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lol these are really bad changes except for looking at mech. Blizzard trying to buff midgame zerg units which are already super cost efficient vs protoss gateway units is silly ^^. If you're a zerg you should just stephano max with speed burrow roach and never lose if you have good multitask.
But more importantly why the photon overcharge nerf is stupid. By nerfing the length of photon overcharge you're basically making it impossible to expand in pvp. In pvt its now basically impossible to open templar. In PvZ it actually doesn't matter. Stephano style roach max will be harder to hold but still doable of course.
What should have been nerfed(I play protoss so im only commenting on protoss matchups)
-oracle (it makes pvp a coinflip quite often and also is too strong in pvt)
-immortal(immortal all in is quite strong. Possibly too strong? Also, it doesnt effect any other matchups too much besides pvz)
-viper vs ht (Should be changed so its more like ghost vs ht. Microable by both sides and fun back and forth.)
Notice I didn't change anything dumb that doesn't break other matchups unlike the above changes.. zzz
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On January 03 2014 08:43 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:40 SiroKO wrote:
For Terrans, here are my propositions.
I think a slightly faster ghost with a +1 range for snipe would be enough to revolutionize TvP lategame.
Would force the Protoss to micro as hard as Terran, lose more HT... it will have a considerable snowball effect.
Considering TvZ, WM nerf should get reverted, or tanks should get a "real" buff (a 25% speed attack increase, not a 7%) in order to make mech or bio/(wm)/tank work again.
+1 snipe range would probably break lategame TvP
Implying lategame high eco TvP is not already broken?
I believe it would force the Protoss to use HT more carefully or put them in warp-prisms. We would see less stupid HT walking alone and landing feedback/perfect storms.
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On January 03 2014 08:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I think PvP will be affected by the overcharge nerf most. Negatively I might add. Us protoss know how to abuse something like that, there'll be the dirtiest overcharge bait into actual attack strategies.
And that will further make PvP more skill demanding, the better player will bait the overcharge and create a window for himself, the worse player will fall for the bait and die. This I would say is a good change.
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Wait, these notes lack a terrain Nerf, they can't be for real
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Austria24417 Posts
On January 03 2014 08:52 kiLen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I think PvP will be affected by the overcharge nerf most. Negatively I might add. Us protoss know how to abuse something like that, there'll be the dirtiest overcharge bait into actual attack strategies. And that will further make PvP more skill demanding, the better player will bait the overcharge and create a window for himself, the worse player will fall for the bait and die. This I would say is a good change.
I just think it makes it even more unforgiving for you to fall behind in the build order wars...
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On January 03 2014 08:49 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:47 mau5mat wrote:On January 03 2014 08:14 Aocowns wrote:On January 03 2014 08:07 fried_rice wrote:On January 03 2014 08:06 Aocowns wrote:
why the fuck do they have this autistic boner for mech Because it's stupid for half of the Terran tech tree to be useless? I get that and all, but honestly, do you even want mech to work? I mean, seeing avilo with a good winratio must be painful to even the most soulless terrans? most effective mech styles all basically involve possibly making every other game Goswser vs Lucifron, no? EDIT: okay no more passive aggressive pissed off shitting about, but mech is just a really unentertaining way to play, play against, and watch, and from my perspective I'd rather watch games from the broodlord infestor era TaeJa vs INnoVation. I have basically zero knowledge of the other match ups and I am talking as a player and spectator of ZvT
The primary reason the Tank needs a buff is due to TvP, try as I might I just cannot think of a reason why TvT and TvZ would be so negatively affected that it means we shouldn't at least test it.
Mech's viability in TvZ has very little to do with the strength of the Siege Tank. It has everything to do with how powerful the late game Sky-Terran army can be, buffing the Siege Tank doesn't change how powerful that unit comp becomes, it simply means that Mech can be played more aggressively in the match up and still be successful.
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All I want as a terran is a blink all in nerf :'(
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There's more toss in GM because of the strength of all-ins, not the strength of the core in macro games. Now there's going to be even more due to buffing all-ins in p vs p. I'd like to see all-ins get nerfed across the board, not see more players rejoicing over wins via playing like a caveman.
I wish the core had different attributes based on the current mu... when you make a change that no toss players probably care about, outside of a mirror mu, it's probably not the right change... also, I'd love to know in what situation does it not make sense to mass mutas in a macro game (z vs p). How about nerfing that.
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On January 03 2014 08:52 -HuShang- wrote:
lol these are really bad changes except for looking at mech. Blizzard trying to buff midgame zerg units which are already super cost efficient vs protoss gateway units is silly ^^. If you're a zerg you should just stephano max with speed burrow roach and never lose if you have good multitask.
But more importantly why the photon overcharge nerf is stupid. By nerfing the length of photon overcharge you're basically making it impossible to expand in pvp. In pvt its now basically impossible to open templar. In PvZ it actually doesn't matter. Stephano style roach max will be harder to hold but still doable of course.
What should have been nerfed(I play protoss so im only commenting on protoss matchups)
-oracle (it makes pvp a coinflip quite often and also is too strong in pvt)
-immortal(immortal all in is quite strong. Possibly too strong? Also, it doesnt effect any other matchups too much besides pvz)
-viper vs ht (Should be changed so its more like ghost vs ht. Microable by both sides and fun back and forth.)
Notice I didn't change anything dumb that doesn't break other matchups unlike the above changes.. zzz
I've been campaigning for an Immortal nerf for well over 3 years now.
