No player in Starcraft II is as polarizing as NaNiwa. Not even Idra and Stephano, for all the dramatic headlines they produced, could divide the fans between love and hate like the Swedish Protoss.
Balance whining, excuse-making, and yelling inappropriate comments toward players and organizations is a shared trait of many progamers, but where it might make a different progamer endearing, it's what alienates NaNiwa from a large subset of fans. The difference is that NaNiwa's outbursts don't come with a nudge and a wink, an implicit understanding that this is all for entertainment, it's all for esports, and he's in it together with us as part of this greater endeavor.
No, NaNiwa is the true esports outsider, the man who plays solely for himself. That is not to say he's not grateful for support, but he has never been one to play for his fans. He plays so he can win and be the best in the world, and he is completely unapologetic about how everything else is totally insignificant compared to that goal. Playing good games for the sake of entertaining spectators is out of the question, and the thought apologising for playing a certain way would never in a million years appear in Naniwa's head. He plays solely to win, and his burning passion for victory can be a curse, perhaps more often than not. To Johan Lucchesi, Starcraft II is more than a game, more than a career, it's a fundamental part of who he is. Even his fans dislike his flaws - they are just the ones who find more to respect than to hate.
The byproduct of NaNiwa's approach is that nothing short of winning is satisfactory, both for himself and for the public. Famously, NaNiwa felt merely "okay" upon winning the semifinals in MLG Dallas, because his true goal lay ahead in the finals and at MLG Providence. By those standards, you can see why the worst of NaNiwa comes out when he is losing to continental Zergs in the Challenger League.
When NaNiwa is winning, the fans love him as one of the few foreigner hopes. By taking second second place at MLG Providence 2011 against some of the best players in the world, he was hailed as the hero who would fight the Korean invasion.
When NaNiwa is losing, he is quickly thrown under the bus. After playing poorly in the Blizzard Cup and probe rushing Nestea in a pointless group stage game, players, fans, and organizations called for his head (GomTV decided to take it). He was the villain, representing everything wrong about esports.
It doesn't matter to NaNiwa if he is a hero or a villain. All that matters is if he is a winner or a loser.
******
Naniwa, much like fellow Blizzcon attendee Mvp, knows that mind games play a significant role in Starcraft II, and that playing fair is overrated. Playing quick and dirty is and has always been a trademark – from the frequent and deadly 4gates at MLG Dallas 2011 to a clutch proxy 2gate in New York more than two years later, Naniwa's desire to win is and has always been reflected in his play. There is none of the ”honorable” play so many players fall victim to – he'll do what works, and he'll win with it. If that means consecutive cheeses or extremely greedy openings, he'll do it if it helps him win. His high-risk style doesn't make him any friends and it certainly does build upon the idea that Protoss is an gimmicky and cheesy race, but the success he has had with his ”victory at all costs” approach to the game cannot be denied. It suits him, and there are few players with an attitude better suited for playing with such a style than Naniwa. At a tournament like Blizzcon, where the competition could hardly be any tougher, perhaps such an approach is the best.
Another thing going NaNiwa's way in the face of such competition is that he always plays up to the occasion. The flipside is that he sometimes plays down to the occasion as well, losing to players he has no business losing to, but there is no one at Blizzcon who he would be underestimating. These are opponents that can bring out NaNiwa's highest level of play, a level that can topple even GSL champions.
The tournament will be difficult, but the position of the underdog may be the one that suits NaNiwa best. He is recognized as threat, but not the first one others will prepare for. This allows his fantastic preparation to shine and allows him to bring to the table what no one else has seen and no one else has prepared for. It doesn't matter if you're an uncelebrated EG Zerg or a Tyrant with a legacy as a champion stretching all the way back to Brood War, Naniwa is the kind of player who will defeat you one way or another. The higher the stakes, the better the play. And there is no more high-stakes tournament than Blizzcon.
This is MLG Providence all over again. The tournament that all other tournaments have led to, the ultimate goal at the end of the year. This is the tournament where all the odds are stacked against NaNiwa, where no reasonable person would believe in him to win the championship. Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.
As much as I find Naniwa the most obnoxious player his skill is undeniable. As the great Dear said 'Naniwa has skill equal to that of Koreans'. Was initially hoping SK would stomp him but now I'm not so sure.
I seriously find so much negativity in the last couple of articles: MC, EG.Alive, now NaNiwa... but regardless (i expected better from TL...) NaNiwa fighting! The one foreigner to stand his ground against this Korean invasion!
On November 08 2013 15:31 Snijjer wrote: And Polt will be the last one.
So many players I like at this tournament its gonna be hard to root for anyone, or to chose 'favorites'.
Yeah I agree, the only players who are undeserving there are alive and deokduck. So if they lose nobody actually cares at all. But it will suck to see anyone else lose. For example, jd vs mvp or maru vs mc? How the fuck is anyone supposed to just pick one of them?
On November 08 2013 15:31 Snijjer wrote: And Polt will be the last one.
So many players I like at this tournament its gonna be hard to root for anyone, or to chose 'favorites'.
Yeah I agree, the only players who are undeserving there are alive and deokduck. So if they lose nobody actually cares at all. But it will suck to see anyone else lose. For example, jd vs mvp or maru vs mc? How the fuck is anyone supposed to just pick one of them?
Leaving aLive's case aside, saying deokduck is undeserving after winning a season of WCS Europe is a bit of a stretch. Doesn't matter if anyone cares if he loses or not.
Interestingly enough, Naniwa, who I thought I would never warm up to after the probe rush vs Nestea, and his defeat of the Dong, has started to grow on me a little. When he's not playing someone I root for, I root for him. Seeing his games in IEM gave me the feeling that he put on a great show, I have no doubt he will give Soulkey a fight.
Naniwa, best of luck vs Soulkey! I would like more zergs in the tournament, but I can settle for just the Dong :D
On November 08 2013 16:02 Advantageous wrote: I seriously find so much negativity in the last couple of articles: MC, EG.Alive, now NaNiwa... but regardless (i expected better from TL...) NaNiwa fighting! The one foreigner to stand his ground against this Korean invasion!
Or come on. Its not like nani is white and fluffy. He deserves it
On November 08 2013 15:31 Snijjer wrote: And Polt will be the last one.
There is only one who can bring the levels of hype needed for the final article. One who looks upon Polt with nothing but the purest admiration, who can turn the trials of a veteran pro gamer into a tale of such riviting magnitude that chills go down your spine.
On November 08 2013 16:28 Fizzy wrote: Dont know why, but i get the feeling that the writer does not like naniwa. This kind of ruins it for me eventho there are alot of valid points.
On November 08 2013 16:10 SorrowShine wrote: Two best articles are Naniwa and Duckdeok. And btw I wanna see Naniwa demolished so hard. I am gonna enjoy his suffering.
You enjoy people's suffering? You seem like a swell guy.
First of all again: you guys are writing fantastic articles at the moment! As somebody who nearly every week has to at least produce one or two professional texts, I can appreciate your work a lot. Its not an easy thing to do.
Second: I am rooting for JD, but Nani comes defenitly second place and I really think that the last weeks showed, that he improved his "Fan-Skills" and found some (maybe fragile) balance in himself.
Balance whining, excuse-making, and yelling inappropriate comments toward players and organizations is a shared trait of many progamers, but where it might make a different progamer endearing
Well... with the benefit of the ability to look back, one could really say is unlike say the TL writing staff Nani was calling the poor balance of the game for what it is.
A deep run here and he clearly and obviously takes the title from a metagame blessed Stephano for the best foreigner ever.
On November 08 2013 15:31 Snijjer wrote: And Polt will be the last one.
There is only one who can bring the levels of hype needed for the final article. One who looks upon Polt with nothing but the purest admiration, who can turn the trials of a veteran pro gamer into a tale of such riviting magnitude that chills go down your spine.
On November 08 2013 16:28 Fizzy wrote: Dont know why, but i get the feeling that the writer does not like naniwa. This kind of ruins it for me eventho there are alot of valid points.
You are wrong. But hey, at least Swedes are no longer automatically seen as biased Nani fans. PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE
I like how this article isn't about how he is the only non korean, but about how he is a good protoss player. Sick of all that foreigner hope and all that, this tournament is about 16 individual players battling for the greatest title in the game. They dont represent any nationalities. Another good feature article! :D
On November 08 2013 16:53 mnck wrote: I like how this article isn't about how he is the only non korean, but about how he is a good protoss player. Sick of all that foreigner hope and all that, this tournament is about 16 individual players battling for the greatest title in the game. They dont represent any nationalities. Another good feature article! :D
On November 08 2013 16:53 mnck wrote: I like how this article isn't about how he is the only non korean, but about how he is a good protoss player. Sick of all that foreigner hope and all that, this tournament is about 16 individual players battling for the greatest title in the game. They dont represent any nationalities. Another good feature article! :D
I still remember when Naniwa opened his own stream thread and its there where I saw "It doesn't matter to NaNiwa if he is a hero or a villain. All that matters is if he is a winner or a loser." the article is referring to appeared to me first.
I hope NaNiwa does well, I believe he has the potential to win but everyone knows that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Regardless, I'll be cheering for him against Soulkey.
Insightful article that portrays and expands very well on how I view Naniwa. I don't think there was any real negativity either, MC/Alive's I could agree didn't leave me with a very enthusiastic feeling.
On November 08 2013 16:53 mnck wrote: I like how this article isn't about how he is the only non korean, but about how he is a good protoss player. Sick of all that foreigner hope and all that, this tournament is about 16 individual players battling for the greatest title in the game. They dont represent any nationalities. Another good feature article! :D
Hey, don't steal our thunder! Naniwa is representing Sweden
On November 08 2013 16:28 Fizzy wrote: Dont know why, but i get the feeling that the writer does not like naniwa. This kind of ruins it for me eventho there are alot of valid points.
You are wrong. But hey, at least Swedes are no longer automatically seen as biased Nani fans. PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE
No, Fizzy's got a point. Sure, your last section highlighted his potential, but you can definitely can be less negative with your description. Calling him an "eSport outsider" is a bit harsh. Hell, even Jaedong can be considered to be an "outsider" by your definition because you can tell that he plays to win and does not care about the fan support he gets, as seen from his interviews (not that I have a problem with that).
Yeah, you nailed the "winner mentality" perfectly, but you got to realize how many professional players are like that in real sports. People like NaNiwa create the drama that sports go through, and that just shows how much eSports has matured into an actual sport!
Finally, NaNiwa's journey shows a lot of growth as a progamer. Sure, he can be a dick, but he has gone a long way from your average raging chessy Protoss player who cannot settle on a team to a person who can prepare himself very well for the gauntlet against the Koreans. Even, his chances in BlizzCon highlights NaNiwa as a character. He will fight to the bitter end to increase his odds.
I am not a NaNiwa fan boy because I agree with what a lot of this article said, but at the same time, it doesn't do justice when you forget about the other important factors that defines NaNiwa as a very complex character.
