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The leasing term between Team8 (JinAir Greenwings) and EG ends in November 30. According to the rules, Jaedong needs to go back to JinAir Greenwings. But KeSPA said they respect Jaedong's decision of not returning to JinAir Greenwings. KeSPA has negotiated many solutions and the final decision is that Jaedong will no longer have contract with JinAir Greenwings.
KeSPA official said: "the negotiation started back in August. During this process, we fully respect Jaedong's decision, which is not to go back to JinAir. Where he will go eventually is completely up to for him to decide."
The contract with JinAir Greenwings is ended. Now Jaedong can go to whatever team he wants. This includes staying in EG or going to other teams.
Source: http://www.playsc.com/forum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=379757&extra=page=1
Korean source: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/view.php?ud=2013120314111555570
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though
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On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though
sarcasm? I thought we've known this for months now.
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Canada16217 Posts
JD fits well with EG, and he's had a fantastic year. I don't see him going to another team.
On December 03 2013 15:41 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though sarcasm? I thought we've known this for months now.
hasn't it been more "speculation/rumors" though and nothing ever confirmed?
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Not too surprising. Let's see if EG manage to keep him. But we always talk about them having lots of money, and also about them acquiring already proven successful players. Well, Jaedong will want a crapton of money, that's for sure, but he's also proven himself this year to the very very top level of the world, so seems like EG wouldn't normally let him go away. Moreover, he fits well with the team.
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On December 03 2013 15:41 NovemberstOrm wrote:JD fits well with EG, and he's had a fantastic year. I don't see him going to another team. Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 15:41 Dodgin wrote:On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though sarcasm? I thought we've known this for months now. hasn't it been more "speculation/rumors" though and nothing ever confirmed?
EG's manager said Jaedong doesn't have to go back to jin air or something.
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On December 03 2013 15:41 NovemberstOrm wrote:JD fits well with EG, and he's had a fantastic year. I don't see him going to another team. Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 15:41 Dodgin wrote:On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though sarcasm? I thought we've known this for months now. hasn't it been more "speculation/rumors" though and nothing ever confirmed?
I'm pretty sure he was happy with staying on board. I think it would have been more of a surprise if he decided to go back when in reality he has no reason to.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
That's... Not a surprise.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 03 2013 15:42 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 15:41 NovemberstOrm wrote:JD fits well with EG, and he's had a fantastic year. I don't see him going to another team. On December 03 2013 15:41 Dodgin wrote:On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though sarcasm? I thought we've known this for months now. hasn't it been more "speculation/rumors" though and nothing ever confirmed? EG's manager said Jaedong doesn't have to go back to jin air or something.
Pretty sure the lease was until the end of his JinAir contract, when he would then renegotiate a new one with whoever he wants. I'm sure everyone thought at the start that he'd eventually go back. It's just a big deal for Jaedong that he's officially and probably permanently leaving Kespa
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I think he enjoys traveling and seeing the fans too much to give it all up than to sit in the practice house all day with little exposure except the proleague outings
I bet Jaedong is Alex Garfield's proudest acquisition, I'm sure he'll do anything to hold onto him.
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With all of his interviews it just seems like he's enjoying life and the perks from EG. He obviously keeps in shape for games so it seems like the best place for him.
Hope he continues his success~
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Saw that too. EG fits him well, and he's the no.1 player on EG. Hope he stays with EG.
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Makes sense. Good luck to JD as he plays in more tournaments around the world!
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That's great news although not very surprising. I can't imagine JD going back to mostly Proleague or GSL while vanishing from foreign tournaments. It's almost unthinkable.
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even if someone else wanted to buy him, who would have the cash to compete with EG? Maybe Acer?
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As an EG fan, I'm glad to hear this  I don't see why he wouldn't stay with EG...
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I hope he stays on EG so that he may have the support necessary to fly all over to foreign tournaments should he want to continue doing so.
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Given his performance over the period of time he's spent with EG.
It makes sense for him to stick with them.
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EG suits him well and he is enjoying himself, also i get to see his stream :D
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I wonder if there is still any way for him to play in Proleague. I really miss seeing him compete in the Korean scene. Maybe KeSPA can work out some sort of mercenary deal between KeSPA and non-KeSPA teams, but I doubt it.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37015 Posts
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out.
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United States33327 Posts
There's actually been a cute dichotomy in terminology/phrasing that dates back to the beginning of this entire JD-EG business, with KeSPA calling it a "loan."
If I recall correctly, the option to go back to a KeSPA team or stay on EG was ENTIRELY up to Jaedong.
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China6328 Posts
Really can't imagine him leaving EG, he is probably pretty happy with his results and salary at EG. Plus EG would never want him to leave in the first place, names wise they can't afford losing another big one after Stephano.
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Hope he stays on EG! I think he's a good fit there. Although honestly as long as he is on a team that can give him the support to send him to lots of foreign tournaments I'll be happy.
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Huh, not surprised but it's a bit weird knowing that he won't be playing in proleague this season
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As much as i love proleague, of course i want to see Jaedong back and competing especially in his latest form. But he's accomplished a lot in his career already and it's great to see him have this freedom to do what he likes. And naturally since his form has only improved since being on EG, i have no complaints with him no longer being in a kespa team house environment.
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I didn't even remember this line in the contract haha. Glad for Jaedong that he has that freedom.
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Jaedong and EG is a perfect match. He gets all the support and freedom he needs, while he delivers an incredible amount off positive exposure. Never thought he´d go back.
EDIT: Now got get sOs!
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Why would he go back to Jinair anyway?. They can't even afford to pay Jaedong's salary.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Not surprising at all lol. Jaedong loves being in EG. Read that he was enjoying all the other players on EG and he also gets travels and meet fans and such. SCII isn't like BW where it was mostly localized in Korea so I think for most players and an increasing number of KR players (Jangbi was one of them before he retired), getting on a foreign team and getting to travel to different countries, explore the culture and play infront of giant crowds of cheering fans is a dream come true so why give that up unless you're forced to?
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On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out.
Liquid'Jaedong
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On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong
This would be awesome.
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Not surprised but extremely happy! Even tho I don't really like EG that much I hope he stays there. Perfect team for him.
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On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome.
i prefer KT.Jaedong
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KT.JD sounds crazy, but I like it.
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and all of a sudden SKTelecom_Dong
I just want to see him in SPL 
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On December 03 2013 17:31 Arceus wrote:and all of a sudden SKTelecom_Dong I just want to see him in SPL
IM.Jaedong
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On December 03 2013 17:34 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 17:31 Arceus wrote:and all of a sudden SKTelecom_Dong I just want to see him in SPL IM.Jaedong
JadeongPrime.
Bring it!
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On December 03 2013 17:31 Arceus wrote:and all of a sudden SKTelecom_Dong I just want to see him in SPL
I rather not see him performing in front of an empty audience in SPL
it was painful and he deserve so much more
=D
kespa is losing alot of its superstars though O_O
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EG would be insane to just let him go, and JD will likely not find a team who can pay him as much or fly him to as many tournaments as EG. It just seems stupid to break it off from either part.
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JD seems to be happy with EG, why should he leave? The SC2 scene is international and to compete, you need a team that sends you all around the world. EG does that and Jaedong is fairly succesful. Why change that?
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Well, he only won about 15k directly from overseas stuff, out of 113k total, bit you could argue that without being in WCS AM instead of WCS Kr he wouldn't have won as much from WCS, so he's probably done well for the year. The main money element is salary and whether he will manage much in WCS Kr if he drops from WCS AM. WCS changing does significantly impact someone like Jaedong and his team choices because he may want to be back in WCS Kr/GSL, and he didn't make much money outside WCS.
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On December 03 2013 15:54 Sub40APM wrote:
even if someone else wanted to buy him, who would have the cash to compete with EG? Maybe Acer?
I can only think Acer and ASUS ROG.
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On December 03 2013 18:14 Pandemona wrote:Be suicidal in business terms to let Jaedong go if they were EG, hell they should give him both Idra and Stephano's old contract wages into one and then more for the dong 
IdrA`s and Stephano`s salary is already spent on Alliance. 
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Good decision. Hope he stays on EG
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As I was pleasantly surprised at Jaedong being able to deliver such great results on EG (I can't be the only one having doubts when he joined), I wouldn't mind seeing him staying on EG.
Still, would be cool to see him in Proleague again, but I guess attending all the major foreign tournaments is compensation enough.
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I guess Kespa will finally stop claiming to have just "loaned" him out. ;o
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Damn, I would have loved to see him in proleague again.
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Incontrol lubs JD too much to let him go to any other team.
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With Jaedong's success in Sc2 right now and the amount of salary he is getting at EG, he will most likely be staying on EG
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On December 03 2013 17:27 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome. i prefer KT.Jaedong
KT actually considered acquiring jd and they wanted him real bad
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The Dong is a good replacement for Stephano really (don't get all loyalist-mad - he's a top zerg, who replaced a top zerg - neither have been the best in the world, dont split hairs)
I hope he stays at EG - its good to see him at all these events and experiencing things most KeSPA players wont/cant.
I wasn't aware of this though, I guess time flies when youre chewing the EG money
Liquid don't need him though, they already have a guy that actually wins tournaments (oh shit!) - I joke I joke... but seriously, TAEJAAAAAAAAAAA
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I much rather see JD in many foreign tournaments than in SPL only.
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I misread the title as "will return to" haha!
Now that I wipe those tears away and read it properly, this is great news! :D
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Hate EG for killing TSL and Team 8 but if JD likes it so be it. But no JD in SPL means that the popularity of SPL will be so small in Korea which is another big strike to the dying scene...
