To supporters of this thread: Thank you so much for supporting me handling this situation, and thanks to your help, here it is.
I'm in a process of getting original ticket cost fully refunded from Simon himself, and I'm thankful that he made the decision right away. Due to technical difficulties, process will be finished before 10/4/2013. In detail, the payment will be made in total of two transactions, one with $999 which already happened as of 10/3/2013, and rest tomorrow.
Edit: As of Oct 6, 2013, 01:12:58 PDT, last payment is received and Simon has fully refunded the ticket which was problematic. For the last time, thank you so much. I wouldn't have received a cent without support from the crowd.
Following is a joint release from myself, Simon, and Quantic on behalf of this incident:
As some may already be aware, an unfortunate miscommunication involving the departure of Harry “MaSsan” Cheong resulted in a misunderstanding. Since the incident occurred, we have been in constant contact with MaSsan. We are currently in the process of resolving the financial aspects of this matter to ensure that all parties involved are taken care of properly. We have always put an emphasis on taking care of our players, especially in the event of a misunderstanding. We have enjoyed having MaSsan as part of Quantic Gaming, and wish him the very best in his future endeavors.
Quantic's Simon Boudreault, said "MaSsan and I have been friends for a long time; he even lived with me for a number of months. Obviously, I wish cooler heads had prevailed, but I am making sure the situation is being fully resolved. Because of our friendship, I harbor no ill feelings toward MaSsan. I am not perfect, and when friends get upset with one another, things can become emotional. I’m sorry that I allowed that to happen".
MaSan said “I’m very sorry to Simon’s family to be even mentioned in this matter. I’m very thankful for my stay, and I do not mean any harm to them or Quantic over this. In fact, I do want them to thrive in their paths. I really appreciate my supporters on this incident, and I hope you continue supporting Quantic and myself. I really enjoyed being in Quantic, and wish that amazing players like HwangSin and Hyun will continue their success along with Quantic.”
Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred.
Well at least it's drama about an organization that I haven't worked for in the past.
This is really questionable stuff from Quantic organization if it's true and I certainly hope ramifications to fix the situation will be made, but there's virtually no culpability in the industry.
Good luck Massan and I hope you succeed in your future endeavors (and get to where you need to go in the immediate future without taking too big of a financial hit).
On October 04 2013 06:28 shinyA wrote: I thought he was letting you live with him free of charge out of niceness, doesn't seem like he would try to steal from you after giving you so much
HaHa. I'd like to read skype first before you say that...
On October 04 2013 06:28 shinyA wrote: I thought he was letting you live with him free of charge out of niceness, doesn't seem like he would try to steal from you after giving you so much
HaHa. I'd like to read skype first before you say that...
I didn't read skype notes yet, in game. Will after ^_^
On October 04 2013 06:30 oberkapo wrote: I'm curious as to what he meant when he said that Hwangsin and Apoc suffered from you being at the house.
Upon that: I have given information I was fed by Simon and Wolf(quantic's sales management at the time) to Hwangsin and APoc about how things are being held together, and it wasn't all double rainbow. Simon is telling others that I have been making lies up about how awful organization is to others, to cover what I said in past. Unfortunately, I didn't lie to my teammates. However, I'd like to keep that part of conversation away, since it has confidential information like player salary, spending of the organization, which is what we shouldn't be focusing on. I don't want to hurt the teammates that I left behind.
Eveytime I see these skype logs I'm just baffeled with the level of unproffesionalism. Seriously, the boss of quantic gaming can't spell, doesn't answer etc. It just looks so bad. Surely a organisation like Quatic should have better ways to talk to their players then skype chat -.-.
Anyway, looks bad for Quantic, sure this will cause some heads to roll.
Wow, the level of professionalism from quantic management is laughable. Regardless of what happened, anyone who types like that has lost all my respect/support for the organization.
I'm curious to see the other side of the story, hope people donate money to help you out Massan (: Go Canada.
Doesnt look like anyone tried to scam anyone here. Just extreme incompetence on the side of the Quantic manager. And dishonesty when he tries to cover his fails up.
Even though there's no reason why MaSsan would lie about this, and I feel truly sorry for him (as I believe what he claims) we have to be extremely careful with taking screen-shots for 'real' and 'actual' evidence and facts. As true as these screen-shots may be, as falsified can Simon show them with different texts... and vice versa. I feel it's good that you published this information as it is important to other (potential future) players and partners as it's relevant. However... imagine the scenario where Simon is actually not to blame and he and MaSsan both mutually decided upon the wrong date by complete accident... (I'm not taking his side, just saying.)