No offense, but I think this article, unlike your previous articles, could have been much better.
On November 08 2013 16:53 mnck wrote: I like how this article isn't about how he is the only non korean, but about how he is a good protoss player. Sick of all that foreigner hope and all that, this tournament is about 16 individual players battling for the greatest title in the game. They dont represent any nationalities. Another good feature article! :D
While well written, I would have hoped the article would have touch more on the strengths of Naniwa and why he is such a strong contender, because it's not really all about playing risky builds I feel. I would mainly attribute his skill to three things:
Timing Knowledge Naniwa's builds are setup to take timings into huge account. He knows when enemy timings hit, and prepares his builds with that in mind. It's kind of a blind scouting. It can obviously be exploited by a tricky mindgamey opponent, but it has served Naniwa well in the past. Day[9] did an excellent daily on it here.
Adaptation This is something that Naniwa himself mentions as one of his main strengths whenever asked in interviews. He keeps his mind and play open to change, depending on what he sees from his opponents, and his gameplan seems very broad in this sense. It's like he has different things planned depending on what the opponent does at different points in the game, a branching tree of different tactics.
Mechanics Obviously Naniwa is very skilled with his force fields and blink micro. You only need to look at his last two matches to see proof of it. (vs Revival / vs Life).
Nice article, thank you! I see a lot more similarities with Idra than the article though. Both have a difficult personality (in public), anger problems and deeply polarize(d) the community. Difference is only that Naniwa usually bashes his opponents only when losing, while Idra was a jerk both in winning and losing.
As much I as dislike Naniwa, one thing is for certain. He puts in the work.
It is a shame that Naniwa and Idra had to be such "divas" of eSports. If they could control their "jackass" behavior they could have been Stephano class type players.
It is such a shame that their hard work is off-set by their unwillingness to be professional when it is mandatory.
On November 08 2013 17:56 DarkLordOlli wrote: Honestly Naniwa has nothing on most of these players mechanically but he's very very smart. That's what makes him so good.
Naniwa has really good mechanics, I've watched a lot of Protoss stream and he's better than a lot of Korean toss
On November 08 2013 18:04 TaishiCi wrote: As much I as dislike Naniwa, one thing is for certain. He puts in the work.
It is a shame that Naniwa and Idra had to be such "divas" of eSports. If they could control their "jackass" behavior they could have been Stephano class type players.
It is such a shame that their hard work is off-set by their unwillingness to be professional when it is mandatory.
I find this funny because Stephano was a real diva himself, just in a different way
On November 08 2013 18:04 TaishiCi wrote: As much I as dislike Naniwa, one thing is for certain. He puts in the work.
It is a shame that Naniwa and Idra had to be such "divas" of eSports. If they could control their "jackass" behavior they could have been Stephano class type players.
It is such a shame that their hard work is off-set by their unwillingness to be professional when it is mandatory.
I find this funny because Stephano was a real diva himself, just in a different way
Stephano had a charming personality but a spoiled work ethic while NaNiwa has inspirational dedication to the game but acts like a spoiled child. See the difference?
On November 08 2013 18:04 TaishiCi wrote: As much I as dislike Naniwa, one thing is for certain. He puts in the work.
It is a shame that Naniwa and Idra had to be such "divas" of eSports. If they could control their "jackass" behavior they could have been Stephano class type players.
It is such a shame that their hard work is off-set by their unwillingness to be professional when it is mandatory.
I find this funny because Stephano was a real diva himself, just in a different way
Stephano had a charming personality but a spoiled work ethic while NaNiwa has inspirational dedication to the game but acts like a spoiled child. See the difference?
Why did Stephano have a "spoiled work ethic". He got the job done, don't know what else he should have done.
It's rather that a lot of Koreans have a spoiled workethic. They'd be even better if they treated topplayers like other countries treat their topsportsman.
Love this article. Neither smooth nor hysterical. Just as gloomy, faitful and bittersweet as the atmoshpere the last couple of days counting down for it to begin.
Naniwa either looses to any fantastic player and get a new chance at Dreamhack soon...or he makes it to the final and creates the defining starcraft2 tournament for a long time to come................
I think most people expected something very great when waiting for the NaNiwa preview. Unfortunately I have to say that what this one lacks most is quality and an interesting red line.
On November 08 2013 18:22 pms wrote: This article is very shitty...
Could you elaborate?
It's very sharply cut, repeating the mantra of Naniwa wanting ”victory at all costs”. This connects to very negative concepts and feelings, such as, you know, even killing people for the greed.
And Naniwa does not play for the greed. He plays to win, because he loves this games. This means, that as much as he loves this game, he will go for ”victory at all costs”, but this does not mean that he will cross all moral borders to do so, because his endeavors are not based on the greed.
This is just my understanding. This article is too sharp and one-sided, painting very cruel picture of Naniwa, that's why I think this article is really bad.
On November 08 2013 18:51 ThePlagueJG wrote: The only thing that is really bothering me is that NaNi haven't got a title for himself.
There are so many things missing in this article. I don't even know how it got out :D (I guess in a big rush.)
Naniwa is the only player who didn't get the title in the "Road to Blizconn" series, and all other 15 players did get the titles... It seems like this has been done intentionally. Maybe there is something coming that we don't know about yet? No idea, this is a really strange article...
On November 08 2013 18:51 ThePlagueJG wrote: The only thing that is really bothering me is that NaNi haven't got a title for himself.
There are so many things missing in this article. I don't even know how it got out :D (I guess in a big rush.)
Naniwa is the only player who didn't get the title in the "Road to Blizconn" series, and all other 15 players did get the titles... It seems like this has been done intentionally. Maybe there is something coming that we don't know about yet? No idea, this is a really strange article...
Maybe you are right, but I really dont want to blame the writer too much, he is usually writing amazing articles, but this one is a little lacking, but hey it is no problem for me.
On November 08 2013 18:51 ThePlagueJG wrote: The only thing that is really bothering me is that NaNi haven't got a title for himself.
There are so many things missing in this article. I don't even know how it got out :D (I guess in a big rush.)
Naniwa is the only player who didn't get the title in the "Road to Blizconn" series, and all other 15 players did get the titles... It seems like this has been done intentionally. Maybe there is something coming that we don't know about yet? No idea, this is a really strange article...
Maybe you are right, but I really dont want to blame the writer too much, he is usually writing amazing articles, but this one is a little lacking, but hey it is no problem for me.
On November 08 2013 18:51 ThePlagueJG wrote: The only thing that is really bothering me is that NaNi haven't got a title for himself.
There are so many things missing in this article. I don't even know how it got out :D (I guess in a big rush.)
Naniwa is the only player who didn't get the title in the "Road to Blizconn" series, and all other 15 players did get the titles... It seems like this has been done intentionally. Maybe there is something coming that we don't know about yet? No idea, this is a really strange article...
Maybe you are right, but I really dont want to blame the writer too much, he is usually writing amazing articles, but this one is a little lacking, but hey it is no problem for me.
On November 08 2013 18:51 ThePlagueJG wrote: The only thing that is really bothering me is that NaNi haven't got a title for himself.
There are so many things missing in this article. I don't even know how it got out :D (I guess in a big rush.)
Naniwa is the only player who didn't get the title in the "Road to Blizconn" series, and all other 15 players did get the titles... It seems like this has been done intentionally. Maybe there is something coming that we don't know about yet? No idea, this is a really strange article...
Maybe you are right, but I really dont want to blame the writer too much, he is usually writing amazing articles, but this one is a little lacking, but hey it is no problem for me.
Naniwa is the only player without title. Not a big deal. But why?
Anyway, I know Zealously usually does a great job. I'm just wondering, what the hell is going on here?
I really doubt there's some great conspiracy at play here, the writers were rushed to finish these as far away from the tournament start time as possible and It's not as good as it could be.
I usually have huge respect for TL articles but this one is very poorly written. So many inaccuracies and terrible analysis. The author clearly has no clue who Naniwa is or what his playstyle is like. Sad to see TL drop this low in terms of quality...
On November 08 2013 18:22 pms wrote: This article is very shitty...
+1 this article is very bad.
It only talks about personality and only mentions his constant achievements in a site note... Sorry but this article is a huge fail, compared to the others.
I don't want to read some BS about cheesy protoss and nanis personality. Also is this all nonsense like it was written from "The Sun". Naniwa isn't only the bad player and he doesn't only play to win. He plays because starcraft is his passion, and you can't have passion for something if you only play to win.
Anyway... the article should have focused on the road he had to walk to get this far from a tournament point...
On November 08 2013 18:51 ThePlagueJG wrote: The only thing that is really bothering me is that NaNi haven't got a title for himself.
There are so many things missing in this article. I don't even know how it got out :D (I guess in a big rush.)
Naniwa is the only player who didn't get the title in the "Road to Blizconn" series, and all other 15 players did get the titles... It seems like this has been done intentionally. Maybe there is something coming that we don't know about yet? No idea, this is a really strange article...
On November 08 2013 18:22 pms wrote: This article is very shitty...
+1 this article is very bad.
It only talks about personality and only mentions his constant achievements in a site note... Sorry but this article is a huge fail, compared to the others.
I don't want to read some BS about cheesy protoss and nanis personality. Also is this all nonsense like it was written from "The Sun". Naniwa isn't only the bad player and he doesn't only play to win. He plays because starcraft is his passion, and you can't have passion for something if you only play to win.
Anyway... the article should have focused on the road he had to walk to get this far from a tournament point...
very bad
You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
On November 08 2013 19:08 Nonnar wrote: I usually have huge respect for TL articles but this one is very poorly written. So many inaccuracies and terrible analysis. The author clearly has no clue who Naniwa is or what his playstyle is like. Sad to see TL drop this low in terms of quality...
I have the same feeling. It seems to me that the author just doesn't know much about Naniwa...
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it. Not every article is written the same way nor should they be.
PSA: not agreeing with the chosen perspective to preview a player does not mean the article is poorly written. It means you have a different opinion.
We could have had the same boring "This is why X should win blizzcon!"-theme for every player but we chose to find a compelling perspective on each player that's different from the others. Naturally not everything will be covered perfectly.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I think you've got something wrong here. We decided to do this so you guys could enjoy a certain perspective for each of these players going into Blizzcon, proposing a certain perspective/storyline to them that we worked out. Zealously covered 3 different players. If you wanted the preview series to address the same points for each player then sorry but this isn't for you. We chose a different route. Journalism ethics has absolutely nothing to do with it.
On November 08 2013 19:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: I think you've got something wrong here. We decided to do this so you guys could enjoy it. Zealously covered 3 different players. If you wanted the preview series to address the same points for each player then sorry but this isn't for you. We chose a different route. Journalism ethics has absolutely nothing to do with it.