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China6328 Posts
On December 03 2013 19:20 liberate71 wrote:
The Dong is a good replacement for Stephano really (don't get all loyalist-mad - he's a top zerg, who replaced a top zerg - neither have been the best in the world, dont split hairs)
I hope he stays at EG - its good to see him at all these events and experiencing things most KeSPA players wont/cant.
I wasn't aware of this though, I guess time flies when youre chewing the EG money
Liquid don't need him though, they already have a guy that actually wins tournaments (oh shit!) - I joke I joke... but seriously, TAEJAAAAAAAAAAA
Stephano is the best *foreigner*, JD is *best in the world*, that's an upgrade.
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Well that was pretty obvious. He will also have a vacation this month and travel. Good for him, he works hard and still enjoys himself. I hope he wins Asus to finish the year.
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On December 03 2013 19:19 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 17:27 goody153 wrote:On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome. i prefer KT.Jaedong KT actually considered acquiring jd and they wanted him real bad
really ? do you know the link of the news before or something ? .. it would be awesome to see JD and flash on the same team .. i would go bananas to see them working together
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On December 03 2013 19:24 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 19:20 liberate71 wrote:
The Dong is a good replacement for Stephano really (don't get all loyalist-mad - he's a top zerg, who replaced a top zerg - neither have been the best in the world, dont split hairs)
I hope he stays at EG - its good to see him at all these events and experiencing things most KeSPA players wont/cant.
I wasn't aware of this though, I guess time flies when youre chewing the EG money
Liquid don't need him though, they already have a guy that actually wins tournaments (oh shit!) - I joke I joke... but seriously, TAEJAAAAAAAAAAA Stephano is the best *foreigner*, JD is *best in the world*, that's an upgrade.
if teams were to pick between JD and Stephano. It is highly unlikely that they will pick Stephano. JD is pure dedication and talent no team is stupid enough to pick Stephano over him.
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On December 03 2013 19:41 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 19:19 mongmong wrote:On December 03 2013 17:27 goody153 wrote:On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome. i prefer KT.Jaedong KT actually considered acquiring jd and they wanted him real bad really ? do you know the link of the news before or something ? .. it would be awesome to see JD and flash on the same team .. i would go bananas to see them working together
There was an agreement that JD can not join SKT and KT, dunno how it is now.
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Of course not. He's an Evil Genius now.
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Would like to see JD go to a korean team. I think he has to if he wants to become n1.
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Time for Jaedong to re-negotiate his contract with EG. After the sick skill increase and all the high finishes this year he is EGs trump card.
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On December 03 2013 15:59 TyrantPotato wrote:
Given his performance over the period of time he's spent with EG.
It makes sense for him to stick with them.
Yeah but it makes you wonder how well he could have done if he had spent all this time at a kespa team house, though I haven't got a clue where he has been practising.
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On December 03 2013 20:01 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 15:59 TyrantPotato wrote:
Given his performance over the period of time he's spent with EG.
It makes sense for him to stick with them. Yeah but it makes you wonder how well he could have done if he had spent all this time at a kespa team house, though I haven't got a clue where he has been practising.
Last I heard him talk about it, he said that he liked the environment. That it wouldn't matter where he practices, since he has such good practice discipline after his BW days.
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=( KeSPA weakened yet again...
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On December 03 2013 19:55 DiMano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 19:41 goody153 wrote:On December 03 2013 19:19 mongmong wrote:On December 03 2013 17:27 goody153 wrote:On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome. i prefer KT.Jaedong KT actually considered acquiring jd and they wanted him real bad really ? do you know the link of the news before or something ? .. it would be awesome to see JD and flash on the same team .. i would go bananas to see them working together There was an agreement that JD can not join SKT and KT, dunno how it is now.
Wait i'm confused why cant he join ? If flash and jaedong would be in the same during BW days i dont even think that SKT would even match them at all.
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We'll take him! He'll be the greatest T1 Zerg of all time!
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51427 Posts
On December 03 2013 19:55 DiMano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 19:41 goody153 wrote:On December 03 2013 19:19 mongmong wrote:On December 03 2013 17:27 goody153 wrote:On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome. i prefer KT.Jaedong KT actually considered acquiring jd and they wanted him real bad really ? do you know the link of the news before or something ? .. it would be awesome to see JD and flash on the same team .. i would go bananas to see them working together There was an agreement that JD can not join SKT and KT, dunno how it is now.
that was only during his free agency period a few years ago, and it was a gentleman's agreement between the kespa teams as to not effectively kill the competition of proleague.
i think it was more directed to skt though as they had best, bisu and fantasy performing at their peak. kt from memory had flash, luxury and forgg.
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I hope he stays with EG. They will send him to every premier tournament and there he has the most chances of making his big breakthrough, which will hopefully happen one day.
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Jaedong belongs to EG now. I'm sure he likes it there too.
Good news.
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No Jaedong in Proleague makes me a little sad but Jaedong in foreign tournaments makes me very happy
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not really a surprise though.the sc2 scene in korea is very inferior in terms of money compared to the foreign scene.the next year in order to make any money you got to get first place at the gsl.plus if you do not do well in the gsl you do not get to go to the global finals.add the fact that korean teams do not send you to as many international tournamnets.moreover jaedong has never actually achieved anything in korea in sc2.most of his wins are in the proleague which is like 2 games per week.he literally got destroyed in each individual korean tournament he participated in.in the foreign scene he can beat a couple of foreigners and other bad koreans,get some money and eg sends him to all international tournaments....oh i forgot,no osl next year.
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On December 03 2013 20:58 perfidiusrex wrote:
not really a surprise though.the sc2 scene in korea is very inferior in terms of money compared to the foreign scene.the next year in order to make any money you got to get first place at the gsl.plus if you do not do well in the gsl you do not get to go to the global finals.add the fact that korean teams do not send you to as many international tournamnets.moreover jaedong has never actually achieved anything in korea in sc2.most of his wins are in the proleague which is like 2 games per week.he literally got destroyed in each individual korean tournament he participated in.in the foreign scene he can beat a couple of foreigners and other bad koreans,get some money and eg sends him to all international tournaments....oh i forgot,no osl next year.
you must be a hell of a jaedong fan ^^
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I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, production I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians.
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Don't know maybe, I can dream, but would be cool if he joined StarTale.
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On December 03 2013 21:20 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 20:58 perfidiusrex wrote:
not really a surprise though.the sc2 scene in korea is very inferior in terms of money compared to the foreign scene.the next year in order to make any money you got to get first place at the gsl.plus if you do not do well in the gsl you do not get to go to the global finals.add the fact that korean teams do not send you to as many international tournamnets.moreover jaedong has never actually achieved anything in korea in sc2.most of his wins are in the proleague which is like 2 games per week.he literally got destroyed in each individual korean tournament he participated in.in the foreign scene he can beat a couple of foreigners and other bad koreans,get some money and eg sends him to all international tournaments....oh i forgot,no osl next year. you must be a hell of a jaedong fan ^^
Apparently not a fan of the enter or space key though.
Competing in Korea exclusively makes zero sense at this point if the players has a choice in the matter. PL is cool, but it's a pale shadow of what it was in BW.
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On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians.
are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting.
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United States23455 Posts
No surprises here. EG seems like a good fit for him.
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JDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Obligatory EG dirty money joke.
Also yay!
Also, 'Murcuh
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I thought this was known as a certainty for months now
Either way, great news!
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On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, production I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians.
Oh, I'm sorry that they are unable to appease to your time schedule or the fact in your opinion a lot of them are faceless Koreans. Just goes to show you how meaningless some opinions truly are. Some people shesh.
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On December 03 2013 22:49 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, production I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. Oh, I'm sorry that they are unable to appease to your time schedule or the fact in your opinion a lot of them are faceless Koreans. Just goes to show you how meaningless some opinions truly are. Some people shesh.
Why is he not allowed to dislike proleague? lol Not everyone has to love every single tournament and player out there
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On December 03 2013 22:51 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 22:49 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, production I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. Oh, I'm sorry that they are unable to appease to your time schedule or the fact in your opinion a lot of them are faceless Koreans. Just goes to show you how meaningless some opinions truly are. Some people shesh. Why is he not allowed to dislike proleague? lol Not everyone has to love every single tournament and player out there
Did you even read his post? Does every tournament have to appease to everyone with regards to what time it starts at? I'm sorry but that isn't a valid excuse to shit a brick on something. They've always went on during those times, so that isn't a valid complaint. If you cannot stay up to watch it then that isn't their problem it's your's. So sorry that you live on the other side of the world. Doesn't sound like he gives a flying shit about what happens there anyway. He made that obvious. If you were to ask many people who actually follow the Korean scene unlike him I assure you they wouldn't call a lot of these guys faceless. All this guy is doing is blowing off hot steam. His criticism is invalid.
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time for LeeSsang KT JaeDong pls!
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On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting.
Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream)
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Good,he's someone who travels a lot kespa isn't made for him anymore.
Even if some teams like CJ are opening a bit its still too small.
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On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream)
what was so bad about it?beside proleague being played in some pcbang it seemed like a decent sc2 tournament.
@shidox
kespa isnt made for sc2 recently.
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i dont think anyone other than EG could even afford him
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There is no such things as getting enough of Jaedong.
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On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream)
In terms of production, yeah it wasn't the best and I guess I can be a little lenient considering it was their first stab on the English side. I had all sorts of notes to give them by the end, but there were some good things that OGN and KeSPA were starting to do. I for one would love it if they brought back the rotating booths, theme song music for players, and do winner interviews during the playback to get inside thoughts from the players.
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On December 03 2013 23:18 [F_]aths wrote:
There is no such things as getting enough of Jaedong.
One can never have enough Dong, it is a tantric sensation.
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On December 03 2013 23:18 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream) what was so bad about it?beside proleague being played in some pcbang it seemed like a decent sc2 tournament. @shidox kespa isnt made for sc2 recently.
