EPTExcept in every MoW thread there was 120+ pages of hate and close this MoW-joke-scam asap. But now we have a head of big american team behave like this and somehow the discussion is vastly different. Strange.
Departing Quantic, how I was mistreated in it. - Page 18
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mijagi182
Poland797 Posts
Except in every MoW thread there was 120+ pages of hate and close this MoW-joke-scam asap. But now we have a head of big american team behave like this and somehow the discussion is vastly different. Strange. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 04 2013 06:18 1MaSsan wrote: Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred. I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally. Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place.  The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 04 2013 17:05 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally. Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place. The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again Yeah that does indeed sound like "massan if you shut up you can get your money back". Which is something they might say considering that massan has nothing legal to back up the fact that he's in possession of that money. This infers that the way they're handling the situation remains pretty shady. The most professional thing they could do in this situation is fire Simon and release a statement about how his poor conduct with actual money (something much more serious than what most witch hunts have aimed for in the past) lead to them firing him. If they don't, Quantic just loses face. | ||
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yosisoy
Israel202 Posts
On October 04 2013 17:05 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally. Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place. The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again What do you mean higher-ups? Doesn't get much higher up than the owner of the team, as far as I know. How the hell can anyone interpret this incident as a miscommunication? Unless Simon can't read/write, this is a flat out attempted scam, done poorly. I also love this ridiculous joint statement. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 04 2013 17:13 yosisoy wrote: What do you mean higher-ups? Doesn't get much higher up than the owner of the team, as far as I know. How the hell can anyone interpret this incident as a miscommunication? Unless Simon can't read/write, this is a flat out attempted scam, done poorly. I also love this ridiculous joint statement. I never said that the incidence was not a miscommunication, but what arised out of it was "more than a simple miscommunication" and referring to it as a miscommunication or misunderstanding is, at least in my opinion, talking it small. | ||
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fobtasticfury
United States17 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On October 04 2013 17:05 JustPassingBy wrote: I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally. Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place. The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again Sorry - misread this as "each party blamed the other of defecating money." lol'd. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
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Nimic
Norway1360 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't. I don't think he means stealing as in literally pocketing the money. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. Personally, I think it pretty much counts as stealing even if he didn't get to cancel the ticket. It's still $1400 less for MasSan and a tangible benefit for Simon in miles. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't. This is pretty much the conclusion I came to. What I really disliked most is how Simon tried to draw Massan into the whole "I let you live at my place and that's how you show your gratitude?" straw man to try and cover up the mistakes he made. That's just... not just incompetent managing, that's just blatantly being an asshole. Especially if you're not aware of all the circumstances, which apparently neither side was. His personal ties with Massan have absolutely nothing to do with their business relationship. Well, shouldn't have, I guess. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:09 Nimic wrote: I don't think he means stealing as in literally pocketing the money. Personally, I think it pretty much counts as stealing even if he didn't get to cancel the ticket. It's still $1400 less for MasSan and a tangible benefit for Simon in miles. I think that is a pretty strange way of looking at it. The mileage is just a minor residue effect from failing as a manager, there's no way this was intended as a setup to gain mileage. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't. Well, it's kind of like a thief stealing a car for a get away, in the process of doing that he wrecks the car during the police chase or when he's safe he dumps it into a pond to cover his tracks. He doesn't keep the car does he? However, the owner of the car had his car stolen and the value of that car is lost to the car owner. The thief still stole the car, even if he didn't gain monetary value out if it. You could probably fill this analogy full of holes (escape could be considered a value or something) but this is pretty much what happened here. The manager took the player's money, fucked up with that money and instead of trying to fix his own fuck up, he just tells the player to go away. Massan would have lost 1400$ without anything in return. Sure, Simon wouldn't have gained anything from it, but that doesn't mean it still isn't theft. In this case Simon's 1400$ mistake is covered by Massan's money.. I guess you could play on semantics, point being Simon was ready to burn 1400$ of cash that was't his without even trying to fix the problem. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18582 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:12 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I think that is a pretty strange way of looking at it. The mileage is just a minor residue effect from failing as a manager, there's no way this was intended as a setup to gain mileage. massan never claimed this was intended as a setup? he just got stolen 1400, what is so difficult to understand about it? | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place. So imagine I decide to sell someone a product which costs 200€. I take their money and I tell them I'll send them that product. Then I realize that I made a mistake, I spilled something on the product which renders it unusable (in the process, I lost 200€). Since nothing has been signed, I'm entitled to just keep the money without sending them back either their money or a replacement product. ^How is that not theft? Someone will have to explain the subtleties of the semantics around theft because I'm clearly not getting. | ||
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Grollicus
Germany287 Posts
Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it? | ||
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place. Your 'never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity' attitude is ruining a perfectly entertaining pitchforking. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it? Good point actually. If Simon had given the ticket to Massan (even if he couldn't use it) then it wouldn't count as theft. It would indeed just be incompetence. So whether or not this is a theft of scam solely depends on whether not Simon at least gave Massan his useless ticket. I'm wondering if he didn't, why else couldn't Massan try to fix his shitty ticket on his own? Edit: Yeah, it's pretty much theft when Simon says "good luck getting a refund". This pretty much implies that Massan isn't in possession of his useless plane ticket. Simon has it and he's holding on to it. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place. I don't know whether "incompetence" is the right word. To me "incompetence" implies that it is not done deliberately, but out of ignorance. However, according to Masan, Simon had the opportunity to change the ticket, was asked to and yet refused to do so. In my opinion, that is not incompetence, but maliciousness. | ||
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