On November 08 2013 16:28 Fizzy wrote: Dont know why, but i get the feeling that the writer does not like naniwa. This kind of ruins it for me eventho there are alot of valid points.
You are wrong. But hey, at least Swedes are no longer automatically seen as biased Nani fans. PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE
No, Fizzy's got a point. Sure, your last section highlighted his potential, but you can definitely can be less negative with your description. Calling him an "eSport outsider" is a bit harsh. Hell, even Jaedong can be considered to be an "outsider" by your definition because you can tell that he plays to win and does not care about the fan support he gets, as seen from his interviews (not that I have a problem with that).
You are crazy, JD loves his fans and I've seen him thank them 100x. He stayed extra long for fan signings at WCS season 3 just 2 weeks or so ago.
Anyways, good article, captured nani's polarization of fans and haters quite well.
I wanted to reply with the same thing but then I realized he's probably talking about the fact JD isn't sitting in the booth thinking "Damn I would like to 6-pool, but what if people hate me for this?". Like Mvp, MC & Naniwa he just does what he thinks has the highest chance to win. But I agree, outside of the game he's definitely fuelled by all the fan support and enjoys every second of it (:
Regarding Naniwa - there was a hype video in the LR thread where he was basically saying he was well aware of his reputation and it hurt him, but the reason why he didn't want to quit is that he wanted to leave a more positive legacy behind. After hearing such a strong personal statement this article seems to be slightly more distant which is a shame, but it's well-written nonetheless and just another view on what he's like as a player.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
This article would've been fitting 6 months ago, the naniwa of today who thanked the fans again and again at IEM etc. does not fit the description. Bad article.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
*signed
the article ist just bad... it doesn't focus at all on the achievements and on the road naniwa took but solely on some bullshit on 2011... I enjoyed all articles so far... but this one is so bad... man
On November 08 2013 21:21 Snusmumriken wrote: This article would've been fitting 6 months ago, the naniwa of today who thanked the fans again and again at IEM etc. does not fit the description. Bad article.
yepp I am so glad that many on TL forum agree on this one... and btw. you can't ban all the guys that think this article is just bad
and btw. I am not a huge naniwa fan... You can call me fanboy when it comes down to mouz players like HasuObs... but not naniwa.. I just think that the article is bad for numerous reasons.
it didn't focus at all on the road, like I already said, he had take to get to blizcon instead talking about 2011 crap...
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
On November 08 2013 21:21 Snusmumriken wrote: This article would've been fitting 6 months ago, the naniwa of today who thanked the fans again and again at IEM etc. does not fit the description. Bad article.
yepp I am so glad that many on TL forum agree on this one... and btw. you can't ban all the guys that think this article is just bad
and btw. I am not a huge naniwa fan... You can call me fanboy when it comes down to mouz players like HasuObs... but not naniwa.. I just think that the article is bad for numerous reasons.
it didn't focus at all on the road, like I already said, he had take to get to blizcon instead talking about 2011 crap...
All the crap that occurred in 2011 was self-inflicted.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
On November 08 2013 20:03 Zealously wrote: Hey guys imagine if Naniwa wins Blizzcon
I would be drunk somewhere downtown and would probably forget what happened.
Not me, I hate Naniwa
Theirs a huge difference between perspective and Bias, Perspective means how you're writing a article say for example: I'm going to write about MC's SC2 legacy, or I'm going to talk about his controversial playstyle(i'm not talking about personal perspective, i'm talking writer perspective, like style of how something is written) etc. Bias means you have an incline to dictate certain things into your players favor or to make them better then they are.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
Great write-up! I definitely respect Naniwa's desire to always get stronger and prove himself as the best. That, plus the fact he doesn't portray the cuddliest personality and can just be frustrating to work with, pretty much makes him the Vegeta of SC2 (and this is a compliment).
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
I told you I wasn't arguing with you anymore. About the bolded part: you cannot be serious.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
I like it! I think Zealously wrote a great article about what makes Naniwa tick.
For the people showing the hype video and complaining that Zealously used examples from 2011... that interview that is used in a voice over is from sometime in early 2012 (or even 2011).
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/QSw7qxI)
