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Situation Report: The SC2 Multiplayer Ladder - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
192 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
NintendoStar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States217 Posts
January 13 2014 20:32 GMT
#181
Yeah I was masters season 2, dropped to diamond season 3, dropped to plat season 5, now dropped to gold in season 7. Each season I played 1-2 games to get placed. That's pretty ridiculous.
"oh well then u can just get off this site then if ya'll goin to play it like dat fool i write like dis cos itz gangstar" -Linko8697
Pandarama
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria13 Posts
January 13 2014 22:09 GMT
#182
On January 14 2014 05:32 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah I was masters season 2, dropped to diamond season 3, dropped to plat season 5, now dropped to gold in season 7. Each season I played 1-2 games to get placed. That's pretty ridiculous.


Same Here i started somewhere in platinum when the game launched, then i played up into masters where i stayed for 3 seasons, then i basically stopped playing 1v1 and since hots i just got downranked every season.


the reason for it is simple, ladders are placed in percentages, and since a lot of people stop playing, (at least 1v1 ladder) there are not as many people to rank in masters (wich is 2% of all server players) so its obvious that a gold player hast to play against a diamond or plat player because there are not as many people left to play with....
the only hope i have is that blizzard trys to make the game simply more fun to play, easier to access by new players and a good final expansion
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12279 Posts
January 13 2014 22:15 GMT
#183
On January 14 2014 07:09 Pandarama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2014 05:32 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah I was masters season 2, dropped to diamond season 3, dropped to plat season 5, now dropped to gold in season 7. Each season I played 1-2 games to get placed. That's pretty ridiculous.


Same Here i started somewhere in platinum when the game launched, then i played up into masters where i stayed for 3 seasons, then i basically stopped playing 1v1 and since hots i just got downranked every season.


the reason for it is simple, ladders are placed in percentages, and since a lot of people stop playing, (at least 1v1 ladder) there are not as many people to rank in masters (wich is 2% of all server players) so its obvious that a gold player hast to play against a diamond or plat player because there are not as many people left to play with....
the only hope i have is that blizzard trys to make the game simply more fun to play, easier to access by new players and a good final expansion


That's not correct, and it's been explained why several times already.
Moderator
Yrr
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany805 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-15 14:01:09
January 15 2014 13:59 GMT
#184
Finally hit bronze (Yay!) after playing a few games every season. My hots winrate is 72% with 57 games played. Last time I lost more than 1 game per Season was in platinum.

Season 2 2013 - diamond
Season 3 2013 - diamond
Season 4 2013 - platinum
Season 5 2013 - gold
Season 6 2013 - silver
Season 1 2014 - bronze
MMR decay is bad, m'kay? | Personal Hero: TerranHwaiting
NintendoStar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States217 Posts
January 21 2014 01:19 GMT
#185
Yeah the big problem here is not the fact that mmr deflates over time. I understand why it would and it makes sense, and the fact that it has a limit to how much it can deflate is a very good thing that would limit it from going overboard. But the problem is obvious in what happened in my situation. I didn't just stop playing and come back months later. I stopped playing a lot, but I would play 1-2 games a season. Therefore every time I played a game, the system would see me as an active player again. Then after that game it would see me as going inactive and take off 300 mmr. This would happen every single season, and in the end that resulted in me going from master to gold. Over time. This needs to be changed.
"oh well then u can just get off this site then if ya'll goin to play it like dat fool i write like dis cos itz gangstar" -Linko8697
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3292 Posts
January 21 2014 01:56 GMT
#186
On January 21 2014 10:19 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah the big problem here is not the fact that mmr deflates over time. I understand why it would and it makes sense, and the fact that it has a limit to how much it can deflate is a very good thing that would limit it from going overboard. But the problem is obvious in what happened in my situation. I didn't just stop playing and come back months later. I stopped playing a lot, but I would play 1-2 games a season. Therefore every time I played a game, the system would see me as an active player again. Then after that game it would see me as going inactive and take off 300 mmr. This would happen every single season, and in the end that resulted in me going from master to gold. Over time. This needs to be changed.




or you could, like just win 10 games in a row and get promoted again. I mean you stoopped playing for a while, and 1-2 games is not really playing. What rank would you like to see yourself? In my eyes, your situation seems pretty fair.
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
January 21 2014 02:06 GMT
#187
On January 21 2014 10:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2014 10:19 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah the big problem here is not the fact that mmr deflates over time. I understand why it would and it makes sense, and the fact that it has a limit to how much it can deflate is a very good thing that would limit it from going overboard. But the problem is obvious in what happened in my situation. I didn't just stop playing and come back months later. I stopped playing a lot, but I would play 1-2 games a season. Therefore every time I played a game, the system would see me as an active player again. Then after that game it would see me as going inactive and take off 300 mmr. This would happen every single season, and in the end that resulted in me going from master to gold. Over time. This needs to be changed.




or you could, like just win 10 games in a row and get promoted again. I mean you stoopped playing for a while, and 1-2 games is not really playing. What rank would you like to see yourself? In my eyes, your situation seems pretty fair.

