him way more then idra or grubby casting,. hes just amaaaazing ^^ destiny on the other hand ... people really forget and forgive fast
Good on Sundance for taking ownership of that. Bathe guy clearly gives a shit and Esports would be less fun without him. Now on to the fun stuff, speculation on who is the biggest and baddest in NA.
"That was sloppy and unprofessional and 100% my fault. I allowed my personal frustration to overwhelm me and responded to one of the many people who were asking me for an update with an ill advised tweet. I'm not expecting anyone to understand nor am I expecting it to be forgiven - I just want to apologize for how I personally handled it. There was a ton happening behind the scenes that led to my frustration but that doesn't make it ok. I fucked up MASSIVELY, which I do from time to time. Hopefully I'm a better person and learned from it. Time will tell. Anyway - I'm excited about this. We're taking it very serious and I promise to try not to fuck up so majorly again (however, smaller fuck ups from me are almost guaranteed) Hope to see some of you at Anaheim. -sd"
That's cool to just be up front about it and take it on the chin. The tournament(s) should be pretty damn good now that everyone has their critical eye on them.
On January 09 2014 06:53 Ribbon wrote: People are being really weirdly negative towards MLG.
This is great for SC2, and there's no reason for us all to turn to the 2011-era BW community. We have major open tournaments in North America again! That great! I'm glad! You should be glad too!
some MLG is better than none at all. over all, MLG is better at running esports competitions than Blizzard.. period. end of story.
Really cool of MLG. The much easier route is just to leave SC2 off and let time run its course, but this hopefully dispels the MLG is 100% about money notion. Looking forward to it!
On January 09 2014 06:57 Plansix wrote: Good on Sundance for taking ownership of that. Bathe guy clearly gives a shit and Esports would be less fun without him. Now on to the fun stuff, speculation on who is the biggest and baddest in NA.
On January 09 2014 06:53 Ribbon wrote: People are being really weirdly negative towards MLG.
This is great for SC2, and there's no reason for us all to turn to the 2011-era BW community. We have major open tournaments in North America again! That great! I'm glad! You should be glad too!
some MLG is better than none at all. over all, MLG is better at running esports competitions than Blizzard.. period. end of story.
MLG’s back – good news Open Bracket - good news Catz is casting – awesome! Destiny is co-casting?!?! -- I really don’t understand this decision. Regardless of his relationship with Catz
It’s a total sell out IMO… he has viewers for the same reason Anna Nicole had ratings.. people want to look at the train wreck.. but if you actually cared what people wanted like you state.. you’ll ditch the immature act and get someone who doesn’t freely break contracts and spew racial bigotry and hateful slurs.
He’s bad for esports.. he fits the stereotype many are trying to shed surrounding online gaming and esports… If you really want esports to grow and become mainstream you need to stop giving people like destiny opportunities to drive people away.
On January 09 2014 06:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: sry... i'm pulling something right off reddit... but it needs to be seen here.
Sundance made a direct apology about ending SC2 on a tweet
"That was sloppy and unprofessional and 100% my fault. I allowed my personal frustration to overwhelm me and responded to one of the many people who were asking me for an update with an ill advised tweet. I'm not expecting anyone to understand nor am I expecting it to be forgiven - I just want to apologize for how I personally handled it. There was a ton happening behind the scenes that led to my frustration but that doesn't make it ok. I fucked up MASSIVELY, which I do from time to time. Hopefully I'm a better person and learned from it. Time will tell. Anyway - I'm excited about this. We're taking it very serious and I promise to try not to fuck up so majorly again (however, smaller fuck ups from me are almost guaranteed) Hope to see some of you at Anaheim. -sd"
On January 09 2014 07:01 BisuDagger wrote: I won't be happy if they ignore Orlando. The place was packed and the event was way too awesome to not come back,
Plus if they hold another event in Orlando I will probably attend for my first live event.
Nice, the last MLG Anaheim was my first SC2 event and I had a blast! Even got to play vs Naniwa in a live setting, that was a real treat. I'll definitely be attending (and hopefully playing in) this one as well.
They should just stick to WCS definitions of what counts as an American player. Happy with any positive SC2 development, but my personal preference is to go back to the old format and bring in the Koreans so we get to see the best play possible.
On January 09 2014 07:00 Ignorant prodigy wrote: MLG’s back – good news Open Bracket - good news Catz is casting – awesome! Destiny is co-casting?!?! -- I really don’t understand this decision. Regardless of his relationship with Catz
It’s a total sell out IMO… he has viewers for the same reason Anna Nicole had ratings.. people want to look at the train wreck.. but if you actually cared what people wanted like you state.. you’ll ditch the immature act and get someone who doesn’t freely break contracts and spew racial bigotry and hateful slurs.
He’s bad for esports.. he fits the stereotype many are trying to shed surrounding online gaming and esports… If you really want esports to grow and become mainstream you need to stop giving people like destiny opportunities to drive people away.
People watch him because he's entertaining not because of his choice of words (which by the way he's toned down)
I hope people tune into this to show MLG that SC2 is worth having at the live events.
On January 09 2014 07:10 huller20 wrote: They should just stick to WCS definitions of what counts as an American player. Happy with any positive SC2 development, but my personal preference is to go back to the old format and bring in the Koreans so we get to see the best play possible.
On January 09 2014 06:53 Ribbon wrote: People are being really weirdly negative towards MLG.
This is great for SC2, and there's no reason for us all to turn to the 2011-era BW community. We have major open tournaments in North America again! That great! I'm glad! You should be glad too!
some MLG is better than none at all. over all, MLG is better at running esports competitions than Blizzard.. period. end of story.
I disagree strongly with this statement, MLG´s events always had their problems as well, I don´t think, they are better than the old IPL crew, which now works for Blizzard, at all.
That being said, ofc. I agree with the part, that some MLG is ofc. better than none. But still, I´m sceptical, some stuff from the article sounds really bad (for example a tournament, which is there to help the local scene grow and then has 0 qualifiers completely misses it´s purpose). Let´s see, how it turns out I guess.
On January 09 2014 07:00 Ignorant prodigy wrote: MLG’s back – good news Open Bracket - good news Catz is casting – awesome! Destiny is co-casting?!?! -- I really don’t understand this decision. Regardless of his relationship with Catz
It’s a total sell out IMO… he has viewers for the same reason Anna Nicole had ratings.. people want to look at the train wreck.. but if you actually cared what people wanted like you state.. you’ll ditch the immature act and get someone who doesn’t freely break contracts and spew racial bigotry and hateful slurs.
He’s bad for esports.. he fits the stereotype many are trying to shed surrounding online gaming and esports… If you really want esports to grow and become mainstream you need to stop giving people like destiny opportunities to drive people away.
People watch him because he's entertaining not because of his choice of words (which by the way he's toned down)
I hope people tune into this to show MLG that SC2 is worth having at the live events.
Destiny has really reigned it in and it's good to see. He is a funny guy.
It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
On January 09 2014 07:00 Ignorant prodigy wrote: MLG’s back – good news Open Bracket - good news Catz is casting – awesome! Destiny is co-casting?!?! -- I really don’t understand this decision. Regardless of his relationship with Catz
It’s a total sell out IMO… he has viewers for the same reason Anna Nicole had ratings.. people want to look at the train wreck.. but if you actually cared what people wanted like you state.. you’ll ditch the immature act and get someone who doesn’t freely break contracts and spew racial bigotry and hateful slurs.
He’s bad for esports.. he fits the stereotype many are trying to shed surrounding online gaming and esports… If you really want esports to grow and become mainstream you need to stop giving people like destiny opportunities to drive people away.
People watch him because he's entertaining not because of his choice of words (which by the way he's toned down)
I hope people tune into this to show MLG that SC2 is worth having at the live events.
Destiny has really reigned it in and it's good to see. He is a funny guy.
Destiny was only really bad around the time he left SC2. He's toned it down since then and I think he will draw viewers in and keep them there.
On January 09 2014 07:00 Ignorant prodigy wrote: MLG’s back – good news Open Bracket - good news Catz is casting – awesome! Destiny is co-casting?!?! -- I really don’t understand this decision. Regardless of his relationship with Catz
It’s a total sell out IMO… he has viewers for the same reason Anna Nicole had ratings.. people want to look at the train wreck.. but if you actually cared what people wanted like you state.. you’ll ditch the immature act and get someone who doesn’t freely break contracts and spew racial bigotry and hateful slurs.
He’s bad for esports.. he fits the stereotype many are trying to shed surrounding online gaming and esports… If you really want esports to grow and become mainstream you need to stop giving people like destiny opportunities to drive people away.
People watch him because he's entertaining not because of his choice of words (which by the way he's toned down)
I hope people tune into this to show MLG that SC2 is worth having at the live events.
Destiny has really reigned it in and it's good to see. He is a funny guy.
Destiny was only really bad around the time he left SC2. He's toned it down since then and I think he will draw viewers in and keep them there.
so long as threads aren't filled with abathur i will be happy
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
On January 09 2014 07:22 jtp118 wrote: it's funny that everyone had given up on MLG when they only failed to hold an SC2 tournament for one live event in four years
Thy just wanted SC2 to die so they could be hipsters about it and claim to live a dead game.
On January 09 2014 07:22 jtp118 wrote: it's funny that everyone had given up on MLG when they only failed to hold an SC2 tournament for one live event in four years
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
depends on prize pool/perceived ease of money if they have to pay their way there, especially with many koreans in SPL now
Some good news from NA? Surely I must be hallucinating! I really like that they are making it an NA centric tournament, the scene needs a boost, and probably a kick in the ass as well.
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
depends on prize pool/perceived ease of money if they have to pay their way there, especially with many koreans in SPL now
Startale may send their whole roster considering they'll just be twiddling their thumbs over there. Unless of course they have zero money.
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
depends on prize pool/perceived ease of money if they have to pay their way there, especially with many koreans in SPL now
Startale may send their whole roster considering they'll just be twiddling their thumbs over there. Unless of course they have zero money.
apart from life and curious, i don't see many of their players with a fighting chance to make enough money to pay for their flights
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
depends on prize pool/perceived ease of money if they have to pay their way there, especially with many koreans in SPL now
Startale may send their whole roster considering they'll just be twiddling their thumbs over there. Unless of course they have zero money.
Pretty happy that MLG hasn't forgotten about SC2 community and this is the right direction to bring back it back to MLG events. Now I gotta take a trip to Anaheim and watch my first SC2 event.
On January 09 2014 07:28 Eventine wrote: I still wish MLG would have an open bracket... those were good/fun days
read the whole post
We intend to use the feedback that you provide throughout this activity to help us design competition for February through May that will ultimately be used to qualify players into Pool Play at the MLG Championship in Anaheim. Full Championship details, including the size of the Open Bracket, are coming soon!
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
depends on prize pool/perceived ease of money if they have to pay their way there, especially with many koreans in SPL now
Startale may send their whole roster considering they'll just be twiddling their thumbs over there. Unless of course they have zero money.
apart from life and curious, i don't see many of their players with a fighting chance to make enough money to pay for their flights
Maybe Hack as well. But yeah other than that... . Although Pet did just make Code A.
Oh and so did Panic. Not that they had hard brackets.
On January 09 2014 07:20 Derez wrote: It's nice for the US I guess but all I want is the old korean-invasion MLG's back. They were some of the best weekend tournaments when it came to the players present.
WCS is your show then. And if there is an open bracket, the Koreans will invade. Once they realized that real money was on the line, there is no stopping them.
WCS is not, not really. MLG's used to be great to see what players were top dogs during that specific weekend. The WCS finals suffer from qualified players being just out of shape due to qualifying weeks before and performing badly and are out of balance due to equal invites for all regions.
And yes, I realize that if there's serious money on the line, Koreans will invade. But then we end up with an MLG like the first MLG's were, 4 US players seeded into pool play combined with 2 koreans who survived a gruelling open bracket and will enter 90% of the games as a clear favourite (pretty much vs every opponent with the exception of scarlett). It made pool play pretty uninteresting back then and will do again now. I have nothing against US only tournaments and I understand that there is a (rather limited) demand for them, all I'm saying is that they're not very interesting for me personally to watch.
We intend to use the feedback that you provide throughout this activity to help us design competition for February through May that will ultimately be used to qualify players into Pool Play at the MLG Championship in Anaheim. Full Championship details, including the size of the Open Bracket, are coming soon!
On January 09 2014 07:28 Eventine wrote: I still wish MLG would have an open bracket... those were good/fun days
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
Wait, Adam came here and people started arguing with him because they think he wants to make money off of SC2? OF COURSE HE WANTS TO MAKE MONEY !)!()=YHEUDNSDN.
It's a business, what the hell do you expect? This place sometimes. And LOL@ "earn their way back". Self-entitlement just reached new heights. Adam, please know we're not all like this, most of us I daresay think this is awesome.
But I really hope that some Koreans will be there (In Anaheim). I mean, MLG was one of THE tournaments for the entire Foreigner vs Korean storylines - and even though the Koreans might win in the end, as long as there aren't ONLY Koreans I think that's fine. But with the SPL going on, the GSL being played and most Korean teams seem to be broke... I think that's gonna be an almost exclusive NA tournament. And lets just face it: There aren't enough really good American players to fill such a tournament.
On January 09 2014 06:28 Heartland wrote: ugh, Destiny. Otherwise, good news.
I've always felt Steben could be a great caster. He's articulate, he knows the game, and he's actually pretty smart even if he sometimes says some dumb stuff. I am pretty excited to finally get to see if I'm right. I'm fairly confident I am.
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
Wish granted
What a great day. I should go buy a lottery ticket.
On January 09 2014 08:01 Ben... wrote: Sounds good to me. I never understood why they cut it in the first place. From what I remember, they got some decent viewership numbers.
They skipped one event since Redbull was doing theirs at the same weekend and a studio production like WCS just isn't their thing.
Alright. Current thinking, though. I'd wager they're open to community feedback, so let's give it to them.
Oh yeah, they seem to be taking a ton of community feedback on this. If the majority of the fans want them to open it to KR/EU I'm sure they will do it.
