• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:26
CEST 00:26
KST 07:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202542Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up5LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced58
StarCraft 2
General
Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now" Serral wins EWC 2025 TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Would you prefer the game to be balanced around top-tier pro level or average pro level? Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Which top zerg/toss will fail in qualifiers? Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Bitcoin discussion thread 9/11 Anniversary
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 617 users

[A]NaNiwa - Road to Blizzcon #15 - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
298 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 All
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
November 08 2013 17:42 GMT
#281
I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .
Neazbo
Profile Joined May 2013
United Kingdom698 Posts
November 08 2013 17:45 GMT
#282
Worst article of the lot imo. Had the potential to be something special, feelsbadman.
ReignSupreme.
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Australia4123 Posts
November 08 2013 17:50 GMT
#283
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote:
I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .


Come off it, I'm a HUGE Naniwa fan but didn't Hyun go 3 hatch before pool every single map prior? That's just asking to be proxy gated... I wouldn't say it took balls, but it was definitely a gamble that paid off.
BeaSteR
Profile Joined May 2009
Sweden328 Posts
November 08 2013 17:52 GMT
#284
Go Naniwa! You show them Koreans what you're made off, give them Swedish steel
Greed is good
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17992 Posts
November 08 2013 17:54 GMT
#285
On November 09 2013 02:50 ReignSupreme. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote:
I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .


Come off it, I'm a HUGE Naniwa fan but didn't Hyun go 3 hatch before pool every single map prior? That's just asking to be proxy gated... I wouldn't say it took balls, but it was definitely a gamble that paid off.

Hyun scouted his natural quite thoroughly though, before deciding there wasn't a proxy. It took balls to do a proxy in the opponent's base in the final map of a tight series.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
November 08 2013 18:06 GMT
#286
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote:
I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .


I'm sorry if I made it sound like Naniwa is cheesy. I don't think he is, nor do I think Mvp is, which is the closest comparison I can think of. I think they're players that more so than anyone else aren't afraid to cheese if they feel the series calls for it. They know the right time for it and they won't play safe if they think they have a better chance with a proxy. A killer instinct, not a cheesy tendency per se.
AdministratorBreak the chains
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-08 18:23:44
November 08 2013 18:07 GMT
#287
On November 09 2013 02:50 ReignSupreme. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 02:42 ZAiNs wrote:
I have to agree something feels off about the article . It feels like part of Naniwa got missed out. Also Naniwa is made out to be way cheesier of a player than he actually is. The proxy gate he did vs Hyun during the deciding game took ridiculous balls, not many players would ever think of doing something like that, since that game Hyun still scouts his whole base for proxy gates .


Come off it, I'm a HUGE Naniwa fan but didn't Hyun go 3 hatch before pool every single map prior? That's just asking to be proxy gated... I wouldn't say it took balls, but it was definitely a gamble that paid off.

If Hyun scouts it or does Pool first then Naniwa is out of the tournament and says bye-bye to Blizzcon. It took insane balls and barely anyone else in the world would do such a thing. Lots of progamers said the same on Twitter.

And FWIW Zealously I think the article is well written, it's just that I expected something different for the only foreigner.
Anomi
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden149 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-08 18:45:16
November 08 2013 18:44 GMT
#288
On November 08 2013 22:48 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2013 22:41 pms wrote:
On November 08 2013 22:22 sithvincent wrote:
On November 08 2013 22:15 pms wrote:
On November 08 2013 22:10 sithvincent wrote:
In this thread: Naniwa is not hyped up enough. I want more hype! And make him more positive! Ignore his bad sides please cause we all want only to know the best there is about him!


No, leverage good and bad. Not just bad.



What I saw:

'Two years we saw the best of NaNiwa, even as he fell just short of being crowned champion of the world. This time around, he can make that final step.' Is this conclusion to the article that summarises everything anywhere near negative?

'He cares only about the game (paraphrased)' Urm you want to know who cares only about the game? Absolutely most of the so called 'emotionless' Koreans now reigning at the top of the chart. When they play, what they are focused on is the beauty of the game and how it plays out, and that's how they are enthralled, and that's what makes them champions. Teamliquid is describing Naniwa as having a characteristics of a champion.

I feel like if people would get pass the knee jerk reaction of 'oh no this is the only true foreigner in Blizzcon he must be hyped to a demigod status write only good things about him please' you will see that not only is this article very true about Naniwa, it is actually making an incredibly strong good statement about him - He is, at heart, a Champion who does not give a fuck about how you view him.

And also, judging from how Naniwa is easily thrown under everyone's feet when he is not being the foreigner flag carrier we can also deduce that people do not like him as a person. They like him as an abstraction of their hopes. This abstraction could be anybody - Scarlett, TLO, a dog - what people care about is the flag carrier and the flag carrier itself, not the human behind it. And this is the result of Nani not reaching out to his fans enough.



This is simply not true, not for me.

