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I don't like the reduction in the improvement they're giving to Tunnelling Claws upgrade (2.00 instead of 2.25 as previously planned, bot up from 1.40625 though), nor do I like the reduction in improvement for siege tank cooldown (cooldown of 2.80 when they were planning to make it 2.70, down from 3.00).
:/
Disagree with oracle speed still.
That said, I still want a corruptor buff + Show Spoiler +Speed from 2.953125 -> 3.25 or 3.375, Increase base and maybe vs Massive. damage by ~20% each 
A corruptor speed buff would also help corruptors to split a tad more easily against ravens, though it doesn't make PDDs any less devastatingly efficient but "ah well" to that for now. I still want better corruptors.
On November 12 2013 13:05 Bulugulu wrote:
Also why should terran players be forced to make WMs and tanks to fulfill the AOE purpose when for zerg they only need one unit to fulfill that purpose, much less 2 units that requires completely separate and meticulous micro?
Also having to make tanks and WMs will take more facts which will delay upgrades which puts terran even further behind.
The only good response will be turtle to ravens I guess which I refuse to do.
I guess it would be nice if someone in blizzards balance team wasn't in gold league.
Oh dear. So banes, which need to be split to be effective against good marine micro but which can still be an utter waste with said micro and need to hit ~4+ marines (and have the marines die from banes/banes+support overall) to even pay for themselves and infestors that fire slow projectiles that deal piddly damage are much more fearsome than mines, you think?
You also expect to be able to skimp on AOE to rush fast upgrades, when the current state of ZvT has seen T get ahead of zerg upgrades a lot more often.
Forcing a few more tanks or mines might equalise timings, but no, that's surely bad for the game...
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Well there go my chances to get GM with terran.
The oracle needed no buff obviously..
And bio tank will not be viable TvZ.
Bio players will now suffer a great deal in TvT.
Also why should terran players be forced to make WMs and tanks to fulfill the AOE purpose when for zerg they only need one unit to fulfill that purpose, much less 2 units that requires completely separate and meticulous micro?
Also having to make tanks and WMs will take more facts which will delay upgrades which puts terran even further behind.
The only good response will be turtle to ravens I guess which I refuse to do.
I guess it would be nice if someone in blizzards balance team wasn't in gold league.
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On November 12 2013 13:05 Bulugulu wrote:
Well there go my chances to get GM with terran.
The oracle needed no buff obviously..
And bio tank will not be viable TvZ.
Bio players will now suffer a great deal in TvT.
Also why should terran players be forced to make WMs and tanks to fulfill the AOE purpose when for zerg they only need one unit to fulfill that purpose, much less 2 units that requires completely separate and meticulous micro?
Also having to make tanks and WMs will take more facts which will delay upgrades which puts terran even further behind.
The only good response will be turtle to ravens I guess which I refuse to do.
I guess it would be nice if someone in blizzards balance team wasn't in gold league.
The patch hasn't even gone live yet. Give it a chance. Try to be open minded about the possibility of mixing in siege tanks more often. Maybe there is some opportunity to innovate. I guarantee you that some Korean Terran (probably Gumiho) will design a tank style for you to copy soon enough if you watch the GSL. As for Oracles, it isn't that different. Make turrets when you scout a stargate. It's good for them to be faster so good players can get more use out of them other than just as surprise mineral line raping gimmicks. Maybe their damage will need to be nerfed at some point, but that's a different issue. As for roaches, they were boring as hell and needed the buff.
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On November 12 2013 13:17 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 13:05 Bulugulu wrote:
Well there go my chances to get GM with terran.
The oracle needed no buff obviously..
And bio tank will not be viable TvZ.
Bio players will now suffer a great deal in TvT.
Also why should terran players be forced to make WMs and tanks to fulfill the AOE purpose when for zerg they only need one unit to fulfill that purpose, much less 2 units that requires completely separate and meticulous micro?
Also having to make tanks and WMs will take more facts which will delay upgrades which puts terran even further behind.
The only good response will be turtle to ravens I guess which I refuse to do.
I guess it would be nice if someone in blizzards balance team wasn't in gold league. The patch hasn't even gone live yet. Give it a chance. Try to be open minded about the possibility of mixing in siege tanks more often. Maybe there is some opportunity to innovate. I guarantee you that some Korean Terran (probably Gumiho) will design a tank style for you to copy soon enough if you watch the GSL. As for Oracles, it isn't that different. Make turrets when you scout a stargate. It's good for them to be faster so good players can get more use out of them other than just as surprise mineral line raping gimmicks. Maybe their damage will need to be nerfed at some point, but that's a different issue. As for roaches, they were boring as hell and needed the buff.
Patch is live on NA and KR (probably EU, I haven't checked).
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Oracle change seems...unnecessary. Everything else seems solid. It doesn't seem like speed is a great way to increase the lategame viability. Siege tanks will be interesting, to see if they pop up in zvt. It would be real interesting to see marine/tank/mine/medivac.
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I really liked watching bio mine vs zerg... the only matchup where there seemed to be constant battles.
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are the remastered Brood War songs in game already?
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Obviously a really stupid patch as pretty much everyone can see. Pretty ironic that the Oracle (already a fucking great unit) got such a MASSIVE buff, and the Tank (pretty much the shittiest Terran support unit outside of TvT) got a fuckin .2 deduction in SIEGE MODE, which will be barely noticeable. I think it's finally time to stop playing despite my past love for this game -- T has been moulded and forced to play one or two boring, predictable, easily countered macro builds vs the P and Z - there's none of the previous diversity or innovation before these mind-blowing nerfs.