Alright. Current thinking, though. I'd wager they're open to community feedback, so let's give it to them.
if you make it NA only in the brackets and open in the qualifiers we'll have what we basically had towards the end of 2011 where you had mediocre players in the brackets and code s players going through the qualifiers. Not that that's bad. I wouldn't mind an NA only open bracket if they invited a couple koreans and seeded them into pool play like the exchange thing they used to do. Think that would be pretty cool and a decent compromise.
On January 09 2014 08:15 trada wrote: sounds good but I believe it when I see it.
Believe what, exactly? As far as I can tell, two things are confirmed: an online test thing with a 5k prize pool and a championship at Anaheim. What is it you don't believe?
On January 09 2014 08:15 trada wrote: sounds good but I believe it when I see it.
Believe what, exactly? As far as I can tell, two things are confirmed: an online test thing with a 5k prize pool and a championship at Anaheim. What is it you don't believe?
He doesn't believe that his unfound assumptions are incorrect.
WOOT!. Was so mad after we left last year MLG and were hearing rumors of SC2 being dropped from MLG. As a fan/player of SC2 since day one that was losing faith this brings hope to me.
it would be good to include Europeans too. But this is good for affirmation on American players, everybody should support them. I wouldnt like to watch Korean top6 again for sure.
Love it, an AM only tournament would be a nice start for MLG in 2014, like the early early days.
the level would be lower than a good zotac on NA so you've to be interested by those players. The problem is that the gap between most kor and most NA pro (everyone except scarlett) is way too big to mix the 2 and have an interesting tournament.
If it works it's really good for the NA scene tho.
Alright. Current thinking, though. I'd wager they're open to community feedback, so let's give it to them.
if you make it NA only in the brackets and open in the qualifiers we'll have what we basically had towards the end of 2011 where you had mediocre players in the brackets and code s players going through the qualifiers. Not that that's bad. I wouldn't mind an NA only open bracket if they invited a couple koreans and seeded them into pool play like the exchange thing they used to do. Think that would be pretty cool and a decent compromise.
The Open bracket doesn't have to be American only - since MLG doesn't pay for the flights for the players in the open bracket, the number of Koreans there will be rather low anyway.
Overall I think an AM-only tournament isn't the way to go. I might be the only one, but for me the best moments of almost every tournament are the ones, when a foreign underdog eliminates a Korean favorite (Scarlett vs Bomber?). I like the idea of region-locked online tournaments, but for an offline-event I think an open tournament is way more entertaining to watch. Even if it ends in a Korean-only finals... I mean... Dreamhack has a Korean-only finals quite often, but the tournaments are just awesome to watch. Lots of foreigner vs Korean stuff with a world class finale.
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
my reservation is that destiny set off a huge circlejerk about ded gaem and some stuff, all it really takes is one person
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
I don't actually mind either way which direction they decide to go in, but I'd be very annoyed if someone like Demuslim is able to attend and Polt can't for all intents and purposes they have the exact same qualifications for being there.
All or nothing, don't pick favorites that's all I ask.
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
He is a streamer who left for a game with 10x the viewership, paying rent is more important than Esports. He still knows the game, he is still funny, and he is smart enough to know when to keep it in his pants, so to speak. Well, most of the time, but you get my meaning.
If you think he came back for the money, fair enough, but given he does not play any tournaments and is not on a team, how much money can he really make off of a 3-4k stream?
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
He is a streamer who left for a game with 10x the viewership, paying rent is more important than Esports. He still knows the game, he is still funny, and he is smart enough to know when to keep it in his pants, so to speak. Well, most of the time, but you get my meaning.
If you think he came back for the money, fair enough, but given he does not play any tournaments and is not on a team, how much money can he really make off of a 3-4k stream?
not like the game he's playing matters. And his numbers compare to good league streams were pitiful to say the least compare to his sc2 ratio.
Awesome to see MLG back, especially with an Americas-only competition. Anyone complaining really needs to stop, we should be bowing at the feet of anyone willing to run a SC2 tournament considering they're probably doing it at a loss lol.
On January 09 2014 08:59 Wuster wrote: do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
Roughly my thoughts as well. Cant please everyone all the time.
I hope whomever makes the final call at MLG doesnt feel forced to make a single rule for all of their lead-in events until May.
I kinda like variety, so I'd totally applaud if MLG were to announce some irregular scheme over time, like, as a somewhat random set of ideas:
-the first online event is USA+CAD citizens only -the second event is All Americas residents -the third is All americas citizens only (north central south) -the fourth event allows for half the slots to be filled people citizens of EU+eastern europe -4 entries for the anaheim open brackets to be drawn completely random from any Code A + code S + proleague players entering the draw for free (i know this feels odd, but to some extent, i like the idea of having the oddball name coming to MLG and having a chance to surprise us) -12 entries for open brackets reserved for european resident GM, either random or ranked or whatever) -rest of MLG open bracket is WCS america rule
or whatever else that makes sense... the idea is to be creative and not make a single rule that ends up being more frustrating than helpful for everyone involved.
As long as it gives fun games, and a fun balance of players from NA/EU/KR for the various events to make business sense then i am happy. I want this thing to be a success, whatever shape it takes.
(For the record I am a Polt fanboy, and as such I'd probably be happy to see him everywhere. But I think it is important to not focus a majority on koreans, so if that means less Polt here and there, well that's fine too.)
Residence in the Americas is what should matter in my opinion. If someone is living over here, they won't have any structural training advantages over others. Granted, a Korean transplant is likely to win then, but there shouldn't be many, it ups the competition a bit and you get an even better story if a foreigner wins it.
On January 09 2014 05:12 MLG_Adam wrote: Guys to be clear, this is a TEST run to gauge feedback from fans and players. With that data in hand we will work to design 5 months of SC2 activity that will lead into Anaheim and give us our pool play players for the Anaheim...you know the guys that will skip the giant fucking open bracket we're going to run.
Foul language from a spokesperson of one of our flagship tournaments? I love you, man.
Seems like SC2 is going in the right direction again, which is wonderful to read after all the doomsday news in the last couple of weeks. The bolded part is simply SICK CITY.
Oh god, please get TB. Analytical casters are a dime a dozen, but I'm sure TB is worth the investment.
Let's say for the money of TB you could get Axlav, Axeltoss, IdrA and Gretorp, and I still think TB would draw in more viewers than those four combined.
On January 09 2014 10:08 lopido wrote: i dont want to see bad americans players competing for a low prize pool.
Here's how I interpret this. You don't like a tournament to feature American players and you don't like tournaments with low prize pools. You'd also be upset if there was a large prize pool, because you'd say that the "bad" American players don't deserve a high prize. You'd also be upset if there were strong Korean players with a low prize pool because they should be getting paid more.
So in conclusion, go watch the GSL? It has a large prize pool and only Koreans. I dunno what the point of you saying this is.
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
my reservation is that destiny set off a huge circlejerk about ded gaem and some stuff, all it really takes is one person
Lets be fair though, in the "circlejerk" he made some suggestions that ended up coming to pass. Whether they came to pass because of him or not, he pointed out things that he felt Blizzard needed to do and now they're doing it.
On January 09 2014 08:47 ZodaSoda wrote: I all for this, except maybe Destiny... doubt his attitude has changed too...
Oh well, will be interesting to see if the WCS AM Koreans are allowed
Give him a chance, he's toned it down a bit lately. I think he could be really good.
My reservations about Destiny are because he left SC2 because it was dying and terrible or something to that effect (paraphrasing). Then came back when he missed the money (my own spin).
I do wonder what they're going to do re: Polt and Violet. I'm sure whatever they decide will be controversial and I don't envy whoever has to take the heat for it lol.
my reservation is that destiny set off a huge circlejerk about ded gaem and some stuff, all it really takes is one person
Lets be fair though, in the "circlejerk" he made some suggestions that ended up coming to pass. Whether they came to pass because of him or not, he pointed out things that he felt Blizzard needed to do and now they're doing it.
His overall conduct while he was discussing how SC2 was dead, and after he left SC2 just left a sour taste in my mouth. From the infamous Inside the Game episode to his comments to Doublelift regarding SC2 as he was being coached to play LoL, it just seemed like the last thing he gave a shit about was the continuation of professional Starcraft.
Still I'm willing to see what he brings to the table as a caster. I don't think that time period really reflects him as a whole.
YES! Seriously, no matter the problems that MLG had in the past with qualifiers and such, I loved attending MLG events. None of the other NA events matched the feeling that I got at MLG's.
On January 09 2014 07:01 BisuDagger wrote: I won't be happy if they ignore Orlando. The place was packed and the event was way too awesome to not come back,
Plus if they hold another event in Orlando I will probably attend for my first live event.
Darkhoarse that'd be sick. We'd totally hang out.
MLG, since you're reading this, how come my application from over a year ago to help out never got accepted.
On January 09 2014 07:01 BisuDagger wrote: I won't be happy if they ignore Orlando. The place was packed and the event was way too awesome to not come back,
Plus if they hold another event in Orlando I will probably attend for my first live event.
Darkhoarse that'd be sick. We'd totally hang out.
MLG, since you're reading this, how come my application from over a year ago to help out never got accepted.
My sister lives in Orlando, so I'd tell her I'm coming down to visit then BOOM NOPE ESPORTS
On January 09 2014 07:01 BisuDagger wrote: I won't be happy if they ignore Orlando. The place was packed and the event was way too awesome to not come back,
Plus if they hold another event in Orlando I will probably attend for my first live event.
Darkhoarse that'd be sick. We'd totally hang out.
MLG, since you're reading this, how come my application from over a year ago to help out never got accepted.
My sister lives in Orlando, so I'd tell her I'm coming down to visit then BOOM NOPE ESPORTS
Lol awesome. I lived in Orlando for about 5 years. I'm in Jacksonville now. Just a hop, skip, and a jump away.
On January 09 2014 07:01 BisuDagger wrote: I won't be happy if they ignore Orlando. The place was packed and the event was way too awesome to not come back,
Plus if they hold another event in Orlando I will probably attend for my first live event.
Darkhoarse that'd be sick. We'd totally hang out.
MLG, since you're reading this, how come my application from over a year ago to help out never got accepted.
My sister lives in Orlando, so I'd tell her I'm coming down to visit then BOOM NOPE ESPORTS
Lol awesome. I lived in Orlando for about 5 years. I'm in Jacksonville now. Just a hop, skip, and a jump away.
I live in Philadelphia so it's more like a hop, skip, jump, and 15 hour drive away. But it would be worth it for an MLG I am thinking.
Wouldn't this "kill" WCS? As is, who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen. Everyone is Korean. Realistically, who has good odds against Jaedong or Bomber, etc? If the skill gap wasn't big enough, it wouldn't be all Korean.
The only way for NA players to reach a good enough level to face Koreans is to give them chances to win similar money, thus they can devote the time and energy into taking it seriously.
Foreigners can watch pro league to see the best players. WCS NA rarely even offers Korean vs foreigner...
What I'm saying is, I fear the Blizzard "monopoly" and the rules they can create to sanction others and shut them out of the market, while they flip off their community and exercise their right to not give customers or players what they want.
Competition is good and creates things like this. But, if Blizzard has the power to control SC 2 tournaments, in general, then it's hard to not be cautiously optimistic. Why appeal to consumers when you can bully others out? I'm just assuming that's their plan or else players might be more invigorated and tournaments wouldn't be run like a clown show.
On January 09 2014 12:52 playa wrote: Wouldn't this "kill" WCS? As is, who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen. Everyone is Korean. Realistically, who has good odds against Jaedong or Bomber, etc? If the skill gap wasn't big enough, it wouldn't be all Korean.
The only way for NA players to reach a good enough level to face Koreans is to give them chances to win similar money, thus they can devote the time and energy into taking it seriously.
Foreigners can watch pro league to see the best players. WCS NA rarely even offers Korean vs foreigner...
What I'm saying is, I fear the Blizzard "monopoly" and the rules they can create to sanction others and shut them out of the market, while they flip off their community and exercise their right to not give customers or players what they want.
Competition is good and creates things like this. But, if Blizzard has the power to control SC 2 tournaments, in general, then it's hard to not be cautiously optimistic. Why appeal to consumers when you can bully others out? I'm just assuming that's their plan or else players might be more invigorated and tournaments wouldn't be run like a clown show.
Blizzard's not just a tournament organizer they make the fucking game. More tournaments means more promotion and more eyes on the game and possibly more sales. As long as the times don't overlap Blizzard should love this.
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
alot of people care. considering how many players try to get into premier should tell you the least amount of people who care
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
alot of people care. considering how many players try to get into premier should tell you the least amount of people who care
You shouldn't mistake a lack of alternatives for genuine interest. NASL clearly showed how important these tournaments are to the NA scene. It was done very diligently. Prob months of planning and a hiring process took place. Is this for real?
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
alot of people care. considering how many players try to get into premier should tell you the least amount of people who care
You shouldn't mistake a lack of alternatives for genuine interest. NASL clearly showed how important these tournaments are to the NA scene. It was done very diligently. Prob months of planning and a hiring process took place. Is this for real?
I mean, feel free to not watch the tournaments or come to these forums.
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
Qualifying for challenger league alone gives you more prize money than getting 3rd/4th at this tournament. So an NA tournament of this amount of prize money would in no way kill WCS lol.
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
Qualifying for challenger league alone gives you more prize money than getting 3rd/4th at this tournament. So an NA tournament of this amount of prize money would in no way kill WCS lol.
Agree with Goswser that we're not a WCS alternative or replacement. However...
Just to be clear.
The $5,000 invitational is a small test. It is not tied into Anaheim or even into the pre LAN event tournament system.
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
Qualifying for challenger league alone gives you more prize money than getting 3rd/4th at this tournament. So an NA tournament of this amount of prize money would in no way kill WCS lol.
+ it's still the top tournament where top players are supposed to jauge themselves. For upcoming and coming players it's a real boost to qualify and for more known pro it's almost something that has to be done.
America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
On January 09 2014 12:52 playa wrote: Wouldn't this "kill" WCS? As is, who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen. Everyone is Korean. Realistically, who has good odds against Jaedong or Bomber, etc? If the skill gap wasn't big enough, it wouldn't be all Korean.
The only way for NA players to reach a good enough level to face Koreans is to give them chances to win similar money, thus they can devote the time and energy into taking it seriously.
Foreigners can watch pro league to see the best players. WCS NA rarely even offers Korean vs foreigner...