On November 08 2013 19:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: I think you've got something wrong here. We decided to do this so you guys could enjoy it. Zealously covered 3 different players. If you wanted the preview series to address the same points for each player then sorry but this isn't for you. We chose a different route. Journalism ethics has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
On November 08 2013 19:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: I think you've got something wrong here. We decided to do this so you guys could enjoy it. Zealously covered 3 different players. If you wanted the preview series to address the same points for each player then sorry but this isn't for you. We chose a different route. Journalism ethics has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It doesn't? Think about it twice.
bloody hell stop being so insufferable
Look, I know that we are a small community, so we have to keep all together. All what I'm saying, is that even as a small community, we should have standards. In the end, TL is the main text content creator for SC2. And we all care about it.
On November 08 2013 19:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: I think you've got something wrong here. We decided to do this so you guys could enjoy it. Zealously covered 3 different players. If you wanted the preview series to address the same points for each player then sorry but this isn't for you. We chose a different route. Journalism ethics has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It doesn't? Think about it twice.
bloody hell stop being so insufferable
Look, I know that we are a small community, so we have to keep all together. All what I'm saying, is that even as a small community, we should have standards. In the end, TL is the main content creator for SC2. And we all care about it.
you're just as biased as the writer, likely more so
if you can do better, then do it, otherwise stop complaining as much as you are
On November 08 2013 19:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: I think you've got something wrong here. We decided to do this so you guys could enjoy it. Zealously covered 3 different players. If you wanted the preview series to address the same points for each player then sorry but this isn't for you. We chose a different route. Journalism ethics has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It doesn't? Think about it twice.
bloody hell stop being so insufferable
Look, I know that we are a small community, so we have to keep all together. All what I'm saying, is that even as a small community, we should have standards. In the end, TL is the main content creator for SC2. And we all care about it.
How about this standard: Zealously doesn't get paid to write these articles. He does it purely because he likes giving something to the community. If the standard is shitting on everything passionate people do then count me out as well.
hmmm, i think it's a very bold statement, that nani is more polarizing than idra was, to say the very least. other than that great write up, so hyped!!! Go nani!
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
The bolded part shows you stating your opinion and declaring it as facts. There's no point in arguing with someone like you then.
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
-presenting opinion as fact -insulting your adversaries -jumping to conclusions
On November 08 2013 19:41 Dodgin wrote: I think your criticism is fine for the record, I mean where the hell is the title!? Naniwa - The Dragon Slayer come on man give me that
I like that title. Its sounds good and its true. Go nani!
An underwelming article, i don't feel any hype at all, and there was no real knowledge ( like the different builds), or story told ( like the finals where power went out).
This one was OK. I hoped the naniwa article would give me as much chills as MVPs or JD's. Oh well, i'm still hyped for blizzcon so it's okay.
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
Yes, because the key to good journalism is to say "in my opinion" or "I think" every time you express an opinion. Here, I've re-written the first couple of paragraphs to suit your wants and needs:
In my opinion, no player in Starcraft II is as polarizing as (P)NaNiwa. I don't think that even Idra and Stephano, for all the dramatic headlines they produced, could divide the fans between love and hate like the Swedish Protoss.
Balance whining, excuse-making, and yelling inappropriate comments toward players and organizations is a shared trait of many progamers in my opinion, but where I think it might make a different progamer endearing, I feel that it's what alienates NaNiwa from a large subset of fans. In my opinion, the difference is that NaNiwa's outbursts don't come with a nudge and a wink, an implicit understanding that this is all for entertainment, it's all for esports, and he's in it together with us as part of this greater endeavor.
Wow, that was so much better. Good thing I added those parts in at every possible turn to make sure that you know he's only expressing his opinion, and doesn't believe that everything he says is absolute fact.
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
The bolded part shows you stating your opinion and declaring it as facts. There's no point in arguing with someone like you then.
Hehe, so you tell me that if I have my favorite player/political party/community then I will never produce a non-biased article about it?
That's a bit sad, because what's the point of avoiding bias then? Is there one DarkLordOlli?
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
The bolded part shows you stating your opinion and declaring it as facts. There's no point in arguing with someone like you then.
Hehe, so you tell me that if I have my favorite player/political party/community then I will never produce a non-biased article about it?
That's a bit sad, because what's the point of avoiding bias then? Is there one DarkLordOlli?
I'm telling you that your opinion is biased and is not a fact. But you say that it is a fact. Your arguments are terrible. That's the point here.
Your criticism of giving a certain perspective about a player is valid - and that's where it ends.
On November 08 2013 19:48 Dodgin wrote: Some more ideas for titles:
Naniwa - The Token White Guy Naniw[A] - Not An Evil Genius
Naniwa - The Foreigner
original i know right
Hate Me or Love Me, It's Still an Obsession: [A]Naniwa
I really like this one!
Yeah, but imagine if instead of riffing and having fun, occasionally contributing and maybe putting my hand up for the next one, I just came in and was shitty about other peoples writing. How much better would that be.
On November 08 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote: Let's face it, you're a giant Naniwa fanboy and you wanted something else. Now you're dissatisfied. That's unfortunate but this article was not made to please Naniwa fanboys. It was to give a certain perspective on Naniwa.
Have you never seen a columnist express their opinion? I think you're heavily mistaking this for an objective series of reports. It's a series of hype previews made to give an interesting (and different!) perspective on each of these players.
Not absolutely everything Naniwa has ever said or done has to be included in something like this.
Well, I am a giant Naniwa fanboy.
And this article is biased and plain bad.
The facts.
And to answer you: Yes, a columnist can express his opinion. Does Zealously use forms like "I think", "In my opinion", whatever other forms that are appropriate for the expression of opinion?
-presenting opinion as fact -insulting your adversaries -jumping to conclusions
yep you're the best writer ever
Note that I didn't say "best writer" or "worst writer" about Zealously. You did say it about me. Oh, dear irony.
On November 08 2013 19:48 Dodgin wrote: Some more ideas for titles:
Naniwa - The Token White Guy Naniw[A] - Not An Evil Genius
Naniwa - The Foreigner
original i know right
Hate Me or Love Me, It's Still an Obsession: [A]Naniwa
I really like this one!
Yeah, but imagine if instead of riffing and having fun, occasionally contributing and maybe putting my hand up for the next one, I just came in and was shitty about other peoples writing. How much better would that be.
I'm sorry for liking your contrubution, wont happen again.
*misunderstanding and I overreact so easily APology to Mintie
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
On November 08 2013 19:48 Dodgin wrote: Some more ideas for titles:
Naniwa - The Token White Guy Naniw[A] - Not An Evil Genius
Naniwa - The Foreigner
original i know right
Hate Me or Love Me, It's Still an Obsession: [A]Naniwa
I really like this one!
Yeah, but imagine if instead of riffing and having fun, occasionally contributing and maybe putting my hand up for the next one, I just came in and was shitty about other peoples writing. How much better would that be.
I'm sorry for liking your contrubution, wont happen again.
I don't think that was directed at you, but more in a general sense. I may be wrong though.
It has less hype but it is very professionally written and shows valid points and one might argue that it portraits a good picture of naniwa and even shows him as having a fighting chance (which I doubt). Now compare this to MC's article... who has accomplished so much more and actually is funny and cares about his fans... and shows much more interesting, impressive games...
All articles are short and are missing vital points, but that's ok - they don't have to tell the complete story.
I think this article was fitting - well written and mostly to the point, while still making you want root for naniwa a little bit.
It makes sense to reflect a player's accomplishments and his recent performances in how much hype an article contains. And Naniwa is still a bit lacking there, even though it seems he has been in good form lately. Let's see how he fares against Soulkey...
On November 08 2013 19:48 Dodgin wrote: Some more ideas for titles:
Naniwa - The Token White Guy Naniw[A] - Not An Evil Genius
Naniwa - The Foreigner
original i know right
Hate Me or Love Me, It's Still an Obsession: [A]Naniwa
I really like this one!
Yeah, but imagine if instead of riffing and having fun, occasionally contributing and maybe putting my hand up for the next one, I just came in and was shitty about other peoples writing. How much better would that be.
I'm sorry for liking your contrubution, wont happen again.
I don't think that was directed at you, but more in a general sense. I may be wrong though.
I know that, I never even said anything bad about the article though, just that a title would be cool <_<
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
It's my opinion that this article is an example of bad journalism, based on the above arguments.
Now, which of these specific arguments are terrible?
All of them except possibly the first one, as I briefly explained above.
Haha, ok. In the end, I'm at work and don't have time to ask you for each single argument "why do you think this argument is terrible?", just to hear from you "because you are a giant fan of Naniwa".
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
It's my opinion that this article is an example of bad journalism, based on the above arguments.
Now, which of these specific arguments are terrible?
All of them except possibly the first one, as I briefly explained above.
Haha, ok. In the end, I'm at work and don't have time to ask you for each single argument "why do you think this argument is terrible?", just to hear from you "because you are a giant fan of Naniwa".
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
It's my opinion that this article is an example of bad journalism, based on the above arguments.
Now, which of these specific arguments are terrible?
All of them except possibly the first one, as I briefly explained above.
Haha, ok. In the end, I'm at work and don't have time to ask you for each single argument "why do you think this argument is terrible?", just to hear from you "because you are a giant fan of Naniwa".
It's okay, dude. Why don't you read my article to calm yourself?
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
It's my opinion that this article is an example of bad journalism, based on the above arguments.
Now, which of these specific arguments are terrible?
All of them except possibly the first one, as I briefly explained above.
Haha, ok. In the end, I'm at work and don't have time to ask you for each single argument "why do you think this argument is terrible?", just to hear from you "because you are a giant fan of Naniwa".
It's okay, dude. Why don't you read my article to calm yourself?
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
It's my opinion that this article is an example of bad journalism, based on the above arguments.
Now, which of these specific arguments are terrible?
All of them except possibly the first one, as I briefly explained above.
Haha, ok. In the end, I'm at work and don't have time to ask you for each single argument "why do you think this argument is terrible?", just to hear from you "because you are a giant fan of Naniwa".
Wait I'll help you:
1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa)
A : No it's not. It does not have a title but that may have been a deliberate choice exaclty because the player is so polarizing and gets mad for no reason (just like you?). All articles are different, they don't contain the same content, which "features" is this one missing? Blind fanboy hype?
2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win)
A: All the articles are missing TONS of facts - they are after all short articles, meant as an introduction and for creating hype not as a biography - you just don't notice because you are a naniwa fan and don't care for the other player's.
3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?)
A: Again, same goes for many of the other articles (if you speak about specific matches etc). These articles are introductions for our entertainment not complete player analysis.
4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
A: Why? Because it's not the same level as your bias? Let me write the article and it would be so much worse. Naniwa has a bad character from all that I can see (may be wrong of course but that's what he showed many times), his playstyle can be very interesting but in general is not spectacular. To be honest the only reason many people root for him may well be the fact that he is the last foreigner left, who is performing well. He certainly does not have the level of accomplishments of many of the other players here. His article actually draws a better picture than that of alive for example.
