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On October 29 2013 18:53 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 18:32 AlternativeEgo wrote:On October 29 2013 17:05 Martijn wrote:
My counter argument to that is that in sports you're not allowed to bet on your own team to win either because of the conflict of interest. But you are allowed to bet on your own team to win. I was under the impression that most professional athletes aren't allowed to bet on their own sports league.
You are correct. Pete Rose was banned from MLB for betting on his own team to win when he was a player-manager. The problem with that is that Rose had an incentive to win the particular game that he was betting on instead of doing what was best for the team. That's to say, in baseball they play 162 games; it's a marathon, not a sprint, and if you burn out your best pitchers making sure you win your bet, that's bad for the team.
There are other reasons too, but that's a major one.
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On October 30 2013 00:18 InvictusRage wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 18:53 Complete wrote:On October 29 2013 18:32 AlternativeEgo wrote:On October 29 2013 17:05 Martijn wrote:
My counter argument to that is that in sports you're not allowed to bet on your own team to win either because of the conflict of interest. But you are allowed to bet on your own team to win. I was under the impression that most professional athletes aren't allowed to bet on their own sports league. You are correct. Pete Rose was banned from MLB for betting on his own team to win when he was a player-manager. The problem with that is that Rose had an incentive to win the particular game that he was betting on instead of doing what was best for the team. That's to say, in baseball they play 162 games; it's a marathon, not a sprint, and if you burn out your best pitchers making sure you win your bet, that's bad for the team. There are other reasons too, but that's a major one.
So Naniwa broke an unwritten eSports law? Because they are trying to make eSports into a "legitimate" sport.
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On October 30 2013 00:25 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:18 InvictusRage wrote:On October 29 2013 18:53 Complete wrote:On October 29 2013 18:32 AlternativeEgo wrote:On October 29 2013 17:05 Martijn wrote:
My counter argument to that is that in sports you're not allowed to bet on your own team to win either because of the conflict of interest. But you are allowed to bet on your own team to win. I was under the impression that most professional athletes aren't allowed to bet on their own sports league. You are correct. Pete Rose was banned from MLB for betting on his own team to win when he was a player-manager. The problem with that is that Rose had an incentive to win the particular game that he was betting on instead of doing what was best for the team. That's to say, in baseball they play 162 games; it's a marathon, not a sprint, and if you burn out your best pitchers making sure you win your bet, that's bad for the team. There are other reasons too, but that's a major one. So Naniwa broke an unwritten eSports law? Because they are trying to make eSports into a "legitimate" sport.
No, because the circumstance was different.
Pete Rose bet on his own performance to win a game. Possibly overplaying his top players not allowing them to rest in order to win a random bo1. He is literally hurting his own team to better his goals.
Naniwa is not betting on himself and is not part of any the matches Revival would be playing in. He's simply telling players who are already doing their best to beat Revival that there is a possible $500 for them should they succeed at their own goals.
Which is why you can't bet on yourself--but you can bet on others.
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The smiley face @ the end of the tweet seems like a pretty good sign that Nani is kidding. he probably would'nt have done it on his twitter otherwise ^^
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Pretty sure he was serious. Makes perfect sense especially considering his past in korea where he had to play useless matches that he threw (probe rush!). But the perfect part is.. if he's not allowed to or he gets to much negative feedback for it he can always fall back on it being meant as a joke.
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A player needs another player to lose so he can advance.
Since the oppponents of the other player have no incentive to try he gives them one.
Did I miss the drama?
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Quick glance over the past few pages...
Seriously? People are making a huge controversy over this? Honestly I really don't see the issue, the theory is that everyone should be trying their hardest all of the time but the reality is that sometimes people don't; if the outcome of a game doesn't matter then there is little incentive.
To counteract that Naniwa trying to put some incentive into games in the hope of getting to Blizzcon...well I just can't exactly see what everyone is getting worked up over. He's not "manipulating the system" or something, he's attempting to encourage people to care about games that don't matter to other players but that matter to him. Its not like he's bribing Revival to throw a game.
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I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot.
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On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot.
In the NFL the Saints got in trouble for putting a bounty out on opposing star players. They wanted there defensive players to hurt and knock out the opposing players. THis is just an example of how it could be bad. Not that Naniwa is doing this or anything. It is not like he paying someone to take a fall for his benefit, he just wants players to play there best to knock out someone.
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On October 30 2013 00:49 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot. In the NFL the Saints got in trouble for putting a bounty out on opposing star players. They wanted there defensive players to hurt and knock out the opposing players. THis is just an example of how it could be bad. Not that Naniwa is doing this or anything. It is not like he paying someone to take a fall for his benefit, he just wants players to play there best to knock out someone.