I like him because of his personality, because he went through a lot, starting from having problems with his family because of playing computer games (I've read somewhere that his parents made him leave his home because of this, but I don't know if this is confirmed), following problems with numerous teams because of his bad manner and behavior (he was thrown out many times), to the point when now he is among the best, and he is improving his mindset thanks to his devotion and damn hard work (you can clearly see it in the last months if you watch and read him).

I never cheered for Stephano, because Stephano next to Naniwa seems soulless (Stephano openly stated several times that he plays for money, while Naniwa states that Starcraft is his passion).

(It's not true for me. Even if it's true for others then is this a reason to hate Naniwa or these others? No way.)


It's true that Naniwa was forced to leave his parents' house at one point, back when he played WC3. He's talked about this numerous time, in Real Talk with JP and, I think, in Thorin's "Grilled" interview series. You should watch them if you haven't.


The problem with me is that allot of stuff in this article is inaccurate. If you actually watched real talk or grilled he says that he never was kicked out or forced out of the house. His friends just took over his computer and made stuff up.

When it comes to his family he states that his relationship with them is good and his mom supports him.
In the grilled interview he says it’s never about winning or losing for him but playing his best.

One thing that you would have actually known if you watched the grilled interview that he says his biggest weakness is that he is not confident in his skill and his low confidence. There is nothing about this in your article at all. You can just watch the grill interview and see most of the faults in your article.
Here is the link if you think I’m wrong:


Basically this just proves what I thought. This is writhing by some one that actually didn’t do any research at all.

BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
November 08 2013 18:55 GMT
#289
Naniwa vs 15 Koreans. I like the odds! KotN will take this.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
November 08 2013 19:07 GMT
#290
On November 09 2013 01:59 gobbledydook wrote:
so to settle this once and for all

Poll: This article was:

Good (27)
 
52%

Bad (20)
 
38%

No idea/no comment (5)
 
10%

52 total votes

Your vote: This article was:

(Vote): Good
(Vote): Bad
(Vote): No idea/no comment





Even though I was critical of the article, I thought the article was good (bad would just mean that the article didn't do shit!). I just heavily disagreed with it and believed that his article had so much more potential to present more. To me, NaNiwa has a very complex story line, and I was expecting that type of format as seen from my take on NaNiwa.

You can read more about it below:

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 08 2013 20:15 hansonslee wrote:
Here's my take on NaNiwa:

I was about to make a thread, but I did not want to create a scene, so I will post my article here!

[image loading]


Naniwa: "There's No Greater Price and Reward Than Victory!"

+ Show Spoiler +
Note: I understand that Zealously has written an article about him, but sadly, unlike his past articles, that article has exhibited poor quality in terms of depiction of NaNiwa. The points that article are true; however, it's the omission of other important facts that creates a very skewed picture of NaNiwa. I understand that I am not a TL writer. However, some people were eager to hear how the TL would treat NaNiwa, and these people especially NaNiwa deserve better. A lot of harsh criticism has compelled me to write an article about NaNiwa to cater to those who felt unsatisfied. If I have offended anyone, I greatly apologize.


There is more to NaNiwa than being the "foreign hope" of BlizzCon. He represents many other archetypes that cannot be simply listed. When Starcraft 2 was at its infancy, NaNiwa was notorious for being a dangerous 1 base cheeser with a very obnoxious attitude. Such behavior has forced NaNiwa to exhibit commitment issues with different teams. But then, when MLG Dallas 2011 was looming in the corner, the State of the Game hosts such as Nony saw NaNiwa's play on stream and quivered in fear. How can this random kid be so good?

Even with his clean victory in MLG Dallas 2011, NaNiwa was not satisfied with his victory, and the Koreans were next on his hit list. When MLG Providence arrived, NaNiwa defeated the two Incredible Miracle kings of Liberty Mvp and Nestea. Due to NaNiwa's impressive play that placed him 2nd against Leenock, GOMtv has decided to invite him Blizzard Cup.

However, every glorious victory comes at a price. NaNiwa's obsessive ambition to win has cemented his downfall time to time. When he had no chance of advancing from the group stages, NaNiwa decided to insult his integrity by probe rushing against Nestea. People were shocked not only because of NaNiwa's blatant disrespect of his opponent but also because of how the anticipated rivalry between Nestea and NaNiwa had an extremely anti-climatic ending.

In addition to NaNiwa's bad sportsmanship, NaNiwa might have developed some sort of overconfidence resulting from his bounty kills of famous Koreans and paid the price. NaNiwa had an extreme grudge against the Zerg match up and dismissed a lot of the Zerg players he lost against for playing an "OP race". This mentality has compelled NaNiwa to underestimate his Zerg opponents and lost when he was considered to be the heavy favorite. NaNiwa also has shown some stubbornness in some of his games. He sometimes would scout late and lose to Mvp's and Flash's 1 base cheese. His mantra "Forge Fast Expand or Die", which was considered to be his favorite build, was also exploited when he played against Leenock. In a sense, Bane would be correct to say to NaNiwa that "victory has defeated you".