Most people just like to shit on SNM and Whiplash. Yeah, they were very green but it's not like GOM didn't make the same moves with bringing new talent in. Some people don't learn or pay enough attention to what is happening elsewhere.
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United States97276 Posts
I guess we can just be happy that something went as expected. woo!
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On December 03 2013 23:22 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:18 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream) what was so bad about it?beside proleague being played in some pcbang it seemed like a decent sc2 tournament. @shidox kespa isnt made for sc2 recently. Most people just like to shit on SNM and Whiplash. Yeah, they were very green but it's not like GOM didn't make the same moves with bringing new talent in. Some people don't learn or pay enough attention to what is happening elsewhere.
i find people who watch sc2 for the casters a bit weird.
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On December 03 2013 23:24 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:22 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 23:18 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream) what was so bad about it?beside proleague being played in some pcbang it seemed like a decent sc2 tournament. @shidox kespa isnt made for sc2 recently. Most people just like to shit on SNM and Whiplash. Yeah, they were very green but it's not like GOM didn't make the same moves with bringing new talent in. Some people don't learn or pay enough attention to what is happening elsewhere. i find people who watch sc2 for the casters a bit weird.
As do I. They could always press the mute button and hopefully they know a thing or two about the game. Look, when I'm watching with my friends we don't listen to the casters at all. We're normally too busy talking, so it just becomes background noise.
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Makes sense.
I still feel it's stupid there is this separation going on with many players competing in all foreign tournaments but not in proleague (taeja, jaedong, mc, hyun to name a few). The players competing in foreign tournaments get way more money while arguably they are not even better or a bit worse than the korea only players. In that sense I can't blame the players at all for choosing a foreign team.
I guess the styles of play needed are also different, the foreign tournaments are almost all 2 or 3 day affairs with tons of games per day while possibly being jetlagged, it's probably quite similar to laddering for these players as there is little to no individual preparation. Korea with GSL and proleague is all sniping your opponent, preparing extensively and benefitting from good coaches. Taeja in particular seems to excel in this 'foreign' format while doing not as good in the preparation format.
I had some hopes a EGTL team would again compete in proleague, if anything startale and EGTL are the two teams really missing out and looking at their rosters either one of them could be called a top team based on their players alone.
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Hope EGJaedong can create a new legacy in SC2.
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Makes sense, the opportunity gap between EG and Jinair is just too big. When's the last time we've seen Jinair send a player out to a foreign tournament?
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I have been waiting for this day to see what Jaedong does from here. I see him staying in EG.
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He seems to be thriving with EG. I wonder how he escaped the curse.
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On December 03 2013 23:59 Salient wrote:
He seems to be thriving with EG. I wonder how he escaped the curse.
He invented his own one instead.
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Didn't know he was on loan lol. EG and Jaedong wouldn't want to part ways, he is by far the most sucessful EG player right now, and he is one of the most consistent players in the world and EG gives him the chance to go to so many events.
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On December 04 2013 00:01 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:59 Salient wrote:
He seems to be thriving with EG. I wonder how he escaped the curse. He invented his own one instead.
lol Players like Stephano and Jaedong are a different pedigree altogether.
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On December 04 2013 00:01 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:59 Salient wrote:
He seems to be thriving with EG. I wonder how he escaped the curse. He invented his own one instead.
hehehehehehe
OT: kinda expected, but nice to know that no shenanigans will come out of this anytime soon
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On December 04 2013 00:06 Nightsz wrote:
LiquidDong!!
honestly i would not be surprised if we had liquidflash or acerflash instead.
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Jaedong has been great for EG, they're getting a lot of great fanfare and an awesome player to boot.
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idk i could see him going to a high end Kespa team like KT or CJ, someone who could pay the salary hes looking for. But then again the restrictions with going to forgin tournys....hmmmmmmmmm.
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On December 04 2013 00:25 .SCATesteR wrote:
idk i could see him going to a high end Kespa team like KT or CJ, someone who could pay the salary hes looking for. But then again the restrictions with going to forgin tournys....hmmmmmmmmm.
KT JD would be the bets thing ever (now in sc2) but Jaedong will stay with EG, he has no reason not to (except MAYBE proleague)
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Nice to have it confirmed
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On December 04 2013 00:01 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:59 Salient wrote:
He seems to be thriving with EG. I wonder how he escaped the curse. He invented his own one instead.
hahaha
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Liquid should pick him up >_<
He is doing great on EG, though so, more than likely, he will stay there.
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On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting.
Please differentiate between my personal opinion and an objective statement, you're mistaken by words as objective. I did write a lot "I do not enjoy", so it should be clear that it's my opinion! I'm not saying it was "bad production" like "nasl sound guy" or something, I am just saying that I do not enjoy it.
You would pick OSL over GSL anytime, that's okay, and I'd do it the other way around. I do prefer GSTL instead of ProLeague, sorry. Should I leave the scene now or what?
Also, some other things you're saying might be right for you, but not for everyone. I do not enjoy a faceless korean's display of skill vs. another faceless korean.
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sorry if my response sounded a bit sash. .i understand it is your personal oppinion.nevertheless the koreans in the gstl seem to be just the same personality wise as those in the proleague.
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On December 04 2013 00:38 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 00:01 Squat wrote:On December 03 2013 23:59 Salient wrote:
He seems to be thriving with EG. I wonder how he escaped the curse. He invented his own one instead. hahaha
Mhm quite quite clever indeed.
Quite sad how Jaedong has had one of the most insane year yet has won nothing yet ^^
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On December 04 2013 01:03 perfidiusrex wrote:sorry if my response sounded a bit sash. .i understand it is your personal oppinion.nevertheless the koreans in the gstl seem to be just the same personality wise as those in the proleague.
True, but I guess you can't force someone's taste to be corresponding to yours. I bet GOMTV likes my taste though :D
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in my fantasy world, EG and Liquid merge so Taeja and Jaedong are on the same team.
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There are 70.000 reasons to go back to korea.
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On December 03 2013 17:10 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 17:07 TAMinator wrote:On December 03 2013 16:12 Seeker wrote:
Hmm... It's going to be weird seeing him on some other team than EG now that everyone has gotten used to it. But then again, any team would be lucky to have JD so I wouldn't be surprised if he got some super sick offer and joined a different team. Let's see how this plays out. Liquid'Jaedong This would be awesome.
Definitely as it would give Liquid the Korean hit squad of all three races :D
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boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person.
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I'd rather get second in every tournament I attend than come in first for one and then be irrelevant from then on.
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On December 03 2013 23:24 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:22 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 23:18 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream) what was so bad about it?beside proleague being played in some pcbang it seemed like a decent sc2 tournament. @shidox kespa isnt made for sc2 recently. Most people just like to shit on SNM and Whiplash. Yeah, they were very green but it's not like GOM didn't make the same moves with bringing new talent in. Some people don't learn or pay enough attention to what is happening elsewhere. i find people who watch sc2 for the casters a bit weird.
I find it sad has fuck.
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On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person.
His points are invalid? Him saying he doesn't personally like the casters is invalid? Him saying the time is not ideal for him is invalid? You are claiming this and then telling HIM to get over HIMSELF, while he stated from the beginning (and in a reply since then) that it was his opinion and that he wasn't claiming that everyone should think that way?
He is not Korean. Telling him "too bad" because he doesn't understand Korean is stupid. You just made multiple personal attacks on someone based on them stating they like GSL more than OSL and GSTL more than Proleague. Which of those things is really more reflective of someone as a person?
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On December 04 2013 01:42 Dreamsmasher2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 23:24 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 23:22 StarStruck wrote:On December 03 2013 23:18 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 23:12 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On December 03 2013 21:48 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 03 2013 21:44 boxerfred wrote:
I'm actually happy that jaedong is not going to compete in proleague any soon. proleague, as skillwise good as it is, has casters I do not enjoy, produciton I do not enjoy, time schedule I do not enjoy and lots of (for me) faceless koreans I do not enjoy. sorry, broodwarians. are you serious?proleague and osl had the most entertaining value out of all sc2 competitions.they had high production value(the last osls was nicely done),the kespa koreans are entertaining and are educated on public relationships.the osl format with bo1 and bo3 is the most simmilar thing esports comes to real sports.i would pick the osl over the gsl anytime.and koreans arent faceless when they compete against people of same calibre. seeing a faceless korean win against an underprepared foreigner is boring but seeing koreans with simmilar training environments going against each other is actually exciting. Sorry but production for proleague was HORRIBLE. (english stream) what was so bad about it?beside proleague being played in some pcbang it seemed like a decent sc2 tournament. @shidox kespa isnt made for sc2 recently. Most people just like to shit on SNM and Whiplash. Yeah, they were very green but it's not like GOM didn't make the same moves with bringing new talent in. Some people don't learn or pay enough attention to what is happening elsewhere. i find people who watch sc2 for the casters a bit weird. I find it sad has fuck.
I don't know I feel like I care about casters way more now than I used to. I used to not care in Brood War and would listen to Korean casters or casters I didn't particularly like all of the time, didn't really bother me in the slightest. Nowadays I feel like compared to DotA, League, CS:GO, etc. that the SC2 casters are as a whole pretty damn good. It's like I've been conditioned to high quality casting when watching StarCraft. So it's not so much I watch for the casters, but it definitely affects the experience and lowers the quality of the show as a whole.
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On December 04 2013 01:56 Venomsflame wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. His points are invalid? Him saying he doesn't personally like the casters is invalid? Him saying the time is not ideal for him is invalid? You are claiming this and then telling HIM to get over HIMSELF, while he stated from the beginning (and in a reply since then) that it was his opinion and that he wasn't claiming that everyone should think that way? He is not Korean. Telling him "too bad" because he doesn't understand Korean is stupid. You just made multiple personal attacks on someone based on them stating they like GSL more than OSL and GSTL more than Proleague. Which of those things is really more reflective of someone as a person?