On October 04 2013 06:44 Avs wrote: Don't ever hand your money over to someone who's promising better deals without showing it to you first.
well good for you that you're above ever trusting a person or considering anyone a friend who might betray you. i guess you're smarter than the rest of us with our "human relationships"
On October 04 2013 06:42 Patjuh.xpressiv wrote: Even though there's no reason why MaSsan would lie about this, and I feel truly sorry for him (as I believe what he claims) we have to be extremely careful with taking screen-shots for 'real' and 'actual' evidence and facts. As true as these screen-shots may be, as falsified can Simon show them with different texts... and vice versa. I feel it's good that you published this information as it is important to other (potential future) players and partners as it's relevant. However... imagine the scenario where Simon is actually not to blame and he and MaSsan both mutually decided upon the wrong date by complete accident... (I'm not taking his side, just saying.)
I tried my best putting all of it together continuously by placing conversation at the bottom again on next screen shot. If Simon actually decides make fake screenshots, I can make this vod as well, so u know it's not cropped. I can post paypal payment that I gave him, and ticket flight details if needed. All this I have done it to IC3, and only will do it if needed, since it'll include some private details.
On October 04 2013 06:37 Badfatpanda wrote: That's a shame, I'd like to hear Simon's statement on all this. Best of luck broseph, you're a good zerg and a good person!
His account is going to be the closest thing to PR bullshit that eSports can do. He's already shown his actual position through these Skype logs and a public apology isn't really what's needed (try compensating Massan first).
I hope Massan knows he's got support and that we're all hoping this gets resolved professionally.
I wish I could help ya out man after reading this but I can't. All I can say if this is true than Simon is an ultimate scumbag for taking advantage of a kid on his team.
On October 04 2013 06:45 Fujikura wrote: Simon will be making a response on my account, shortly. I think.
I really hope for Quantic's sake that Simon doesn't try to defend himself or anything like that. Seems to me like retaliating is the WORST option available right now... :/
On October 04 2013 06:45 Fujikura wrote: Simon will be making a response on my account, shortly. I think.
I really hope for Quantic's sake that Simon doesn't try to defend himself or anything like that. Seems to me like retaliating is the WORST option available right now... :/
+1, he's already in a pretty deep pit, no need to continue digging..
I expect simon coming out with some words saying "Massan is full of lies, everything he is saying is lie. I'm quantic gamings owner. you should trust me instead."
Another terrible organization in the esports scene. Shame on Simon for being a horrible person in this situation. Massan is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life and deserves all of the respect in the world. Someone who would steal from him and even tell lies to hurt his image deserves the worst.
Well this sucks. Losing $1400 just attempting to get back home for awhile...I don't even. Well hopefully something comes of this and you can always go on the hunt for a team I suppose. Just depressing to see this happen.
Honestly don't think you even needed the evidence for anyone that actually knows you. I really doubt anoyne could believe such things from someone. It's really sad what people in a place of authority can get others to believe though...
I hope you get your money back man, and I feel sorry for what you went through~
i'd like to hear the other side of the story before i decide who the asshole is and how much asshole said person be. but as it stands Quantic better have some good excuses for robbing a dude.
This unprofessionalism is exactly why I didn't join Quantic after the merger. Simon had been like this at the time - and if you recall Massan - I explicitly warned you that he'd failed to fulfill promises for me as well.
On October 04 2013 06:55 FXOTheoRy wrote: Another terrible organization in the esports scene. Shame on Simon for being a horrible person in this situation. Massan is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life and deserves all of the respect in the world. Someone who would steal from him and even tell lies to hurt his image deserves the worst.
He's just the Head of the Esports department. He isn't nearly the most powerful person in the organization.
On October 04 2013 06:29 Ctone23 wrote: A mans word is all he has at times.... you told them you wouldn't say anything yet you did.
Hey it's your life, but trust is uncommon these days so I don't know why you chose to break that.
Good luck in everything you do.
There's no integrity in eSports, so don't say retarded shit like that. With an atmosphere of everyone wants to get theirs a lot of people get screwed over.
On October 04 2013 06:55 FXOTheoRy wrote: Another terrible organization in the esports scene. Shame on Simon for being a horrible person in this situation. Massan is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life and deserves all of the respect in the world. Someone who would steal from him and even tell lies to hurt his image deserves the worst.
He's just the Head of the Esports department. He isn't nearly the most powerful person in the organization.
It makes me wonder if Simon actually tried to find out any information for you, his player. Surely if he understood your situation, no flight would have ever been booked that was over the visa limit (even if you gave incorrect dates). Upon finding out the flight date was wrong, surely he would have tried his best to change the flight date or help cover the costs to get it changed.
Even if Simon was in the right, it's fucking harsh to leave your player stranded $1400 out of pocket, then just write them off then they get upset when you seem disinterested in trying to help them out.