What I'm saying is, I fear the Blizzard "monopoly" and the rules they can create to sanction others and shut them out of the market, while they flip off their community and exercise their right to not give customers or players what they want.
Competition is good and creates things like this. But, if Blizzard has the power to control SC 2 tournaments, in general, then it's hard to not be cautiously optimistic. Why appeal to consumers when you can bully others out? I'm just assuming that's their plan or else players might be more invigorated and tournaments wouldn't be run like a clown show.
Blizzard's not just a tournament organizer they make the fucking game. More tournaments means more promotion and more eyes on the game and possibly more sales. As long as the times don't overlap Blizzard should love this.
Emphasis mine, to my understanding that is practically the only requirement to get a tourney license now (ok that's an exaggeration but w/e).
On January 09 2014 14:06 Tchado wrote: American's only ? Destiny as a caster ? :S :S :S
How is this gonna be any good for us non-americans ?
Maybe it's best for non-NA viewers to think of this as a smaller scale / local tournament and not like the big MLG's in the past. Kind of like TeSL or Zotac Cups or Playheim Dailies, ect. Sure people outside those locales watches them, but it wasn't exactly meant for world-wide appeal imo.
There seems to be a lot of bitching and complaining going on here :/ ...i think it's a great thing to have sc2 back in MLG.
First of all more big tournaments means more fun time watching these awesome games to watch..(who cares if it's America only? I think that's still pretty cool, and frankly watching to koreans play perfectly gets kind of boring after a while, it's more fun when there's a few small mistakes...it adds to the tension IMO).
Secondly, and this is sort of a personal reason but w/e, MLG Columbus where MMA won was the tournament that really got me into e-sports. I mean I had heard of it before, and even watched some of the old KR BW leagues (I used to looove Cella and old school July) but i wasn't ever so hyped and pumped and felt so much adrenaline as I was when that crowd was chanting MMA! MMA! MMA!
My point being MLG has made many many many great amazing memories for so many people, i don't see how anybody can hate on them for at least trying to make more.
who even cares if you get into challenge league or premier as a NA citizen.
Lots of people.
Who cares about challenger league if there was something like this? How much money is in challenger league? Who would you beat in premier league? NA players are probably more stoked about lotto tickets they have than chances in premier league.
You're in challenger league! Great, now go get a job. Big deal.
Qualifying for challenger league alone gives you more prize money than getting 3rd/4th at this tournament. So an NA tournament of this amount of prize money would in no way kill WCS lol.
Agree with Goswser that we're not a WCS alternative or replacement. However...
Just to be clear.
The $5,000 invitational is a small test. It is not tied into Anaheim or even into the pre LAN event tournament system.
I wasn't talking about the invitational (who is a fan of invitationals, unless it's Flash, Bisu, etc), as I don't care about that either. It seemed like their future plans were more interesting/incentivizing. Has anyone looked at the premier list or challenger list? It's at the point where many Koreans wouldn't care to switch because there's just not enough difference. It's so not worth the training for such a long shot. Even a shot at less money would be better for 99% of the competitive players in NA.
you know, i kind of was expecting some type of warning for a 1 word response or something when i posted that and then i thought, I dont even care, it's too funny to not do it
This is cool through and through. Judging by his streaming sessions Destiny does have the stamina for an event like this, though he may only do this online invitational? I hope he does Anaheim as well.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
wat
I'm terribly confused also. I hope this is sarcasm/a joke based on discussions about porn but I just don't know.
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
wat
Seriously, I hope MLG doesn't listen to this vocal minority that doesn't even seem to know what they're talking about. I think you might want to consider that MLG helped to grow SC2 to what it has become, not the other way around. I'm really happy to see them picking up SC2 again, Anaheim was a blast last time and I'll definitely be attending again.
i'm very skeptical of MLG but this can't really be a straight-up *bad* thing unless they don't pay out prizemoney, and i've never heard that about MLG.
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
I write a good sized post about how this type of thinking is really really dumb and someone does it the very next post... Truly mind blown. MLG doesn't owe anyone anything. Hate to break it to ya
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
Tell that to the Halo community. They'll laugh bitterly at you.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
I agree with this guy.
I really hope it works out for the NA scene , they could use something like this , and I honestly hope destiny gets fired....still don't like the guy ever since the last witch hunt.
I really hope that its gonna be "Country of Origin" only. Just cause you live here doesn't make you from here. I love Polt and Violet just as much as my hometown heroes but that doesn't mean they should be competing in an "America's Only" tournament.
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
Lol, "dare"...
SC2 has to earn its place in organization sponsorship and tournaments. Not the other way around. MLG, IEM, Dreamhack, GomTV are all businesses looking to make money and not go bankrupt. If it does not make sense to run a tournament, and they have no outstanding obligations, then it is entirely their prerogative to not run the tournament.
SC2 hadn't "done" anything for MLG. They ran tournaments for a popular game. That's it. They gave the show, people tuned in for it. Quid pro quo. If you want there to be future tournaments, then it's your job, and the rest of the community's, to show that SC2 will continue to be a mutually beneficial endeavor.
On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote: Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ?
So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed which will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing?
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
I agree with this guy.
I really hope it works out for the NA scene , they could use something like this , and I honestly hope destiny gets fired....still don't like the guy ever since the last witch hunt.
Which hunt was that? People who don't like Destiny just don't get it. But me and Sundance on the other hand, we get it, okay, WE GET IT.
Destiny is awesome, and this whole thing is awesome. People just need to be happy for what's happening, and who's involved, and support it. Support StarCraft no matter the region!
Hm, if they have to get two active players to cast it, I wish they would get two players of different races, so that at least they can cover as many matchups as possible.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
I agree with this guy.
I really hope it works out for the NA scene , they could use something like this , and I honestly hope destiny gets fired....still don't like the guy ever since the last witch hunt.
Which hunt was that? People who don't like Destiny just don't get it. But me and Sundance on the other hand, we get it, okay, WE GET IT.
You get it ? Ok hook me up then , help me GET IT.
and again , I hope this works out for NA and their player base.
If Polt and Violet cant play, that excludes Demuslim as well, right? He would be hard to beat in the voting... Working visa or citezenship are the only 2 options imo.
On January 09 2014 15:58 SicPro wrote: I really hope that its gonna be "Country of Origin" only. Just cause you live here doesn't make you from here. I love Polt and Violet just as much as my hometown heroes but that doesn't mean they should be competing in an "America's Only" tournament.
How dare you! Polt is clearly an all-American hero these days.
Anyway, probably good for the Americas I guess; they could use more local stuff. Not surprised a whole bunch of people from elsewhere are saying they won't be watching though.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
I agree with this guy.
I really hope it works out for the NA scene , they could use something like this , and I honestly hope destiny gets fired....still don't like the guy ever since the last witch hunt.
Which hunt was that? People who don't like Destiny just don't get it. But me and Sundance on the other hand, we get it, okay, WE GET IT.
You get it ? Ok hook me up then , help me GET IT.
and again , I hope this works out for NA and their player base.
Because more or less everything he said in the ded gaem post was true. People didn't like it because sometimes he used mean words. This idea that Destiny somehow damaged the game is mildly amusing at best.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
As someone who has paid for an MLG subscription - I can only hope their organisation folds.
They're the MWO of online content providers. Always with TBA - "We will stop sucking, sort out our bandwidth, do things you like..."
If you want to watch ghetto gaming, then fine. I'll stick with GSL, who at least seem to not hate their customers and run the only worthwhile game in town.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
But you're hurting esports! ;P
Seriously though, I agree. If nothing else its been made abundantly clear that MLG treats this as a business. And consequently it should be viewed as a business. If they're not selling a product (in this case a tournament) appealing to certain demographics (i.e. anyone outside of NA) then those demographics should be under no pressure whatsoever to support said product.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
But you're hurting esports! ;P
Seriously though, I agree. If nothing else its been made abundantly clear that MLG treats this as a business. And consequently it should be viewed as a business. If they're not selling a product (in this case a tournament) appealing to certain demographics (i.e. anyone outside of NA) then those demographics should be under no pressure whatsoever to support said product.
100% agree. MLG are the Dixon's Store Group (or Wallmart if you prefer) of gaming content delivery. I don't mind making people making a handsome profit from a service, but they need to sell a service I want to buy first. Having already paid for their service (in the loosest term of the word) I'd rather give money to a guy in the street than to MLG.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
I agree with this guy.
I really hope it works out for the NA scene , they could use something like this , and I honestly hope destiny gets fired....still don't like the guy ever since the last witch hunt.
Which hunt was that? People who don't like Destiny just don't get it. But me and Sundance on the other hand, we get it, okay, WE GET IT.
You get it ? Ok hook me up then , help me GET IT.
and again , I hope this works out for NA and their player base.
Because more or less everything he said in the ded gaem post was true. People didn't like it because sometimes he used mean words. This idea that Destiny somehow damaged the game is mildly amusing at best.
The reason people didn't like it was because he was pulling numbers out of nowhere and painted a doomsday scenario which spawned so much negativity that this community became unbearable to interact with for several months afterwards. He definitely had a point in there somewhere, but the reason people didn't like his post had to do with more than just "mean words". Doa posted an excellent response to the post where he said that while it's important to recognize potential problems with the game and the scene, poisoning the community with an extreme amount of negativity is the wrong way to go about it. Destiny responded with what was honestly a pretty stupid comment about how Doa wanted everyone to wear rose-tinted glasses and ignore everything (indicating that he either didn't read or understand the post, since that's the opposite of what Doa said).
Whether or not the chicken little episode actually hurt the game and it's popularity is up for debate, but it doesn't take a genius to see that a community that hates itself and predicts its own death might be less appealing to be a part of. It also doesn't take a genuis to see that the community has done stuff like this more than once (it happened again, only a few months ago, when stream numbers started to go down due to WCS oversaturation), and it tends to just die down after a particularly memorable tournament or something else awesome.
I'm not a Destiny hater and I'm glad to see him be a part of this project, but there are legitimate reasons for not liking his proclamation of the game dying and the bandwagon that followed.
On January 09 2014 15:58 SicPro wrote: I really hope that its gonna be "Country of Origin" only. Just cause you live here doesn't make you from here. I love Polt and Violet just as much as my hometown heroes but that doesn't mean they should be competing in an "America's Only" tournament.
It doesn't make you from here, but that shouldn't have any relevance. Being born in Korea doesn't give you an advantage in starcraft, it's the structural training difference that does. Polt and Violet don't have a tight knit team house to train in over here, so they should be allowed in like anyone else.
Do you think Select should be disallowed as well?
The ideal solution is limiting it to those currently residing in the Americas for something like a year.
In honor MLGs return to 'Mercia SC2, I played Saints Row 4 in the Uncle Sam outfit all last night.
I can understand the same EU fans would be disappointed, but I like that MLG is focusing down on what they are providing. The risk of trying to please everyone world wide is that you end up with a watered down product. It's one of the reasons we love GSL so much, because it is so focused.
On January 09 2014 14:57 ssw2ndtime wrote: I hated MLG to dare to even take off SC2 for one event even... thinking what SC2 had done for MLG.. how can they just treat SC2 like a prostitue.. use em when u need em, but once it gets less results for a little while, just chuck it in the garbage?? N now they are digging it back from the can, dust it off, and recycle..????? Srsly i hate u mlg..
That is the honest answer. What else do you want? I'm not going to spend $100s of thousands to operate an event on the same weekend in the same time zone as someone else. That is bad for us and for Redbull.
On January 09 2014 23:15 Plansix wrote: It's one of the reasons we love GSL so much, because it is so focused.
No many around the world watch GSL becauuse it has the highest competition and skill level. Many would not watch a GSL SEA for example focussing on the SEA scene
One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
On January 09 2014 23:15 Plansix wrote: It's one of the reasons we love GSL so much, because it is so focused.
No many around the world watch GSL becauuse it has the highest competition and skill level. Many would not watch a GSL SEA for example focussing on the SEA scene
It's so focused on providing the highest level of compitition and the Korean scene. Glad we agree. MGL is goin to focus on a different product, rather to trying to just recreate the GSL by flying over 40 Korean players.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
Getting a liquor license for one of the venues they use would be a nightmare. They are not only responsible for selling the booze, but also making sure it isn't ending up in the hands of under aged kids.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
Getting a liquor license for one of the venues they use would be a nightmare. They are not only responsible for selling the booze, but also making sure it isn't ending up in the hands of under aged kids.
Many of the vendors are probably already licensed. I'm just not sure of the liquor laws for allowing a licensed alcohol vendor on your premises. For example, consider the many outdoor events that have alcohol vendor booths. These locations are likely unlicensed, while the vendor itself is licensed.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
Getting a liquor license for one of the venues they use would be a nightmare. They are not only responsible for selling the booze, but also making sure it isn't ending up in the hands of under aged kids.
Many of the vendors are probably already licensed. I'm just not sure of the liquor laws for allowing a licensed alcohol vendor on your premises. For example, consider the many outdoor events that have alcohol vendor booths. These locations are likely unlicensed, while the vendor itself is licensed.
Normally the laws are per state and sometimes per town. I remember it took my first a month to get a public liquor license for a local vendor for a single event. It just might be more trouble than it is worth.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
If MLG started selling alchohol, then I wouldn't watch it. Fuck, could you imagine a DRUNK MLG crowd? Imagine the "BUUUUUH, YOU SUUUUCK" etc that we have to hear on stream (constant) and the normal-functional people in the crowd that had to witness it? Imo bad bad idea
imagine when people Buuuh'ed at Flash, but worse *shrugs*
sorry, i just have no trust in nerds, venues and alchol ^^
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
On January 09 2014 15:58 SicPro wrote: I really hope that its gonna be "Country of Origin" only. Just cause you live here doesn't make you from here. I love Polt and Violet just as much as my hometown heroes but that doesn't mean they should be competing in an "America's Only" tournament.
It doesn't make you from here, but that shouldn't have any relevance. Being born in Korea doesn't give you an advantage in starcraft, it's the structural training difference that does. Polt and Violet don't have a tight knit team house to train in over here, so they should be allowed in like anyone else.
Do you think Select should be disallowed as well?
The ideal solution is limiting it to those currently residing in the Americas for something like a year.