I said he was entitled to his opinions but showed exactly how little weight it carries. There are two points that I deconstructed: the idea of faceless Koreans and the timing of the schedule. I said he doesn't have to like the casters lol that's not what I was arguing I even put a sentence in my original post saying that was fine. You're looking at the whole when you should be looking at the parts. Don't group everything together. I addressed a number of things.
Let me phrase it another way to sum things up: just because you willingly choose to ignore a scene, which has generated a ridiculous amount of Starcraft content and don't understand the language doesn't make the players within that scene faceless. This is ignorance and self-entitlement (when it comes down to the timing of the schedule even though the guy stated he watches the GSTL when the OSL and PL go on roughly at the same time) at the highest level.
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On December 04 2013 02:01 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 01:56 Venomsflame wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. His points are invalid? Him saying he doesn't personally like the casters is invalid? Him saying the time is not ideal for him is invalid? You are claiming this and then telling HIM to get over HIMSELF, while he stated from the beginning (and in a reply since then) that it was his opinion and that he wasn't claiming that everyone should think that way? He is not Korean. Telling him "too bad" because he doesn't understand Korean is stupid. You just made multiple personal attacks on someone based on them stating they like GSL more than OSL and GSTL more than Proleague. Which of those things is really more reflective of someone as a person? I said he was entitled to his opinions but showed exactly how little weight it carries. There are two points that I deconstructed: the idea of faceless Koreans and the timing of the schedule. I said he doesn't have to like the casters lol that's not what I was arguing I even put a sentence in my original post saying that was fine. You're looking at the whole when you should be looking at the parts. Don't group everything together. I addressed a number of things. Let me phrase it another way to sum things up: just because you willingly choose to ignore a scene, which has generated a ridiculous amount of Starcraft content and don't understand the language doesn't make the players within that scene faceless. This is ignorance and self-entitlement (when it comes down to the timing of the schedule even though the guy stated he watches the GSTL when the OSL and PL go on roughly at the same time) at the highest level.
I can't believe that you really try to push this. He said the koreans participating in Proleague are faceless FOR HIM, now think about it for a second why that could be and then you will see how pointless your argument is.
The time schedule is maybe bad for him cause he enjoys GSTL and GSL more, cause they overlap you know?
I can't understand why you would argue about it, its just his personal preference ...
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Stays with EG or Acer Jaedong
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On December 03 2013 15:41 NovemberstOrm wrote:JD fits well with EG, and he's had a fantastic year. I don't see him going to another team. Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 15:41 Dodgin wrote:On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though sarcasm? I thought we've known this for months now. hasn't it been more "speculation/rumors" though and nothing ever confirmed?
So what? Just because something was officially announced doesn't mean people didn't know it wasn't true.
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Northern Ireland24958 Posts
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy.
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On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person.
Your opinion is useless as well as your points are invalid.
What makes your opinion better than anyone elses?
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On December 04 2013 02:01 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 01:56 Venomsflame wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. His points are invalid? Him saying he doesn't personally like the casters is invalid? Him saying the time is not ideal for him is invalid? You are claiming this and then telling HIM to get over HIMSELF, while he stated from the beginning (and in a reply since then) that it was his opinion and that he wasn't claiming that everyone should think that way? He is not Korean. Telling him "too bad" because he doesn't understand Korean is stupid. You just made multiple personal attacks on someone based on them stating they like GSL more than OSL and GSTL more than Proleague. Which of those things is really more reflective of someone as a person? I said he was entitled to his opinions but showed exactly how little weight it carries. There are two points that I deconstructed: the idea of faceless Koreans and the timing of the schedule. I said he doesn't have to like the casters lol that's not what I was arguing I even put a sentence in my original post saying that was fine. You're looking at the whole when you should be looking at the parts. Don't group everything together. I addressed a number of things. Let me phrase it another way to sum things up: just because you willingly choose to ignore a scene, which has generated a ridiculous amount of Starcraft content and don't understand the language doesn't make the players within that scene faceless. This is ignorance and self-entitlement (when it comes down to the timing of the schedule even though the guy stated he watches the GSTL when the OSL and PL go on roughly at the same time) at the highest level.
Wow...are you for real?
He doesn't like Proleague because it doesn't provide what he wants from his Starcraft 2 watching. He has his own reasons for doing so and so he is glad a player he likes isn't in it because it means he will see more of said player elsewhere.
Esports is an entertainment product. The whole point of the damn thing is to get people watching it. If people don't like said product turning around and saying "well SCREW YOU for not speaking the language and not finding it convenient for you!" is utterly absurd. It SHOULD be accessible and enjoyable and inclusive and convenient for people you're aiming the product at because that's how you get a damn audience. And in the case of SC2 the market is international, which is apparently something which has come as a revelation to SPL over the past year or so and they've been coming to terms with (the hiring of english casters, etc).
Let me give you a hypothetical example. Someone who doesn't speak English goes "Game of Thrones is on at a difficult time for me to watch and I don't understand the language so none of it makes sense and I find that boring and all the characters dull because I don't know anything about them as a result; so I don't think its a very good show". Then someone pounces on said person about how they're being self-entitled because they don't speak the language and that they're only finding it boring because of that reason and how great it all and how their opinion means nothing because they're ignorant. All mixed in with various other offensive insults and abuse.
Sound fair? Because it isn't.
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That doesn't make them faceless Koreans and just because he doesn't pay attention to what's happening over there is ignorance. This isn't refutable. If you read his first post there was no valid criticism in it and I have no idea why anyone would even bother defending it. What he said is no different than a person coming into a LR thread and stating, "Omg not another faceless Korean. Won't watch." and what do we do to those type of people?
As far as I'm concerned you are allowed to invalidate opinions when there is very little substance to them. That's all I did. You guys throw around the word faceless waaaaay too much and I just showed you how it doesn't really work in this case.
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On December 04 2013 02:33 StarStruck wrote:
That doesn't make them faceless Koreans and just because he doesn't pay attention to what's happening over there is ignorance. This isn't refutable. If you read his first post there was no valid criticism in it and I have no idea why anyone would even try bother defending it.
As far as I'm concerned you are allowed to invalidate opinions when there is very little substance to them. That's all I did.
He explicitely said that he wasn't criticising PL but merely stating his personal preference. He just likes GSL more and thats his good right. And people are defending him, because you behaved like a douchebag and unnecessarily got personal.
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Quantic Jaedong gogogogogo!
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On December 04 2013 02:28 -Celestial- wrote:
boxerfred,
Let me give you a hypothetical example. Someone who doesn't speak English goes "Game of Thrones is on at a difficult time for me to watch and I don't understand the language so none of it makes sense and I find that boring and all the characters dull because I don't know anything about them as a result; so I don't think its a very good show". Then someone pounces on said person about how they're being self-entitled because they don't speak the language and that they're only finding it boring because of that reason and how great it all and how their opinion means nothing because they're ignorant. All mixed in with various other offensive insults and abuse.
That is actually a great example, because no one would seriously make the point that Game of Thrones is a bad show because it's in english. It's perfectly fine to say "I don't like GoT because I don't understand the language". It's wrong to say "It's not a very good show because I don't speak the language." The level of your English has no influence on the quality of the show.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:35 Skynx wrote:
Acer.Jaedong?
Acer can't possibly have that deep of pockets.
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On December 04 2013 02:43 Ventris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:33 StarStruck wrote:
That doesn't make them faceless Koreans and just because he doesn't pay attention to what's happening over there is ignorance. This isn't refutable. If you read his first post there was no valid criticism in it and I have no idea why anyone would even try bother defending it.
As far as I'm concerned you are allowed to invalidate opinions when there is very little substance to them. That's all I did. He explicitely said that he wasn't criticising PL but merely stating his personal preference. He just likes GSL more and thats his good right. And people are defending him, because you behaved like a douchebag and unnecessarily got personal.
d-bag? That's what I call getting personal. The only thing I said about him was he was ignorant and noted his self-entitlement. I'm sorry if I don't resort to name calling, but I call it at as I see it and I use factual information to back up my claims instead of just saying, "I don't like the time it comes on. I watch GSTL because I like their production more." Nothing wrong with the last sentence, but don't tell me you don't like the time of PL and the OSL when it happens around the same time as the GSTL. That invalidates your first point about the timing and that negates the idea of VODs as well. Then we come to the idea of faceless Koreans again when in reality it's just flat out ignorance. I showed you how they cater towards the Korean audience and have SNM do some translation. You are entitled not to like the OSL/PL English production, but just because there is that language barrier doesn't make them faceless. Going to the guy's Game of Thrones example in a different language. That doesn't make the characters faceless. Heck, they even have characters who speak in entirely different tongues. I think we get to the meat of what they're all about by other things. I've been with several women who's family's spoke different languages and guess what? I picked up a lot of what they said and I wouldn't call them faceless at all. At the end of the day, KeSPA and OGN produce a ridiculous amount of SC content. You are allowed to not like the production, but you might want to take a second before you call someone faceless because truth be told, a lot of these players have a lot of content. KeSPA has stepped it up a notch when it comes to content with regards to the players.
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I'd die of happiness if we saw Liquid'Jaedong. Beyond unlikely though
Probably stay with EG, and it's probably the right move. He's broken the EG curse and improved no end since he joined them.
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On December 03 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:
Whoa big news!
He'll probably stay on EG though
i dont follow jd and or eg anymore but jd always seemed so detached from the team, yes he has the logo and that but i would of though a more regimented practivce and of course native players would be a better improvement pool for him . . but saying that ive no idea how he spends his practice time and how he disciplines himself
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On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy.
I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall.
Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run.
He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision.
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Now EG should try to buy Flash. Let's show him the world.