I actually think Soulkey will totally kick his ass - but if he performs well this tournament then maybe next time there will be more reason to hype him.
BTW I also didn't like the MC article because it was too disrespectful for such an accomplished player, but that doesn't mean I hang around the thread all the day, crying how shitty and biased the article is (which it isn't).
On November 08 2013 16:28 Fizzy wrote: Dont know why, but i get the feeling that the writer does not like naniwa. This kind of ruins it for me eventho there are alot of valid points.
You are wrong. But hey, at least Swedes are no longer automatically seen as biased Nani fans. PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE
No, Fizzy's got a point. Sure, your last section highlighted his potential, but you can definitely can be less negative with your description. Calling him an "eSport outsider" is a bit harsh. Hell, even Jaedong can be considered to be an "outsider" by your definition because you can tell that he plays to win and does not care about the fan support he gets, as seen from his interviews (not that I have a problem with that).
You are crazy, JD loves his fans and I've seen him thank them 100x. He stayed extra long for fan signings at WCS season 3 just 2 weeks or so ago.
Anyways, good article, captured nani's polarization of fans and haters quite well.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there were some miracles behind it to make up for NaNiwa's mistakes. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
On November 08 2013 16:28 Fizzy wrote: Dont know why, but i get the feeling that the writer does not like naniwa. This kind of ruins it for me eventho there are alot of valid points.
You are wrong. But hey, at least Swedes are no longer automatically seen as biased Nani fans. PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE
No, Fizzy's got a point. Sure, your last section highlighted his potential, but you can definitely can be less negative with your description. Calling him an "eSport outsider" is a bit harsh. Hell, even Jaedong can be considered to be an "outsider" by your definition because you can tell that he plays to win and does not care about the fan support he gets, as seen from his interviews (not that I have a problem with that).
You are crazy, JD loves his fans and I've seen him thank them 100x. He stayed extra long for fan signings at WCS season 3 just 2 weeks or so ago.
Anyways, good article, captured nani's polarization of fans and haters quite well.
I wanted to reply with the same thing but then I realized he's probably talking about the fact JD isn't sitting in the booth thinking "Damn I would like to 6-pool, but what if people hate me for this?". Like Mvp, MC & Naniwa he just does what he thinks has the highest chance to win. But I agree, outside of the game he's definitely fuelled by all the fan support and enjoys every second of it (:
Regarding Naniwa - there was a hype video in the LR thread where he was basically saying he was well aware of his reputation and it hurt him, but the reason why he didn't want to quit is that he wanted to leave a more positive legacy behind. After hearing such a strong personal statement this article seems to be slightly more distant which is a shame, but it's well-written nonetheless and just another view on what he's like as a player.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
This article would've been fitting 6 months ago, the naniwa of today who thanked the fans again and again at IEM etc. does not fit the description. Bad article.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
*signed
the article ist just bad... it doesn't focus at all on the achievements and on the road naniwa took but solely on some bullshit on 2011... I enjoyed all articles so far... but this one is so bad... man
On November 08 2013 21:21 Snusmumriken wrote: This article would've been fitting 6 months ago, the naniwa of today who thanked the fans again and again at IEM etc. does not fit the description. Bad article.
yepp I am so glad that many on TL forum agree on this one... and btw. you can't ban all the guys that think this article is just bad
and btw. I am not a huge naniwa fan... You can call me fanboy when it comes down to mouz players like HasuObs... but not naniwa.. I just think that the article is bad for numerous reasons.
it didn't focus at all on the road, like I already said, he had take to get to blizcon instead talking about 2011 crap...
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
On November 08 2013 21:21 Snusmumriken wrote: This article would've been fitting 6 months ago, the naniwa of today who thanked the fans again and again at IEM etc. does not fit the description. Bad article.
yepp I am so glad that many on TL forum agree on this one... and btw. you can't ban all the guys that think this article is just bad
and btw. I am not a huge naniwa fan... You can call me fanboy when it comes down to mouz players like HasuObs... but not naniwa.. I just think that the article is bad for numerous reasons.
it didn't focus at all on the road, like I already said, he had take to get to blizcon instead talking about 2011 crap...
All the crap that occurred in 2011 was self-inflicted.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
On November 08 2013 20:03 Zealously wrote: Hey guys imagine if Naniwa wins Blizzcon
I would be drunk somewhere downtown and would probably forget what happened.
Not me, I hate Naniwa
Theirs a huge difference between perspective and Bias, Perspective means how you're writing a article say for example: I'm going to write about MC's SC2 legacy, or I'm going to talk about his controversial playstyle(i'm not talking about personal perspective, i'm talking writer perspective, like style of how something is written) etc. Bias means you have an incline to dictate certain things into your players favor or to make them better then they are.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
Great write-up! I definitely respect Naniwa's desire to always get stronger and prove himself as the best. That, plus the fact he doesn't portray the cuddliest personality and can just be frustrating to work with, pretty much makes him the Vegeta of SC2 (and this is a compliment).
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
I told you I wasn't arguing with you anymore. About the bolded part: you cannot be serious.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
I like it! I think Zealously wrote a great article about what makes Naniwa tick.
For the people showing the hype video and complaining that Zealously used examples from 2011... that interview that is used in a voice over is from sometime in early 2012 (or even 2011).
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
You know you seem offended... you should not be... the thing is that all articles except the one for naniwa try also to focus on the "good" of the person while not leaving the bad habbits out... the naniwa article is mainly focusing on bad habbits. The article above actually reflects on both sides of the coin while, and this is my problem with the original article, talking about his way to blizcon, which also the original article should have been about.
I am by no means a naniwa fanboy, I just want that every player is seen in the same light. You know also taeja has bad habbits.. there is no talk AT ALL about them. He is extremly biased vs. other races and balance etc. etc. Also I want to see the article about Polt... Polt is someone that is extremely BM about other players on the stage... not only naniwa but almost everyone... I wonder if the articles will soley focus on this site of Polt... They should not.. and neither should the original article... It's just bad in every terms of journalism and writing. You should be a bit more objective when writing this stuff... sorry
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
Let's start with everyone hating him, clearly that is not true based on any LR thread for a tournament that he competes in.
Should tournament organisers ban him? That's up to them and it's not my position to say what is best for the business but considering things like the probe rush or writing that MLG was a "fucking joke tournament" while the game screen was being shown to the entire crowd, any other similar occurances could you blame them?
What is the proper punishment?
You are painting me as some kind of authority for how a player show be treated in the entire scene and I don't know why. The only "punishment" I can give to Naniwa is personal, I don't support him simple as that. Anything relating to tournaments or the scene at large is not up to me.
Finally can someone find redemption in my eyes? Of course, they just have to show remorse for their previous actions which Naniwa has not done.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
You know you seem offended... you should not be... the thing is that all articles except the one for naniwa try also to focus on the "good" of the person while not leaving the bad habbits out... the naniwa article is mainly focusing on bad habbits. The article above actually reflects on both sides of the coin while, and this is my problem with the original article, talking about his way to blizcon, which also the original article should have been about.
I am by no means a naniwa fanboy, I just want that every player is seen in the same light. You know also taeja has bad habbits.. there is no talk AT ALL about them. He is extremly biased vs. other races and balance etc. etc. Also I want to see the article about Polt... Polt is someone that is extremely BM about other players on the stage... not only naniwa but almost everyone... I wonder if the articles will soley focus on this site of Polt... They should not.. and neither should the original article... It's just bad in every terms of journalism and writing. You should be a bit more objective when writing this stuff... sorry
MC's article is much worse than this one in terms of tone and focus and if you cannot see the difference between Polt's "BM" and Naniwa's then it hard to discuss this.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
You know you seem offended... you should not be... the thing is that all articles except the one for naniwa try also to focus on the "good" of the person while not leaving the bad habbits out... the naniwa article is mainly focusing on bad habbits. The article above actually reflects on both sides of the coin while, and this is my problem with the original article, talking about his way to blizcon, which also the original article should have been about.
I am by no means a naniwa fanboy, I just want that every player is seen in the same light. You know also taeja has bad habbits.. there is no talk AT ALL about them. He is extremly biased vs. other races and balance etc. etc. Also I want to see the article about Polt... Polt is someone that is extremely BM about other players on the stage... not only naniwa but almost everyone... I wonder if the articles will soley focus on this site of Polt... They should not.. and neither should the original article... It's just bad in every terms of journalism and writing. You should be a bit more objective when writing this stuff... sorry
If you want every player to be seen in the same light then they'd have to be the exact same player. Each of them has a different "thing" that makes them interesting and our articles were supposed to highlight some of those to really differentiate them from the others. Not 100% correctly list everything a player has ever said and done. I don't even see why winning at all cost is considered negative by some. Naniwa has said before that he doesn't feel as happy as a person, overall, when he's not winning. It shows his extreme determination that people admire and respect him for. That's that "thing" that was highlighted and looked at. And I think Zealously did a damn good job.
On November 08 2013 19:14 NovemberstOrm wrote: You can't call the article shit just because the perspective it's written from. The article speaks the truth about how NaNiwa plays.
Perspective? Could you be more specific?
This article is just missing in so many aspects. It's not just "perspective" lol
It's written from the perspective that NaNiwa is a lone wolf, he plays too win, his mentality about the game etc etc. It's not missing any aspects because that's how it was chosen to be written, it could have been written in different ways, just because it's not talking about how glorious NaNiwa is doesn't mean it gives you a right to shit all over it.
This article: 1. Is missing some of the features that other articles have (the title given to each player, but not to Naniwa) 2. Is missing some of the facts about Naniwa (e.g., that he said that SC is his passion and he plays it because of it, not just because he wants to win) 3. Is missing the facts about Naniwa's road to Blizzcon (ironic, isn't it?) 4. Is biased (as you've nicely put it "It's written from a perspective")
I'm just starting to realize more and more how bad this article sucks.
1) It's missing a title. Hokai. 2) Every article is missing facts about players. These guys have been competing, doing and saying things for years. We cannot include everything and you should know that. 3) These articles are not about how they got to Blizzcon. 4) Bias =|= perspective. Perspective is taking an element of Naniwa and writing about it. Which was done. You just didn't like it and that's why you're arguing.
1) We agree on this. 2) Yes, I know, but somehow one should try to prepare a representative selection of the most important facts. 3) The way Naniwa got to Blizzcon illustrates his unstable playstyle and could be easily used here (he got eliminated by weaker players, but then fought his way back be eliminating harder players in harder tournaments) 4) Tell me the difference between bias and perspective then... Your argument would work, if the "perspective" were stated clearly at the beginning of the article and author would emphasize his personal take/perspective on the topic... This has not been done. Btw., in this thread Zealously writes that "he hates Naniwa". Is it true?