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Oh boy i can't wait to be proxy oracle again,now that my mines will not OS them anymore.
Thanks god we have hearthstone to cool off.
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On November 12 2013 13:27 shid0x wrote:
Oh boy i can't wait to be proxy oracle again,now that my mines will not OS them anymore.
Thanks god we have hearthstone to cool off.
The widow mine splash was nerfed. The single target damage is the same as ever, and its not like Oracles got a health buff, so why do you think you can't oneshot them now?
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I thought tanks were getting a faster attack. Did Blizzard decide not to do that?
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i sympathize with terrans worrying about the state of tvz after the widow mine nerf, but i don't think we should be getting angry about WMs being weaker. it was still a bad and broken gameplay mechanic. the fact that the matchup balanced out overall just means that more changes are necessary to continue improving it
i don't play terran so i don't know why the tank buff isn't enough, but terrans seem to be convinced that it's not. that's unfortunate. i wish the tank buff were better, because the widow mine nerf really should be happening. even a zerg nerf to go along with teh WM nerf would be fine by me (muta nerf?)
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On November 12 2013 13:29 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 13:27 shid0x wrote:
Oh boy i can't wait to be proxy oracle again,now that my mines will not OS them anymore.
Thanks god we have hearthstone to cool off. The widow mine splash was nerfed. The single target damage is the same as ever, and its not like Oracles got a health buff, so why do you think you can't oneshot them now?
My brain farted for a sec.
I made a correlation between the widow mine distance and the mine damage...well its late.
Still its too fast :p
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The oracle needed the acceleration. The speed is a little over the top. It wasn't that hard to keep alive even in the lategame, you either have the multitasking for it or you don't. Fancy micro with it is not gonna happen, its shield is too weak.
I don't understand all the whine about proxy oracles. It's speed is about 15% increased. If it took 10s from the proxy location to your base, it's now gonna take 8.5s. It will just survive a little longer.
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On November 12 2013 13:05 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
I don't like the reduction in the improvement they're giving to Tunnelling
Oh dear. So banes, which need to be split to be effective against good marine micro but which can still be an utter waste with said micro and need to hit ~4+ marines (and have the marines die from banes/banes+support overall) to even pay for themselves and infestors that fire slow projectiles that deal piddly damage are much more fearsome than mines, you think?
You also expect to be able to skimp on AOE to rush fast upgrades, when the current state of ZvT has seen T get ahead of zerg upgrades a lot more often.
Forcing a few more tanks or mines might equalise timings, but no, that's surely bad for the game...
yeah. zerg builds mass bane because terran builds mass marine. it's a direct unit counter, and good players can still mitigate the counter with micro like you said, so it's kind of silly to harp on zergs for "only needing one unit to do AOE" when it's actually pretty damn hard to use them correctly above low leagues
we have two units that counter marines with aoe or splash, the baneling and the ultralisk, and both units are melee units whose effectiveness hinges pretty largely on the opponent's micro and kiting. other than that, we have fungal, which is pretty unanimously considered non viable as a main source of AOE DPS against bio (although it's useful for locking and zoning in certain situations)
if anything, it's that zerg needs more options for AOE, not that the requirements are too low
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On November 12 2013 13:35 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 13:05 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
I don't like the reduction in the improvement they're giving to Tunnelling
Oh dear. So banes, which need to be split to be effective against good marine micro but which can still be an utter waste with said micro and need to hit ~4+ marines (and have the marines die from banes/banes+support overall) to even pay for themselves and infestors that fire slow projectiles that deal piddly damage are much more fearsome than mines, you think?
You also expect to be able to skimp on AOE to rush fast upgrades, when the current state of ZvT has seen T get ahead of zerg upgrades a lot more often.
Forcing a few more tanks or mines might equalise timings, but no, that's surely bad for the game... yeah. zerg builds mass bane because terran builds mass marine. it's a direct unit counter, and good players can still mitigate the counter with micro like you said, so it's kind of silly to harp on zergs for "only needing one unit to do AOE" when it's actually pretty damn hard to use them correctly above low leagues we have two units that counter marines with aoe or splash, the baneling and the ultralisk, and both units are melee units whose effectiveness hinges pretty largely on the opponent's micro and kiting. other than that, we have fungal, which is pretty unanimously considered non viable as a main source of AOE DPS against bio (although it's useful for locking and zoning in certain situations) if anything, it's that zerg needs more options for AOE, not that the requirements are too low
Buff fungal! (just kidding) :p
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Tank buff is only for defending roach/bane busts/doing early timings v Z. They would have to make Tank aoe size insane to have tanks be viable in an actual mid game scenario v Z because of regenmutas.
Tanks could be used before because they would trade marginally OK vs Z ground, and any damage you put on the mutas stayed. Until eventually you actually took a fight that could finally remove the mutas. Trading tanks vs bane/ling is suicide now, since you are throwing away massive resources with no damage against mutas.
Even if handwaving clowns believed that a 8% dps increase magically resulted in an extra wave of tank shots, that still wouldn't be enough, unless you think tank could kill more banes than what mines are killing now. The reason it's 8% is because TvT limitations, you know the only matchup in which tanks are viable.
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On November 12 2013 13:24 Lunareste wrote:
are the remastered Brood War songs in game already?
No, that'll probably be for the next big client patch that updates clans and the other stuff they outline at Blizzcon.
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Oracle is ridiculously OP now.
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On November 12 2013 13:40 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 13:24 Lunareste wrote:
are the remastered Brood War songs in game already? No, that'll probably be for the next big client patch that updates clans and the other stuff they outline at Blizzcon.
when will this patch be?
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EPT