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United States11390 Posts
On December 04 2013 02:59 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision.
He only won 3 starleagues in BW.
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On December 04 2013 02:45 blackone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:28 -Celestial- wrote:
boxerfred,
Let me give you a hypothetical example. Someone who doesn't speak English goes "Game of Thrones is on at a difficult time for me to watch and I don't understand the language so none of it makes sense and I find that boring and all the characters dull because I don't know anything about them as a result; so I don't think its a very good show". Then someone pounces on said person about how they're being self-entitled because they don't speak the language and that they're only finding it boring because of that reason and how great it all and how their opinion means nothing because they're ignorant. All mixed in with various other offensive insults and abuse. That is actually a great example, because no one would seriously make the point that Game of Thrones is a bad show because it's in english. It's perfectly fine to say "I don't like GoT because I don't understand the language". It's wrong to say "It's not a very good show because I don't speak the language." The level of your English has no influence on the quality of the show.
ere not talking about good or bad.we are talking about entertaining and boring.the initial guy just said the pl players were boring to him.and the movie example is good.if you can not understand the language a movie is made in and without subtitles it becomes boring fast
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On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy.
I would bet he would be retired by now if EG had never picked him, after stagnating between code A/low code S, achieving nothing, and not traveling to foreign tournaments at all.
I think he became good because EG, more than money, gave him motivation and tournaments to play
It must be depressing being locked in a team house to play a GSL match every few weeks (or months)
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
PL needs JD
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Right... Greenwings.... I forgot about Jaedong being part of them...
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On December 04 2013 01:13 Homework wrote:
in my fantasy world, EG and Liquid merge so Taeja and Jaedong are on the same team.
And they team up with Acer for GSTL, while Axiom reigns over WCS America.
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On December 04 2013 03:04 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:59 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision. He only won 3 starleagues in BW.
Incorrect. 3 OSL titles, 2 MSL titles.
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On December 04 2013 03:06 Ace Frehley wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I would bet he would be retired by now if EG had never picked him, after stagnating between code A/low code S, achieving nothing, and not traveling to foreign tournaments at all. I think he became good because EG, more than money, gave him motivation and tournaments to play It must be depressing being locked in a team house to play a GSL match every few weeks (or months)
More along the lines of granting JD to participate in practically anything he wants. The great thing about EG is they have resources to finance the players and give them exposure. In terms of workmanship, yeah he's a workhorse but just because you're a workhorse doesn't necessarily mean you will find success like Flash for example. Both of them have had their fair share of hurdles. I don't expect Flash to break out anytime soon. Maybe with a new patch or an expansion we'll see, but my expectations are low.
On December 04 2013 03:11 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:04 Harem wrote:On December 04 2013 02:59 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision. He only won 3 starleagues in BW. Incorrect. 3 OSL titles, 2 MSL titles.
Worth noting, when some people say star league they're only referring to the OSL. I still remember the old debates on these forums about the OSL over the MSL. Anyway, it's very antiquated terminology.
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United States11390 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:11 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:04 Harem wrote:On December 04 2013 02:59 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision. He only won 3 starleagues in BW. Incorrect. 3 OSL titles, 2 MSL titles.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Starleague
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On December 04 2013 03:12 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:11 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 03:04 Harem wrote:On December 04 2013 02:59 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I think the entire scene would be far better off if there was an ironclad agreement to practice a maximum of 6 hours a day. It's a pipe dream of course, but if implementable, would mean every competitor would have time to travel, eat and sleep properly, exercise, have a hobby, go to school etc etc. We would probably have healthier and happier pro gamers overall. Jaedong did the Korean grind for years and years, and even in that environment he was known for his borderline inhuman work ethic. He's older now, maybe he feels like that part of his life is passed, perhaps he just does not want to be cooked up in a house with 5-8 other young guys all day, maybe he wants to travel, have his own place, have new experiences while still enjoying the game. I'm thoroughly convinced that is a better approach for both physical and mental health in the long run. He paid his dues in BW and won five starleagues and became the indisputably best zerg to ever play the greatest RTS ever made. Even if he never wins a major tournament in SC2, he has already accomplished more than 99% of all pro gamers ever will, in either game. I'll always be a fan and hope for him to be as good as he can possibly get, but if he cannot bring himself to go back to the endless grind in a cramped teamhouse in Korea, I completely understand that decision. He only won 3 starleagues in BW. Incorrect. 3 OSL titles, 2 MSL titles. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Starleague
Both MSL and OSL were generally accepted as starleagues in common nomenclature. Nada was always said to have won 6 starleagues.
Either way, would it be possible, just once, even though this is TL, not to get bogged down in a debate over semantics and derail the whole thread because of one sentence in a 3 paragraph post?
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Like I said earlier Squat, it's old terminology. You really have to be old to remember the old lexicon sometimes. I'm old. =[
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I was there too. I always called MSL a starleague, it had the same format, the same players, it just as difficult to win. I always found the pedantic attitude to the terminology a bit superfluous.
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On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person.
Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment.
Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often.
Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that.
I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously.
To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case.
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On December 04 2013 02:53 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:43 Ventris wrote:On December 04 2013 02:33 StarStruck wrote:
That doesn't make them faceless Koreans and just because he doesn't pay attention to what's happening over there is ignorance. This isn't refutable. If you read his first post there was no valid criticism in it and I have no idea why anyone would even try bother defending it.
As far as I'm concerned you are allowed to invalidate opinions when there is very little substance to them. That's all I did. He explicitely said that he wasn't criticising PL but merely stating his personal preference. He just likes GSL more and thats his good right. And people are defending him, because you behaved like a douchebag and unnecessarily got personal. d-bag? That's what I call getting personal. The only thing I said about him was he was ignorant and noted his self-entitlement. I'm sorry if I don't resort to name calling, but I call it at as I see it and I use factual information to back up my claims instead of just saying, "I don't like the time it comes on. I watch GSTL because I like their production more." Nothing wrong with the last sentence, but don't tell me you don't like the time of PL and the OSL when it happens around the same time as the GSTL. That invalidates your first point about the timing and that negates the idea of VODs as well. Then we come to the idea of faceless Koreans again when in reality it's just flat out ignorance. I showed you how they cater towards the Korean audience and have SNM do some translation. You are entitled not to like the OSL/PL English production, but just because there is that language barrier doesn't make them faceless. Going to the guy's Game of Thrones example in a different language. That doesn't make the characters faceless. Heck, they even have characters who speak in entirely different tongues. I think we get to the meat of what they're all about by other things. I've been with several women who's family's spoke different languages and guess what? I picked up a lot of what they said and I wouldn't call them faceless at all. At the end of the day, KeSPA and OGN produce a ridiculous amount of SC content. You are allowed to not like the production, but you might want to take a second before you call someone faceless because truth be told, a lot of these players have a lot of content. KeSPA has stepped it up a notch when it comes to content with regards to the players.
You always do this though, coming in a thread and no matter what you are right, its so fucking annoying.
You didn't decosntruct any of his claims, he says he finds them faceless (thats just bad wording, if you would think about it ONE second you would understand he just doesn't know them from BW).
Bad time spot cause GSL and GSTL are around the same time, so ofc you only watch ONE of them, that would mean if Jaedong would play Proleague he would have to decide if he wants to watch the in his opinion superior product (GSL/GSTL) or Jaedong in Proleague.
I can't believe you couldnt think about that by yourself, instead you try to give your 2 cents to literally EVERYTHING, and most of the time in an arrogant way, have a nice day sir.
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You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it.
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It seems he likes being the new YellOw
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Acer.Jaedong
Liquid`Jaedong
QuanticJaedong
AxiomJaedong
AllianceJaedong
coLJaedong
endless possibilities...
or he just stays on EG :p
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On December 04 2013 03:32 Arpayon wrote:
It seems he likes being the new YellOw
Travel the world, great salary, big sponsors, rich as fuck. I'd say JD is doing ok for himself.
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i think that a lot of problems in the sc2 community would be solved if people sort of stopped inventing words for which human kind already has some nice words."pale faced" and "faceless" are sort of weird and maybe insulting alternatives to the good ol english word known as "boring" or "unknown".nobody would probably take offense if someone is called boring cause we use the word to describe a lot of things in real life.
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On December 04 2013 03:35 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:32 Arpayon wrote:
It seems he likes being the new YellOw Travel the world, great salary, big sponsors, rich as fuck. I'd say JD is doing ok for himself.
He's doing far greater than YellOw and who knows. He'll probably follow suit and go into reality shows when it's all said and done.
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On December 04 2013 03:37 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:35 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 03:32 Arpayon wrote:
It seems he likes being the new YellOw Travel the world, great salary, big sponsors, rich as fuck. I'd say JD is doing ok for himself. He's doing far greater than YellOw and who knows. He'll probably follow suit and go into reality shows when it's all said and done.
They tried doing a bachelor type show with Jaedong once, but the studio was overrun with fangirls a la World War Z within 15 minutes of the announcement.
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On December 03 2013 19:24 DiMano wrote:
Hate EG for killing TSL and Team 8 but if JD likes it so be it. But no JD in SPL means that the popularity of SPL will be so small in Korea which is another big strike to the dying scene...
Uh, wtf are you on about?
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No jaedong in proleague
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what about the EG curse? I mean all those second places are lining up. JD better be careful.
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Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong.
I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa
I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T
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On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T
Yeah, they announced it a while ago. As a few others have said, there really is no point for him to stay there when there are many more opportunities out there regardless of something being the best league or training grounds. It's like the same conversation all over again when IdrA decided to come back home. Things really haven't changed all that much.
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On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T
nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack.
"win some korean tournaments"
what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong.
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On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong.
Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to.
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On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to.
