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On January 03 2014 05:34 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:
I don't get it.
First all of Quantic's employees claim that they are "unpaid volunteers" who are not really affiliated with Simon. (Obviously to dodge blame for Hyun's incident)
Now they claim that Simon owes them money?
Lmao it seems like ALL of Quantic's employees are scumbags.
all of quantic is a -nothing- of a team, they made this so clear on COUNTLESS different occasions
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 03 2014 06:26 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Would it matter even if he was suffering from cancer? You don't lie and mislead people for half a year and then run off with $40k. People die all the time, living in horrible circumstances, and they usually aren't as lucky to be a rich person living off their parent's inheritence.
It would be an explanation at least. It wouldn't get anyone their money back and it still wouldn't have been a nice move, but I'd (almost) understand his decision were it the case.
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On January 03 2014 03:00 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 02:10 iamho wrote:
Where I live, its a criminal offense not to fulfill wage obligations. If that's true in Canada, they should make a complaint and get the government to hunt down this clown. Given how badly organised it seems to be, it may be that there are no wage obligations. The contracts probably aren't worth the paper they are written on, although you would be able to go to court and argue that there was constructive obligation, but that would just mean more expense and time to get it sorted. Not saying that some of these people don't deserve to get paid, just that it probably won't be as easy as a normal employment dispute due to the fact the whole team seems to have been a bit of a mess. (Also, these two marketing guys who say they are owed $13k and also say the whole marketing thing was a disaster... what did they do to earn their $13k because they make it seem like it wasn't marketing...)
Yeah this also.
I work in communication/marketing/Innovation myself and i followed the quantic team quite a bit.
The marketing was a disaster, the only good thing the communication department ever did was the roccat sponsorship deal while the team was in dipshit.
That's sad i like those korean hope Qtc had.
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What about the other players like Try and Gamja? Does anyone know about them?
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On January 03 2014 05:03 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 04:53 Pr0wler wrote:On January 03 2014 04:28 Plansix wrote:On January 03 2014 03:49 Zealously wrote:On January 03 2014 03:44 Derez wrote:On January 03 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:On January 03 2014 03:04 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
So why is it that neither the CEO or board of directors ever seems to be held responsible for shit they do?
Why the hell can't they be held responsible for the company they are the heads of?
Are laws really so screwed up that if you can't directly charge the company, you can never hold the people responsible accountable for it? The problem here is that the "CEO" (I use the term loosely) stole money from both the company and the employees and then took off. Do you want the employees who also had their money stolen from them because their employer is a jackass? If someone "finds" Simon he might be persecuted, but it's impossible to take legal action against someone you can't actually find. And let's not forget that legal action costs money, which isn't exactly in abundance in the industry. Also, Hyun has earned close to 200k without salaries. Even if we take away the 23k, how on earth does he not have the money to pay for a lawyer in what should be a pretty straight forward case? Yea, it sucks for Hyun but I'm not feeling any pity for a fortunate individual, nor do I see the need for the community to help out here. No. Divide the number by three and you get closer to the actual number. As for legal action, Golden and Hyun have been put in touch with a lawyer specialising on international issues, but there is no guarantee that he'll ever see the money or that Simon is even capable of paying him back. People need to understand that law is not magic and can't make money appear from nowhere. And generally courts are not in the business of garnishing people's wages to force them to pay funds they owe. Also, in the America court system, if Simon had no money to give, he could just declare bankruptcy and resolve the debt dispute that way. Courts are not magic and generally it is not worth suing an individual to try and get your money back. Even if he declares bankruptcy, he still must pay what he owes to his creditors. I don't know how is it in Canada, but I'm pretty sure you can't just declare bankruptcy and go in the green. Either with his own money or by selling assets he will be forced to pay. Now I don't know what kind of company Quantic is (or is it company at all), but usually this happens, at least in EU... I think Plansix has some kind of legal education (might be a paralegal?), and if he were to explain the legal situation I'd feel inclined to believe what he's saying. I would appreciate some clarification on the subject though if that's possible. Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 04:55 jubil wrote:
What a shame that the company had such a grossly inexperienced, immature, and immoral CEO. He needs to turn himself in and atone for this mess. In just running away from the situation, I hope his soul is ill at ease with what he's done.