---

Despite the costs of his toxic mentality, NaNiwa was still an inspiring figure to some people not just because he beats Koreans, but because NaNiwa wanted to win despite all odds against him. Unlike EG legends like HuK, Idra, Stephano, and ThorZain, NaNiwa continued to train in Korea and change up his playstyle whenever he needed to. Throughout his WCS journey, NaNiwa has shown a diverse set of builds with crisp execution. For example, NaNiwa's void ray composition is considered unthinkable against the Zerg's hydralisk composition. Yet, NaNiwa makes it work and has introduced Void Rays as a versatile unit and less of a corruptor buster. Since NaNiwa is not much of a socializer, we can assume that such extraordinary gameplay comes from NaNiwa's dedication and determination to win, which rivals to those of his Korean counterparts.

Furthermore, NaNiwa's strength is to his ability to analyze his players and come up with different tactics to show us memorable games. For example, in his recent games against Hyun, NaNiwa has opened a cheese against Hyun in the ace match. The reason for his decision was NaNiwa wanted to use a different build order to punish Hyun's greedy playstyle, which NaNiwa guessed correctly. This depth of analysis reminds us of how foreigners like Stephano can become clutch players and make epic comebacks against massive deficits.

Finally, his chances of getting into BlizzCon epitomize how NaNiwa is the player who dares to challenges against all odds. When NaNiwa lost disgracefully against Targa, his chances to BlizzCon were slim. Even, the Starcraft 2 community believed that NaNiwa should place well in Dreamhack Bucharest and IEM New York to secure his spot. However, instead of rushing for the points, NaNiwa ditch Dreamhack and carefully and intensively prepared for his IEM New York. This sacrifice earned him second place, which did not give him the amount of points to stay on the safe zone. However, it seems that the stars smiled upon NaNiwa's diligence and granted him the opportunity to prove himself against Revival. NaNiwa did not disappoint and crushed Revival with constant two base aggression, which demonstrates his flexibility as a player.

As seen from his journey from the Wings of Liberty to the BlizzCon, it is not enough to depict NaNiwa as the foreign hope. NaNiwa is hope! With a tarnished resume displaying his unprofessional behavior and occasional mediocre play, NaNiwa has achieved the unthinkable by storming tournaments with miraculous victories and finally found an Alliance that would welcome him with open arms and maintain his relevance in the progaming scene. As of now, we see that NaNiwa has began to exhibit a better attitude and approach to the game. Although the winning mentality has mortally cursed NaNiwa, that same spell has empowered NaNiwa to become the very reason to perhaps hope that he will realize the ultimate rewards of absolute victory.

Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-08 20:25:47
November 08 2013 20:25 GMT
#291
wrong thread oops
Amove for Aiur
Moonsalt
Profile Joined May 2011
267 Posts
November 08 2013 20:52 GMT
#292
NANIWA GGOOGO!
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
November 08 2013 23:52 GMT
#293
Oh dang, NaNiwa just said that he plays to win. Zealously and I were not wrong at all!
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
November 09 2013 05:56 GMT
#294
I enjoyed that one part of NaNiwa's WCS intro video where he confirmed everything that was written here D:
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
November 09 2013 12:02 GMT
#295
On November 09 2013 14:56 Heyoka wrote:
I enjoyed that one part of NaNiwa's WCS intro video where he confirmed everything that was written here D:


How awkward
AdministratorBreak the chains
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
November 09 2013 18:43 GMT
#296
Feels like Naniwa cant be mentioned without naniwa fans arguing about something lol

Nice article nonetheless
Gemini_sc2
Profile Joined February 2013
Norway69 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-15 03:40:19
November 15 2013 03:30 GMT
#297
Disappointing article, no offense. I was hoping more positive hype/story around the king in the north/dragonslayer, known for being the one able to compete with the very best koreans and his controversial personality. It didn't feel balanced reading all the negativity around Drama, no appreciation from fans, BM, Selfishness, Etc. (Rather than highlighting ups and downs in his play & personality)
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33389 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-18 22:04:35
November 18 2013 21:56 GMT
#298


cheers bros

"I came here with my own strength, and I will continue to play for myself. Whether you cheer for me or not, that's up to you, of course. I appreciate it but, you're not the reason I play the game. I play because I like to win."
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
November 18 2013 22:06 GMT
#299
Haha that reminds me of something I wrote once
AdministratorBreak the chains
Prev 1 13 14 15 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ForJumy 60
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 445
ggaemo 105
NaDa 44
Stormgate
WinterStarcraft1274
Nathanias248
UpATreeSC195
JuggernautJason74
NightEnD16
Dota 2
syndereN918
capcasts159
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps929
Stewie2K803
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox580
PPMD48
Liquid`Ken20
AZ_Axe6
Other Games
summit1g8222
Grubby2873
shahzam665
C9.Mang0148
ViBE108
Maynarde38
QueenE38
Sick38
fpsfer 1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH149
• StrangeGG 65
• musti20045 47
• RyuSc2 36
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22531
Other Games
• imaqtpie1829
• Shiphtur242
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
1h 34m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
12h 34m
Stormgate Nexus
15h 34m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
17h 34m
The PondCast
1d 11h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
RotterdaM Event
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.