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On January 09 2014 23:46 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 23:41 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:33 Crownlol wrote:
One thing I've never understood - why doesn't MLG just freaking sell alcohol at its events? Or allow alcohol vendors and take a percentage? It would seem to be a pretty large additional revenue stream, for an industry that is currently mainly supported by online ad revenue.
Additionally, please put more money into merchandising. Getting a liquor license for one of the venues they use would be a nightmare. They are not only responsible for selling the booze, but also making sure it isn't ending up in the hands of under aged kids. Many of the vendors are probably already licensed. I'm just not sure of the liquor laws for allowing a licensed alcohol vendor on your premises. For example, consider the many outdoor events that have alcohol vendor booths. These locations are likely unlicensed, while the vendor itself is licensed.
If it was profitable, I think MLG would have jumped on it a long time ago, the margins on liquor at these events are obscene. However, I'd hate to see the stream die because some drunk idiot spilled beer on electrical equipment haha.
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other events have had it, doesnt fit mlg style imo, and is probably a lot more complicated for them
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On January 10 2014 00:51 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 00:46 Derez wrote:On January 09 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 21:29 boxerfred wrote:On January 09 2014 14:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote:America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me. So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways?  Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it. And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else. Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead". __ I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again". Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam. tl;dr Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this. In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself. It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal. I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that. It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds. eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary. People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way. MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time. The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs.
To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
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On January 10 2014 01:00 Plansix wrote:
Or to put it another way, there is a huge difference between complaining to help them improve and bitching because you aren't getting exactly want you want and you don't like any of the answers. The people who are bitching that it's an NA focused event have plenty of other content to watch, so it's not unreasonable to say "take your negativity elsewhere, I want to watch an NA event."
You're entitle to your opinion and I'm entitled to tell you that it might suck.
This is probably the biggest confusion I see in regards to free expression, you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to protection from ridicule if said opinion is stupid.
MLG is doing a tournament, which is better than MLG not doing a tournament. That's really all there is to it. As a bonus, they are doing cool things like trying to help NA out and bringing back open brackets. Some will not like this. That's fine. Providing feedback on what you dislike will generally be better received than just going "fuck MLG".
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Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
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On January 10 2014 00:17 tadL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 17:14 Darkhoarse wrote:On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote:
Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ? So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing? Could you please read what I wrote and understand it correctly? Stereotypes are always a smile but please grow to a better human being. Always this "he he said something against America so I will fire back even if it is a fail...
What you wrote was retarded. "Is there no 'is this wrong' or 'does it sound even retarded too' thingy at MLG"
Nothing about what they wrote was wrong or sounds retarded. By stating that it is wrong or sounds retarded implies that you disagree with this event being put on in general. More importantly it implies that you believe this is a negative thing.
I don't care that you've written that you think it's bad, that's totally cool, others have too. But don't defend what you've said as if the poster you're replying to was incorrect in what he said. That's general negativity, he's telling you to explain why you think it's negative. I don't know what language they speak in Croatia and I'm not going to google it, but if English is not your first language do not attack others for not understanding what you said unless you can read through it and see no conceivable way it can be misconstrued. Oy.
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On January 10 2014 00:51 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 00:46 Derez wrote:On January 09 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 21:29 boxerfred wrote:On January 09 2014 14:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote:America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me. So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways? Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it. And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else. Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead". __ I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again". Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam. tl;dr Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this. In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself. It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal. I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that. It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds. eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary. People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way. MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time. The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you.
Why did you even quote me? I don't see how anything I posted can be considered as being spoiled, entitled or fleeting.
Or how the opinion 'this tournament does not strike me as very interesting TO ME, I wish they had the old MLG tournaments' can be considered stupid.
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The AX duo!! I love those guys! MLG ftw!!!!!
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United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote:
Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this.
The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season.
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Cool, it's nice to hear good news for SC2 scene. Will tune in if the games are broadcasted in european-friendly times/if VODs are free.  Anaheim sounds great with the open bracket, I hope there is no silly extended series rule anymore?