Does anyone actually believe that this will happen? I mean I'd be jumping from joy if it did, but "turning himself in" for stealing some money? I doubt he's feeling very burdened by this situation.
I am a paralegal and my firm works in debt collection among other things. Although I don't specialize in bankruptcy, I have to deal with it a lot. In general the courts do not award creditors money that does not exist, especially if it would take the debtor years upon years to pay it back. At 23K money judgment would prevent someone from taking out even the smallest loan(like a car loan) and the courts are not in the business of ruining one person so the other can get blood from a stone. Bankruptcy court is the places where debts are resolved and sometimes that ends with "of the 23K you were owed, you get 2K. Debt resolved."
Court isn't fair. People work for companies for 40 years and lose out of their pensions because the company goes under. If Quantic didn't pocket the money and run, then there is no money to get. If there is no money, then the court is just going to say "sorry, you are out of luck".
Second point: This all assumes that Quantic just ran out of money and went under. Of course if the owner took the money and ran, that's another story. All of that would might out in court, but there is a chance the owner just ran out of money and went under. If so, its really hard to seek back pay from a dead business.
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On January 03 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 03:04 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
So why is it that neither the CEO or board of directors ever seems to be held responsible for shit they do?
Why the hell can't they be held responsible for the company they are the heads of?
Are laws really so screwed up that if you can't directly charge the company, you can never hold the people responsible accountable for it? The problem here is that the "CEO" (I use the term loosely) stole money from both the company and the employees and then took off. Do you want the employees who also had their money stolen from them because their employer is a jackass? If someone "finds" Simon he might be persecuted, but it's impossible to take legal action against someone you can't actually find. And let's not forget that legal action costs money, which isn't exactly in abundance in the industry.
in new york you can take out a posting in a newspaper to serve someone with a summons.
I would imagine Canada probably has similar ways to persecute people you can't find. It is the accused job to show up to court.
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Does anyone know how much of the money owed to Hyun is salary and how much is price money?
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I think people need to understand that Simon did run off with $40k. The problem is that he overspent the team's budget by $40k by funding other operations like the LoL team at the expense of his staff's salaries. In other words, he's $40k in debt not $40k richer...
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On January 03 2014 08:41 Penev wrote:
Does anyone know how much of the money owed to Hyun is salary and how much is price money?
I think the numbers are in his message.
After my last scheduled events he went off the radar, except to occasionally leave a line saying that he would send the money. The money I should have received was 80,000 SEK from DreamHack winnings (about $12,500) and $26,400 (2,200 x 12) in salary, but I only received $2,200 x5, and after that $950 x5, leaving $10,650 I have not received. In total it's about $23,000 I have not received.
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Considering how unbalanced sports is, teams specially, i feel like tournaments should pay directly to the players if their contract allows them to get the price money.
Edit : business wise it's logical that the price money is paid to the team since thats who the players work.
It's just very unsafe business for the players, we have seen that sometimes the tournament holders can't pay the prize money, now the teams, theres not much security in this business.
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On January 03 2014 07:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 05:03 Zealously wrote:On January 03 2014 04:53 Pr0wler wrote:On January 03 2014 04:28 Plansix wrote:On January 03 2014 03:49 Zealously wrote:On January 03 2014 03:44 Derez wrote:On January 03 2014 03:20 Zealously wrote:On January 03 2014 03:04 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
So why is it that neither the CEO or board of directors ever seems to be held responsible for shit they do?
Why the hell can't they be held responsible for the company they are the heads of?