On October 04 2013 06:55 FXOTheoRy wrote: Another terrible organization in the esports scene. Shame on Simon for being a horrible person in this situation. Massan is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life and deserves all of the respect in the world. Someone who would steal from him and even tell lies to hurt his image deserves the worst.
He's just the Head of the Esports department. He isn't nearly the most powerful person in the organization.
On October 04 2013 06:56 Eifer wrote: This unprofessionalism is exactly why I didn't join Quantic after the merger. Simon had been like this at the time - and if you recall Massan - I explicitly warned you that he'd failed to fulfill promises for me as well.
On October 04 2013 06:50 Grettin wrote: Shocker, Quantic's a godawful organisation. Nothing new.
Sad to see you getting screwed.
Organisation ran by a guy who books a member of that organisations travel on their daddy's credit card.
Organisation ran by a guy without his own credit card/ bank account
Organisation... ???
I hear over in the US they have lemonade stands in the suburbs ran by kids. I bet even they are more organised than that...
Edit -
On October 04 2013 07:01 Fionn wrote: I read this whole thing thinking that Quantic Simon was just a personnel manager or something. Then I found out he's the owner of the entire team?
Shit, man.
Owner
Oh bloody ell.... I assumed he was just one of their managers or something.
From the skype logs it seems like you both ordered the tickets together, in person, side by side. If you were in the room, looking at the booking and made the booking and then gave him the money then it's not really his fault that the dates were wrong. That's what it looks like happened from the logs. After that, I'm not really sure why Simon didn't just reschedule the flight for you and have you pay the difference, that's what I don't understand. I think the comments in this thread are pretty idiotic though.
Ouch that is pretty brutal... and some clear cut evidence... I normally hold judgement until both sides are presented but doesn't look like I need to in this case o.O
I hope the other players don't get screwed over as well D:
On October 04 2013 07:04 shinyA wrote: From the skype logs it seems like you both ordered the tickets together, in person, side by side. If you were in the room, looking at the booking and made the booking and then gave him the money then it's not really his fault that the dates were wrong. That's what it looks like happened from the logs. After that, I'm not really sure why Simon didn't just reschedule the flight for you and have you pay the difference, that's what I don't understand. I think the comments in this thread are pretty idiotic though.
It would have been simple enough for him to reschedule and let Massan pay the >$150. Instead he kicks Massan off the team after pocketing $1400 illegally.
That's why people are making the comments they are about the situation.
You paid 1400 US dollars, to a ranking individual within a business organization that you are an employee of, for the purchase of a product on your behalf that met certain guidelines. That individual made an error in that purchase and the product that you received was not what you had requested. The case could be made that you should have double checked, but perhaps the real argument here is that you should not have placed as much trust in the management of the business organization that is Quantic Gaming.
Furthermore, Quantic Gaming, as a business, should be ashamed of itself that a central member of their organization has been caught up in a scandal such as this. An individual that is a member of your management team has behaved like a petulant child, refusing to acknowledged his errors, repeatedly lying to his subordinates, failing to make himself reasonably available for communication, stealing from employees, and making every excuse possible to make it not his fault. During this conversation Simon claimed that his mistake was Masaans for several ridiculous reasons including, but not limited to, Masaan received housing at Simon's house, as if that is justification for him then failing to do what he was responsible for and then proceeding to steal 1400 US dollars from a struggling young man. His behavior is even more inexcusable since he later stated that he intended to slander his own employee to everyone in an effort to justify his mistake.
At any official business this behavior would result in immediate dismissal. As a fan of Quantic Gaming I am disgusted and you should no longer consider me a fan or supporter of any player you employ including watching any Quanitc stream to support add revenue. However, if as an organization you value your appearance and ethics you will promptly fire Simon and order him to repay all funds misused by him. If he refuses then as public display of contrition you should assist Masaan in pursuing his grievance lawfully against this pathetic excuse for a business executive.
I have been a small business executive for years. The company that I work for owns over 20 fast food franchises in Dayton, Ohio area. We would never tolerate this behavior from any employee right down to the cashier in on of our stores let alone one of the executives of the organization and Quantic shouldn't either.
On October 04 2013 07:04 shinyA wrote: From the skype logs it seems like you both ordered the tickets together, in person, side by side. If you were in the room, looking at the booking and made the booking and then gave him the money then it's not really his fault that the dates were wrong. That's what it looks like happened from the logs. After that, I'm not really sure why Simon didn't just reschedule the flight for you and have you pay the difference, that's what I don't understand. I think the comments in this thread are pretty idiotic though.
It would have been simple enough for him to reschedule and let Massan pay the >$150. Instead he kicks Massan off the team after pocketing $1400 illegally.