Well, considering guys like Life and Leenock struggled in WCS KR throughout the whole year it would definitely be a lot harder, but the over exaggeration is unwarranted.
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EG luxury too stronk. Plus, Jaedong seems to be doing well on his own in EG (practice-wise). Ya first place finishes may be crucial, but second place finishes are no slack either.
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On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case.
Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic.
You disliking something = Opinion
You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion
An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them.
There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless."
Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out.
The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book.
Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path.
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On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to.
you have any facts to back it up?
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On December 04 2013 03:40 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:37 StarStruck wrote:On December 04 2013 03:35 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 03:32 Arpayon wrote:
It seems he likes being the new YellOw Travel the world, great salary, big sponsors, rich as fuck. I'd say JD is doing ok for himself. He's doing far greater than YellOw and who knows. He'll probably follow suit and go into reality shows when it's all said and done. They tried doing a bachelor type show with Jaedong once, but the studio was overrun with fangirls a la World War Z within 15 minutes of the announcement.
Once I heard something about Jersey Shore feat. The Dong
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On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong.
Like GSTL, PL, GSL and probably OSL (monte christo said in an interview at iem new york that OGN would have done 2/3 OSLs this year without wcs and now they are no longer a part of OSL). Jaedong made second at blizzcon, anyone capable of beating the recent GSL champ + many other top level players can make it into code s and even get 2nd
Also there is a difference between EGTL not being in PL and EG not being in it.
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EG.Jaedong make it happen once again
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On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up?
Well what you just wrote looks like a good start.
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On December 04 2013 04:11 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Like GSTL, PL, GSL and probably OSL (monte christo said in an interview at iem new york that OGN would have done 2/3 OSLs this year without wcs and now they are no longer a part of OSL). Jaedong made second at blizzcon, anyone capable of beating the recent GSL champ + many other top level players can make it into code s and even get 2nd Also there is a difference between EGTL not being in PL and EG not being in it.
man i dont really want to sound mean or anything but you are a bit unrealistic.
First of all i think you realised by now that the policy in the esports community is to be politically corect and not burn any bridges.Nobody will say:"we dropped sc2 cause no on was watching it and dota2 has 400k viewers".they will always say:"sc2 is a great esports,with a great community,blizzard is supporting it.everything is going to be okay."
for the second part of your answer i would start of saying you can not play in the gstl and pl at the same time.secondly in the wcs 2014 announcement blizzard announced gom to be the sole organizers of wcs next season and the only guaranteed thing form ogn would be mega epic super HEARTHSTONE tournaments.also ogn transfered their sc2 coomentators to guess what game...wait for it...dota2.Thirdly the only remote chance eg goes into pl is that if it puts the 100k participation fee+living costs for all players in korea.thirdly jaedongs performance in gsl has been dawnting.he was eliminated from code a.also all koreans in the foreign scene who get sent to many tournaments,get experience from those tournaments and perform good overall.duckdeok,revival,hero,taeja,hyun were not doing that well in korea before eg and tl brought them in the foreign scene.at blizzcon duckdeok beat innovation yet in korea he is just a b teamer in the im squad and probably made the most money out of all his teammates last season.
tl dr: he ain't playing in korea unless the triads kidnap him
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Thread title is misleading, all the content says is that it's up to Jaedong completely, not a matter of contract.
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On December 04 2013 04:11 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Like GSTL, PL, GSL and probably OSL (monte christo said in an interview at iem new york that OGN would have done 2/3 OSLs this year without wcs and now they are no longer a part of OSL). Jaedong made second at blizzcon, anyone capable of beating the recent GSL champ + many other top level players can make it into code s and even get 2nd Also there is a difference between EGTL not being in PL and EG not being in it.
I'm not completely sold that Jaedong would do well in those leagues considering how many more obstacles would be in front of him. We've seen a lot of high caliber players fall and look at the guys they fell too. It's not easy.
I really don't think the Korean Team Leagues are worth EG's time alone under the current system. Heck, we're still waiting for the PL to get underway again and who knows what the schedule is going to be like.
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On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up?
2nd in a season finals and blizzcon isn't enough for you to acknowledge how good he is? Tournaments that was almost composed entirely of WCS premier/season final champions? Good lord. Some people.
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On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up?
Now lets think for a second. Even though he did not win anything this year. Jaedong took Second Place in 5 events and Top 4 in 7 events that is still amazing and shows Jaedong has amazing talent.
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On December 04 2013 04:34 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up? 2nd in a season finals and blizzcon isn't enough for you to acknowledge how good he is? Tournaments that was almost composed entirely of WCS premier/season final champions? Good lord. Some people.
outside of korea he is probably the best korean playing.in korea he did not achieve much in sc2.
@deadantos
all of which were events outside of korea.
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On December 04 2013 03:49 DRTnOOber wrote:
Liquid JD. Nuff said.
Please no
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On December 04 2013 03:44 Supert0fu wrote:No jaedong in proleague
yeah.. that was the thought that popped into my mind... yikes
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On December 04 2013 04:40 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:34 Zenbrez wrote:On December 04 2013 04:10 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 04:04 Squat wrote:On December 04 2013 04:02 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 03:56 Lorch wrote:Did EG ever actually officially announce that they'll pull out of PL? I mean yea they let their coaches go, yea they closed the house, yea the partnership with TL is kinda over, BUT there is still hope. PL without Jaedong would just feel wrong. I really hoped to see Jaedong go back to kespa I'd much rather see my Dong stay in Korea, grind hard, win some korean tournaments instead of traveling the world as a kong T.T nazgul announced they will not be in pl next season when he was interviewed by incontrol at dreamhack. "win some korean tournaments" what korean tournaments?the only korean tournamnets left at gsl where jaedong was obliterated.his chances of doing something in the gsl are 0.if eg or other foreign team do not pick him up its either the lol scene or retirement for the dong. Has anyone told you that you're kind of silly? Because if not I'd be happy to. you have any facts to back it up? 2nd in a season finals and blizzcon isn't enough for you to acknowledge how good he is? Tournaments that was almost composed entirely of WCS premier/season final champions? Good lord. Some people. outside of korea he is probably the best korean playing.in korea he did not achieve much in sc2. @deadantos all of which were events outside of korea.
I don't want to ruffle feathers here, but the top 8-top 16 of those "foreign events" were composed very heavily of... "non-foreigners."
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans.
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On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it.
I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though.
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On December 04 2013 04:44 c0ldfusion wrote:yeah.. that was the thought that popped into my mind... yikes
flash is still in the proleague.he is a big draw.altough i wonder how godlike flash would become if he had the same opportunities as jaedong aka being on a foreign team and sent to all foreign tournaments.if hyun,polt and b teamers like duckdeok can make it,flash could actually dominate
@thieving magpie
correct.and most of the 16 koreans in those tournaments are also in jaedongs positions:they were not doing that well in korea,foreign teams picked them up and they exploded.and both bomber and sos beat jaedong in finals.the only wcs korea korean jaedong beat convincingly was maru.beating dear at blizzcon was probably the upset of the tournament but i do not see it happening again
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On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though.
Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you.
On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans.
It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/
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On December 04 2013 05:00 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though. Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you. Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans. It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/
It's not hard since he's faced comparable Korean's in numerous foreign events. If you can't judge him based on the last year then a few Korean tournaments wouldn't convince you of anything different than what you already are believing.
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On December 04 2013 05:06 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:00 StarStruck wrote:On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though. Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you. On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans. It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/ It's not hard since he's faced comparable Korean's in numerous foreign events. If you can't judge him based on the last year then a few Korean tournaments wouldn't convince you of anything different than what you already are believing.
theres at least 100 koreans in korea that given the possibilities jd,duckdeok,hyun,polt,mvp,mc have would have performed the same or even better.just look what patience did last dreamhack and what hero did at iem.imagine 100 patience every tournament.
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On December 04 2013 05:06 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:00 StarStruck wrote:On December 04 2013 04:52 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 03:30 StarStruck wrote:
You should re-read your post again then because that's exactly how you came off to me. In verbatim, I'll repeat this point once again because I'm not sure you read all the other posts. Your first post is really no different than someone coming into the LR section and saying the following, "Not another faceless Korean. Won't watch" and I'm sure you know what we do to those kind of people. That's how you came off to me. It's all about perspective and terms of facelessness. You might want to use a different word, or keep those kind of comments to yourself.
As for myself, considering how much content they (as in KeSPA) churn out like I stated before, I myself don't even have enough time to watch all of it. I don't watch every match of every player, but would I call them faceless? Heck no.
Hey, you Viper who tends not to read every post and says a lot of funky stuff. Stay out of it. I just re-read my post and, well, if you want to understand it that way, my second post should give the explanation how it was meant. My first post does not appear the way you see it to me, but hey, not my problem. Then again, after re-reading my second post also, I still don't get why you came to the conclusion which you came to right now. After re-reading my third, longest point - oh well, you're just wrong, but whatever mate, keep going. Not gonna respond anymore though. Then I recommend you read Magpie's response because he laid out the ground work for you. On December 04 2013 04:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Not to say that JD will do well in GSL because he did well in Blizzcon (heck, look at Genius) but its unfair to say that JD hasn't been doing as well as a lot of Korea only Koreans. It's very hard to make any comparisons to those players considering they're held up in Korea. =/ It's not hard since he's faced comparable Korean's in numerous foreign events. If you can't judge him based on the last year then a few Korean tournaments wouldn't convince you of anything different than what you already are believing.