Are laws really so screwed up that if you can't directly charge the company, you can never hold the people responsible accountable for it? The problem here is that the "CEO" (I use the term loosely) stole money from both the company and the employees and then took off. Do you want the employees who also had their money stolen from them because their employer is a jackass? If someone "finds" Simon he might be persecuted, but it's impossible to take legal action against someone you can't actually find. And let's not forget that legal action costs money, which isn't exactly in abundance in the industry. Also, Hyun has earned close to 200k without salaries. Even if we take away the 23k, how on earth does he not have the money to pay for a lawyer in what should be a pretty straight forward case? Yea, it sucks for Hyun but I'm not feeling any pity for a fortunate individual, nor do I see the need for the community to help out here. No. Divide the number by three and you get closer to the actual number. As for legal action, Golden and Hyun have been put in touch with a lawyer specialising on international issues, but there is no guarantee that he'll ever see the money or that Simon is even capable of paying him back. People need to understand that law is not magic and can't make money appear from nowhere. And generally courts are not in the business of garnishing people's wages to force them to pay funds they owe. Also, in the America court system, if Simon had no money to give, he could just declare bankruptcy and resolve the debt dispute that way. Courts are not magic and generally it is not worth suing an individual to try and get your money back. Even if he declares bankruptcy, he still must pay what he owes to his creditors. I don't know how is it in Canada, but I'm pretty sure you can't just declare bankruptcy and go in the green. Either with his own money or by selling assets he will be forced to pay. Now I don't know what kind of company Quantic is (or is it company at all), but usually this happens, at least in EU... I think Plansix has some kind of legal education (might be a paralegal?), and if he were to explain the legal situation I'd feel inclined to believe what he's saying. I would appreciate some clarification on the subject though if that's possible. On January 03 2014 04:55 jubil wrote:
What a shame that the company had such a grossly inexperienced, immature, and immoral CEO. He needs to turn himself in and atone for this mess. In just running away from the situation, I hope his soul is ill at ease with what he's done.
Does anyone actually believe that this will happen? I mean I'd be jumping from joy if it did, but "turning himself in" for stealing some money? I doubt he's feeling very burdened by this situation. I am a paralegal and my firm works in debt collection among other things. Although I don't specialize in bankruptcy, I have to deal with it a lot. In general the courts do not award creditors money that does not exist, especially if it would take the debtor years upon years to pay it back. At 23K money judgment would prevent someone from taking out even the smallest loan(like a car loan) and the courts are not in the business of ruining one person so the other can get blood from a stone. Bankruptcy court is the places where debts are resolved and sometimes that ends with "of the 23K you were owed, you get 2K. Debt resolved." Court isn't fair. People work for companies for 40 years and lose out of their pensions because the company goes under. If Quantic didn't pocket the money and run, then there is no money to get. If there is no money, then the court is just going to say "sorry, you are out of luck". Second point: This all assumes that Quantic just ran out of money and went under. Of course if the owner took the money and ran, that's another story. All of that would might out in court, but there is a chance the owner just ran out of money and went under. If so, its really hard to seek back pay from a dead business.
This is the reason why one should never have ones pension with the company one is working with.
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Gus Ledesma all over again. This is why you don't let children run companies.
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Simon Boudreault is an adult, no matter how you look at it.
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On January 04 2014 00:16 Bagration wrote:
Gus Ledesma all over again. This is why you don't let children run companies.
The problem is that there is no stopping this a priori, not until there is some sort of governing body or vetting collective that a new team must seek out in order to be trusted by the community. Until then, whenever someone promises money and travel, good luck stopping players from attempting to capitalize on their skill via teams of nebulous reliability.
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On January 03 2014 22:30 chobopeon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 08:41 Penev wrote:
Does anyone know how much of the money owed to Hyun is salary and how much is price money? I think the numbers are in his message. Show nested quote +After my last scheduled events he went off the radar, except to occasionally leave a line saying that he would send the money. The money I should have received was 80,000 SEK from DreamHack winnings (about $12,500) and $26,400 (2,200 x 12) in salary, but I only received $2,200 x5, and after that $950 x5, leaving $10,650 I have not received. In total it's about $23,000 I have not received.
Oops, you're right. My bad and thanks.
12.5k is a lot of money. It's to be recommended that players and tournament organizers handle these payments directly comes to show..
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We should donate to the whole Quantic Gaming instead of Hyun alone. hmmm.
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On January 04 2014 01:22 lystier wrote:
We should donate to the whole Quantic Gaming instead of Hyun alone. hmmm.
Absolutely not.
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I suggest everyone throughout the thread uses his full name (Simon Boudreault), so that if anyone makes a background check on him this thread shows up at the top.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On January 03 2014 06:44 Tamagoshi wrote:
What about the other players like Try and Gamja? Does anyone know about them?
It's most likely no one else but hyun had a salary and none of them had any tournament success enough to require quantic to serve as a middle man to handle it.
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Some fat dude just bought a house next to mine with 40k down payment
Anyone need a pitchfork?
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EPT