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United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:10 Comadevil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 00:51 Crownlol wrote:On January 10 2014 00:46 Derez wrote:On January 09 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 21:29 boxerfred wrote:On January 09 2014 14:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote:America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me. So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways? Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it. And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else. Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead". __ I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again". Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam. tl;dr Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this. In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself. It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal. I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that. It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds. eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary. People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way. MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time. The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you. Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs. To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV)
The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you.
At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
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United States23455 Posts
On January 10 2014 00:17 tadL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 17:14 Darkhoarse wrote:On January 09 2014 16:39 tadL wrote:
Only American Online Competition Oo ...
Dont they check what they want to post? Is there no "is this wrong" or "does it sound even retarded too" thingy at MLG ? So are you here to spew GENERAL relentless negativity? Or are you going to tell people why a tournament that is being formed will allow more North American players to compete is a bad thing? Could you please read what I wrote and understand it correctly? Stereotypes are always a smile but please grow to a better human being. Always this "he he said something against America so I will fire back even if it is a fail...
I really am trying to understand your post and this one as well. Could you explain it to me? Because it just seems like you're saying that this "is wrong" and "retarded" to have an "Only American Online Competition".
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United States23455 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:24 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote:
Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this. The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season.
Sorry to harp on it, but are you guys still discussing whether or not to allow EU/KR players at Anaheim?
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United States994 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:35 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 01:24 MLG_Adam wrote:On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote:
Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this. The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season. Sorry to harp on it, but are you guys still discussing whether or not to allow EU/KR players at Anaheim?
Still discussing. We won't have a decision for a few weeks.
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Well here's to hoping they have an event in Columbus again! I was so excited for Columbus last year and then crushed when they weren't having SC2. Would love to go to another live tourney.
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United States23455 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:36 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 01:35 Darkhoarse wrote:On January 10 2014 01:24 MLG_Adam wrote:On January 10 2014 01:18 EAGER-beaver wrote:
Basically an invite only tournament with a $5000 prize pool? MLG will be the last tournament to watch on my starcraft priority list. At the very least this is a boon to the local NA scene since I doubt many of the big korean names will bother with this. The $5,000 tournament is a 5 day online test from January 19-25, not the actual season. Sorry to harp on it, but are you guys still discussing whether or not to allow EU/KR players at Anaheim? Still discussing. We won't have a decision for a few weeks.
Ok cool. I'm really feeling that you guys are taking a lot of community feedback. Keep up the good work!
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On January 10 2014 01:33 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 01:10 Comadevil wrote:On January 10 2014 00:51 Crownlol wrote:On January 10 2014 00:46 Derez wrote:On January 09 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 21:29 boxerfred wrote:On January 09 2014 14:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote:America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me. So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways? Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it. And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else. Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead". __ I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again". Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam. tl;dr Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this. In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself. It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal. I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that. It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds. eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary. People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way. MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time. The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you. Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs. To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV) The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you. At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
It's very nice to hear you say this. The community can be very frustrating to communicate with at times, but overall, I think there's a benefit to speak out and tell your side of any story and not let random people online write it for you.
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I actually don't like Destiny as a caster. You wouldn't think this, but in all his previous casting gigs he was very reserved and kind of boring. Maybe he would do better as an analyst? Honestly, I think that Destiny&Catz&Totalbiscuit would be a good combo, but I think currently it's lacking.
On January 10 2014 01:33 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 01:10 Comadevil wrote:On January 10 2014 00:51 Crownlol wrote:On January 10 2014 00:46 Derez wrote:On January 09 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 21:29 boxerfred wrote:On January 09 2014 14:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote:America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me. So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways? Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it. And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else. Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead". __ I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again". Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam. tl;dr Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this. In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself. It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal. I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that. It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds. eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary. People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way. MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time. The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you. Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs. To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV) The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you. At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2.
You should really be careful treating the community as adults. We are not very smart and we like drama and convenient narratives. All that has to happen is for MLG to make one misstep and then all your transparency from the past will be used against you with select quotations thrown back in your face. It's better to take a strategic approach and use a manipulative PR style. Transparency often ends up hurting people's feelings (even if their feelings are stupid) and you can't afford this as a company, I would say. To this day there are people frantically upset at MLG because you didn't give the proper fluff PR response to dropping SC2.