That's why people are making the comments they are about the situation.
Pretty much this. Simon reads what Massan said, throws and hissy fit and tells him that it's unfortunate that he paid as a gift because now the money is all mine!!!!!!!1!.
I've made a chat with Simon and Massan, hopefully we can resolve the issue, Simon also has a statement written and may post it on my account when he sees fit. Sorry for any damage this may have caused Massan and the community, for now please be patient.
On October 04 2013 06:55 FXOTheoRy wrote: Another terrible organization in the esports scene. Shame on Simon for being a horrible person in this situation. Massan is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life and deserves all of the respect in the world. Someone who would steal from him and even tell lies to hurt his image deserves the worst.
He's just the Head of the Esports department. He isn't nearly the most powerful person in the organization.
well they're a pretty terrible organization in my book if they aren't taking care of this simon figure
On October 04 2013 07:07 Fujikura wrote: I've made a chat with Simon and Massan, hopefully we can resolve the issue, Simon also has a statement written and may post it on my account when he sees fit. Sorry for any damage this may have caused Massan and the community, for now please be patient.
I wonder if he'll use the skypelogs to back his case.
This totally sucks; I thought Quantic had more professionalism than this. Don't understand why he would book the ticket at the wrong time just to screw Massan over.
Wow That skype log...Dear Quantic, if you want any hope of being saved then go into crisis control: 1) Refund MaSsan 2)Formally Apologize for the actions taken by Simon and 3) Fire Simon. Those are literally your only options as I see it :/
I'm sorry that happened to you MaSsan! I hope you find a team that values you as a player and a friend!
On October 04 2013 07:07 Fujikura wrote: I've made a chat with Simon and Massan, hopefully we can resolve the issue, Simon also has a statement written and may post it on my account when he sees fit. Sorry for any damage this may have caused Massan and the community, for now please be patient.
Who are you, just out of interest? Good news though, hopefully this can be sorted, though I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Simon in Quantic after this.
On October 04 2013 07:07 Fujikura wrote: I've made a chat with Simon and Massan, hopefully we can resolve the issue, Simon also has a statement written and may post it on my account when he sees fit. Sorry for any damage this may have caused Massan and the community, for now please be patient.
Who are you, just out of interest? Good news though, hopefully this can be sorted, though I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Simon in Quantic after this.
it doesnt have to do with anything really but it's weird that hes talking about his fathers credit card. When I played for him in CSS, he told us that his father died and he received all his money and became boss of his company. And thats how he was able to afford all this (he's like 21 or something). Now I just wonder if he was lying to us or you
On October 04 2013 07:07 Fujikura wrote: I've made a chat with Simon and Massan, hopefully we can resolve the issue, Simon also has a statement written and may post it on my account when he sees fit. Sorry for any damage this may have caused Massan and the community, for now please be patient.
Who are you, just out of interest? Good news though, hopefully this can be sorted, though I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving Simon in Quantic after this.
On October 04 2013 07:04 shinyA wrote: From the skype logs it seems like you both ordered the tickets together, in person, side by side. If you were in the room, looking at the booking and made the booking and then gave him the money then it's not really his fault that the dates were wrong. That's what it looks like happened from the logs. After that, I'm not really sure why Simon didn't just reschedule the flight for you and have you pay the difference, that's what I don't understand. I think the comments in this thread are pretty idiotic though.
It would have been simple enough for him to reschedule and let Massan pay the >$150. Instead he kicks Massan off the team after pocketing $1400 illegally.
That's why people are making the comments they are about the situation.
There could be a problem though with the fact that Massan already took one of the flights, if the flights were booked together and he already took the flight from canada to atlanta then maybe they wouldn't let them change the 2nd part? I don't know but if I put myself in Simons shoes and had someone sit next to me and tell me what to book for them, I book it, and then they come at me trying to get a refund and stuff then I might say it's not my fault because that's what we booked together. We don't really know the details, I just don't understand why if Simon would let Massan live with him for 3 months and pay for his food and etc then why would he intentionally try to rip off Massan? Obviously this wasn't the intention, they booked the flight together. Everything was fine until it was realized that he needed to change the flight schedule. There was no "scam", Massan couldn't contact the airline with the exact details while Simon could. Massan could only ask them general questions whereas Simon would have called with the flight number, credit card information, etc and then ask about rescheduling the flight. We don't know what they told him. Plenty of flights will advertise "hassle free service" which was what Massan was referring to in the OP but everyone should know that what's advertised isn't generally what it's like.
On October 04 2013 07:10 InfectedGoat wrote: it doesnt have to do with anything really but it's weird that hes talking about his fathers credit card. When I played for him in CSS, he told us that his father died and he received all his money and became boss of his company. And thats how he was able to afford all this (he's like 21 or something). Now I just wonder if he was lying to us or you
Or both. Probably lied to you to make him seem more "badass" or something. But yeah, interesting drama.