On November 08 2013 20:07 Zealously wrote:
On November 08 2013 20:04 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On November 08 2013 20:03 Zealously wrote: Hey guys imagine if Naniwa wins Blizzcon
I would be drunk somewhere downtown and would probably forget what happened.
Not me, I hate Naniwa
I told you I wasn't arguing with you anymore. About the bolded part: you cannot be serious.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
You know you seem offended... you should not be... the thing is that all articles except the one for naniwa try also to focus on the "good" of the person while not leaving the bad habbits out... the naniwa article is mainly focusing on bad habbits. The article above actually reflects on both sides of the coin while, and this is my problem with the original article, talking about his way to blizcon, which also the original article should have been about.
I am by no means a naniwa fanboy, I just want that every player is seen in the same light. You know also taeja has bad habbits.. there is no talk AT ALL about them. He is extremly biased vs. other races and balance etc. etc. Also I want to see the article about Polt... Polt is someone that is extremely BM about other players on the stage... not only naniwa but almost everyone... I wonder if the articles will soley focus on this site of Polt... They should not.. and neither should the original article... It's just bad in every terms of journalism and writing. You should be a bit more objective when writing this stuff... sorry
If you want every player to be seen in the same light then they'd have to be the exact same player. Each of them has a different "thing" that makes them interesting and our articles were supposed to highlight some of those to really differentiate them from the others. Not 100% correctly list everything a player has ever said and done. I don't even see why winning at all cost is considered negative by some. Naniwa has said before that he doesn't feel as happy as a person, overall, when he's not winning. It shows his extreme determination that people admire and respect him for. That's that "thing" that was highlighted and looked at. And I think Zealously did a damn good job.
... what exactly don't you undestand about the fact that the purpose of the article was to write: The way to blizcon... while exactly this topic was not mentioned at all... There was in no way explained how he got there... so in school terms: "missed the point of the task given"
anyway.... in general I am a huge fan of tl articles. I enjoy reading them etc. But this one... And I am as you can can clearly see am not the only one that sees it this way.. think that the article is bad... It seems like written out of memory in a fast pace not focusing on the task given.. which was: explain what exactly he had to do to get to the 2013!!!! blizcon... not 2011 of course you can talk about 2011, 2012.. but the main task... was to talk about his way to THIS blizcon.
the differences to the second article that was written by hansonslee is just better researched and written in every aspect, because it focused on the task while not leaving out the same stuff as the original article
In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
On November 08 2013 22:04 MuMeise wrote: ... what exactly don't you undestand about the fact that the purpose of the article was to write: The way to blizcon... while exactly this topic was not mentioned at all... There was in no way explained how he got there... so in school terms: "missed the point of the task given"
I never saw it as the players way to Blizzcon, but our way to Blizzcon. We on teamliquid are together on that road to the convention with is highly anticipated and during that way someone on the vehicle tells a brief story about one of the player. Opinions among the thousands are ofc spread and that shows how each single one takes the story of the tellers who are ofc biased themself.
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote: In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
Let's start with everyone hating him, clearly that is not true based on any LR thread for a tournament that he competes in.
Should tournament organisers ban him? That's up to them and it's not my position to say what is best for the business but considering things like the probe rush or writing that MLG was a "fucking joke tournament" while the game screen was being shown to the entire crowd, any other similar occurances could you blame them?
What is the proper punishment?
You are painting me as some kind of authority for how a player show be treated in the entire scene and I don't know why. The only "punishment" I can give to Naniwa is personal, I don't support him simple as that. Anything relating to tournaments or the scene at large is not up to me.
Finally can someone find redemption in my eyes? Of course, they just have to show remorse for their previous actions which Naniwa has not done.
Your eyes seem to be very clouded by your own rightousness since you disregard his own words. I think it's hard for anyone to find redemption in your eyes. Personally I think Naniwa has shown many times during the last years that he strives to be better than his past. Step by step he is becoming more like a professional athlete even tho he has occational lapses.
But it's good to know where someone like you stands. You have a lot of opinions you like to share about Naniwa but you don't want to stand for them. Instead you hide behind excuses like stating you're not a authority figure etc when having to explain what you really think you're opinions should result in if everyone adopted them.
I'm dying to hear your opinion about Taeja and Polt now.. they should also be punished severely I take it?
I'm cheering for all Protoss in this tournament and also for Naniwa, I expect him to either pull a good one and defeat snipe Soulkey, or to make him work really hard for his win.
Now, about the whole hype and debate about the article itself:
I think it's a good article, it may not be a Pulitzer prize piece or the most important chapter on the holy book of Naniwa, but it does its job well (I also like the one made by another member of the community, posted on this same thread).
I think we see a lot of fans and non-fans subscribing to the idea: 'Naniwa has changed for the better, he plays because he loves the game AND because he likes to win'. Well, i'd argue that this point remains to be seen. I don't believe he has completely changed his personality in 6 months. I believe personality takes waaaay more time to change than that, but i can see through the youtube clip that, at least, he acknowledges he needs to change his attitude and is trying to improve his image.
Last, but not least, I want to make one suggestion to Zealously, DarkLolli and all the guys writing these texts. Would you guys write an aftermath text for each player after blizzcon? It wouldn't have to be immediately after blizzcon, but it would be very nice to see how the tournament affected each one of the players.
After all, luck or not, these are the 16 best players in the world as recognized by blizzard's system =).
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote: In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
No, leverage good and bad. Not just bad.
What I saw:
'Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.' Is this conclusion to the article that summarises everything anywhere near negative?
'He cares only about the game (paraphrased)' Urm you want to know who cares only about the game? Absolutely most of the so called 'emotionless' Koreans now reigning at the top of the chart. When they play, what they are focused on is the beauty of the game and how it plays out, and that's how they are enthralled, and that's what makes them champions. Teamliquid is describing Naniwa as having a characteristics of a champion.
I feel like if people would get pass the knee jerk reaction of 'oh no this is the only true foreigner in Blizzcon he must be hyped to a demigod status write only good things about him please' you will see that not only is this article very true about Naniwa, it is actually making an incredibly strong good statement about him - He is, at heart, a Champion who does not give a fuck about how you view him.
And also, judging from how Naniwa is easily thrown under everyone's feet when he is not being the foreigner flag carrier we can also deduce that people do not like him as a person. They like him as an abstraction of their hopes. This abstraction could be anybody - Scarlett, TLO, a dog - what people care about is the flag carrier and the flag carrier itself, not the human behind it. And this is the result of Nani not reaching out to his fans enough.
On November 08 2013 22:14 Muffloe wrote: I don't really think the article is bad, although I think it would better for the tournament if we hyped the foriegner alittle more. Thats about all.
Somewhere i got the feeling that is exactly what they tried to avoid. "Yea, this person has a different skin color then the rest, hype!".
On November 08 2013 20:44 coloursheep wrote: [quote]
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it.
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
Let's start with everyone hating him, clearly that is not true based on any LR thread for a tournament that he competes in.
Should tournament organisers ban him? That's up to them and it's not my position to say what is best for the business but considering things like the probe rush or writing that MLG was a "fucking joke tournament" while the game screen was being shown to the entire crowd, any other similar occurances could you blame them?
What is the proper punishment?
You are painting me as some kind of authority for how a player show be treated in the entire scene and I don't know why. The only "punishment" I can give to Naniwa is personal, I don't support him simple as that. Anything relating to tournaments or the scene at large is not up to me.
Finally can someone find redemption in my eyes? Of course, they just have to show remorse for their previous actions which Naniwa has not done.
Your eyes seem to be very clouded by your own rightousness since you disregard his own words. I think it's hard for anyone to find redemption in your eyes. Personally I think Naniwa has shown many times during the last years that he strives to be better than his past. Step by step he is becoming more like a professional athlete even tho he has occational lapses.
But it's good to know where someone like you stands. You have a lot of opinions you like to share about Naniwa but you don't want to stand for them. Instead you hide behind excuses like stating you're not a authority figure etc when having to explain what you really think you're opinions should result in if everyone adopted them.
I'm dying to hear your opinion about Taeja and Polt now.. they should also be punished severely I take it?
My opinion is based on everything Naniwa has done since entering the scene. You say I disregard his own words, maybe I have not scene the interviews you are talking about, I would be happy to read anything you post from him.
I stand for my opinions by not supporting Naniwa, as a fan of the game that is all I am required to do, anything else is irrelevant.
I also stand for players respecting other players, the game, the tournament organisers and the fans. I have not seen Polt or Taeja doing anything close to the many things Naniwa has done, again if you want to show me something I may have missed that might change my opinion on them then I would be open to it.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
This is a preview I can live with actually, much better written. Has the pros and cons and talks about his SC2 achievements.. could someone please replace the orginal article? thanks
No, it won't be replaced. If you liked something else better, why not?
You know you seem offended... you should not be... the thing is that all articles except the one for naniwa try also to focus on the "good" of the person while not leaving the bad habbits out... the naniwa article is mainly focusing on bad habbits. The article above actually reflects on both sides of the coin while, and this is my problem with the original article, talking about his way to blizcon, which also the original article should have been about.
I am by no means a naniwa fanboy, I just want that every player is seen in the same light. You know also taeja has bad habbits.. there is no talk AT ALL about them. He is extremly biased vs. other races and balance etc. etc. Also I want to see the article about Polt... Polt is someone that is extremely BM about other players on the stage... not only naniwa but almost everyone... I wonder if the articles will soley focus on this site of Polt... They should not.. and neither should the original article... It's just bad in every terms of journalism and writing. You should be a bit more objective when writing this stuff... sorry
Wtf, did you not read the alive article? He just sounded bland/invisible. They aren't trying to balance 'good and bad' they're trying to create a storyline for each player which is accurate and gives them character.
Even if you don't like the article, respect the process and the writers, or apply to be a writer yourself
On November 08 2013 16:02 Advantageous wrote: I seriously find so much negativity in the last couple of articles: MC, EG.Alive, now NaNiwa... but regardless (i expected better from TL...) NaNiwa fighting! The one foreigner to stand his ground against this Korean invasion!
I didnt find it as negative... i thought it was written quite well with facts that are true. I have been and always will be a hugh Naniwa fan. I love that he plays the style that wins... not the style that is supposed to be "fair", or "Correct" but what wins, and in the end that is all that matters.... to WIN.
Its going to be a tough road but Naniwa is as cold as ice under pressure and he attacks with an iron fist.
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote: In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
No, leverage good and bad. Not just bad.
What I saw:
'Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.' Is this conclusion to the article that summarises everything anywhere near negative?
'He cares only about the game (paraphrased)' Urm you want to know who cares only about the game? Absolutely most of the so called 'emotionless' Koreans now reigning at the top of the chart. When they play, what they are focused on is the beauty of the game and how it plays out, and that's how they are enthralled, and that's what makes them champions. Teamliquid is describing Naniwa as having a characteristics of a champion.