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Thanks MLG_Adam for not only communicating with the community, but also for reading and implementing feedback from the fans.
Whilst a few small America-only tournaments are great for the scene, I think MLG still needs international events to keep up the reputation and hype surrounding the brand. No need for a 75k event, and paying tens of thousands to fly and house two dozen people from across the world - just enough to attract a decent amount of top level players, whilst allowing locals and their favourites opportunities.
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On January 10 2014 02:03 Grumbels wrote:I actually don't like Destiny as a caster. You wouldn't think this, but in all his previous casting gigs he was very reserved and kind of boring. Maybe he would do better as an analyst? Honestly, I think that Destiny&Catz&Totalbiscuit would be a good combo, but I think currently it's lacking. Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 01:33 MLG_Adam wrote:On January 10 2014 01:10 Comadevil wrote:On January 10 2014 00:51 Crownlol wrote:On January 10 2014 00:46 Derez wrote:On January 09 2014 23:56 Plansix wrote:On January 09 2014 23:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 21:29 boxerfred wrote:On January 09 2014 14:52 Wingblade wrote:On January 09 2014 13:59 boxerfred wrote:America only? Sorry, won't tune it. As a EU resident, I am kind of used to watch through the night to catch korean or american tournaments, npnp. I love the game. But after that whole "we drop sc2" thing, I'm kind of pissed about MLG. I loved Axslavs and especially Axeltoss's effort on trying to put community streams etc. up after SC2 was dropped, but they were dropped too or parted ways whyever. And now, there comes a test with destiny as a caster? seriously? sorry, just my opinion, but that's not worth watching. that's more like a reason for not watching for me. So, on a more positive site of things: It is great that MLG covers starcraft again. But I won't tune in as long as it's America only (and I guess as long as Destiny's casting). I guess I'm one of the few guys you wouldn't have counted in anyways? Seriously? You're not watching because it's America only. People like you are part of the reason the NA scene is nearly dead. Organizations won't hold tournaments with people like you "herp derp no Koreans not watching. Don't refer to yourself as a fan of Starcraft if you openly dislike a part of it. And this other crap about "well screw MLG" is obnoxious as hell. You're more interested in trying to kill more NA tournaments for what, because you think they "owe" you? The hell they do! In fact for every broadcast of one of their tournaments you watched for free on their website that other people paid for to sit in the venue, you owe them! You got a free broadcast, you have received your entertainment and your due by sitting at your computer or TV or whatever and watching their content for free. And if you paid for something from them, then you already got that too. You paid for whatever features that service came with, they don't owe you anything else. Please get over yourselves. You aren't "owed" anything because MLG made a business decision that you didn't have a part in and don't understand. Cannot wait for the content and I will be for sure tuning in when I can! Welcome back MLG Yes, I am not watching because it's America only. I do not cheer for any of the players, the timezone sucks. That is why I simply will not watch. Adam said that the tournament is for test purposes. Given the timezone and the players, I as a standard EU citizen will not tune in. It's not about "no koreans", it's more about "no players I cheer for/care for", so why should I make the effort in staying up all night? I don't think that because of "guys like me the american scene is dead". __ I am NOT interested in "killing" NA tournaments. For fuck's sake, do you watch every single tournament that is on in the EU or even in your holy NA scene? You're really starting to piss me off. Hell, MLG doesn't "owe me", I didn't say anything like that! And IN FACT, ever thought of a free stream with ads as a business model?! I owe MLG freaking NOTHING, and I can just repeat that I as a "customer" am pissed because of what happened and I will not tune in for a America only tournament! Now get your rage blown off somewhere else, especially since I wrote in my freaking last paragraph "it's great that MLG covers starcraft again". Edit: and ofc, let me repeat: I don't think that MLG counts many EU viewes in their estimations for a 5k USD Americas only tournament. Correct me, if wrong, Adam. tl;dr Learn to understand the difference between saying "This single tournament sucks" and "good thing that mlg picks up sc2 again". oh, and stop your attitude So here's an idea. If you have no interest in a tournament for whatever reason you can come up with, don't tell everyone "this tournament isn't worth my time I'm not watching." Because frankly the only people who care are people like me tired of seeing the rampant negativity all over the scene. The vast majority of people have already made up their