"Koreans with visas will not be eligible for this tournament. It'll be decided later how that will play out at Anaheim, but they're not being considered right now (that means no select/apoc/violet/demuslim/polt)." - MLG/GameOn Feedback thread
On January 09 2014 23:15 Plansix wrote: It's one of the reasons we love GSL so much, because it is so focused.
No many around the world watch GSL becauuse it has the highest competition and skill level. Many would not watch a GSL SEA for example focussing on the SEA scene
It's so focused on providing the highest level of compitition and the Korean scene. Glad we agree. MGL is goin to focus on a different product, rather to trying to just recreate the GSL by flying over 40 Korean players.
Well MLG didn't water its own product by letting other nations compete besides Americas and so be "unfocussed". The problem of MLG has always been the years before that they have thrown money around like there is no tomorrow (like flying many Koreans in at MLG's cost) and burning venture capital with that in contrast to Dreamhack or ESL e.g. ANd i still remember the tweets of SUndance and Adam how happy they were with the increase of concurrent viewers per event. IMO the focussing on the Americas scene is due to the fact that they don't want to spend so much money on Starcraft 2 anymore (. And taking Destiny as a co-caster is not the best move IMO, though that is more due to Catz i guess.
That said that i am happy for the NA scene that a american esports company finally provides them with a Americas tourney they always wanted. So it is up to the NA scene now, if it is actually profitable in the end for MLG and to prove TB that he is wrong about his opinion that an NA only tournament is not profitable But Anaheim won't be watched by many europeans due to timezone (-9 hours to Central Europe) and the players competing
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
But you're hurting esports! ;P
Seriously though, I agree. If nothing else its been made abundantly clear that MLG treats this as a business. And consequently it should be viewed as a business. If they're not selling a product (in this case a tournament) appealing to certain demographics (i.e. anyone outside of NA) then those demographics should be under no pressure whatsoever to support said product.
100% agree. MLG are the Dixon's Store Group (or Wallmart if you prefer) of gaming content delivery. I don't mind making people making a handsome profit from a service, but they need to sell a service I want to buy first. Having already paid for their service (in the loosest term of the word) I'd rather give money to a guy in the street than to MLG.
What? There like the Walmart of product delivery? How... Because they messed up season 1 of WCS given a 2 week window to pull off something they had never done before with no prior production crew and somewhat out of their own pocket. I don't want to hear about ESLs fantastic job and how MLG could have done that, ESL had been running LCS for months before WCS. A lot of MLGs weekend and short-term tournaments have been really well done.
On January 09 2014 23:15 Plansix wrote: It's one of the reasons we love GSL so much, because it is so focused.
No many around the world watch GSL becauuse it has the highest competition and skill level. Many would not watch a GSL SEA for example focussing on the SEA scene
It's so focused on providing the highest level of compitition and the Korean scene. Glad we agree. MGL is goin to focus on a different product, rather to trying to just recreate the GSL by flying over 40 Korean players.
Well MLG didn't water its own product by letting other nations compete besides Americas and so be "unfocussed". The problem of MLG has always been the years before that they have thrown money around like there is no tomorrow (like flying many Koreans in at MLG's cost) and burning venture capital with that in contrast to Dreamhack or ESL e.g. ANd i still remember the tweets of SUndance and Adam how happy they were with the increase of concurrent viewers per event. IMO the focussing on the Americas scene is due to the fact that they don't want to spend so much money on Starcraft 2 anymore (. And taking Destiny as a co-caster is not the best move IMO.
That said that i am happy for the NA scene that a american esports company finally provides them with a Americas tourney they always wanted. So it is up to the NA scene now, if it is actually profitable in the end for MLG.
They did the same thing with dota. They didn't fly teams out or give them special treatment. It's less about not want to spend less money and more about taking advantage of the people who want to play locally.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
If MLG started selling alchohol, then I wouldn't watch it. Fuck, could you imagine a DRUNK MLG crowd? Imagine the "BUUUUUH, YOU SUUUUCK" etc that we have to hear on stream (constant) and the normal-functional people in the crowd that had to witness it? Imo bad bad idea
imagine when people Buuuh'ed at Flash, but worse *shrugs*
sorry, i just have no trust in nerds, venues and alchol ^^
Going to any major sporting event amply demonstrates the effect of less than knowledgeable fans, alcohol and any perceived lull in the action. Before I stopped going to football/hockey/combat sports events I had to almost physically restrain myself from choking certain people. The Esports crowds are generally very mannered though, probably because someone who is only casually interested probably won't bother going to an MLG event.
How about selling weed instead? That would get everyone in a good mood and would likely be highly profitable. Would sound pretty cool too, "I'm a professional event manager and aspiring drug dealer".
On January 10 2014 00:00 NeThZOR wrote: What made them change their mind so quick? Certainly not the community that moaned.
They never changed their mind. They just skipped SC2 for one event due to redbull having something on the same weekend. They never "dropped it" like a lot of the "ded geam" people wanted to believe.
On January 10 2014 00:00 NeThZOR wrote: What made them change their mind so quick? Certainly not the community that moaned.
They never changed their mind. They just skipped SC2 for one event due to redbull having something on the same weekend. They never "dropped it" like a lot of the "ded geam" people wanted to believe.
Yup, it was more the community who whined so much and made the mess of it + some bad pr by MLG again. Adam and Sundance even tweeted in the months back, that they don't give up on SC2 totally.
On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote: Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ?
So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing?
Could you please read what I wrote and understand it correctly? Stereotypes are always a smile but please grow to a better human being. Always this "he he said something against America so I will fire back even if it is a fail...
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
If MLG started selling alchohol, then I wouldn't watch it. Fuck, could you imagine a DRUNK MLG crowd? Imagine the "BUUUUUH, YOU SUUUUCK" etc that we have to hear on stream (constant) and the normal-functional people in the crowd that had to witness it? Imo bad bad idea
imagine when people Buuuh'ed at Flash, but worse *shrugs*
sorry, i just have no trust in nerds, venues and alchol ^^
Going to any major sporting event amply demonstrates the effect of less than knowledgeable fans, alcohol and any perceived lull in the action. Before I stopped going to football/hockey/combat sports events I had to almost physically restrain myself from choking certain people. The Esports crowds are generally very mannered though, probably because someone who is only casually interested probably won't bother going to an MLG event.
How about selling weed instead? That would get everyone in a good mood and would likely be highly profitable. Would sound pretty cool too, "I'm a professional event manager and aspiring drug dealer".
Very true indeed.
Was tempted to give the same "Weed" answer, but i'm afraid that ain't realistic.... unless it was held in Ca-li-for-nia
On January 09 2014 23:15 Plansix wrote: It's one of the reasons we love GSL so much, because it is so focused.
No many around the world watch GSL becauuse it has the highest competition and skill level. Many would not watch a GSL SEA for example focussing on the SEA scene
It's so focused on providing the highest level of compitition and the Korean scene. Glad we agree. MGL is goin to focus on a different product, rather to trying to just recreate the GSL by flying over 40 Korean players.
Well MLG didn't water its own product by letting other nations compete besides Americas and so be "unfocussed". The problem of MLG has always been the years before that they have thrown money around like there is no tomorrow (like flying many Koreans in at MLG's cost) and burning venture capital with that in contrast to Dreamhack or ESL e.g. ANd i still remember the tweets of SUndance and Adam how happy they were with the increase of concurrent viewers per event. IMO the focussing on the Americas scene is due to the fact that they don't want to spend so much money on Starcraft 2 anymore (. And taking Destiny as a co-caster is not the best move IMO.
That said that i am happy for the NA scene that a american esports company finally provides them with a Americas tourney they always wanted. So it is up to the NA scene now, if it is actually profitable in the end for MLG.
They did the same thing with dota. They didn't fly teams out or give them special treatment. It's less about not want to spend less money and more about taking advantage of the people who want to play locally.
Well in the end it is all about money. They just didn't do it based on their experience with SC2. Flying four dota teams in and u have to pay for 20 persons.
But back in the days 2011, koreans provided much viewership from all over the world which showed itself in ever increasing viewers from event to event which was also essential for MLG to acquire more venture capital. As long as only Americans competed, MLG was not really recognized at least by the EU community. That changed with EU and Koreans competing there. And Koreans didn't fly to foreign tournaments at that time excapt by paying the costs for them Now that MLG is known, some EU people will at least watch a Amercian only tournament. ANd they can have the luxury that they don't have to fly so many people in
On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote: Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ?
So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing?
Could you please read what I wrote and understand it correctly? Stereotypes are always a smile but please grow to a better human being. Always this "he he said something against America so I will fire back even if it is a fail...
Ok, someone needs to cut back on the Hateraid and not ask people to "become a better human being" in their posts.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
i'm european like boxerfred and while i watch our own scene for several reasons (ppl you see at lans/play on the ladder/cup and co) i don't give a shit about an NA only tournament. If it works, good for you, if it doesn't it's a bit sad but I clearly wont watch subpar play, most of the time totally unoriginal for the sake of supporting a scene 5000km away lol.
I agree with this guy.
I really hope it works out for the NA scene , they could use something like this , and I honestly hope destiny gets fired....still don't like the guy ever since the last witch hunt.
Which hunt was that? People who don't like Destiny just don't get it. But me and Sundance on the other hand, we get it, okay, WE GET IT.
You get it ? Ok hook me up then , help me GET IT.
and again , I hope this works out for NA and their player base.
Because more or less everything he said in the ded gaem post was true. People didn't like it because sometimes he used mean words. This idea that Destiny somehow damaged the game is mildly amusing at best.
The reason people didn't like it was because he was pulling numbers out of nowhere and painted a doomsday scenario which spawned so much negativity that this community became unbearable to interact with for several months afterwards. He definitely had a point in there somewhere, but the reason people didn't like his post had to do with more than just "mean words". Doa posted an excellent response to the post where he said that while it's important to recognize potential problems with the game and the scene, poisoning the community with an extreme amount of negativity is the wrong way to go about it. Destiny responded with what was honestly a pretty stupid comment about how Doa wanted everyone to wear rose-tinted glasses and ignore everything (indicating that he either didn't read or understand the post, since that's the opposite of what Doa said).
Whether or not the chicken little episode actually hurt the game and it's popularity is up for debate, but it doesn't take a genius to see that a community that hates itself and predicts its own death might be less appealing to be a part of. It also doesn't take a genuis to see that the community has done stuff like this more than once (it happened again, only a few months ago, when stream numbers started to go down due to WCS oversaturation), and it tends to just die down after a particularly memorable tournament or something else awesome.
I'm not a Destiny hater and I'm glad to see him be a part of this project, but there are legitimate reasons for not liking his proclamation of the game dying and the bandwagon that followed.
Just to be clear since I'm quoted in this series of posts , the reason why I dislike destiny isn't because he proclaimed that the game will die , I couldnt care less about what he thinks.
Meh,they did so many things wrong, but people still approve of them. In a normal business they would be burned in "our" corner of the market. Maybe some Americans will care, MLG doesn't care about me anyways, I am not their client so who cares what happens.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
If MLG started selling alchohol, then I wouldn't watch it. Fuck, could you imagine a DRUNK MLG crowd? Imagine the "BUUUUUH, YOU SUUUUCK" etc that we have to hear on stream (constant) and the normal-functional people in the crowd that had to witness it? Imo bad bad idea
imagine when people Buuuh'ed at Flash, but worse *shrugs*
sorry, i just have no trust in nerds, venues and alchol ^^
Going to any major sporting event amply demonstrates the effect of less than knowledgeable fans, alcohol and any perceived lull in the action. Before I stopped going to football/hockey/combat sports events I had to almost physically restrain myself from choking certain people. The Esports crowds are generally very mannered though, probably because someone who is only casually interested probably won't bother going to an MLG event.
How about selling weed instead? That would get everyone in a good mood and would likely be highly profitable. Would sound pretty cool too, "I'm a professional event manager and aspiring drug dealer".
Very true indeed.
Was tempted to give the same "Weed" answer, but i'm afraid that ain't realistic.... unless it was held in Ca-li-for-nia
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
If MLG started selling alchohol, then I wouldn't watch it. Fuck, could you imagine a DRUNK MLG crowd? Imagine the "BUUUUUH, YOU SUUUUCK" etc that we have to hear on stream (constant) and the normal-functional people in the crowd that had to witness it? Imo bad bad idea
imagine when people Buuuh'ed at Flash, but worse *shrugs*
sorry, i just have no trust in nerds, venues and alchol ^^
WCS EU has a full bar, and a tiny venue. Never noticed any problems there.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
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I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
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I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Or to put it another way, there is a huge difference between complaining to help them improve and bitching because you aren't getting exactly want you want and you don't like any of the answers. The people who are bitching that it's an NA focused event have plenty of other content to watch, so it's not unreasonable to say "take your negativity elsewhere, I want to watch an NA event."
You're entitle to your opinion and I'm entitled to tell you that it might suck.
On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote: One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising.
Getting a liquor license for one of the venues they use would be a nightmare. They are not only responsible for selling the booze, but also making sure it isn't ending up in the hands of under aged kids.
Many of the vendors are probably already licensed. I'm just not sure of the liquor laws for allowing a licensed alcohol vendor on your premises. For example, consider the many outdoor events that have alcohol vendor booths. These locations are likely unlicensed, while the vendor itself is licensed.
If it was profitable, I think MLG would have jumped on it a long time ago, the margins on liquor at these events are obscene. However, I'd hate to see the stream die because some drunk idiot spilled beer on electrical equipment haha.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
On January 10 2014 01:00 Plansix wrote: Or to put it another way, there is a huge difference between complaining to help them improve and bitching because you aren't getting exactly want you want and you don't like any of the answers. The people who are bitching that it's an NA focused event have plenty of other content to watch, so it's not unreasonable to say "take your negativity elsewhere, I want to watch an NA event."
You're entitle to your opinion and I'm entitled to tell you that it might suck.
This is probably the biggest confusion I see in regards to free expression, you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to protection from ridicule if said opinion is stupid.
MLG is doing a tournament, which is better than MLG not doing a tournament. That's really all there is to it. As a bonus, they are doing cool things like trying to help NA out and bringing back open brackets. Some will not like this. That's fine. Providing feedback on what you dislike will generally be better received than just going "fuck MLG".
Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote: Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ?