Dustin Browder actually responded to one of my tweets a while back.
They aren't going to do it. For whatever reason the developers at Blizzard love the role the Immortal has. They aren't nerfing it, I've slowly come to accept that.
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On January 03 2014 07:42 iHirO wrote:buffing mech air
This has to be a joke right?
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Giving a 40s earlier timing in TvP might help. Meh.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
- Give a tank upgrade for the midgame that gives +'x' Damage to Shielded units.
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The story of sc2 balance for terrain has been about trying to make mech "work". It's interesting that they've had this much trouble getting it to fit in.
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dont think these changes are good and well thought...
Again blizz is taking way to small steps on the PTR server man damn david kim this is a fucking PTR just give your damn tank a +dmg vs shield and look how it does-.- Well anyway i dont see anything going to change with the msc nerf since it wont change the PvP outcome and same for the PvT.
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On January 03 2014 08:53 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:49 Aocowns wrote:On January 03 2014 08:47 mau5mat wrote:On January 03 2014 08:14 Aocowns wrote:On January 03 2014 08:07 fried_rice wrote:On January 03 2014 08:06 Aocowns wrote:
why the fuck do they have this autistic boner for mech Because it's stupid for half of the Terran tech tree to be useless? I get that and all, but honestly, do you even want mech to work? I mean, seeing avilo with a good winratio must be painful to even the most soulless terrans? most effective mech styles all basically involve possibly making every other game Goswser vs Lucifron, no? EDIT: okay no more passive aggressive pissed off shitting about, but mech is just a really unentertaining way to play, play against, and watch, and from my perspective I'd rather watch games from the broodlord infestor era TaeJa vs INnoVation. I have basically zero knowledge of the other match ups and I am talking as a player and spectator of ZvT The primary reason the Tank needs a buff is due to TvP, try as I might I just cannot think of a reason why TvT and TvZ would be so negatively affected that it means we shouldn't at least test it. Mech's viability in TvZ has very little to do with the strength of the Siege Tank. It has everything to do with how powerful the late game Sky-Terran army can be, buffing the Siege Tank doesn't change how powerful that unit comp becomes, it simply means that Mech can be played more aggressively in the match up and still be successful.
you cant see how TvT could be negatively affected? really?
mech is already a dominant TvT strat, any tank buffs would kill Bio in TvT
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Wasn't roach speed buffed like 1 month ago? Why not give it time to catch up? Let people experiment with it before judging if it's good or not. People are always reluctant to try new things in SC and tend to stick to what they know, but in time they will try it.
You must be shitting me with EMP buff...
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On January 03 2014 08:53 NerdFace wrote:
All I want as a terran is a blink all in nerf :'(
the Strength of the Blink All in in the current metagame has as much to do with the map pool as anything else.
If Blink continues to be a problem then changing the map pool to discourage it is a much cleaner fix than anything you can do through a balance patch.
Nerfing Photon Overcharge means that Protoss has to actually play a tiny bit safer since their defense can't be so easily handled with one press of a hotkey, that affects the all in dynamic just as much as a direct nerf does.
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Blizzard are practically begging people to use the burrowed roaches. It's kinda cute.
Good overcharge change.
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On January 03 2014 08:53 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:49 Aocowns wrote:On January 03 2014 08:47 mau5mat wrote:On January 03 2014 08:14 Aocowns wrote:On January 03 2014 08:07 fried_rice wrote:On January 03 2014 08:06 Aocowns wrote:
why the fuck do they have this autistic boner for mech Because it's stupid for half of the Terran tech tree to be useless? I get that and all, but honestly, do you even want mech to work? I mean, seeing avilo with a good winratio must be painful to even the most soulless terrans? most effective mech styles all basically involve possibly making every other game Goswser vs Lucifron, no? EDIT: okay no more passive aggressive pissed off shitting about, but mech is just a really unentertaining way to play, play against, and watch, and from my perspective I'd rather watch games from the broodlord infestor era TaeJa vs INnoVation. I have basically zero knowledge of the other match ups and I am talking as a player and spectator of ZvT The primary reason the Tank needs a buff is due to TvP, try as I might I just cannot think of a reason why TvT and TvZ would be so negatively affected that it means we shouldn't at least test it. Mech's viability in TvZ has very little to do with the strength of the Siege Tank. It has everything to do with how powerful the late game Sky-Terran army can be, buffing the Siege Tank doesn't change how powerful that unit comp becomes, it simply means that Mech can be played more aggressively in the match up and still be successful.
Most of my hatred for mech in TvZ is based on not really knowing how to play against it I do admit, so my opinion is probably very amateur, but making the siege tank stronger would buff both the aggressive style and the turtle style, so it would be like they have the possibility to do a strong attack or sit back and turtle, both of which require a very different response, so for a mid-master zerg unable to read the game and respond perfectly, it would be retardedly frustrating I'd imagine, especially when you already have a terribly negative attitude towards mech in general.
AND it also makes it easier to get to that almost unbeatable air composition.
not to mention the fact that killing terrans that don't want to die is already stupidly hard, and this is going to make laddering an even worse experience assuming you don't enjoy the super long games
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TLADT24920 Posts
Mech being more viable is good imo. Photon overcharge duration decrease was a good thing as well. Not sure about roach speed though.
On January 03 2014 07:44 Talionis wrote:
These turbo sharkroaches are going to be even faster?
haha good stuff XD
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EPT