mind, and there is probably a massively small percent of people who get agitated by this. In other words, no one cares. Keep your negativity to yourself. It's called the Bambi rule: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Yes, because people expressing their disappointment that the new MLG isn't like the old MLG is such a big deal. I have no ill feelings towards MLG treating SC2 as a business or whatever grudges people hold against them, I just wish we still had tournaments similar to the HotS beta tournament or the MLG's before that. They were some of the best tournaments we've ever had in SC2. That would interest me as a viewer. Nothing wrong with people posting that. It's not like the few US only tournaments that have been attempted have been successful either so I don't see why this one would be any different. What draws the most viewers is a mix of players, some korean, some EU, some US. US only or EU only just draws the hardcore fanbase of the players (and casters) because noone else cares that much. Just look at viewer numbers for the first day of dreamhack, shoutcraft numbers or early GSL rounds. eSports consumers are also the most spoiled, entitled, and fleeting fans of any sport I've ever seen. Destiny says one thing wrong, and people lead a crusade against him. Michael Vick murders dogs, and still has a multimillion-dollar salary. People fly to bad teams TRAINING CAMPS, just to watch and participate in some stupid, minor way. MLG takes a risk, enters a virgin market long ago, and you entitled assholes get all "BURN THE WITCH" when they ask for a measly $20 PPV fee. Guess what? The reason your favorite pros have to quit after a few years is because you won't just be a goddamn eSports fan for any measurable amount of time. The volatility and "gimme for free" attitude of this market is precisely why I haven't personally invested in it, and why many companies are hesitant. If you people drink any energy drink other than Red Bull, shame on you. Well about Destiny it is not only the one post he made IMO. He quits the game afterwards to earn his money with LoL which is legit in my eyes. He also would have played Hearthstone if he got the Beta Keys as early as Trump to establish himself as a Hearthstone Streamer as he stated in one of Chans Unfiltered series. This is also pretty much legit. But then he has to accept that people of the Community or at least i prefer other Casters over him who sticked more to the game through its ups and downs. To MLG: ESL and Dreamhack are also businesses, so in the end all have to be proiftable. But if i look at the tweets of MLG representatives and their PR, i have the feeling, that ESL and DH show much more passion and for MLG it is much more about business. And i think some other people have the impression too. Nevertheless i loved the MLG SC2 events the last years, but i also got the feeling as i stated above (and i paid the 20$ PPV) The last part of your post bothers me. It bothers me because it is not true, but moreso because people think that about us. It is a problem and one we have to work hard to dispel because it could not be farther from the truth. There was time very recently where we as a company operated like the NFL. Many times internally folks would say 'you don't see Roger Goodell posting on forums!'. Boy were we wrong (insert any other derogatory adjective). When you don't speak your mind, when you don't respond to negativity, when you just sit on your ass and watch others tell the story, it becomes your story, your words, and ultimately the perception people have about you. At the end of last year I lobbied to get back into community interaction on a deep level as that is what MLG was founded on. If you look at how I approached Dota2 you'll understand better. My interaction with the Dota2 community has been an eye opener internally and has truly changed how we'll operate moving forward. We can't assume we know what folks want without talking to them, listening to their feedback, and truly attempting to make changes based on that information. I can't ask you to forget the past, but I can say with confidence that in the good times and the bad you'll be hearing from us a lot as we work with Starcraft2. You should really be careful treating the community as adults. We are not very smart and we like drama and convenient narratives. All that has to happen is for MLG to make one misstep and then all your transparency from the past will be used against you with select quotations thrown back in your face. It's better to take a strategic approach and use a manipulative PR style. Transparency often ends up hurting people's feelings (even if their feelings are stupid) and you can't afford this as a company, I would say. To this day there are people frantically upset at MLG because you didn't give the proper fluff PR response to dropping SC2.
Thank you for understanding this. I get very, very frustrated at this community. There's so few posters on this site (outside of content creators) that, when I see them post, I think "I'd totally get a beer with this guy". Plansix, you're one of 'em - stay classy.
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