So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing?
Could you please read what I wrote and understand it correctly? Stereotypes are always a smile but please grow to a better human being. Always this "he he said something against America so I will fire back even if it is a fail...
What you wrote was retarded. "Is there no 'is this wrong' or 'does it sound even retarded too' thingy at MLG"
Nothing about what they wrote was wrong or sounds retarded. By stating that it is wrong or sounds retarded implies that you disagree with this event being put on in general. More importantly it implies that you believe this is a negative thing.
I don't care that you've written that you think it's bad, that's totally cool, others have too. But don't defend what you've said as if the poster you're replying to was incorrect in what he said. That's general negativity, he's telling you to explain why you think it's negative. I don't know what language they speak in Croatia and I'm not going to google it, but if English is not your first language do not attack others for not understanding what you said unless you can read through it and see no conceivable way it can be misconstrued. Oy.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Why did you even quote me? I don't see how anything I posted can be considered as being spoiled, entitled or fleeting.
Or how the opinion 'this tournament does not strike me as very interesting TO ME, I wish they had the old MLG tournaments' can be considered stupid.
On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote: Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season.
Cool, it's nice to hear good news for SC2 scene. Will tune in if the games are broadcasted in european-friendly times/if VODs are free. Anaheim sounds great with the open bracket, I hope there is no silly extended series rule anymore?
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote: Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ?
So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing?
Could you please read what I wrote and understand it correctly? Stereotypes are always a smile but please grow to a better human being. Always this "he he said something against America so I will fire back even if it is a fail...
I really am trying to understand your post and this one as well. Could you explain it to me? Because it just seems like you're saying that this "is wrong" and "retarded" to have an "Only American Online Competition".
On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote: Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season.
Sorry to harp on it, but are you guys still discussing whether or not to allow EU/KR players at Anaheim?
On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote: Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season.
Sorry to harp on it, but are you guys still discussing whether or not to allow EU/KR players at Anaheim?
Still discussing. We won't have a decision for a few weeks.
Well here's to hoping they have an event in Columbus again! I was so excited for Columbus last year and then crushed when they weren't having SC2. Would love to go to another live tourney.
On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote: Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season.
Sorry to harp on it, but are you guys still discussing whether or not to allow EU/KR players at Anaheim?
Still discussing. We won't have a decision for a few weeks.
Ok cool. I'm really feeling that you guys are taking a lot of community feedback. Keep up the good work!
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
It's very nice to hear you say this. The community can be very frustrating to communicate with at times, but overall, I think there's a benefit to speak out and tell your side of any story and not let random people online write it for you.
I actually don't like Destiny as a caster. You wouldn't think this, but in all his previous casting gigs he was very reserved and kind of boring. Maybe he would do better as an analyst? Honestly, I think that Destiny&Catz&Totalbiscuit would be a good combo, but I think currently it's lacking.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
You should really be careful treating the community as adults. We are not very smart and we like drama and convenient narratives. All that has to happen is for MLG to make one misstep and then all your transparency from the past will be used against you with select quotations thrown back in your face. It's better to take a strategic approach and use a manipulative PR style. Transparency often ends up hurting people's feelings (even if their feelings are stupid) and you can't afford this as a company, I would say. To this day there are people frantically upset at MLG because you didn't give the proper fluff PR response to dropping SC2.
Thanks MLG_Adam for not only communicating with the community, but also for reading and implementing feedback from the fans.
Whilst a few small America-only tournaments are great for the scene, I think MLG still needs international events to keep up the reputation and hype surrounding the brand. No need for a 75k event, and paying tens of thousands to fly and house two dozen people from across the world - just enough to attract a decent amount of top level players, whilst allowing locals and their favourites opportunities.
On January 10 2014 02:03 Grumbels wrote: I actually don't like Destiny as a caster. You wouldn't think this, but in all his previous casting gigs he was very reserved and kind of boring. Maybe he would do better as an analyst? Honestly, I think that Destiny&Catz&Totalbiscuit would be a good combo, but I think currently it's lacking.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
You should really be careful treating the community as adults. We are not very smart and we like drama and convenient narratives. All that has to happen is for MLG to make one misstep and then all your transparency from the past will be used against you with select quotations thrown back in your face. It's better to take a strategic approach and use a manipulative PR style. Transparency often ends up hurting people's feelings (even if their feelings are stupid) and you can't afford this as a company, I would say. To this day there are people frantically upset at MLG because you didn't give the proper fluff PR response to dropping SC2.
Thank you for understanding this. I get very, very frustrated at this community. There's so few posters on this site (outside of content creators) that, when I see them post, I think "I'd totally get a beer with this guy". Plansix, you're one of 'em - stay classy.
i request i get my banned 2 days back . . . . . . . . he pretty much agreed totally with me so why is a statement of fact a bannable act . . only playin, good to hear!!! flipped the fully support switch back to on!
Thanks, I would get a beer with a lot of folks from TL. It would be a good time. I work under the theory that if I support someone and show them I enjoy their product, they will listen to me if I have an issue or complaint. MLG was my first bing Esports event I watched and attended, and they have always provided good stuff. I love Sc2 and I want to do what I can to support it.
Otherwise I won't be able to use those Protoss beer mugs my fiancé got me.
Off topic (sort of) because I can not find much info on this, but for DotA2 (which as practically all of us said, was amazing at Columbus) are there going to be invites and 1 qualifier for NA teams or are you going to strictly qualifiers/invites? This is for Anaheim, of course.
On January 10 2014 02:34 Doneyear wrote: Great to see SC2 at MLG again!
Off topic (sort of) because I can not find much info on this, but for DotA2 (which as practically all of us said, was amazing at Columbus) are there going to be invites and 1 qualifier for NA teams or are you going to strictly qualifiers/invites? This is for Anaheim, of course.
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
Thanks for the honest answer and ur explanation. Well i don't follow the DOTA scene since dota is not my cup of tea. But i am looking forward to ur new style of communication. I hope u improve ur PR by a lot and i don't need a fluff PR or share the opinion that u shoud not treat the community as adults. It is just that u have to judge better what an impact a tweet/news can create if something is important is left out or not explained to a certain extend. If u would have tweeted and made a news that SC2 will not be present at Columbus because of a colliding big event but u will continue to support it (even if on a lower scale) there wouldn't have been so much irritation and upheaval in the community.I know that u tweeted a few days later that it does not mean u would drop SC2 support entirely but that was just crashed by the wave of anger which u caused before. And u really didn't try to correct this notion later especially after the departure of Axeltoss and Axslav.
I acknowledge u came a long way and improved over the years dramatically. I watched even 2010 MLG SC2 event(s) when the stream was really a pain in the a**. So improve ur PR/communication and organize good SC2 tournaments and people will cease rambling about MLG and maybe u can show and convince people by that u are as passionate as ESL and DH
On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote: America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me.
So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?
Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it.
And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else.
Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG
Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead".
__
I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again".
Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam.
tl;dr
Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude
So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this.
In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself.
It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal.
I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that.
It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds.
eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary.
People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way.
MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time.
The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
Thanks for speaking up so freely on the forum, it is much appreciated.
I for one long for the good old early WoL days with AM + EU participants. I can't imagine MLG without the naniwas from europe. Those were the days!
Man some of the questions in this thread are absolutely hilariously retarded. "MLG would never do this if it wasnt for money" NO SHIT SHERLOCK! They are a business! We should be happy that there is another tournament in the U.S. Last year there were no big ones outside of WCS. This is great news!
Coma Devil, please please don't type "you" or "your", as "u" and "ur" on Teamliquid... Especially to Adam. I know it's not in my authority to say that, but it really irks me and makes the site appear less professional.
As for this announcement, I think it is very good news. I am quite shocked that people say that it'd be okay if you cut back support for Starcraft, but still supported it. I don't think MLG has time to host small events that attract very few viewers with prize pools of a few hundred dollars. I think better communication would have been very good, and it has been addressed already.
People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly. The truth is, that almost no SC2 events actually earn a worthwhile rate or return, and so, usually the people who run the events run them at a loss, or from support of Blizzard. This is the case with Shoutcraft, WCS, Redbull, etc... The only companies that I feel that actually turn a profit are likely ESL and Dreamhack, and especially Dreamhack feel like community events and not tournaments. Dreamhack is ran for the players, and well ESL I don't think is handled by the smartest people.
Now MLG, they are really cool guys. They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do. The events they put out are some of the best in esports, it's clear that the skills they possess surpass the producers of other content. If a game becomes large enough, and the audience for it is right, MLG will be one of the first companies that will be able to turn a profit on it, because it's skilled at what they do and they know how to bring the viewers in.
I am quite curious how this event will go, because truthfully, this event will likely bring in 20k-60k concurrent viewers which with that many viewers will be a pretty breakeven investment for the effort. When I looked through the breakdown of cost for the Shoutcraft, it did not break even, but this event will have a slightly smaller prize pool, a few more viewers, and also I think MLG has pretty sponsor affiliations to bring in more revenue, but still, I don't see anything huge happening.
The problem is see, is if MLG tries to expand this. As someone who has been following SC2, Dota, Broodwar, and have been visiting this site since 2007, there is in zero possibility this event can be expanded to say a 25k prize pool 2-3 day live event. Do we remember back in 2010 and 2011 when MLG was getting 100k-150k concurrent viewers for SC2 with 25k prize pools? That was having the best players, pretty much the most anticipated events in SC2, and the success of it is still quite questionable. Now the WCS NA finals brought in like 40k viewers. And WCS Finals brought in 80k or so. This is a lot less than the concurrents that MLG was bringing in before.
So my question for you MLGAdam, is what direction are you guys trying to take with this? Do you believe that these live 2-3 day live events are viable with these many viewers? In my eyes it doesn't make much sense to go offline unless the prize pool exceeds $10,000 or so. Do you believe events of these magnitude are sustainable in the long-term? If not, do you plan to hold smaller 2k-5k online events, or is that something too small for the scale you guys work at? Thank you!
Sorry if my post hopped around a lot, there is really a lot to discuss what's happening and I didn't want to make a really long comment.
On January 10 2014 03:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: Coma Devil, please please don't type "you" or "your", as "u" and "ur" on Teamliquid... Especially to Adam. I know it's not in my authority to say that, but it really irks me and makes the site appear less professional.
As for this announcement, I think it is very good news. I am quite shocked that people say that it'd be okay if you cut back support for Starcraft, but still supported it. I don't think MLG has time to host small events that attract very few viewers with prize pools of a few hundred dollars. I think better communication would have been very good, and it has been addressed already.
People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly. The truth is, that almost no SC2 events actually earn a worthwhile rate or return, and so, usually the people who run the events run them at a loss, or from support of Blizzard. This is the case with Shoutcraft, WCS, Redbull, etc... The only companies that I feel that actually turn a profit are likely ESL and Dreamhack, and especially Dreamhack feel like community events and not tournaments. Dreamhack is ran for the players, and well ESL I don't think is handled by the smartest people.
Now MLG, they are really cool guys. They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do. The events they put out are some of the best in esports, it's clear that the skills they possess surpass the producers of other content. If a game becomes large enough, and the audience for it is right, MLG will be one of the first companies that will be able to turn a profit on it, because it's skilled at what they do and they know how to bring the viewers in.
I am quite curious how this event will go, because truthfully, this event will likely bring in 20k-60k concurrent viewers which with that many viewers will be a pretty breakeven investment for the effort. When I looked through the breakdown of cost for the Shoutcraft, it did not break even, but this event will have a slightly smaller prize pool, a few more viewers, and also I think MLG has pretty sponsor affiliations to bring in more revenue, but still, I don't see anything huge happening.
The problem is see, is if MLG tries to expand this. As someone who has been following SC2, Dota, Broodwar, and have been visiting this site since 2007, there is in zero possibility this event can be expanded to say a 25k prize pool 2-3 day live event. Do we remember back in 2010 and 2011 when MLG was getting 100k-150k concurrent viewers for SC2 with 25k prize pools? That was having the best players, pretty much the most anticipated events in SC2, and the success of it is still quite questionable. Now the WCS NA finals brought in like 40k viewers. And WCS Finals brought in 80k or so. This is a lot less than the concurrents that MLG was bringing in before.
So my question for you MLGAdam, is what direction are you guys trying to take with this? Do you believe that these live 2-3 day live events are viable with these many viewers? In my eyes it doesn't make much sense to go offline unless the prize pool exceeds $10,000 or so. Do you believe events of these magnitude are sustainable in the long-term? If not, do you plan to hold smaller 2k-5k online events, or is that something too small for the scale you guys work at? Thank you!
Sorry if my post hopped around a lot, there is really a lot to discuss what's happening and I didn't want to make a really long comment.
For starters we ended 2013 with 2 quarters of profitability, a milestone. This is all due to utilizing our own player.
Second, there will be large LANs for SC2 in North America this year. I have already announced a large one in Anaheim June 20-22 and I have another one I'm planning prior (not a Pro Circuit event, but something else...).
With the use of our player we are able to control our product and monetize it better. As a content creator that spends millions of dollars annually to actually produce content, it made no business sense to let someone else distribute it and monetize it.
Even with modest #s SC2 will be a profitable endeavor. I have big plans and they will be done hand in hand with practical common sense and community interaction.
On January 10 2014 03:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly... Now MLG, they are really cool guys... They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do...
This is getting out of control.
Let's not pretend that MLG returning to SC2 is the second coming of Christ, and they did no wrong before. And I say this, as an MLG Gold Member, who thinks MLG events are the best events out there, with the most excitement and would love to attend one. In fact, when we had to cut our expenses, I stopped buying GSL tickets, and tickets to other events, and only purchased MLG Gold Memberships and tickets.
Most of the logical hate directed at MLG has nothing to do the fact their events are awesome, or that they are company trying to make money. It has to do with their shady business practices. They are not cool and passionate gamers, they are hardly professional and have proven to be downright devious.
And as an MLG Gold Member, I remember the drama when MLG "changed" formats and left Gold Members in the dust. Suddenly, we couldn't view Arena's without paying. It was classic bait and switch. They sold Gold Memberships that allowed people to access to "Pro Circuit HQ Streams" then told us we'd have to pay for Arenas, because Arena's weren't part of the Pro Circuit!