On October 04 2013 06:50 Grettin wrote: Shocker, Quantic's a godawful organisation. Nothing new.
Sad to see you getting screwed.
Organisation ran by a guy who books a member of that organisations travel on their daddy's credit card.
Organisation ran by a guy without his own credit card/ bank account
Organisation... ???
I hear over in the US they have lemonade stands in the suburbs ran by kids. I bet even they are more organised than that...
Edit -
Business, team, organisation, company, who the fuck cares. Point still stands.
Er, what?
It's not like my statement was disagreeing with you in any way... I just highlighted your post because it made me think 'wait, is this even organised enough to be called that?'.
On October 04 2013 06:56 Eifer wrote: This unprofessionalism is exactly why I didn't join Quantic after the merger. Simon had been like this at the time - and if you recall Massan - I explicitly warned you that he'd failed to fulfill promises for me as well.
I do remember that. Maybe we can have a chatter
Nothing to talk about really. Your post says it all.
On October 04 2013 07:04 shinyA wrote: From the skype logs it seems like you both ordered the tickets together, in person, side by side. If you were in the room, looking at the booking and made the booking and then gave him the money then it's not really his fault that the dates were wrong. That's what it looks like happened from the logs. After that, I'm not really sure why Simon didn't just reschedule the flight for you and have you pay the difference, that's what I don't understand. I think the comments in this thread are pretty idiotic though.
It would have been simple enough for him to reschedule and let Massan pay the >$150. Instead he kicks Massan off the team after pocketing $1400 illegally.
That's why people are making the comments they are about the situation.
There could be a problem though with the fact that Massan already took one of the flights, if the flights were booked together and he already took the flight from canada to atlanta then maybe they wouldn't let them change the 2nd part? I don't know but if I put myself in Simons shoes and had someone sit next to me and tell me what to book for them, I book it, and then they come at me trying to get a refund and stuff then I might say it's not my fault because that's what we booked together. We don't really know the details, I just don't understand why if Simon would let Massan live with him for 3 months and pay for his food and etc then why would he intentionally try to rip off Massan? Obviously this wasn't the intention, they booked the flight together. Everything was fine until it was realized that he needed to change the flight schedule. There was no "scam", Massan couldn't contact the airline with the exact details while Simon could. Massan could only ask them general questions whereas Simon would have called with the flight number, credit card information, etc and then ask about rescheduling the flight. We don't know what they told him. Plenty of flights will advertise "hassle free service" which was what Massan was referring to in the OP but everyone should know that what's advertised isn't generally what it's like.
You can still find workarounds for many situations, and if Simon was so pressed/busy he couldn't do his job effectively he should have given the flight information to Massan or a player manager to do the job instead.
Unfortunately in most eSports organizations the owners/CEOs (from what I've seen) are too directly tied to the day-to-day fiscal operations rather than being able to delegate and that's when mistakes are made.
I think most of you people are reacting too violently,what does insulting quantic will improve ? Nothing.
Before posting all of this on TL you didn't even think to talk about this matter with the other quantic operators such as Fujikura massan ? That's kind of a dumb decision. Even if the head of the state is an idiot it doesn't mean his ministers are too.
This is very unprofessional from both quantic and massan,and always in sc2 people can't solve their problems by using their brains.
We'll have to see if this has far reaching consequences. Quantic is a huge esports organization with squads in SC2, Dota 2, and LoL. Having a manager that would do this horrible to hear.
However, I have trouble seeing this as a scam set up over a length of time. It seems like a miscommunication, followed by a manager deciding he didn't care about the player anymore and decided not to put the effort into getting his money back.
Anyway I'll sit back and wait for an official response from Quantic.
On October 04 2013 07:16 shid0x wrote: I think most of you people are reacting too violently,what does insulting quantic will improve ? Nothing.
Before posting all of this on TL you didn't even think to talk about this matter with the other quantic operators such as Fujikura massan ? That's kind of a dumb decision. Even if the head of the state is an idiot it doesn't mean his ministers are too.
This is very unprofessional from both quantic and massan,and always in sc2 people can't solve their problems by using their brains.
I wouldn't hate too hard on Massan. I mean the guy was spreading rumors and lies about him within the team after kicking him. Massan probably freaked a little when that happened and needed to tell people he was innocent.
On October 04 2013 07:16 shid0x wrote: I think most of you people are reacting too violently,what does insulting quantic will improve ? Nothing.
Before posting all of this on TL you didn't even think to talk about this matter with the other quantic operators such as Fujikura massan ? That's kind of a dumb decision. Even if the head of the state is an idiot it doesn't mean his ministers are too.