Not everyone plays enough to "like just win 10 games" as a small fraction of their games. The problem is very real for people that don't play frequently. I think it is pretty common to play a few (for example 5) games every now and then (say every 2-3 weeks) when you happen to have time. Your skill will be pretty constant (as you never were that good anyway, so not playing for month wont change much), but almost all the games you play ever will be bashing noobs as your MMR keeps decaying.

And that is 1on1. Then team games with separate MMR and decay timers (or have they fixed that now?) for every group of people is where the real problem is.
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-21 02:50:32
January 21 2014 02:34 GMT
#188
On January 21 2014 11:06 Cascade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 21 2014 10:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
On January 21 2014 10:19 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah the big problem here is not the fact that mmr deflates over time. I understand why it would and it makes sense, and the fact that it has a limit to how much it can deflate is a very good thing that would limit it from going overboard. But the problem is obvious in what happened in my situation. I didn't just stop playing and come back months later. I stopped playing a lot, but I would play 1-2 games a season. Therefore every time I played a game, the system would see me as an active player again. Then after that game it would see me as going inactive and take off 300 mmr. This would happen every single season, and in the end that resulted in me going from master to gold. Over time. This needs to be changed.




or you could, like just win 10 games in a row and get promoted again. I mean you stoopped playing for a while, and 1-2 games is not really playing. What rank would you like to see yourself? In my eyes, your situation seems pretty fair.

Not everyone plays enough to "like just win 10 games" as a small fraction of their games.

Also note that 10 straight wins is not enough.To overcome max decay you need roughly 20 wins more than losses. It is rare that someone wins 20 in a row. Also if winrate after max decay would be 60%, it would require roughly 100 matches (60W - 40L). And this was only to overcome 1 max decay...
On January 21 2014 11:06 Cascade wrote:
The problem is very real for people that don't play frequently. I think it is pretty common to play a few (for example 5) games every now and then (say every 2-3 weeks) when you happen to have time. Your skill will be pretty constant (as you never were that good anyway, so not playing for month wont change much), but almost all the games you play ever will be bashing noobs as your MMR keeps decaying.

And that is 1on1. Then team games with separate MMR and decay timers (or have they fixed that now?) for every group of people is where the real problem is.

And yes. If you play 5 games in a row every 3rd week & win all of them, then your MMR is decreasing. 5 wins against similar MMR opponents is not enough to overcome the decay from 3 weeks inactivity (roughly 10 straight wins would do it).
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
January 21 2014 02:42 GMT
#189
On January 14 2014 07:09 Pandarama wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2014 05:32 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah I was masters season 2, dropped to diamond season 3, dropped to plat season 5, now dropped to gold in season 7. Each season I played 1-2 games to get placed. That's pretty ridiculous.


Same Here i started somewhere in platinum when the game launched, then i played up into masters where i stayed for 3 seasons, then i basically stopped playing 1v1 and since hots i just got downranked every season.


the reason for it is simple, ladders are placed in percentages, and since a lot of people stop playing, (at least 1v1 ladder) there are not as many people to rank in masters (wich is 2% of all server players) so its obvious that a gold player hast to play against a diamond or plat player because there are not as mhttp://www.teamliquid.net/any people left to play with....
the only hope i have is that blizzard trys to make the game simply more fun to play, easier to access by new players and a good final expansion

Sounds like you stopped playing a lot?Then it should take you no time at all to get back to Diamond at least. Unless you are really rusty.

Iv'e never encountered the MMR decay problem. I didn't play much so i got moved from Dia to Plat then worked my way back up with fairly balanced matches.

I'm hoping this patch moves me from High Diamond to masters lol :D Probably wont yet though.
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
January 21 2014 04:17 GMT
#190
On January 21 2014 11:42 Za7oX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2014 07:09 Pandarama wrote:
On January 14 2014 05:32 NintendoStar wrote:
Yeah I was masters season 2, dropped to diamond season 3, dropped to plat season 5, now dropped to gold in season 7. Each season I played 1-2 games to get placed. That's pretty ridiculous.


Same Here i started somewhere in platinum when the game launched, then i played up into masters where i stayed for 3 seasons, then i basically stopped playing 1v1 and since hots i just got downranked every season.


the reason for it is simple, ladders are placed in percentages, and since a lot of people stop playing, (at least 1v1 ladder) there are not as many people to rank in masters (wich is 2% of all server players) so its obvious that a gold player hast to play against a diamond or plat player because there are not as mhttp://www.teamliquid.net/any people left to play with....
the only hope i have is that blizzard trys to make the game simply more fun to play, easier to access by new players and a good final expansion

Sounds like you stopped playing a lot?Then it should take you no time at all to get back to Diamond at least. Unless you are really rusty.