Oh really MLG? Arena's aren't part of the Pro Circuit? Let's see how you advertised it:
Later, they announced that SC2 won't be part of their next big event (Colombus, 2013) and are intentionally sly about whether or not SC2 will return. Really no one knew? Look at this post:
Fact is, had they known they were done or weren't with SC2, they would have told us. But MLG was waiting to see which way the wind blew in terms of their business to see if it makes sense. That is fine, but tell us, it'd be the professional thing to do.
And the real problem here is that MLG pretends to be part of the community, and invested in the community as if they are "passionate gamers" but then when the business climate changes, they are first to head to the hills. Just like they've done with other titles in the past. They pretend they are passionate about the community, but they are here for money and that is why people "dislike MLG because it wants to make money," because they are disingenuous.
If they were open and honest about, it'd be different (and they wouldn't have screwed over their Gold Members or bailed on SC2 when the community was bleeding if they actually cared about the community...)... but they pretend to care and ask the community for favors, like people buying their PPV... then bail when conditions aren't good.
MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2. But, of course, MLG is happy to pretend to be if it makes them money.
There are some other issues (which I can elaborate on if need be) that make me question the passion and professionalism of MLG toward SC2, but overall I'm happy we'll be getting more SC2 content from them, because what they do produce is very good.
Just don't forget their past; it wasn't all sunshine and roses.
Mistakes were made and MLG said they could have communicated better. They apologized and have done good work recently with dota. In my opinion, all that stuff from earlier is water under the bridge. If people have complaints about the past, they can take them to MLG directly, since they don't have a lot to do with the upcomming MLG events.
We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
I think people can call them whatever they want and they are entitled to do so. I think they are and that they really care about the games and the people involved in SC2 and dota. You might not agree, but that isn't going to change my mind.
Adam, I've only visited the MLG player once during the Dota tournament. It didn't let me watch because of adblock - is your player detect adblock and reject those viewers? I'll happily disable it for MLG, but I'm just wondering if what I observed/remember is accurate.
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
How do you know what I'm passionate about?
By your actions.
So 4 years of event activity, of treating the players extremely well, of trying our best to service the fans (sometimes without self awareness, admittedly), etc. is not factored into the equation of 'your actions'?
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
How do you know what I'm passionate about?
By your actions.
You do know that Adam helped the dota team, Speed gaming get plane tickets home after their manager had a full public melt down? And he went to bat for them on reddit when their manager decided to trash talk them after winning MLG. He didn't need to do either. How is that not passionate?
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
How do you know what I'm passionate about?
By your actions.
Dude lay off the dude's cock. Christ, you are so caught up looking at MLG in a bad light that you seem to forget all the GOOD actions MLG Adam and his staff have done for SC2. Remember how they fucked up in their first SC2 MLG? Then the next tournament they came back with a vengeance because they knew SC2 was important to the community. Sundance would always try to pull strings and do shit the SC2 community wanted. They always listened and did great work. Yeah, it sucks they dropped SC2 and they messed up that Gold membership stuff, but labeling them all as phony gamers with no passion? Where do you find such immature generalizations? How can someone who works in Esports on such a scale as MLG have no passion for gaming? More than most of us. So stop with the stupid judgments because it is embarrassing to see you hating on them when they are trying to bring SC2 back.
And, it is NOT their fault that SC2 was not bringing in numbers and was declining from the WoL era.
Dallas 2013 was one of my favorite events. We designed it with the fans in mind. Every match was streamed, every player was flown in after qualifying, and it peaked at 135,000. The event was hailed as a massive success by fans, and we were thrilled. We announced that weekend via DJWheat on stage that every pro circuit for the rest of the year would be similar: high level, tightly produced, main stage only streamed matches.
However, things changed, things outside of our control. We tried to adapt and shift on a dime, but lead time, available resources, and the inability to achieve something that at the time was unachievable spelled our 'doom'. However, please don't say we were never passionate about the community. We might have fallen but that does not mean we didn't care.
When I put my name on something I like to do it right. Hopefully we can do a better job keeping you guys informed and involved moving forward as its obvious we did a horrific job previously.
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
How do you know what I'm passionate about?
By your actions.
Dude lay off the dude's cock. Christ, you are so caught up looking at MLG in a bad light that you seem to forget all the GOOD actions MLG Adam and his staff have done for SC2. Remember how they fucked up in their first SC2 MLG? Then the next tournament they came back with a vengeance because they knew SC2 was important to the community. Sundance would always try to pull strings and do shit the SC2 community wanted. They always listened and did great work. Yeah, it sucks they dropped SC2 and they messed up that Gold membership stuff, but labeling them all as phony gamers with no passion? Where do you find such immature generalizations? How can someone who works in Esports on such a scale as MLG have no passion for gaming? More than most of us. So stop with the stupid judgments because it is embarrassing to see you hating on them when they are trying to bring SC2 back.
And, it is NOT their fault that SC2 was not bringing in numbers and was declining from the WoL era.
I ran my own grassroots events before I ever met Sunny and Mike. I had a nearly full ride to law school waiting for me but I turned it down to roll the dice on a job offer from MLG...their first employee after the co founders. I care way more than I should about the brand we have built, the community we have helped create, and the product we put on.
I certainly want a profitable business, but I also want to create something that people enjoy. That is why I work 100+ hours during an event week. It is complete passion for what I do.
4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has to take venture capital to stay alive right...again?
BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example.
ps: Can I please get the contact ID´s of your venture capital people? I have a lot of Ideas that will never work but I would like to try it for at least 10 years. <3
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has again to take venture capital to stay alive right?
BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already.
This is a pretty rude post and grossly misinformed. Because we took venture capital money we were 'burning it' which denotes spending it unwisely. I'm sure our board of directors and investors would not appreciate that. When a company is 'not profitable' it does not mean hemorrhaging money. We have always been close on a P&L level to being profitable.
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has to take venture capital to stay alive right...again?
BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example.
We have a expert of venture capital on out hands here, folks. When people were saying that there are parts of the community that are fustrating to deal with, they were talking about this guy.
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has to take venture capital to stay alive right...again?
BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example.
ps: Can I please get the contact ID´s of your venture capital people? I have a lot of Ideas that will never work but I would like to try it for at least 10 years. <3
So you've had a look at MLG's financials yourself or is this more of your now infamous random uninformed bashing of a company trying to help the scene?
On January 10 2014 05:05 Plansix wrote: We can talk about MLG and beig excited by what is to come without going through a 4 year laundry list of grievances.
Sure, you want to talk about the future? Great, I'd be happy too.
But don't look at the past and call them invested in the SC2 community, or passionate cool gamers. They aren't. Perhaps in the future they will be, but as of right now, they aren't.
As I said, MLG is a business that sometimes produces high quality SC2 content when it makes business sense, nothing else. They are not part of the community, they are not passionate about SC2.
How do you know what I'm passionate about?
By your actions.
Erm, do you know anyone else who has been responding to so many stupid and many insulting questions as Adam in the community? And do you know long he has been doing this?
Maybe the entire MLG isn't like him, but it is clear that there are people at MLG who are really passionate, and Adam is one of them. MLG has made mistakes in the past, but they have also revolutionized the esports scene in many games. Yes, MLG do try and push you to buy/pay for their content, but I mean in this industry it's necessary. They have tried different models, try a PPV, etc. But in the end, there aren't any scams MLG has tried to do, probably some complications that didn't turn out the way they had hoped, in where they didn't respond correctly.
Surely you are also not including all the good MLG has done. They have the best crowds, they treat players very well with nice hotels, they pay winnings right away. And offer a very complete package. They do offer a premium esport product, and some people want that premium esport content... I suppose they do charge a decent amount for their content opposed to others. But all this stuff costs a lot to make, and some people want to watch premium tournaments and not mediocre production etc. I want that, and I'm willing to pay for it. Hockey, football, tennis would not have very good production if there weren't people that would spend $150 to see games live. People who pay to watch UFC, etc. MLG always tries to set the bar, and actually monetize it, just like how conventional sports are monetized. I would say out of any western company, MLG does the best job to bringing games to the way many sports operate. It's more costly, but I think it's better. Brings more legitimacy as well as more entertainment.
On January 10 2014 05:31 tadL wrote: 4 years + of burning venture capital and a lot of more years with making not even a dollar is factored? Serious, please Adam stop acting like MLG did something right with their product. Only thing MLG did right and I respect MLG a lot for it is finding people that just pumping money into a idea that failed for so long and just maybe now thx to PC gaming is making money. But that will be shown if MLG has to take venture capital to stay alive right...again?
BTW did you correct the statement. Or does MLG still claim to be "Only American Online Competition"? Because I kind of think the simple Starcraft 2 ladder by Blizzard is offering this already for example.
ps: Can I please get the contact ID´s of your venture capital people? I have a lot of Ideas that will never work but I would like to try it for at least 10 years. <3
So you've had a look at MLG's financials yourself or is this more of your now infamous random uninformed bashing of a company trying to help the scene?
Earnings hardly tell the whole story for why people invest in a company. Amazon's basically negative as often as it is positive these days (after what? ~10 years post-IPO of being negative?).
So ya, it's just a random uninformed bash.
In any case, this thread is turning into a really strange flame war...
You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
Well I hope your post wasn't directed at me, because I've spent many, many dimes on the scene. I put my hard earned money into SC2, and then I got ripped off because of a bait and switch scheme... if MLG was seriously passionate about the SC2 community, they wouldn't have done that. Even Alex Garfield called them out for it ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311778 ). And that isn't the only incident.
So yeah, fuck me, fuck those people who expect to get what they pay for. Fuck them for being mad MLG ripped em off...
This isn't a joke TB. This is people's money, and this is the credibility of E-Sports.
Listen, I'm excited about MLG returning, read at my posts, look at my post history. But as I said, let's not pretend this is the second coming of Christ.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey.
I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied.
I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ...
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
Well I hope your post wasn't directed at me, because I've spent many, many dimes on the scene. I put my hard earned money into SC2, and then I got ripped off because of a bait and switch scheme... if MLG was seriously passionate about the SC2 community, they wouldn't have done that. Even Alex Garfield called them out for it. And that isn't the only incident.
So yeah, fuck me, fuck those people who expect to get what they pay for. Fuck them for being mad MLG ripped em off...
Listen, I'm excited about MLG returning, read at my posts, look at my post history. But as I said, let's not pretend this is the second coming of Christ.
Let's be happy, and wary.
Alex did not say it was a bait and switch, he was mad that his players would be behind a pay wall; he has sponsors to worry about (rightly so)
As to the bait and switch thing, that is not accurate. We sold gold membership with X amount of events announced. We rolled in arenas later creating a new product. We can debate this all day and we would both make good points, but at the end of the day I doubt we'll ever agree. My only point was it was not an intentional f you to customers.
Close to means what? You never reached it, you barely reached it, you made 1 dollar? Or does it just mean nothing but you have to say something without really answering to a question?
I know you have to do this and I am not angry its your job. The only reason MLG still exists is because you have someone in your company that can rise venture capital over and over again. This I respect. But it also shows that you never understood how to make money with eSport like other companies in this industry. Ofc being an US company sucks in terms of esport for many reasons. Infrastructure to just take one example. I get it.
And I also get why MLG is trying to sell everything positive and as a gift. Saying it in a way that is also true but not as positive is bad marketing (?), I get it. And I bet helping streamers to get a shedule out to maximase "their" profit is such a thing. Ofc its just for the best of the "streamer" right?
But dont try this PR nonsense with me please. Lets better hope the investors or venture capital people dont just do the usual thing. Cut a company in parts to sell as much of it and get some money back. And I hope you have a business running and you are not relaying on Riot to pay a lot of your bills.
And lets hope you make a good job for the next event to improve the streaming viewer experience if no game is running.
On January 10 2014 06:04 tadL wrote: Close to means what? You never reached it, you barely reached it, you made 1 dollar? Or does it just mean nothing but you have to say something without really answering to a question?
I know you have to do this and I am not angry its your job. The only reason MLG still exists is because you have someone in your company that can rise venture capital over and over again. This I respect. But it also shows that you never understood how to make money with eSport like other companies in this industry. Ofc being an US company sucks in terms of esport for many reasons. Infrastructure to just take one example. I get it.
And I also get why MLG is trying to sell everything positive and as a gift. Saying it in a way that is also true but not as positive is bad marketing (?), I get it. And I bet helping streamers to get a shedule out to maximase "their" profit is such a thing. Ofc its just for the best of the "streamer" right?
But dont try this PR nonsense with me please. Lets better hope the investors or venture capital people dont just do the usual thing. Cut a company in parts to sell as much of it and get some money back. And I hope you have a business running and you are not relaying on Riot to pay a lot of your bills.
And lets hope you make a good job for the next event to improve the streaming viewer experience if no game is running.
Are you serious? We received investment money because what were doing was profitable and had potential for exponential growth. The model is difficult to predict when you take something smaller, infuse capital into it, and hope the ROI is there. We are still figuring it out, but to say that we're only alive because we received venture capital is wrong. We received venture capital because we saw potential to grow our successful business into something else.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey.
I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied.
I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ...
Anyone who's done statistical work knows that it's crucial to get opinions from people whether they want to give them or not rather than just relying on people opt-ing in. And that's because people with strong-feelings are much, much more likely to opt-in. This isn't just pop-psychology, but something study after study has proven how voluntary feedback can lead to skewed results.
So ya, forums aren't just good at finding the vocal minority, they basically *are* the vocal minority.
Now, I'm not sure if there's a reason or bias towards unhappy/negativity when it comes to having strong feelings since the key word is 'strong' feelings.
Edit: Of course forums aren't exactly surveys, but similar concept I think for people who decide to post / those who lurk.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey.
I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied.
I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ...
Anyone who's done statistical work knows that it's crucial to get opinions from people whether they want to give them or not rather than just relying on people opt-ing in. And that's because people with strong-feelings are much, much more likely to opt-in. This isn't just pop-psychology, but something study after study has proven how voluntary feedback can lead to skewed results.
So ya, forums aren't just good at finding the vocal minority, they basically *are* the vocal minority.
Now, I'm not sure if there's a reason or bias towards unhappy/negativity when it comes to having strong feelings since the key word is 'strong' feelings.
Edit: Of course forums aren't exactly surveys, but similar concept I think for people who decide to post / those who lurk.