Sure it is because it isn't reflective of the whole scene as a whole. Look, if more Koreans had more opportunities outside of Korea then I'm sure we'd see a few more break out performances. Look at the players who broke away from it and look at the guys who found some success elsewhere. The same rule can apply to a lot of guys. There are a lot of landmines in Korea. Jaedong knows all about this. He's already participated in those events when he was fine tuning his craft. The fact there are more landmines makes it a lot harder. We've seen many players falter under the group stages and I'm getting a little tired of the system to be honest (yes, I know it's the best format for small group stages as motbob put it in his blog a long time ago), but I would like to see a more encompassing system where it isn't two to three series and your out and call it a season. I much rather see an entire season of players battling it out against one another over and over again. Not just one set. Let's find out who truly is the best and have them all get to bunt heads multiple times. No more what if's. Let's find out who truly is the best. Wow, I haven't said that word in so long and lookie here. I just said it in two sentences in a row.
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On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path.
"Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation.
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i didn't think he would be returning
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Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
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On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
yes, lets turn this in to an sc2 vs BW thread.
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Hope he stays with EG, it is good seeing him go to all the different tournaments
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
Yes because that's clearly very likely
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On December 04 2013 05:34 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA Yes because that's clearly very likely
Duh, as soon as he finds a BW team that will pay him what EG does and get him the same benefits, he's gone.
Wait, what?
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On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation.
The problem I have with this train of thought is that KeSPA has released a lot of content with regards to the players to do just that. If you haven't watched then you haven't watched it. I cannot change that, but the content is out there. Let's use another example. I don't care for Sarah Silverman's comedy and I find her obnoxious. I don't follow her projects, but I know her content exists. Does this make her any less of a celebrity? The answer is no. Does this mean she's faceless to me? No. At the end of the day I still accept her celebrity status. Doesn't mean I have to like her, but she most certainly isn't faceless because she's produced a lot of content just like KeSPA/OGN have for the players. No one said you had to like the content, but we cannot really call them faceless.
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I honestly think the only intelligent choice is to stay with EG. He receives salary from EG which is on par, if not better, than kespa, but the real kicker is, he gets to travel to foreign tournaments all the time. Staying with EG is what I'm hoping for, and I would be surprised if he did go to any other team.
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA
Not surprising coming from someone who doesn't like Starcraft 2.
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On December 04 2013 05:38 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:34 Zealously wrote:On December 04 2013 05:26 arb wrote:
Lets hope he quits all together rand joins SoPSA Yes because that's clearly very likely Duh, as soon as he finds a BW team that will pay him what EG does and get him the same benefits, he's gone. Wait, what?
Stack enough Time Warps and Vortexes to create a portal into the past, back to 2009 when mech ruled the land and TL.net looked so very 2005.
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On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation.
I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up.
I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this.
Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now .
Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now .
he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree...
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
That's not what I said at all lmao. I don't care that you think PL sucks. That is a fair opinion to have. You can shit on the casters and the production all you want. The two things I brought up was with regards to the timing and the idea you are now willing to accept. I have no problem with you enjoying players you want to enjoy and like, but please be a little more careful when we start labeling people as faceless.
On December 04 2013 06:03 perfidiusrex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree...
Um, how do I hate foreigners? I wouldn't generalize in this case. Yeah, I have a lot of posts and it would be tedious to go through them all, but contrary to your belief I'm actually a fan of a lot of foreigners and I give credit when it's due to everyone. I'm very unbiased in all sections of these forums and that wasn't my only point of attack. If you look at the system I'd like to pitch to Blizzard you'd see that it would actually be very beneficial to all players in terms of developing them, generating exposure and creating endless story lines.
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Excellent, 0 chance he goes anywhere else. He seems pretty happy on EG, especially with all the travel opportunities they give him. :D
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These Jaedong/Kespa announcements get more amusing every time they're posted...
I thought it was already established that his "lease" had absolutely no clause about him being forced to return to JinAir after a year, and that it wasn't even a lease because he was 100% contracted with EG. At most JinAir had some special clause for negotiations, but nothing binding.
It's basically been pure PR work from Kespa since last year.
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
Have no shame in who you like
"faceless koreans" was funny when it was first used much like "Going full foreigner" was also funny when it was first used.
The problem is when derogatory slurs that started out friendly gets normalized too much. Which is why I initially said that I wasn't trying to contradict you I don't, in general, disagree with your overall conclusions. Just trying to curb this overall trend in TL to normalize the term "faceless koreans" especially when used in a thread discussing koreans.
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On December 04 2013 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
These Jaedong/Kespa announcements get more amusing every time they're posted...
I thought it was already established that his "lease" had absolutely no clause about him being forced to return to JinAir after a year, and that it wasn't even a lease because he was 100% contracted with EG. At most JinAir had some special clause for negotiations, but nothing binding.
It's basically been pure PR work from Kespa since last year.
Its mostly in case JD hates flying around the world and getting mobbed by foreign fans while winning easy money from non-korean competitors in the qualifier stages of foreign tournaments.
To give him an out in case loyalty to country matters more to him than $$$
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Northern Ireland24958 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:06 Ace Frehley wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:
'Jaedong never going to be good in SC2 outside of the Kespa environment'.
Perhaps he may have been even better still in a Kespa team, but I personally feel the chance to travel more, interact with foreign fans, the sweet sweet money and just a change of environment might actually have been a benefit to the guy. I would bet he would be retired by now if EG had never picked him, after stagnating between code A/low code S, achieving nothing, and not traveling to foreign tournaments at all. I think he became good because EG, more than money, gave him motivation and tournaments to play It must be depressing being locked in a team house to play a GSL match every few weeks (or months)
Quite possibly. It must be disheartening hitting the very peak of your profession and essentially having to start again as merely (relatively) average in a new game
Now there are some people who probably would have retired no matter what, given they don't appear to be fans of the game, but perhaps Bisu, Jangbi and their ilk may have stuck around a bit longer if they'd gotten to experience that side of things a bit more.
That said, Jaedong even historically has apparently been known for having an interest in learning English/travelling and stuff so perhaps what suits him about EG wouldn't necessarily suit some of the other Kespa giants.
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On December 04 2013 06:05 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe That's not what I said at all lmao. I don't care that you think PL sucks. That is a fair opinion to have. You can shit on the casters and the production all you want. The two things I brought up was with regards to the timing and the idea you are now willing to accept. I have no problem with you enjoying players you want to enjoy and like, but please be a little more careful when we start labeling people as faceless. Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:03 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree... Um, how do I hate foreigners? I wouldn't generalize in this case. Yeah, I have a lot of posts and it would be tedious to go through them all, but contrary to your belief I'm actually a fan of a lot of foreigners and I give credit when it's due to everyone. I'm very unbiased in all sections of these forums and that wasn't my only point of attack. If you look at the system I'd like to pitch to Blizzard you'd see that it would actually be very beneficial to all players in terms of developing them, generating exposure and creating endless story lines.
if by endless story line you mean the eu and na scene going down in flames for good(not that they are too developed right now) yeah that would make a good storyline
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On December 04 2013 06:22 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
These Jaedong/Kespa announcements get more amusing every time they're posted...
I thought it was already established that his "lease" had absolutely no clause about him being forced to return to JinAir after a year, and that it wasn't even a lease because he was 100% contracted with EG. At most JinAir had some special clause for negotiations, but nothing binding.
It's basically been pure PR work from Kespa since last year. Its mostly in case JD hates flying around the world and getting mobbed by foreign fans while winning easy money from non-korean competitors in the qualifier stages of foreign tournaments. To give him an out in case loyalty to country matters more to him than $$$
I can just imagine how those negotiations went...
"Hey Jaedong, want to come back to Kespa?"
"What's your offer?"
"...offer?"
"..."
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On December 04 2013 06:38 Radicalness wrote:
Stay with EG, JD!
Fingers crossed!
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Acer jaedong incoming. Just sayin
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Maybe it was just posturing, but if Jin Air really did have 2014 salary room for Jaedong they should sign Soulkey and/or sOs, since Woongjin isn't playing in the upcoming proleague.
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On December 04 2013 07:28 Cheren wrote:
Maybe it was just posturing, but if Jin Air really did have 2014 salary room for Jaedong they should sign Soulkey and/or sOs, since Woongjin isn't playing in the upcoming proleague.
idra was saying in the last chanman show that all sponsorship for kespa teams dropped a lot for sc2.i wanted to make a teamliquid post asking about this but my account is too new.i think the kespa sponsorship for sc2 in korea might be lower than a lot of people think
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On December 04 2013 07:24 DBS wrote:
Acer jaedong incoming. Just sayin
Jaedong Innovation MMA. oh my
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EG suits well with JD. I hope he stays
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On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe
I think as a community we'd be better off not labeling people as faceless anything. As a spectator you don't owe genius or patience anything. But Just keep in mind that calling someone "faceless" has a very specific and usually negative meaning to it and people will take offense to it. Just cause you heard it in a sc2 talk show somewhere doesn't mean you have to repeat it.
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Northern Ireland24958 Posts
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good salary, good promotion, good travelling and team
dont see how hes going to leave eg
unless eg takes a big chunk of his winnings which apparently they did (do)
either way should be the best/most stable financial situation
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That's disappointing, I would've been interested in following him if he returned to see how he does in Proleague and whatnot.
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Best of luck to Jaedong; hope to see him stay in either EG or maybe go to Liquid. : )
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United States23455 Posts
Of course the logical next step to the Liquid vs. EG rivalry is LiquidFlash. Just saying.
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I think its obvious after hearing this news.... Jaedong is retiring when his contract expires
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United States23455 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:33 Joedaddy wrote:I think its obvious after hearing this news.... Jaedong is retiring when his contract expires
How in the hell is that obvious? o_O
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Jaedong!! go to IM Team....IMjaedong.... go go !!!!
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I'm a disappointed JinAir/JaeDong fanboy =(
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Good, hopefully he stays on a successful team like EG..
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 04 2013 10:40 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 10:33 Joedaddy wrote:I think its obvious after hearing this news.... Jaedong is retiring when his contract expires How in the hell is that obvious? o_O
ya, I'm wondering the same lol. I think JD is gonna stay on EG for years to come seeing as he likes how things are last I heard.