This is very unprofessional from both quantic and massan,and always in sc2 people can't solve their problems by using their brains.
Did you even read this post? MaSsan is trying to save his reputation and was also robbed. Massan did nothing unprofessional here. You should try to use your brain.
On October 04 2013 07:16 shid0x wrote: I think most of you people are reacting too violently,what does insulting quantic will improve ? Nothing.
Before posting all of this on TL you didn't even think to talk about this matter with the other quantic operators such as Fujikura massan ? That's kind of a dumb decision. Even if the head of the state is an idiot it doesn't mean his ministers are too.
This is very unprofessional from both quantic and massan,and always in sc2 people can't solve their problems by using their brains.
The guy was spreading lies about massan what do you want him to do?
I think most of you people are reacting too violently,what does insulting quantic will improve ? Nothing.
Before posting all of this on TL you didn't even think to talk about this matter with the other quantic operators such as Fujikura massan ? That's kind of a dumb decision. Even if the head of the state is an idiot it doesn't mean his ministers are too.
This is very unprofessional from both quantic and massan,and always in sc2 people can't solve their problems by using their brains.
The point of this was that he was attempting to slander Massan and that was when he made this post not because he expected to get the money back. From the information available it might be impossible to get a full refund on the ticket due to the time now too. That said he used his money to buy the ticket and it won't be used so if any money can be refunded to Massan that would, I imagine, be welcome.
On October 04 2013 07:16 shid0x wrote: I think most of you people are reacting too violently,what does insulting quantic will improve ? Nothing.
Before posting all of this on TL you didn't even think to talk about this matter with the other quantic operators such as Fujikura massan ? That's kind of a dumb decision. Even if the head of the state is an idiot it doesn't mean his ministers are too.
This is very unprofessional from both quantic and massan,and always in sc2 people can't solve their problems by using their brains.
Did you even read this post? MaSsan is trying to save his reputation and was also robbed. Massan did nothing unprofessional here. You should try to use your brain.
He seems really desperate to defend Simon in the situation.
I'm not really sure what he expects Massan to do when Simon clearly is taking his money with no regard to him.
On October 04 2013 07:25 Zeon0 wrote: is there a tl:dr version?
Massan/Simon/Quantic mishandle flight info, Massan loses $1400 and gets kicked off team. Yet to hear anything official from Quantic besides "wait for statement"
On his dad's credit card...professionalism in esports.
I don't know what to say, I am truly baffled as to why a plabe ticket would be bought on a manager's relative's credit card as opposed to a company card. Players really just need to stop joining cowboy teams and teams need staff who are not teenagers and have some experience in business.
On October 04 2013 07:28 hzflank wrote: On his dad's credit card...professionalism in esports.
I don't know what to say, I am truly baffled as to why a plabe ticket would be bought on a manager's relative's credit card as opposed to a company card. Players really just need to stop joining cowboy teams and teams need staff who are not teenagers and have some experience in business.
You have to have money to hire people like that, don't need money to get teenagers/college students into management positions.
On October 04 2013 07:25 Zeon0 wrote: is there a tl:dr version?
Need to book a flight Booked but wrong (needs to be 90 days rather 91 days) Massan trying to resolve it and needs Simon (owner) to help since it's under his account Simon saw it as a threat from Massan and refuses to help Simon keeps Massan's $1400 and leaves him to rot Simon informs his players that Massan was trying to backstab the team Massan comes out to prove his innocence in this scenario
Fucking hell, this is my 15th fucking pitchfork and I've already fucking ruined about 10 already. Last time I borrowed a pitchfork from a guy but I'm really sick and tired of borrowing pitchforks.
WTH man... Do I really need a pitchfork? Can I just use my bare hands???? I'm sick and tired of this TBH. Also... they should create more durable pitchforks.
On October 04 2013 07:25 Zeon0 wrote: is there a tl:dr version?
Massan/Simon/Quantic mishandle flight info, Massan loses $1400 and gets kicked off team. Yet to hear anything official from Quantic besides "wait for statement"
Did I miss anything?
We also learned, finally, why Eifer did not join Quantic and has disliked them since they became a team again.
On October 04 2013 07:25 Zeon0 wrote: is there a tl:dr version?
Massan/Simon/Quantic mishandle flight info, Massan loses $1400 and gets kicked off team. Yet to hear anything official from Quantic besides "wait for statement"
Did I miss anything?