Iv'e never encountered the MMR decay problem. I didn't play much so i got moved from Dia to Plat then worked my way back up with fairly balanced matches.

I'm hoping this patch moves me from High Diamond to masters lol :D Probably wont yet though.


Sounds as if you weren't affected much, so it's unlikely. Best of luck, though.

I was beginning to think there were just way less people playing than about a half a year ago. Got decayed from dia-plat to silver, and then to bronze. Over 30 games in and still playing random-skill opponents from silver to plat.
twitch.tv/duttroach
ArTiFaKs
Profile Joined September 2013
United States1229 Posts
January 21 2014 20:13 GMT
#191
I honestly don't see a problem with the MMR. I'm fairly active and I'm top gold, and all my matches are against people I feel I have a chance to beat, or if I lose I feel I made mistakes that lost me the game and not that I was playing against an overmatched opponent. Even when I was in Silver re-learning the game I would play people that had reached Diamond or Masters previously, or so it said on their profile, but who knows how much of that was from someone leveling their account? Or who knows how much they've actually played or where their skill set actually is currently? There might have been 1 or 2 games where I felt my opponent was just way better than me, but even then I had made many mistakes that put me at a big disadvantage, so I think a lot of this MMR stuff is just complaining and over-exaggeration. If you only play 1-2 games a season, you shouldn't be ranked into Masters league because that is taking a spot from someone who is playing everyday and someone who is active. If everyone who played 1-2 games a season were placed into Masters based on those 2 matches, if you were actually an active player in Masters you would never find an even match.

And if you are in Gold league actively playing every day, and are on a current win streak of say, 7 games, it's a good test to play someone who has placed into Diamond before, or even Masters for that matter, and test your skill level against better competition. So what if you lose one game? Watch the replay and learn from mistakes you made, because if you fix some of those mistakes you will definitely be able to beat players of that skill level soon enough. I think MMR is fine, but one thing that could change is the in-season demotions not being allowed, and maybe something that helps indicate improvement over-time. I really like the implementation of the "stars" on the post-game review page that indicates you did better than your average in certain areas, and all the graphs and different post-game options is a very good tool. All in all, there are just minor tweaks that could be done, but overall I think the system is fair.
There are things known, and things unknown, and in-between are the doors.
RaZorwire
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden718 Posts
January 21 2014 20:30 GMT
#192
On January 22 2014 05:13 ArTiFaKs wrote:
I honestly don't see a problem with the MMR. I'm fairly active and I'm top gold, and all my matches are against people I feel I have a chance to beat, or if I lose I feel I made mistakes that lost me the game and not that I was playing against an overmatched opponent. Even when I was in Silver re-learning the game I would play people that had reached Diamond or Masters previously, or so it said on their profile, but who knows how much of that was from someone leveling their account? Or who knows how much they've actually played or where their skill set actually is currently? There might have been 1 or 2 games where I felt my opponent was just way better than me, but even then I had made many mistakes that put me at a big disadvantage, so I think a lot of this MMR stuff is just complaining and over-exaggeration. If you only play 1-2 games a season, you shouldn't be ranked into Masters league because that is taking a spot from someone who is playing everyday and someone who is active. If everyone who played 1-2 games a season were placed into Masters based on those 2 matches, if you were actually an active player in Masters you would never find an even match.

And if you are in Gold league actively playing every day, and are on a current win streak of say, 7 games, it's a good test to play someone who has placed into Diamond before, or even Masters for that matter, and test your skill level against better competition. So what if you lose one game? Watch the replay and learn from mistakes you made, because if you fix some of those mistakes you will definitely be able to beat players of that skill level soon enough. I think MMR is fine, but one thing that could change is the in-season demotions not being allowed, and maybe something that helps indicate improvement over-time. I really like the implementation of the "stars" on the post-game review page that indicates you did better than your average in certain areas, and all the graphs and different post-game options is a very good tool. All in all, there are just minor tweaks that could be done, but overall I think the system is fair.


I don't think the issue most people are having is being matched unfairly against better or worse players (even if it does happen), but the fact that your ladder rank doesn't display your skill the same way it did in Wings of Liberty. The player distribution has been skewed significantly towards lower leagues for the past months, to the point where Bronze league contains more than 40 % of the players (compared to the 8 % Blizzard were targeting). This is a problem because it means that a lot of players will be demoted despite playing actively and becoming better. As an example, I was platinum in WoL, got to Diamond in the first few months of HotS, and I have since become demoted to Silver despite being active and improving a lot.
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
January 22 2014 08:38 GMT
#193
took me something like 120 games to get back to my league from last season (I was active except for the two weeks off for holidays)

the fact that I played over 120 games in the last two weeks should say something about how active I usually am...

I like the idea of inactivity decay... but it really shouldn't be as bad as it is! (unless it's more an issue of the league bounds).
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