But the difference is Naniwa is not asking them to do something that is illegal or against the rules, he is just giving them more incentive. Think about it as the saints head coach offering to take the defense out to dinner if they didnt allow any points in the 2nd quarter
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On October 30 2013 00:49 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot. In the NFL the Saints got in trouble for putting a bounty out on opposing star players. They wanted there defensive players to hurt and knock out the opposing players. THis is just an example of how it could be bad. Not that Naniwa is doing this or anything. It is not like he paying someone to take a fall for his benefit, he just wants players to play there best to knock out someone.
Totally different.
What they did was put a bounty on "taking out" players to injure them and make them unable to play. What Naniwa is doing is the equivalent of players being offered a bounty for winning a game.
Now if Naniwa was offering a bounty to anyone who could break Revival's wrists you might have a point...
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 30 2013 00:09 Storm71 wrote:
I didn't see anyone offering a bounty to Naniwa's opponents when HE was playing his challenger league matches.
LOL @ the notion that this isn't shady.
I don't see anything wrong with it.
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On October 30 2013 00:53 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:49 HeeroFX wrote:On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot. In the NFL the Saints got in trouble for putting a bounty out on opposing star players. They wanted there defensive players to hurt and knock out the opposing players. THis is just an example of how it could be bad. Not that Naniwa is doing this or anything. It is not like he paying someone to take a fall for his benefit, he just wants players to play there best to knock out someone. Totally different. What they did was put a bounty on "taking out" players to injure them and make them unable to play. What Naniwa is doing is the equivalent of players being offered a bounty for winning a game. Now if Naniwa was offering a bounty to anyone who could break Revival's wrists you might have a point...
I don't know who Ethan Iacobozzi is but looks like that guy is in trouble!
:D
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This sounds kind of fun and will increase the hype a lot. But what do I know? I'm just a biased swede :-D Go Naniwa!
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On October 29 2013 18:32 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 17:05 Martijn wrote:
My counter argument to that is that in sports you're not allowed to bet on your own team to win either because of the conflict of interest. But you are allowed to bet on your own team to win.
No.. No professional sports that I know of allow you to bet money on your own team to win. Just like Nani is trying to influence Revivals opponents to target Revival more. Most sports don't allow it because games where you bet a lot of money to win count more, whereas in games you don't have a lot of money on the line you might save your strength.
On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot.
Even if it were coming from his own team, there's still a difference between your team giving you a bonus for winning matches and your team giving you a bonus to target and knock out a specific player. Additionally, I disagree that it doesn't matter whether this comes from his own team or from a third player as well. The motivation behind it is objectionable. Of course, the only reason that there's any debate here is that we don't have any rules. This is the first time I know of that a player has done something like this. It's a gray area and we'd probably be better off if their were clear rules on where we draw the line.
What we haven't considered in this thread yet; didn't Nani have the same incentive as Revival to do well in WCS this season? The points were just as important to Nani as they are now for Revival. So why should Revival now be targeted specifically, when no one gave Nani the same treatment? Isn't it kind of silly to complain about players not having enough motivation to beat Revival, when he was in the same situation?
That's why we should be glad Revival doesn't seem to object. If he did have a problem with it, there could've been trouble.
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On October 30 2013 00:53 YourGoodFriend wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:49 HeeroFX wrote:On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot. In the NFL the Saints got in trouble for putting a bounty out on opposing star players. They wanted there defensive players to hurt and knock out the opposing players. THis is just an example of how it could be bad. Not that Naniwa is doing this or anything. It is not like he paying someone to take a fall for his benefit, he just wants players to play there best to knock out someone. But the difference is Naniwa is not asking them to do something that is illegal or against the rules, he is just giving them more incentive. Think about it as the saints head coach offering to take the defense out to dinner if they didnt allow any points in the 2nd quarter
It would be similar to the 49ers head coach wiring payments to Saints players for beating the Seahawks.
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The fact that Teamliquid cares about this a whole lot just makes it more obvious that Brood War is long gone. RIP
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On October 30 2013 00:49 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2013 00:43 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't see the issue with motivating people more outside of regular tournament payments. In Proleague players receive bonuses from their teams as well. There are countless of examples of athletes getting paid more (outside of the prize money) based on the results they are getting. Whether this comes from Naniwa or someone else I don't see what it matters. The rules and regulations on this in other sports vary a lot. In the NFL the Saints got in trouble for putting a bounty out on opposing star players. They wanted there defensive players to hurt and knock out the opposing players. THis is just an example of how it could be bad. Not that Naniwa is doing this or anything. It is not like he paying someone to take a fall for his benefit, he just wants players to play there best to knock out someone.
Most stupid argument ever. It's just a completely different thing :D
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EPT