I feel like if people would get pass the knee jerk reaction of 'oh no this is the only true foreigner in Blizzcon he must be hyped to a demigod status write only good things about him please' you will see that not only is this article very true about Naniwa, it is actually making an incredibly strong good statement about him - He is, at heart, a Champion who does not give a fuck about how you view him.
And also, judging from how Naniwa is easily thrown under everyone's feet when he is not being the foreigner flag carrier we can also deduce that people do not like him as a person. They like him as an abstraction of their hopes. This abstraction could be anybody - Scarlett, TLO, a dog - what people care about is the flag carrier and the flag carrier itself, not the human behind it. And this is the result of Nani not reaching out to his fans enough.
This is simply not true, not for me.
I like him because of his personality, because he went through a lot, starting from having problems with his family because of playing computer games (I've read somewhere that his parents made him leave his home because of this, but I don't know if this is confirmed), following problems with numerous teams because of his bad manner and behavior (he was thrown out many times), to the point when now he is among the best, and he is improving his mindset thanks to his devotion and damn hard work (you can clearly see it in the last months if you watch and read him).
I never cheered for Stephano, because Stephano next to Naniwa seems soulless (Stephano openly stated several times that he plays for money, while Naniwa states that Starcraft is his passion).
(It's not true for me. Even if it's true for others then is this a reason to hate Naniwa or these others? No way.)
On November 08 2013 20:49 hansonslee wrote: [quote]
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world?
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation!
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle.
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it.
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds".
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
Let's start with everyone hating him, clearly that is not true based on any LR thread for a tournament that he competes in.
Should tournament organisers ban him? That's up to them and it's not my position to say what is best for the business but considering things like the probe rush or writing that MLG was a "fucking joke tournament" while the game screen was being shown to the entire crowd, any other similar occurances could you blame them?
What is the proper punishment?
You are painting me as some kind of authority for how a player show be treated in the entire scene and I don't know why. The only "punishment" I can give to Naniwa is personal, I don't support him simple as that. Anything relating to tournaments or the scene at large is not up to me.
Finally can someone find redemption in my eyes? Of course, they just have to show remorse for their previous actions which Naniwa has not done.
Your eyes seem to be very clouded by your own rightousness since you disregard his own words. I think it's hard for anyone to find redemption in your eyes. Personally I think Naniwa has shown many times during the last years that he strives to be better than his past. Step by step he is becoming more like a professional athlete even tho he has occational lapses.
But it's good to know where someone like you stands. You have a lot of opinions you like to share about Naniwa but you don't want to stand for them. Instead you hide behind excuses like stating you're not a authority figure etc when having to explain what you really think you're opinions should result in if everyone adopted them.
I'm dying to hear your opinion about Taeja and Polt now.. they should also be punished severely I take it?
My opinion is based on everything Naniwa has done since entering the scene. You say I disregard his own words, maybe I have not scene the interviews you are talking about, I would be happy to read anything you post from him.
I stand for my opinions by not supporting Naniwa, as a fan of the game that is all I am required to do, anything else is irrelevant.
I also stand for players respecting other players, the game, the tournament organisers and the fans. I have not seen Polt or Taeja doing anything close to the many things Naniwa has done, again if you want to show me something I may have missed that might change my opinion on them then I would be open to it.
This is rich coming from someone with no quotes, links or anything remotely what you accuse me of yourself. I'm gonna write you off as a flame troll now and stop responding until you actually start bringing some meat to the conversation.
All I have done here is to point out how you handle someone based on your own bias from the past and not on actual actions lately. How you completely ignore the positive signs showed by this player and how you do not treat other players the same way dispite having a colourful past (research it yourself lazyboy).
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote: In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
No, leverage good and bad. Not just bad.
What I saw:
'Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.' Is this conclusion to the article that summarises everything anywhere near negative?
'He cares only about the game (paraphrased)' Urm you want to know who cares only about the game? Absolutely most of the so called 'emotionless' Koreans now reigning at the top of the chart. When they play, what they are focused on is the beauty of the game and how it plays out, and that's how they are enthralled, and that's what makes them champions. Teamliquid is describing Naniwa as having a characteristics of a champion.
I feel like if people would get pass the knee jerk reaction of 'oh no this is the only true foreigner in Blizzcon he must be hyped to a demigod status write only good things about him please' you will see that not only is this article very true about Naniwa, it is actually making an incredibly strong good statement about him - He is, at heart, a Champion who does not give a fuck about how you view him.
And also, judging from how Naniwa is easily thrown under everyone's feet when he is not being the foreigner flag carrier we can also deduce that people do not like him as a person. They like him as an abstraction of their hopes. This abstraction could be anybody - Scarlett, TLO, a dog - what people care about is the flag carrier and the flag carrier itself, not the human behind it. And this is the result of Nani not reaching out to his fans enough.
This is simply not true, not for me.
I like him because of his personality, because he went through a lot, starting from having problems with his family because of playing computer games (I've read somewhere that his parents made him leave his home because of this, but I don't know if this is confirmed), following problems with numerous teams because of his bad manner and behavior (he was thrown out many times), to the point when now he is among the best, and he is improving his mindset thanks to his devotion and damn hard work (you can clearly see it in the last months if you watch and read him).
I never cheered for Stephano, because Stephano next to Naniwa seems soulless (Stephano openly stated several times that he plays for money, while Naniwa states that Starcraft is his passion).
(It's not true for me. Even if it's true for others then is this a reason to hate Naniwa or these others? No way.)
It's believe it's true that Naniwa was forced to leave his parents' house at one point, back when he played WC3. He's talked about this numerous times, in Real Talk with JP and, I think, in Thorin's "Grilled" interview series. You should watch them if you haven't.
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote: In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
No, leverage good and bad. Not just bad.
What I saw:
'Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.' Is this conclusion to the article that summarises everything anywhere near negative?
'He cares only about the game (paraphrased)' Urm you want to know who cares only about the game? Absolutely most of the so called 'emotionless' Koreans now reigning at the top of the chart. When they play, what they are focused on is the beauty of the game and how it plays out, and that's how they are enthralled, and that's what makes them champions. Teamliquid is describing Naniwa as having a characteristics of a champion.
I feel like if people would get pass the knee jerk reaction of 'oh no this is the only true foreigner in Blizzcon he must be hyped to a demigod status write only good things about him please' you will see that not only is this article very true about Naniwa, it is actually making an incredibly strong good statement about him - He is, at heart, a Champion who does not give a fuck about how you view him.
And also, judging from how Naniwa is easily thrown under everyone's feet when he is not being the foreigner flag carrier we can also deduce that people do not like him as a person. They like him as an abstraction of their hopes. This abstraction could be anybody - Scarlett, TLO, a dog - what people care about is the flag carrier and the flag carrier itself, not the human behind it. And this is the result of Nani not reaching out to his fans enough.
This is simply not true, not for me.
I like him because of his personality, because he went through a lot, starting from having problems with his family because of playing computer games (I've read somewhere that his parents made him leave his home because of this, but I don't know if this is confirmed), following problems with numerous teams because of his bad manner and behavior (he was thrown out many times), to the point when now he is among the best, and he is improving his mindset thanks to his devotion and damn hard work (you can clearly see it in the last months if you watch and read him).
I never cheered for Stephano, because Stephano next to Naniwa seems soulless (Stephano openly stated several times that he plays for money, while Naniwa states that Starcraft is his passion).
(It's not true for me. Even if it's true for others then is this a reason to hate Naniwa or these others? No way.)
It's true that Naniwa was forced to leave his parents' house at one point, back when he played WC3. He's talked about this numerous time, in Real Talk with JP and, I think, in Thorin's "Grilled" interview series. You should watch them if you haven't.
Thanks Zealously, you're slowly making it up for your write-up
On November 08 2013 22:48 iloveav wrote: So basicly there are people who dont like Naniwa cus he is sincere about what he thinks (even if he might be rude at times)?
I assume thats why I have so few friends as well :D.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it. [/QUOTE]
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.[/QUOTE]
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world? [/QUOTE]
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation![/QUOTE]
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle. [/QUOTE]
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it. [/QUOTE]
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds". [/QUOTE]
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
[/QUOTE]
Let's start with everyone hating him, clearly that is not true based on any LR thread for a tournament that he competes in.
Should tournament organisers ban him? That's up to them and it's not my position to say what is best for the business but considering things like the probe rush or writing that MLG was a "fucking joke tournament" while the game screen was being shown to the entire crowd, any other similar occurances could you blame them?
What is the proper punishment?
You are painting me as some kind of authority for how a player show be treated in the entire scene and I don't know why. The only "punishment" I can give to Naniwa is personal, I don't support him simple as that. Anything relating to tournaments or the scene at large is not up to me.
Finally can someone find redemption in my eyes? Of course, they just have to show remorse for their previous actions which Naniwa has not done.[/QUOTE]
Your eyes seem to be very clouded by your own rightousness since you disregard his own words. I think it's hard for anyone to find redemption in your eyes. Personally I think Naniwa has shown many times during the last years that he strives to be better than his past. Step by step he is becoming more like a professional athlete even tho he has occational lapses.
But it's good to know where someone like you stands. You have a lot of opinions you like to share about Naniwa but you don't want to stand for them. Instead you hide behind excuses like stating you're not a authority figure etc when having to explain what you really think you're opinions should result in if everyone adopted them.
I'm dying to hear your opinion about Taeja and Polt now.. they should also be punished severely I take it?[/QUOTE]
My opinion is based on everything Naniwa has done since entering the scene. You say I disregard his own words, maybe I have not scene the interviews you are talking about, I would be happy to read anything you post from him.
I stand for my opinions by not supporting Naniwa, as a fan of the game that is all I am required to do, anything else is irrelevant.
I also stand for players respecting other players, the game, the tournament organisers and the fans. I have not seen Polt or Taeja doing anything close to the many things Naniwa has done, again if you want to show me something I may have missed that might change my opinion on them then I would be open to it. [/QUOTE]
This is rich coming from someone with no quotes, links or anything remotely what you accuse me of yourself. I'm gonna write you off as a flame troll now and stop responding until you actually start bringing some meat to the conversation.
All I have done here is to point out how you handle someone based on your own bias from the past and not on actual actions lately. How you completely ignore the positive signs showed by this player and how you do not treat other players the same way dispite having a colourful past (research it yourself lazyboy).
I have written in past posts the well known examples of Naniwa's bad behavior and you are the one you said I was wrong. Therefore the burden of proff is on you but you have not provided any examples , or brought any meat to the discussion as you called it, to disprove my claim.
Sorry about the quote error, I wrote that message on my phone
On November 08 2013 22:48 iloveav wrote: So basicly there are people who dont like Naniwa cus he is sincere about what he thinks (even if he might be rude at times)?
I assume thats why I have so few friends as well :D.
Oh yes, it's a really bad trait to have!