Forgot to add the part where Simon framed Massan of stealing/lying/trying to scam for $1,400.
how old is this kid? a kid using dad's credit card running an esports team?? Quantic was once the nicest team to be part of, the new Quantic after merger seems like a fcking joke. this unprofessionalism is too much..pff
On October 04 2013 07:30 ThePrince wrote: Fucking hell, this is my 15th fucking pitchfork and I've already fucking ruined about 10 already. Last time I borrowed a pitchfork from a guy but I'm really sick and tired of borrowing pitchforks.
WTH man... Do I really need a pitchfork? Can I just use my bare hands???? I'm sick and tired of this TBH. Also... they should create more durable pitchforks.
On October 04 2013 06:55 FXOTheoRy wrote: Another terrible organization in the esports scene. Shame on Simon for being a horrible person in this situation. Massan is one of the nicest people I have ever met in my life and deserves all of the respect in the world. Someone who would steal from him and even tell lies to hurt his image deserves the worst.
Can't say it better... Massan was the best teammate I've ever had in any game online or off.
In the end, even if the flight was 2 part flight, I have never seen what amounts to a 90 day "stop over". Its likely 2 tickets one to the US from Canada, and another from US to Korea, even if it is one ticket you know what, I think most airlines would let you change one day earlier if you say its due to a VISA issue. And he offered to pay the difference, just as he DID pay the whole ticket price at no small sum either.
On October 04 2013 07:34 Fionn wrote: i will chip in $200 a month from my grandfather's credit card
This. Wasn't there a thread before about someone wanting to buy Hyun? (or some other player) Was it you Fionn? This is going to be interesting when Simon responds.
On October 04 2013 07:32 ROOTDdoRo wrote: how old is this kid? a kid using dad's credit card running an esports team?? Quantic was once the nicest team to be part of, the new Quantic after merger seems like a fcking joke. this unprofessionalism is too much..pff
This is what pissed me off the most about this situation, I really hope people reading this don't take it against the former Quantic organization. They were all great guys.
On October 04 2013 07:32 ROOTDdoRo wrote: how old is this kid? a kid using dad's credit card running an esports team?? Quantic was once the nicest team to be part of, the new Quantic after merger seems like a fcking joke. this unprofessionalism is too much..pff
This.
I miss the old Quantic days. Glad I didn't join the remake of the team.
So, seriously... does anyone even believe in legalities like contracts and written agreements anymore?
Skype logs and promises are not great ways to run any business. One of these days, a player that has the financial means to hire a lawyer and pursue legal action could put a team out of business completely for treating them in such a way.
Hell, are most teams even properly incorporated as an organization to the legal standards of their home jurisdiction?
This is a giant clusterfuck waiting to happen, and the utter disregard for anything remotely professional is starting to make me wonder.
Condolences, Massan - hopefully some decent resolution comes of the situation but I won't hold my breath.
On October 04 2013 07:34 Fionn wrote: i will chip in $200 a month from my grandfather's credit card
This. Wasn't there a thread before about someone wanting to buy Hyun? (or some other player) Was it you Fionn? This is going to be interesting when Simon responds.
On October 04 2013 07:34 Fionn wrote: i will chip in $200 a month from my grandfather's credit card
This. Wasn't there a thread before about someone wanting to buy Hyun? (or some other player) Was it you Fionn? This is going to be interesting when Simon responds.
On October 04 2013 06:36 Amestir wrote: Eveytime I see these skype logs I'm just baffeled with the level of unproffesionalism. Seriously, the boss of quantic gaming can't spell, doesn't answer etc. It just looks so bad. Surely a organisation like Quatic should have better ways to talk to their players then skype chat -.-.
Anyway, looks bad for Quantic, sure this will cause some heads to roll.
I am SO GLAD I'm not the only person who thinks this about, like, LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE DRAMA that comes out via Skype log. There has to be a better way than instant messaging - nobody used MSN for serious business talks when it was still popular because THAT'S FUCKING DUMB. You have Skype - why don't you actually face-to-face call the person? Confusion is so much easier to clear up when you're talking instead of typing.
And also, if you DO feel like conducting official business over Skype, why do you feel the need to type like you're fragging noobs in cs1.6? For real. You want to be treated like a real business in a real industry, then you should conduct yourself like a professional, not a child, and that starts with knowing how to type properly.
This Simon guy clearly has other issues with Massan, apparently that he doesn't care to back up with evidence. He says Massan told Apocalypse to leave Quantic/was bad mouthing Quantic to Apoc and Hwangsin. However, Massan tells him to provide evidence of that, and Simon just calls him a double-faced asshole.
Basically, Simon is pulling stuff out of his ass to explain why he's justified in stealing this guys money, and tries to paint himself as the victim because Massan lived in his house for a few months, despite the fact that he refused Massan's offer to pay. This better be one hell of a statement out of Quantic.