Yeah, that's pretty much the case. Most threads like this are filled with wannabe armchair businessmen that don't have any idea what is going on, pretending that they do. That would be fine if they didn't also have the audacity to attack people that actually do know their shit. The PR friendly thing to say in that situation is "we are so happy to see the community so passionate about this subject!". The realtalk thing to say is "fuck me this is dumb"
On January 10 2014 03:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: Coma Devil, please please don't type "you" or "your", as "u" and "ur" on Teamliquid... Especially to Adam. I know it's not in my authority to say that, but it really irks me and makes the site appear less professional.
As for this announcement, I think it is very good news. I am quite shocked that people say that it'd be okay if you cut back support for Starcraft, but still supported it. I don't think MLG has time to host small events that attract very few viewers with prize pools of a few hundred dollars. I think better communication would have been very good, and it has been addressed already.
People seem to dislike MLG because it wants to make money, and that is obviously very silly. The truth is, that almost no SC2 events actually earn a worthwhile rate or return, and so, usually the people who run the events run them at a loss, or from support of Blizzard. This is the case with Shoutcraft, WCS, Redbull, etc... The only companies that I feel that actually turn a profit are likely ESL and Dreamhack, and especially Dreamhack feel like community events and not tournaments. Dreamhack is ran for the players, and well ESL I don't think is handled by the smartest people.
Now MLG, they are really cool guys. They are passionate gamers, and they are professionals, they are smart people, they need to be able to earn a living with what they do. The events they put out are some of the best in esports, it's clear that the skills they possess surpass the producers of other content. If a game becomes large enough, and the audience for it is right, MLG will be one of the first companies that will be able to turn a profit on it, because it's skilled at what they do and they know how to bring the viewers in.
I am quite curious how this event will go, because truthfully, this event will likely bring in 20k-60k concurrent viewers which with that many viewers will be a pretty breakeven investment for the effort. When I looked through the breakdown of cost for the Shoutcraft, it did not break even, but this event will have a slightly smaller prize pool, a few more viewers, and also I think MLG has pretty sponsor affiliations to bring in more revenue, but still, I don't see anything huge happening.
The problem is see, is if MLG tries to expand this. As someone who has been following SC2, Dota, Broodwar, and have been visiting this site since 2007, there is in zero possibility this event can be expanded to say a 25k prize pool 2-3 day live event. Do we remember back in 2010 and 2011 when MLG was getting 100k-150k concurrent viewers for SC2 with 25k prize pools? That was having the best players, pretty much the most anticipated events in SC2, and the success of it is still quite questionable. Now the WCS NA finals brought in like 40k viewers. And WCS Finals brought in 80k or so. This is a lot less than the concurrents that MLG was bringing in before.
So my question for you MLGAdam, is what direction are you guys trying to take with this? Do you believe that these live 2-3 day live events are viable with these many viewers? In my eyes it doesn't make much sense to go offline unless the prize pool exceeds $10,000 or so. Do you believe events of these magnitude are sustainable in the long-term? If not, do you plan to hold smaller 2k-5k online events, or is that something too small for the scale you guys work at? Thank you!
Sorry if my post hopped around a lot, there is really a lot to discuss what's happening and I didn't want to make a really long comment.
For starters we ended 2013 with 2 quarters of profitability, a milestone. This is all due to utilizing our own player.
Second, there will be large LANs for SC2 in North America this year. I have already announced a large one in Anaheim June 20-22 and I have another one I'm planning prior (not a Pro Circuit event, but something else...).
With the use of our player we are able to control our product and monetize it better. As a content creator that spends millions of dollars annually to actually produce content, it made no business sense to let someone else distribute it and monetize it.
Even with modest #s SC2 will be a profitable endeavor. I have big plans and they will be done hand in hand with practical common sense and community interaction.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey.
I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied.
I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ...
Anyone who's done statistical work knows that it's crucial to get opinions from people whether they want to give them or not rather than just relying on people opt-ing in. And that's because people with strong-feelings are much, much more likely to opt-in. This isn't just pop-psychology, but something study after study has proven how voluntary feedback can lead to skewed results.
So ya, forums aren't just good at finding the vocal minority, they basically *are* the vocal minority.
Now, I'm not sure if there's a reason or bias towards unhappy/negativity when it comes to having strong feelings since the key word is 'strong' feelings.
Edit: Of course forums aren't exactly surveys, but similar concept I think for people who decide to post / those who lurk.
What you're you totally missing (and this is the reason Republic's exist) is a review of what is going on. You're not actually assessing the situation, to see if what is said is right or wrong. You're just assuming the vocal minority is wrong since they are the minority. That is a logical fallacy.
See, if you interviewed people 1000 years ago and asked if the world was flat, most (if not all) would say it was. People didn't actually know better and that doesn't mean they are right, in fact, Pythagoras was. So use your brain and actually think about the points being made. The fact is, MLG has done some crappy stuff in the past, regardless of how many people think so or not. They even admitted it and apologized. Are we beyond that? I sure hope so, but let's not forget the past and gloss it over and pretend they are something they are not.
I'm not even sure what TotalBiscuit is referencing. I made my points, and he said that I haven't spent a dime on E-Sports (which is untrue, and I find it funny he accuses of me of reaching and assuming when he is doing the same thing) and therefore my points must be wrong. That is another logical fallacy, my points are wrong or right regardless of whether I spend billions or nothing on E-Sports. But he made (probably because he can't) no actual attempt to argue, he came here thinking that him being him means everyone would listen.
Which is (you guessed it!) another logical fallacy, authority.... just become someone holds some position, doesn't automatically make them right.
They actually have to prove it. I'm all for looking to the future, but when this thread turned into a "Told ya so, MLG has always been so awesome, you were wrong to criticize them," it needed correction.
On January 10 2014 05:44 TotalBiscuit wrote: You know what I love? People who have never spent a dime improving the scene criticizing the passion of people who have. How brave of you, how noble. No risk, no consequences and no balls.
Fuck those kind of people.
But TB, they are so horrible misinformed it's funny. Just think what it is like to wake up every day and be that dumb. It's almost tragic if they weren't such assholes.
And most of us are just through trying to inform them because we get witchhunted by the community when we do, so hey.
I think the problem is that forums are just really really good at finding the vocal minority. Even if you have a thread of 10 pages about people complaining about you, that's likely 100 people that are not happy with what you do, 50 saying good things, and 50 trying to tell the 100 that they are wrong. Then the rest of the tens of thousands are likely pretty satisfied.
I guess it's just an interesting dynamic, since those few negative people can really turn off people from a tournament, or really make someone start disliking a certain group, because people who are not very informed read the comment and make their opinion. Hard to really know what to do ...
Anyone who's done statistical work knows that it's crucial to get opinions from people whether they want to give them or not rather than just relying on people opt-ing in. And that's because people with strong-feelings are much, much more likely to opt-in. This isn't just pop-psychology, but something study after study has proven how voluntary feedback can lead to skewed results.
So ya, forums aren't just good at finding the vocal minority, they basically *are* the vocal minority.
Now, I'm not sure if there's a reason or bias towards unhappy/negativity when it comes to having strong feelings since the key word is 'strong' feelings.
Edit: Of course forums aren't exactly surveys, but similar concept I think for people who decide to post / those who lurk.
What you're you totally missing (and this is the reason Republic's exist) is a review of what is going on. You're not actually assessing the situation, to see if what is said is right or wrong. You're just assuming the vocal minority is wrong.
But if you interviewed people 1000 years ago and asked if the world was flat, most (if not all) would say it was. People didn't actually know better and that doesn't mean they are right. So use your brain and actually think about the points being made. The fact is, MLG has done some crappy stuff in the past, regardless of how many people think so or not. They even admitted it and apologized. Are we beyond that? I sure hope so, but let's not forget the past and gloss it over.
I'm not even sure what TotalBiscuit is referencing. I made my points, and he said that I haven't spent a dime on E-Sports (which is untrue, and I find it funny he accuses of me of reaching and assuming when he is doing the same thing) and therefore my points must be wrong. That is a logical fallacy, my points are wrong or right regardless of whether I spend billions or nothing on E-Sports. But he made (probably because he can't) no actual attempt to argue, he came here thinking that him being him means everyone would listen.
Which is another logical fallacy, authority....
You're heavily conflating collecting a reflective sample of a populations opinion versus determining fact, no where do I talk about fact or truth. Nor do I ever draw a conclusion on who's right or wrong.
You can indeed sample everyone in the world for any given question and find that the majority are flat out wrong.
The concept of a vocal minority is simply that, that they are a minority position that attracts the most attention to their point.
Pollsters have to work hard to include disinterested people because it's been proven that those with strongly held stances will respond to surveys, while most everyone else will ignore them. That sounds a lot like people who decide to log into TL to post something, which is why I made the analogy.
It has absolutely nothing to do with what's true or false, especially when most of what you're trying to promote are opinions anyways (not all) and I was really only replying to FiWiFaKi's point about vocal minorities and forums (also no idea what Republics have to do with anything).
Edit: Oh, you mean the Electoral system being designed so that majority rule doesn't trample minority interests? I guess the same concept applies to Republicanism too (not that it strictly has to of course, but does in the US).
On January 10 2014 08:29 Wuster wrote: ...especially when most of what you're trying to promote are opinions anyways (not all)...
This is obviously the contentious line. Is it an opinion that MLG created the Silver and Gold Membership advertising it as giving access to Pro Circuit HQ Streams? It is an opinion they they changed their product after selling Gold Memberships?
Those are not opinions, they are facts. I held my first MLG Gold membership from July 2011 to July 2012. They decided to introduce the Pro Circuit Winter Arena on February 13, 2012. Again, the product Gold Membership stated "Access to Pro Circuit HQ Streams". The Winter Arena was advertised as a Pro Circuit event. I was not given access to it or a refund, despite being a Gold member. None of that is opinion, it how they advertised their products!
It is indeed my opinion that we should be wary of them in the future. But what logical conclusion do you reach with the facts I've stated? Really, I'd like to know.
If I sold people one year subscriptions to a newspaper, then eliminated everything but the Sunday paper six months into people's subscriptions, people expecting papers the other days of the week would be pissed. They'd demand a refund too. If you can't deliver what you said you would, you make it right. Either give a refund, or deliver the papers. MLG did neither, despite MLG_Adam stating that MLG did they best they could.
Because in the end, it isn't about just determining facts, it is about forming your own educated opinion from the facts.
We get it guys, we have all been educated on that at one point MLG made mistakes and it is possible they will do so in the future. We really don't need to prove who believes what and its not really clear how that would happen. If you guys really want to hash it out, take it to PM.
On January 10 2014 08:29 Wuster wrote: ...especially when most of what you're trying to promote are opinions anyways (not all)...
This is obviously the contentious line. Is it an opinion that MLG created the Silver and Gold Membership advertising it as giving access to Pro Circuit HQ Streams? It is an opinion they they changed their product after selling Gold Memberships?
Those are opinions, they are facts. I held my first MLG Gold membership from July 2011 to July 2012. They decided to introduce the Pro Circuit Winter Arena on February 13, 2012. Again, the product Gold Membership stated "Access to Pro Circuit HQ Streams". The Winter Arena was advertised as a Pro Circuit event. I was not given access to it or a refund, despite being a Gold member. None of that is opinion, it how they advertised their products!
It is indeed my opinion that we should be wary of them in the future. But what logical conclusion do you reach with the facts I've stated?
Because in the end, it isn't about just determining facts, it is about forming your own educated opinion from the facts.
As far as I remember, Gold and Silver memberships still provided complete access to everything that was advertised for all events that were promoted when purchased. The PPV Arena event(s) were added onto the schedule later in the year, and were additional content. Sure, bad communication, advertising, etc. but the fact remains that your Gold/Silver membership would have looked exactly the same with or without the Winter Arena being held.
The fact is that MLG has held every tournament that they've announced and scheduled, they've paid prize money out in a timely manner (faster than almost every other organizer), they've fulfilled all promises to teams and players (from what we've heard and seen) and even gone above-and-beyond.
If the worst we have to be "wary" about is additional tournaments being excluded from Membership purchases, the same tournaments not being held every year, and a bit of annoying shit like extended series, then that makes MLG one of the most stable and trustworthy organizations in this business.
As far as I remember, Gold and Silver memberships still provided complete access to everything that was advertised for all events that were promoted when purchased. The PPV Arena event(s) were added onto the schedule later in the year, and were additional content. Sure, bad communication, advertising, etc. but the fact remains that your Gold/Silver membership would have looked exactly the same with or without the Winter Arena being held.
You gotta check your facts man before you make your educated opinion. I could watch 6 of 6 Pro Circuit events with a Gold Membership (which was advertised to give "Access to HQ Pro Circuit streams") in 2011. 4 of 8 in 2012, couldn't watch the Pro Circuit Arenas. That is fact.
So the fact is that Gold/Silver memberships looked totally different. That is also a fact.
As far as I remember, Gold and Silver memberships still provided complete access to everything that was advertised for all events that were promoted when purchased. The PPV Arena event(s) were added onto the schedule later in the year, and were additional content. Sure, bad communication, advertising, etc. but the fact remains that your Gold/Silver membership would have looked exactly the same with or without the Winter Arena being held.
You gotta check your facts man before you make your educated opinion. I could watch 6 of 6 Pro Circuit events with a Gold Membership (which was advertised to give "Access to HQ Pro Circuit streams") in 2011. 4 of 8 in 2012, couldn't watch the Pro Circuit Arenas. That is fact.
So the fact is that Gold/Silver memberships looked totally different. That is also a fact.
All right, we all accept that and agree. MLG apologized for it and said that the PPV was something they needed to do for their investors as a proof of concept. Judging by the negative feed back from the first time, its unlikely to happen again. So can we move on now?
On January 09 2014 05:10 joofro92 wrote: ok bring Smash back ^__^ sounds great
Smash Bros Melee? Yes. If SSBM is featured at MLG thousands of dicks will cum into the sky shower everyone with happiness.
You mean Halo 3. Rookie mistake, but I'll forgive you for it
Woooooaaah dude check yoself. Smashbros Melee is LEAGUES above any console FPS as an esport. It's a real shame that it's not bigger than it as at the moment. If it could make a comeback, justice will be restored to the world and all will be right again.