There's such a thing called honesty and then brutal honesty. People don't like the latter. -.^
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how you can see Naniwa making it to Blizzcon as epitomising how he is the player who dares to challenge against all odds when the fact is that Naniwa made it to Blizzcon on the back of miraculous luck and incredible failures of many other players that were in a position to easily overtake him. What you describe sounds like what MC did to make it to Blizzcon. In fact they both started season 3 with similar points and both needed to perform well or risk not making it to the finals. MC performed when he needed to, especially when he was one game away from elimination against Thorzain and was able to guarantee his place on the back of his own performance, Naniwa on the other hand flamed out and had to rely on many things going his way to even have a chance to make it. [/QUOTE]
The thing is how NaNiwa continued to try, even though his chances were slim. Also, I even said that his attitude is responsible for his downfall, and I definitely agree that his loss against Targa was his fault for underestimating Targa. There's a reason why I called him "Hope". It's because there was some miracles behind it. Look, I definitely agree that there are way better Protosses (Rain and Parting) than he, but the funny thing is how NaNiwa was able to succeed even though his chances were narrow. Also, if you read my piece, you would realize how NaNiwa is fine with being the dark horse (in his own right). NaNiwa's journey is one of a kind, and I think that should have been capitalized.[/QUOTE]
If they capitalised on how his run was unique it would have made his fans even more mad, would you have preferred the article to be titled the luckiest player in the world? [/QUOTE]
I think miraculous would be the better title. Miracles can happen and can be viewed as a result of a good deed (like the Cinderella story). Luck is viewed to be much more indiscriminate. Same denotation but very different connotation![/QUOTE]
If miracles can be a result of a good deed I would have to say that based on his storied history Naniwa is one of the least deserving players of a miracle. [/QUOTE]
Due to good deeds he isn't worthy, which is plausible because of his piss poor attitude at times. You have to realize how hard this guy works though, which makes me think he is worthy of deserving it. [/QUOTE]
Every pro that made it to the finals works hard, they would not have made it if they didn't but none of them have Naniwa's history of bad manner, disrespecting other players, bad mouthing tournaments and throwing matches. I can respect Naniwa's persistence to a degree but there is no excuse for his behavior and the reaction that some of his fans bring to events that he is involved in (not referring to you or the previous poster) is toxic for the scene.
And to clarify, I did not say that he did not deserve to be at the finals, but that the "miracle" that occurred to allow Naniwa to advance could have gone to many more deserving players based on their "good deeds". [/QUOTE]
I'm just wondering here. What is your solution to this player? Force him to retire? Is that your wish? Should the organizers block him to participate in future tournaments? Or are you happy if everyone just hates him everywhere? What is a proper punishment to you?
Also, as a side question to this, can any person find redemption in your eyes? Or is it "You made a mistake! Your now banned out of my existance for all eternity!"?
[/QUOTE]
Let's start with everyone hating him, clearly that is not true based on any LR thread for a tournament that he competes in.
Should tournament organisers ban him? That's up to them and it's not my position to say what is best for the business but considering things like the probe rush or writing that MLG was a "fucking joke tournament" while the game screen was being shown to the entire crowd, any other similar occurances could you blame them?
What is the proper punishment?
You are painting me as some kind of authority for how a player show be treated in the entire scene and I don't know why. The only "punishment" I can give to Naniwa is personal, I don't support him simple as that. Anything relating to tournaments or the scene at large is not up to me.
Finally can someone find redemption in my eyes? Of course, they just have to show remorse for their previous actions which Naniwa has not done.[/QUOTE]
Your eyes seem to be very clouded by your own rightousness since you disregard his own words. I think it's hard for anyone to find redemption in your eyes. Personally I think Naniwa has shown many times during the last years that he strives to be better than his past. Step by step he is becoming more like a professional athlete even tho he has occational lapses.
But it's good to know where someone like you stands. You have a lot of opinions you like to share about Naniwa but you don't want to stand for them. Instead you hide behind excuses like stating you're not a authority figure etc when having to explain what you really think you're opinions should result in if everyone adopted them.
I'm dying to hear your opinion about Taeja and Polt now.. they should also be punished severely I take it?[/QUOTE]
My opinion is based on everything Naniwa has done since entering the scene. You say I disregard his own words, maybe I have not scene the interviews you are talking about, I would be happy to read anything you post from him.
I stand for my opinions by not supporting Naniwa, as a fan of the game that is all I am required to do, anything else is irrelevant.
I also stand for players respecting other players, the game, the tournament organisers and the fans. I have not seen Polt or Taeja doing anything close to the many things Naniwa has done, again if you want to show me something I may have missed that might change my opinion on them then I would be open to it. [/QUOTE]
This is rich coming from someone with no quotes, links or anything remotely what you accuse me of yourself. I'm gonna write you off as a flame troll now and stop responding until you actually start bringing some meat to the conversation.
All I have done here is to point out how you handle someone based on your own bias from the past and not on actual actions lately. How you completely ignore the positive signs showed by this player and how you do not treat other players the same way dispite having a colourful past (research it yourself lazyboy).
I have written in past posts the well known examples of Naniwa's bad behavior and you are the one you said I was wrong. Therefore the burden of proff is on you but you have not provided any examples , or brought any meat to the discussion as you called it, to disprove my claim.
Sorry about the quote error, I wrote that message on my phone[/QUOTE]
I just reread it all. You have no sources, links or anything like it. Only your own words which you now advocate as proof. Note that this is about you stating him showing no remorse whatsoever over his actions and no signs of improvement. Which was your own stated requirement for redemption in your eyes. Not about him doing bad things 2011.
It is you throwing around your opinion of Naniwa being toxic for the scene here. The burden of proof is not on me.
Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
Not sure how I feel about Naniwa in this... On the one hand, he's obviously a great player who is driven to win. But, his personality (or lack thereof?) rubs me the wrong way. Throw in the fact that he's the only non-korean, and I'm really torn =\
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
I think Naniwa not having a title is actually a rather strong title in itself; it distinguished him from the other attendees.
On November 08 2013 22:14 Muffloe wrote: I don't really think the article is bad, although I think it would better for the tournament if we hyped the foriegner alittle more. Thats about all.
Somewhere i got the feeling that is exactly what they tried to avoid. "Yea, this person has a different skin color then the rest, hype!".
Yeah, it would be alittle generic, but for the sake of maximum hype I feel like this is the perfect time for glorifying write ups ^^
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
It's not just the lack of a title, it's the lack of a story. The other articles (including the ones Zealously wrote) all paint a picture of the players path to Blizzcon by telling a story emphasizing some particular trait of that player. That's how the writer makes the player relatable and builds hype. For some reason this article didn't do that, so it comes off as bland and impersonal if not biased. Might have just been the time crunch at work here, but who knows. Hopefully Zealously can take the feedback in this thread and use it to improve his future articles.
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
It's not just the lack of a title, it's the lack of a story. The other articles (including the ones Zealously wrote) all paint a picture of the players path to Blizzcon by telling a story emphasizing some particular trait of that player. That's how the writer makes the player relatable and builds hype. For some reason this article didn't do that, so it comes off as bland and impersonal if not biased. Might have just been the time crunch at work here, but who knows. Hopefully Zealously can take the feedback in this thread and use it to improve his future articles.
I think the article is fine, it's just the irrational expectations from some people.
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
It's not just the lack of a title, it's the lack of a story. The other articles (including the ones Zealously wrote) all paint a picture of the players path to Blizzcon by telling a story emphasizing some particular trait of that player. That's how the writer makes the player relatable and builds hype. For some reason this article didn't do that, so it comes off as bland and impersonal if not biased. Might have just been the time crunch at work here, but who knows. Hopefully Zealously can take the feedback in this thread and use it to improve his future articles.
I think the article is fine, it's just the irrational expectations from some people.
Too much heartbreak to root for nani against soulkey, but I can't stop hoping. I don't like the way nani has acted in the past, but he's stayed a progamer in some of the bleakest positions possible and still finds a way to hold a torch for foreigners. He's on a stable team now, he's gotten a lot healthier in his attitude and expectations, and he still wants to win so badly. He's gone from someone whose play I can respect into someone I'd be happy to see win Blizzcon
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
It's not just the lack of a title, it's the lack of a story. The other articles (including the ones Zealously wrote) all paint a picture of the players path to Blizzcon by telling a story emphasizing some particular trait of that player. That's how the writer makes the player relatable and builds hype. For some reason this article didn't do that, so it comes off as bland and impersonal if not biased. Might have just been the time crunch at work here, but who knows. Hopefully Zealously can take the feedback in this thread and use it to improve his future articles.
I think the article is fine, it's just the irrational expectations from some people.
How is it irrational if those expectations have been formed and based upon 14 other articles in the same series? It's as rational as it gets.
You can't have a thread pertaining to naniwa without a lot of people up in arms. The article was fine. The people that like to associate cheering for foreigners with racism really bum me out.
Naniwa=hope that players that aren't from Korea can play at the highest level. I really hope he does well. Would be huge to see if he can make a sick run through and honestly great for SC 2.
On November 08 2013 16:02 Advantageous wrote: I seriously find so much negativity in the last couple of articles: MC, EG.Alive, now NaNiwa... but regardless (i expected better from TL...) NaNiwa fighting! The one foreigner to stand his ground against this Korean invasion!
I think what you're missing out on is the feeling of "Yes, there are problems with this player because of personality/inconsistency/lack of recognition, but dammit, Blizzcon is his chance to overcome that hurdle."
The struggle against negativity and adversity is what makes these stories compelling.
On November 08 2013 23:21 sithvincent wrote: Also, I'm restraining myself from using the word 'Naniwa circlejerk brigade' but the amount of people coming to criticize this article in an act of righteous posturing when in truth the article describes Naniwa's champion mentality perfectly well is funny. It's almost as if TL must write a 5 page article or give wayyyy more attention to Naniwa than other champions for people to get satisfied.
This is the problem of different expectations. When TL writes a similar length article for other players people feel that they hyped them up but when the same accurate journalism comes here people are all like 'No No this is not good enough we must not view him as a human with flaws but with a good mentality but as a flawless demigod instead'.
You know who got the shit treatment as well? MC. You can biasedly say that he is written off as a money grabbing whore and someone whose 'chapter is closed' (check out their conclusion) and get angry about it....but no one did. Write something negative about Naniwa and everybody's like 'WHERE ARE HIS GOOD POINTS? TL BIASED'
I think the only problem TL writers have here is the lack of title. That is a clear indication for everyone even viewing it at glance of a different treatment from the other players (that might or might not be true). If you would just give him a title like say "The Road to Redemption" "The King of the North" or just "Underdog" I think most people wouldn't notice any bias. This lack of title is just too visible and shows a different treatment from the other players and that's not okey.
So, TL writers, to put a stop to this endless complaining, just give the guy a title like the rest.
I agree on this though. Just change the title. People are irrational beings, and they will perceive a lot of things from a small slight to them/their object of positive attention. The King in the North or just The Foreign King would sound sexy as fuck.