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On December 04 2013 12:34 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 10:40 Darkhoarse wrote:On December 04 2013 10:33 Joedaddy wrote:I think its obvious after hearing this news.... Jaedong is retiring when his contract expires How in the hell is that obvious? o_O ya, I'm wondering the same lol. I think JD is gonna stay on EG for years to come seeing as he likes how things are last I heard.
Plus, the only people who retired are those who were less successful in SC2 then they were BW whereas JD is actually doing better now then he was before. I know that might sound like heresy but towards the end JD looked like he didn't have it anymore but now in SC2 he is back in form and is one of the top zergs in the world if not the top.
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Jaedong is getting up there in age. How much time does he have left until he has to do military service?
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EG is like hotel california: You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!
...or a blackman: Once you go EG you never go back.
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would be funny if he went to a KHAN or a SKT or even KT lol
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On December 04 2013 13:10 Spacekyod wrote:
Jaedong is getting up there in age. How much time does he have left until he has to do military service?
I might be totally wrong but I believe he still has a good 4-6 years before he really have to do it.
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I hope he sticks with eg or at least a team really willing to keep sending him to foreign events.
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On December 04 2013 06:05 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . Edit #2: I will always enjoy a Dreamhack more than a GSL/OSL Ro32, too. #shameOnMe That's not what I said at all lmao. I don't care that you think PL sucks. That is a fair opinion to have. You can shit on the casters and the production all you want. The two things I brought up was with regards to the timing and the idea you are now willing to accept. I have no problem with you enjoying players you want to enjoy and like, but please be a little more careful when we start labeling people as faceless. Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:03 perfidiusrex wrote:On December 04 2013 05:58 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 05:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On December 04 2013 04:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 03:20 boxerfred wrote:On December 04 2013 01:27 StarStruck wrote:
boxerfred,
we just pointed out how useless your opinion was and invalid some of your points were. You cannot bitch and moan about something that takes place at a time less than ideal for you because over there the time is good for them. This point is saying, the world should revolve around you. Get over yourself.
As for the idea of faceless Koreans. Over there and to a lot of other people they aren't faceless. Stop projecting. You bitch about times yet you watch the GSTL, which has a similar schedule to PL and the OSL. Once again, get over yourself.
Furthermore, the OSL and PL Korean production showcases the actual players if you know Korean. Like I said before, they use everything from player theme music, to pre match interviews to playback interviews with the players. If you don't think this helps expose the players more than I don't know what to say to you. So you don't understand Korean. Too bad. From the odd time I did hear what they were saying there was some translation, but you don't like SNM. Oh well. Once again you are entitled to have a opinion, but there just isn't a lot of substance to such claims and it's more reflective of you as a person. Hey man, an opinion can't and will never be invalid, that's the point of an opinion. What you are talking about is an argumentatio or a stand point which I am not making or taking. I am not saying that the world should rotate solely around me, but since this is a comment section, I am making a comment. Yes, over there, the players are not faceless. Over there, I guess they don't even need a translator. But since I (I am very sorry for that and excuse seriously at this point) was born in Germany and never made it to Korea (nor did I do any attempt to learn the language, I am sorry!), those guys appear 'faceless' to me. Since they make money out of my viewing time, it's their task to make me stay, not my task to make myself more entertained. That's the point of 'viewing'. I do not 'bitch' about time. I was talking about the schedule, which is bad for me. As well as GSTL schedule - so what? Since I did decide to watch GSTL, I could make it past my time restrictions at certain times. And since there are other reasons (for me!) to not watch PL as often as GSTL, I do not watch it that often. Also, I am not saying that OSL or PL ever did a shitty job at production. Introducing players, doing interviews, having theme music, all this is a sign of great production and I do respect that. But, for completely subjective reasons like "I do not like the color, I do not like the music, I do not like whatever the hell you are showing", I do not like it. Imagine you're at a museum (casually), and look at some great impressionists. You like it. Then you go for old greek paintings and just decide to not like the art because of the style. Your decision, your opinion. Not everyone's opinion, but so what? You can still go to a bar (which is, in this comparison, the comment section of this thread) and say "Oh well, didn't like that." Noone would say you're a worse or better person because of that, though some people would of course question your taste, just like you did - oh wait, you didn't. You're saying it tells a lot about me as a person. If you think so, oh well, I can deal with that. I just want to say that your post appears to be a bit like "I'm a fan and you just insulted the subject of my joy". If I did, I'm sorry. Didn't mean to by any means. Please read my first post again and show me exactly the point where I went full "EVERYTHING'S REVOLVING AROUND ME GO FOR IT MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOU ALL SUCK DICK" - if you can find it, I'll excuse seriously. To have an opinion, you need to have one thing. A mind. So for whatever reasons I do have my opinion, it is still my opinion. Not yours, not everyone else's, but who the hell cares? If you like PL, go enjoy it, watch it, have all the fun in the world. I'm not staying behind you and whispering in your ear "oh this is so crappy", though it seems like your have read my post as if that was the case. Not that I want to contradict your point, but I just wanted to point out a problem with your logic. You disliking something = Opinion You accusing someone of being faceless =/= Opinion An opinion is a personal belief or idea that describes your personal experience with an object, person, or event. When you begin projecting descriptions on others/objects then you are no longer talking about you subjective experience with them. There is a big difference between saying "I find him boring" versus "he is faceless." Saying you find someone boring says that you are at fault for being unable to connect to him. Calling someone faceless says that the object in question is at fault for not seeking you out. The truth is that neither you nor the object *have* to seek each other out. If you want to connect to said Korean, you should reach out to them by either learning Korean or reading lots of interviews. If the Korean thinks its important to learn english and wear costumes to play exotic monkey to white people, it is up to him to make the decision. When you start projecting what you want the koreans to do by calling them faceless and whining about how your German and germans don't need to learn Korean; it makes you sound a bit too midwest american for my book. Your allowed to have your opinion. You're allowed to find people who don't look like you to be boring. But when you start saying that they should change to fit your standards, that they don't have personalities, that they don't seem human just because they're different than you--then you start going down a pretty dark path. "Faceless Korean" is kind of a tactless label for Korean players that haven't distinguished themselves from the rest. It has nothing to do with personality. Flash hasnt tried to court foreign fans as much as DRG or MC,but Nobody would call Flash a faceless Korean because he's goddam Flash. Leenock and Life aren't seen as faceless Koreans even though in interviews they would give the exact same answers as Jjakji or Alive or Sniper. But they they've come to foreign tournaments and won and they are still high school students so their story is very relatable for a lot of people. Those kind of stories don't come out much for your average Korean. They get a winners interview which are so generic it's comical (hamburgers...) and an awkward trophy presentation. I do agree on the faceless korean topic. I used those words inappropiately. For me, a 'faceless korean' is a generic top level korean player that I do not enjoy to watch because of the lack of personality/lack of knowledge about/generic other reason. As much as Elfi and Sjow are 'faceless foreigners' to me, Genius and Patience are 'faceless koreans' to me. Sorry for the missuse, might have created a huge missunderstanding there. I hope that cleared it up. I still disagree with 100% of what Starstruck is saying, reading his posts kinda feels like a TL veteran with 22k posts is pissed because I dared to say PL sucks. Though I never said this. Edit: I'll enjoy the players I want to enjoy, and having to prove my point is really making me tired. Just accept my opinion and sort it into "fuck that guy he's stupid anyways" if you want to, but just leave me alone now . he sort of likes koreans.he also is against region locking.the reason he went of on you is cause you called the koreans faceless.pl is just his excuse to vent.he also sort of hates foreigners to a certain degree... Um, how do I hate foreigners? I wouldn't generalize in this case. Yeah, I have a lot of posts and it would be tedious to go through them all, but contrary to your belief I'm actually a fan of a lot of foreigners and I give credit when it's due to everyone. I'm very unbiased in all sections of these forums and that wasn't my only point of attack. If you look at the system I'd like to pitch to Blizzard you'd see that it would actually be very beneficial to all players in terms of developing them, generating exposure and creating endless story lines.
I tried to understand your words as a valid argumentation, but I couldn't. So please, mister, shut up and go have a troll time elsewhere.
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On December 04 2013 14:32 sM.Zik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 13:10 Spacekyod wrote:
Jaedong is getting up there in age. How much time does he have left until he has to do military service? I might be totally wrong but I believe he still has a good 4-6 years before he really have to do it.
I believe you have to start the military service before you're 30 in South Korea, so yeah Jaedong still has a lot of time.
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On December 04 2013 10:02 peidongyang wrote:
good salary, good promotion, good travelling and team
dont see how hes going to leave eg
unless eg takes a big chunk of his winnings which apparently they did (do)
either way should be the best/most stable financial situation
I didn't know they took winnings..! Source? How much?
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And suddenly Jaedong is going back to BW to rival Bisu.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 04 2013 21:28 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 10:02 peidongyang wrote:
good salary, good promotion, good travelling and team
dont see how hes going to leave eg
unless eg takes a big chunk of his winnings which apparently they did (do)
either way should be the best/most stable financial situation I didn't know they took winnings..! Source? How much?
I haven't heard of this, but it seems legit for a team that has supported a player and financed his living/travel to take a cut of his winnings. Shouldn't be a super high percentage.
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Wow, Kespa. Way to not screw over Jaedong on contracting issues this time.
I am surprised.
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On December 05 2013 00:46 Antisocialmunky wrote:Wow, Kespa. Way to not screw over Jaedong on contracting issues this time. I am surprised.
No reason to anymore. SC2 is international, and barely scraping by in Korea. They want more players out, not in. A guy like JD who comes with a huge price tag would a massive drain in most teams. EG with their south-american drug cartel money can afford him.
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EPT