On January 10 2014 06:04 tadL wrote: Close to means what? You never reached it, you barely reached it, you made 1 dollar? Or does it just mean nothing but you have to say something without really answering to a question?
I know you have to do this and I am not angry its your job. The only reason MLG still exists is because you have someone in your company that can rise venture capital over and over again. This I respect. But it also shows that you never understood how to make money with eSport like other companies in this industry. Ofc being an US company sucks in terms of esport for many reasons. Infrastructure to just take one example. I get it.
And I also get why MLG is trying to sell everything positive and as a gift. Saying it in a way that is also true but not as positive is bad marketing (?), I get it. And I bet helping streamers to get a shedule out to maximase "their" profit is such a thing. Ofc its just for the best of the "streamer" right?
But dont try this PR nonsense with me please. Lets better hope the investors or venture capital people dont just do the usual thing. Cut a company in parts to sell as much of it and get some money back. And I hope you have a business running and you are not relaying on Riot to pay a lot of your bills.
And lets hope you make a good job for the next event to improve the streaming viewer experience if no game is running.
Are you serious? We received investment money because what were doing was profitable and had potential for exponential growth. The model is difficult to predict when you take something smaller, infuse capital into it, and hope the ROI is there. We are still figuring it out, but to say that we're only alive because we received venture capital is wrong. We received venture capital because we saw potential to grow our successful business into something else.
Are you serious because I am and my logic is quite simple...
because if I make simple examples more people can understand it, and its the internet and ofc I have to adapt to the home community
...explain me please why MLG needed so many times venture capital if MLG is profitable? Because if I am running a profitable business I rather take a bank credit and don't have to sell a part of my company? And again if MLG had not to do it and got the capital for free, please can I have the contacts. I have some great Ideas about eSport with Android vs Iphone phones and would love to run it at least for 10 years. I am serious about it!
Maybe we should let this be because you could prove me wrong easy but you are refusing to do so what is an indication that you cant. Or why would you refuse to do it? I mean thats important for the community isn't it?
Fun point for me. It was never about it. I am still wondering if MLG claims to be the "Only American Online Competition".
Next step: Ban Koreans except for those who are committed to stay in America (such as Polt). Really hate those Koreans who steal local players' prize money and go "cya fuckers" after the 2 day event ends. MLG to Koreans is like a vacation where as GSL to foreigners is like a bootcamp. Such unfairness.
On January 10 2014 13:19 ppshchik wrote: MLG finally making the right decisions.
Next step: Ban Koreans except for those who are committed to stay in America (such as Polt). Really hate those Koreans who steal local players' prize money and go "cya fuckers" after the 2 day event ends. MLG to Koreans is like a vacation where as GSL to foreigners is like a bootcamp. Such unfairness.
I know right it's so unfair how the better players win.
On January 09 2014 05:10 joofro92 wrote: ok bring Smash back ^__^ sounds great
Smash Bros Melee? Yes. If SSBM is featured at MLG thousands of dicks will cum into the sky shower everyone with happiness.
You mean Halo 3. Rookie mistake, but I'll forgive you for it
Woooooaaah dude check yoself. Smashbros Melee is LEAGUES above any console FPS as an esport. It's a real shame that it's not bigger than it as at the moment. If it could make a comeback, justice will be restored to the world and all will be right again.
Too bad OG Smash Bros. is better than melee. That's what needs to become an esport, not some sub-par sequel . PIKACHU FOR LIFE!
While I am glad that they are bringing SC2 back and hope I was wrong in them giving up on it, I think we need to be a bit more guarded before we give them our hearts again
On January 09 2014 05:10 joofro92 wrote: ok bring Smash back ^__^ sounds great
Smash Bros Melee? Yes. If SSBM is featured at MLG thousands of dicks will cum into the sky shower everyone with happiness.
You mean Halo 3. Rookie mistake, but I'll forgive you for it
Woooooaaah dude check yoself. Smashbros Melee is LEAGUES above any console FPS as an esport. It's a real shame that it's not bigger than it as at the moment. If it could make a comeback, justice will be restored to the world and all will be right again.
Too bad OG Smash Bros. is better than melee. That's what needs to become an esport, not some sub-par sequel . PIKACHU FOR LIFE!
Ew no. Melee introduced a million times more depth to the game. Then Brawl knocked it back into the stone age. Melee Smash Bros is best Smash Bros.
I would love some big old MLG tournaments, they just have that feel I can't describe...really looking forward to Anaheim as well as the AM competition, good to have mlg back
The polt and violet question is an awkward one. I cant think of a good justification for one way or the other, but I lean more away from it if the point is AM only competition.
On January 11 2014 01:18 Plansix wrote: I can support that if only for my own dark amusement. Watching the whining Terran prince get crushed by scarlet would be pretty funny.
On January 11 2014 01:18 Plansix wrote: I can support that if only for my own dark amusement. Watching the whining Terran prince get crushed by scarlet would be pretty funny.
Clearly she would only win because of BO wins because Avilo was forced to stream the games.
On January 11 2014 01:18 Plansix wrote: I can support that if only for my own dark amusement. Watching the whining Terran prince get crushed by scarlet would be pretty funny.
Why not by Minigun's Terran again?
Whatever provides the most amusement. Really incontrol would be the best. The best part would be the excuses that would come after. But those games would take forever knowing Avilo.
On January 11 2014 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: Confirmations so far 1) Scarlett 2) Huk 3) Minigun 4) Suppy 5) Vibe 6) Major 7) Puck 8) Incontrol 9) Nony 10) QXC
2 more invites to go then fan voting.
Really good list of probably the most well known NA players. Would be cool to see players like Kane there.
I know we've asked about Polt, but what about SeleCT? He's Korean by heritage but I'm pretty sure he is a US citizen.
Cool! A bit sad though that no European players are invited. We all know that Scarlett will roflstomp the NA competition. What about a MLG with American and European players only? That would be pretty funny I think, with players like Vortix and Naniwa.
On January 11 2014 03:42 Caladan wrote: Cool! A bit sad though that no European players are invited. We all know that Scarlett will roflstomp the NA competition. What about a MLG with American and European players only? That would be pretty funny I think, with players like Vortix and Naniwa.
On January 11 2014 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: Confirmations so far 1) Scarlett 2) Huk 3) Minigun 4) Suppy 5) Vibe 6) Major 7) Puck 8) Incontrol 9) Nony 10) QXC
2 more invites to go then fan voting.
sick line-up! but i think Scarlett is gonna take it ^.^
On January 11 2014 03:42 Caladan wrote: Cool! A bit sad though that no European players are invited. We all know that Scarlett will roflstomp the NA competition. What about a MLG with American and European players only? That would be pretty funny I think, with players like Vortix and Naniwa.
Scarlett is beatable.
Just ask hitman.
The question we should ask is, is Hitman beatable? I don't see anyone outside of maybe Soulkey who could take him right now. Some would argue that every pro player has a bunch of stupid losses to people they would normally beat, be it due to exhaustion, having a bad day, some bad luck or what have you, but we all know that's nonsense. If you lose to someone ever, you are objectively an inferior player to that person. Frozean is the true BW Bonjwa, he beat JD and Flash.
On January 11 2014 03:42 Caladan wrote: Cool! A bit sad though that no European players are invited. We all know that Scarlett will roflstomp the NA competition. What about a MLG with American and European players only? That would be pretty funny I think, with players like Vortix and Naniwa.
Scarlett is beatable.
Just ask hitman.
The question we should ask is, is Hitman beatable? I don't see anyone outside of maybe Soulkey who could take him right now. Some would argue that every pro player has a bunch of stupid losses to people they would normally beat, be it due to exhaustion, having a bad day, some bad luck or what have you, but we all know that's nonsense. If you lose to someone ever, you are objectively an inferior player to that person. Frozean is the true BW Bonjwa, he beat JD and Flash.
Hitman will probably beat Maru, MC, MMA and Bomber too, since he beat Scarlett who beat those guys. In fact they don't even need to play, we can just give Hitman the money right away and save some time. It's just ironclad logic, there are is no way to argue against my conclusions.
On January 11 2014 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: Confirmations so far 1) Scarlett 2) Huk 3) Minigun 4) Suppy 5) Vibe 6) Major 7) Puck 8) Incontrol 9) Nony 10) QXC
2 more invites to go then fan voting.
Ask State if he wants to play from KR, he deserves it and might just win the thing! Awesome invite list so far and happy to hear you are considering an open foro all open bracket at Anaheim .!
Sen is more American than apple pie, the statue of liberty(which is french) and #FREEDOM. I strongly suspect Nony is a Somalian pirate or maybe a Soviet sleeper agent, Sen should take his place.
On January 11 2014 00:43 MLG_Adam wrote: Confirmations so far 1) Scarlett 2) Huk 3) Minigun 4) Suppy 5) Vibe 6) Major 7) Puck 8) Incontrol 9) Nony 10) QXC
2 more invites to go then fan voting.
Ask State if he wants to play from KR, he deserves it and might just win the thing! Awesome invite list so far and happy to hear you are considering an open foro all open bracket at Anaheim .!
I second this. State is one of the few AM players who is actually serious about self-improvement, and he's definitely one of the top AM players out there. Got to have him
On January 09 2014 05:44 Tobblish wrote: I doubt MLG would do this if they didn't expect to make money out of it sadly.
Of course we expect to make money, we're a damn business not a charity. Why is this even in question? If eSports companies don't make money they don't stay open.
Tobblish's comment arguably one of the dumbest I've read on this forum in a long, long time.
On January 11 2014 04:46 Squat wrote: Sen is more American than apple pie, the statue of liberty(which is french) and #FREEDOM. I strongly suspect Nony is a Somalian pirate or maybe a Soviet sleeper agent, Sen should take his place.
Yeah! Get Sen in this thing. Scarlet and Huk are from Canada... Damn commies with their socialized health care. That's not very Merican!
I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
I personally like seeing more NA events. I don't have a lot of interest in them but the idea's good and I'll probably still watch.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
O_o what on earth is that supposed to mean?
Another person outside of the situation coming up with god knows what to spew in the forums. I wouldn't worry about it.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
O_o what on earth is that supposed to mean?
Another person outside of the situation coming up with god knows what to spew in the forums. I wouldn't worry about it.
okay that came out entirely wrong. wasn't trying to be speak down on anyone or anything. and I'll admit i don't really know what I'm talking about. sorry. I really liked the shoutcasting tourney TB did and thought it was great I just feel the players didn't take it seriously enough. that's really all I was trying to say. This once again is just my personal opinion and its no way intended to be seen as a fact or anything like that.
I agree, some players didn't take the tourney seriously at all. It will be rude for me to point out who but the qualifier was the only one that really gave out the competition feel out.
On January 11 2014 07:10 MLG_Adam wrote: Neeb and Catz are the last 2 invites.
Did State decline the invite? When talking about the top NA players, you simply cannot leave out this guy. I hope he gets in from the voting
Also, I hate to be the one to bring this up, but what penalties are there if a player forfeits or no-shows or what-not. Let's face it, I'm looking at the list of players thus far, and several of these players have had discipline issues in the past, and frankly I'm tired of them getting more opportunities unless there is a way to ensure that they don't repeat the unprofessional behavior or have penalties placed upon them if they do.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
O_o what on earth is that supposed to mean?
Another person outside of the situation coming up with god knows what to spew in the forums. I wouldn't worry about it.
okay that came out entirely wrong. wasn't trying to be speak down on anyone or anything. and I'll admit i don't really know what I'm talking about. sorry. I really liked the shoutcasting tourney TB did and thought it was great I just feel the players didn't take it seriously enough. that's really all I was trying to say. This once again is just my personal opinion and its no way intended to be seen as a fact or anything like that.
I agree with you that from skypelogs/events that transpired it didn't seem like certain players were taking it seriously.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
O_o what on earth is that supposed to mean?
Another person outside of the situation coming up with god knows what to spew in the forums. I wouldn't worry about it.
okay that came out entirely wrong. wasn't trying to be speak down on anyone or anything. and I'll admit i don't really know what I'm talking about. sorry. I really liked the shoutcasting tourney TB did and thought it was great I just feel the players didn't take it seriously enough. that's really all I was trying to say. This once again is just my personal opinion and its no way intended to be seen as a fact or anything like that.
I agree with you that from skypelogs/events that transpired it didn't seem like certain players were taking it seriously.
Well it would certainly be odd if 8 players who laddered hard to get into the tournament for $5000 didnt take it seriously yet everyone went HAM on a 16 player invite tournament with also a $5000 prizepool.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
O_o what on earth is that supposed to mean?
I suppose he's trying to say being crowned an MLG champion is more of an incentive to practice than being crowned a Shoutcraft champion.
On January 11 2014 11:30 Firestorm wrote: I like that MLG is back. I do not like how much people are hyping this tournament. The level of game play will be comparable to TB's Shoutcraft Winter (which was rather sloppy and no one is really talking about anymore).
I think this will be better because MLG's done this stuff before and know what their doing and the players are going to take it a lot more seriously. Total Biscuit's shoutcraft tourney was more just him trying to do it himself.
O_o what on earth is that supposed to mean?
I suppose he's trying to say being crowned an MLG champion is more of an incentive to practice than being crowned a Shoutcraft champion.
Judging by the IEM qualifiers, NA will underwhelm once more.
Haha, according to Adams twitter, they're planning to have the champions of both tournaments (MLG and Warer) play each other after both tournament, along with a caster vs caster 2v2.
On January 13 2014 14:44 RaZorwire wrote: Haha, according to Adams twitter, they're planning to have the champions of both tournaments (MLG and Warer) play each other after both tournament, along with a caster vs caster 2v2.
Well adapted, I have to say. :D
That might be more one sided than Taeja vs Thorzain.
tQState has come a long way, I remember I used to be able to consistently go toe-to-toe with him on ladder. Not even sure how he is anymore since I haven't even be able to get matched with him for the last year+, but that clearly means the skill gap has widened between us hehe.
EPT
Avenge retirement we have already 2 good news in 2014 TricKsteR's return and now MLG 
But I´m really glad they brought it back on the flip side! 
![[image loading]](http://reflectzyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mlg-league-memberships-e1308792765245.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ayDSSZT.png)