It's not just the lack of a title, it's the lack of a story. The other articles (including the ones Zealously wrote) all paint a picture of the players path to Blizzcon by telling a story emphasizing some particular trait of that player. That's how the writer makes the player relatable and builds hype. For some reason this article didn't do that, so it comes off as bland and impersonal if not biased. Might have just been the time crunch at work here, but who knows. Hopefully Zealously can take the feedback in this thread and use it to improve his future articles.
I think the article is fine, it's just the irrational expectations from some people.
Still doesn't explain the lack of a title.
I think the lack of a title is very obvious.
It's the writer's way of saying that Naniwa doesn't need or want a title - he's Naniwa.
Like many of you, I am a little disappointed. Not in the quality of the writing as some of you so quickly criticize, but in the amount of people who decided that this article is not up to par.
I hope you all can take a step back and think about what the TL writers have done this week. An unprecedented number of articles and previews have gone out to hype one of the greatest tournaments of all time. I don't mean to go all Tasteless, "esports history" on you but it is what it is.
But the amount of people who have the audacity to jump on Zealously for this article is astounding. Now I've read some complaints which range from the article simply not having a title to the fact that it is not entirely positive. And my answer to that is: SO WHAT?
The article may not be positive, but it is honest. I happen to know that Zealously actually likes Naniwa, but he does what a writer should do and looks at the player objectively. Feel free to try to point out factual inaccuracies in the article, because I have not found any.
Maybe people expected a 6 page dissertation on why Naniwa is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just because he is the only foreigner. But isn't that the same bias that you all so self-righteously condemn because the article is "negative"? The writers are there to objectively evaluate the player and create hype for the tournament, and I think this article did just that.
Anyway that about wraps it up, sorry for ranting. But seriously, take some time to appreciate the work the writers did this week hyping ALL of the players, and cut them a little slack. Just because you did not think this article adequately hyped Naniwa does not mean you can sit behind your computer bashing the writing without making a contribution of your own. In conclusion, "This is the tournament where all the odds are stacked against NaNiwa, where no reasonable person would believe in him to win the championship. Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step."
Obviously any article about anything related to Naniwa is going to incite some controversy, even if it means mouthraping a volunteer writer who did a neat job writing an article.
On November 09 2013 00:51 SixStrings wrote: Obviously any article about anything related to Naniwa is going to incite some controversy, even if it means mouthraping a volunteer writer who did a neat job writing an article.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed it quite a bit.
Delusional Fanboys can't stand it when there isn't excessive foreign hope in any article. Delusional Fanboys also love to take no accountability and don't have a thread of class. Delusional Fanboys also never contribute and are stuck in wood league.
TL volunteers are so awesome they keep eSports alive. TL volunteers are VOLUNTEERS, that work hard to produce content. TL volunteers, thank you.
Thanks again for the great article. I'm blown away by the effort put into this tournament by TL. I think many opinions may change on the WCS system if the finals is anywhere near as good as the hype.
On November 09 2013 00:49 Darkhoarse wrote: Like many of you, I am a little disappointed. Not in the quality of the writing as some of you so quickly criticize, but in the amount of people who decided that this article is not up to par.
I hope you all can take a step back and think about what the TL writers have done this week. An unprecedented number of articles and previews have gone out to hype one of the greatest tournaments of all time. I don't mean to go all Tasteless, "esports history" on you but it is what it is.
But the amount of people who have the audacity to jump on Zealously for this article is astounding. Now I've read some complaints which range from the article simply not having a title to the fact that it is not entirely positive. And my answer to that is: SO WHAT?
The article may not be positive, but it is honest. I happen to know that Zealously actually likes Naniwa, but he does what a writer should do and looks at the player objectively. Feel free to try to point out factual inaccuracies in the article, because I have not found any.
Maybe people expected a 6 page dissertation on why Naniwa is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just because he is the only foreigner. But isn't that the same bias that you all so self-righteously condemn because the article is "negative"? The writers are there to objectively evaluate the player and create hype for the tournament, and I think this article did just that.
Anyway that about wraps it up, sorry for ranting. But seriously, take some time to appreciate the work the writers did this week hyping ALL of the players, and cut them a little slack. Just because you did not think this article adequately hyped Naniwa does not mean you can sit behind your computer bashing the writing without making a contribution of your own. In conclusion, "This is the tournament where all the odds are stacked against NaNiwa, where no reasonable person would believe in him to win the championship. Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step."
Get ready for Blizzcon.
This post is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
You can knock him all you want for being a whiner and a jerk, but you can't deny his skill nor how his personality is stimulating for the scene. He's one of the few players that isn't scared to show his true colours and chops and he's confident/cocky about his play. Which is something people absolutely crave to see, for better or for worse.
No matter how much I like him and dislike Soulkey, I still don't think he'll win. I expect a 3-1 maybe a 3-2 for Soulkey. The games will be good though that's for sure. Especially after the PvZ he's shown against Hyun, Life and Revival, all very good Zergs.
HAHA Got to say that this article is so perfect for Nani, Even the article it self is dividing and is making ppl argue :D (the only thing i have to say about it is that it could have had more epic forcefields in it, thats all.)
Ohwell as a fellow swed im biased as hell but if he didnt make it i would probably not even watch the finals, His presence has set fire to this tournament.
As for the article. Its well written but I do think it somehow feels different to the others though I'm not quite sure why. Don't feel quite as hyped as I did after reading the others.
Regardless of that, shame on those saying its "bad". Its a perfectly well written article.
I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote: I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .
Come off it, I'm a HUGE Naniwa fan but didn't Hyun go 3 hatch before pool every single map prior? That's just asking to be proxy gated... I wouldn't say it took balls, but it was definitely a gamble that paid off.
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote: I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .
Come off it, I'm a HUGE Naniwa fan but didn't Hyun go 3 hatch before pool every single map prior? That's just asking to be proxy gated... I wouldn't say it took balls, but it was definitely a gamble that paid off.
Hyun scouted his natural quite thoroughly though, before deciding there wasn't a proxy. It took balls to do a proxy in the opponent's base in the final map of a tight series.
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote: I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .
I'm sorry if I made it sound like Naniwa is cheesy. I don't think he is, nor do I think Mvp is, which is the closest comparison I can think of. I think they're players that more so than anyone else aren't afraid to cheese if they feel the series calls for it. They know the right time for it and they won't play safe if they think they have a better chance with a proxy. A killer instinct, not a cheesy tendency per se.
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote: I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .
Come off it, I'm a HUGE Naniwa fan but didn't Hyun go 3 hatch before pool every single map prior? That's just asking to be proxy gated... I wouldn't say it took balls, but it was definitely a gamble that paid off.
If Hyun scouts it or does Pool first then Naniwa is out of the tournament and says bye-bye to Blizzcon. It took insane balls and barely anyone else in the world would do such a thing. Lots of progamers said the same on Twitter.
And FWIW Zealously I think the article is well written, it's just that I expected something different for the only foreigner.
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote: In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!
No, leverage good and bad. Not just bad.
What I saw:
'Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.' Is this conclusion to the article that summarises everything anywhere near negative?
'He cares only about the game (paraphrased)' Urm you want to know who cares only about the game? Absolutely most of the so called 'emotionless' Koreans now reigning at the top of the chart. When they play, what they are focused on is the beauty of the game and how it plays out, and that's how they are enthralled, and that's what makes them champions. Teamliquid is describing Naniwa as having a characteristics of a champion.
I feel like if people would get pass the knee jerk reaction of 'oh no this is the only true foreigner in Blizzcon he must be hyped to a demigod status write only good things about him please' you will see that not only is this article very true about Naniwa, it is actually making an incredibly strong good statement about him - He is, at heart, a Champion who does not give a fuck about how you view him.
And also, judging from how Naniwa is easily thrown under everyone's feet when he is not being the foreigner flag carrier we can also deduce that people do not like him as a person. They like him as an abstraction of their hopes. This abstraction could be anybody - Scarlett, TLO, a dog - what people care about is the flag carrier and the flag carrier itself, not the human behind it. And this is the result of Nani not reaching out to his fans enough.
This is simply not true, not for me.
I like him because of his personality, because he went through a lot, starting from having problems with his family because of playing computer games (I've read somewhere that his parents made him leave his home because of this, but I don't know if this is confirmed), following problems with numerous teams because of his bad manner and behavior (he was thrown out many times), to the point when now he is among the best, and he is improving his mindset thanks to his devotion and damn hard work (you can clearly see it in the last months if you watch and read him).
I never cheered for Stephano, because Stephano next to Naniwa seems soulless (Stephano openly stated several times that he plays for money, while Naniwa states that Starcraft is his passion).
(It's not true for me. Even if it's true for others then is this a reason to hate Naniwa or these others? No way.)
It's true that Naniwa was forced to leave his parents' house at one point, back when he played WC3. He's talked about this numerous time, in Real Talk with JP and, I think, in Thorin's "Grilled" interview series. You should watch them if you haven't.
The problem with me is that allot of stuff in this article is inaccurate. If you actually watched real talk or grilled he says that he never was kicked out or forced out of the house. His friends just took over his computer and made stuff up.
When it comes to his family he states that his relationship with them is good and his mom supports him. In the grilled interview he says it’s never about winning or losing for him but playing his best.
One thing that you would have actually known if you watched the grilled interview that he says his biggest weakness is that he is not confident in his skill and his low confidence. There is nothing about this in your article at all. You can just watch the grill interview and see most of the faults in your article. Here is the link if you think I’m wrong:
Basically this just proves what I thought. This is writhing by some one that actually didn’t do any research at all.
On November 09 2013 01:59 gobbledydook wrote: so to settle this once and for all
Poll: This article was:
Good (27)
52%
Bad (20)
38%
No idea/no comment (5)
10%
52 total votes
Your vote: This article was:
(Vote): Good (Vote): Bad (Vote): No idea/no comment
Even though I was critical of the article, I thought the article was good (bad would just mean that the article didn't do shit!). I just heavily disagreed with it and believed that his article had so much more potential to present more. To me, NaNiwa has a very complex story line, and I was expecting that type of format as seen from my take on NaNiwa.
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.
There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?
Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.
However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.
In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".
---
Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.
Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.
Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.
As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.
Disappointing article, no offense. I was hoping more positive hype/story around the king in the north/dragonslayer, known for being the one able to compete with the very best koreans and his controversial personality. It didn't feel balanced reading all the negativity around Drama, no appreciation from fans, BM, Selfishness, Etc. (Rather than highlighting ups and downs in his play & personality)
"I came here with my own strength, and I will continue to play for myself. Whether you cheer for me or not, that's up to you, of course. I appreciate it but, you're not the reason I play the game. I play because I like to win."
EPT
NaNiwa. Not even Idra and Stephano, for all the dramatic headlines they produced, could divide the fans between love and hate like the Swedish Protoss.
!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kcUTcDZ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/QSw7qxI)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Skf3dPv.jpg)