On October 04 2013 07:50 TricksAre4Figs wrote: i can't believe this many ppl care about how some chobo was mistreated by an irrelevant team looooooooool sad
And also, if you DO feel like conducting official business over Skype, why do you feel the need to type like you're fragging noobs in cs1.6? For real. You want to be treated like a real business in a real industry, then you should conduct yourself like a professional, not a child, and that starts with knowing how to type properly.
You would be surprised how poorly some people type in a professional business setting.
On October 04 2013 07:50 TricksAre4Figs wrote: i can't believe this many ppl care about how some chobo was mistreated by an irrelevant team looooooooool sad
yeah and since ur not a top player on a top pro team u should be mistreated too good logic
On October 04 2013 07:50 TricksAre4Figs wrote: i can't believe this many ppl care about how some chobo was mistreated by an irrelevant team looooooooool sad
Wow, this is quite the drama. This thread will explode and lead to a lot of apologizes, I guess.
Anyway. If the skypelog isn't fake and the situation is explained correctly, Simon is douche. He acts like a 16y old who got scammed by his best friend rather than an important figure within an organization called Quantic Gaming. I'm sry for you MaSan :S
If this information isn't correct and MaSan actually shits on Quantic like this... Wow... then sue the living crap out of him because he actually commited a crime. 2600 $ might not be much for a company but the image damage is HUGE already. In this case, I'm sry for Quantic :S
Bring in more stuff for me to judge you people! :O
On October 04 2013 07:34 Fionn wrote: i will chip in $200 a month from my grandfather's credit card
This. Wasn't there a thread before about someone wanting to buy Hyun? (or some other player) Was it you Fionn? This is going to be interesting when Simon responds.
On October 04 2013 07:50 TricksAre4Figs wrote: i can't believe this many ppl care about how some chobo was mistreated by an irrelevant team looooooooool sad
I think we are too late, the OP was edited, no idea what's going on. I guess whatever happened, Massan is talking with Quantic right now and maybe the situation gets resolved. So long the post is gone I think.
On October 04 2013 07:55 TBone- wrote: So I'm a little confused here, the op seems a little void of information now, what happened?
Well apparently Simon contacted him seemingly scared shitless now that his dirty laundry is all over TL. I can imagine he sent something to Massan saying he'll get him his money back, hoping he doesn't get any more bad publicity for his team.
If this information isn't correct and MaSan actually shits on Quantic like this... Wow... then sue the living crap out of him because he actually commited a crime. 2600 $ might not be much for a company but the image damage is HUGE already. In this case, I'm sry for Quantic :S
Suing for damages would be worthless and a waste of time even if everything Massan is saying/has posted is a complete lie the money isn't there for it to be worth the time for anyone if lawyers are involved. Also Massan paid the $2600 dollars and the $1200 for the second ticket. They are not entitled to it was only mentioned because Massan had to buy it because his $1400 ticket can't be used by him.
Actually now that I think about it suing a player would result in one of two situations 1) The player completely screwed over a team (not happening here on the scale it would have to be to be worth the image that they sue players). 2) Suit fails and they just wrongfully sued a player. What...do you do then?
On October 04 2013 07:28 hzflank wrote: On his dad's credit card...professionalism in esports.
I don't know what to say, I am truly baffled as to why a plabe ticket would be bought on a manager's relative's credit card as opposed to a company card. Players really just need to stop joining cowboy teams and teams need staff who are not teenagers and have some experience in business.
Hard to tell... You always see nice press releases from them.
On October 04 2013 07:55 TBone- wrote: So I'm a little confused here, the op seems a little void of information now, what happened?
I still had the OP open on my phone before it was edited, here you go. Sorry for the gigantic paragraph but it was the only way to copy it because even if you have the old page open when you hit quote it loads it post-edit.
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic GamingAs of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together. He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise. As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation. http://imgur.com/Li9NniKImgurlinkAs a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
On October 04 2013 07:55 TBone- wrote: So I'm a little confused here, the op seems a little void of information now, what happened?
I still had the OP open on my phone before it was edited, here you go. Sorry for the gigantic paragraph but it was the only way to copy it because even if you have the old page open when you hit quote it loads it post-edit.
+ Show Spoiler +
Why oh why do you hate me show spoiler?
Thanks for that Dodgin, even though it appears to be resolved still feel it's good to have it available in case something goes wrong or for future reference.
On October 04 2013 07:55 TBone- wrote: So I'm a little confused here, the op seems a little void of information now, what happened?
I still had the OP open on my phone before it was edited, here you go. Sorry for the gigantic paragraph but it was the only way to copy it because even if you have the old page open when you hit quote it loads it post-edit.
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic GamingAs of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together. He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise. As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation. http://imgur.com/Li9NniKImgurlinkAs a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
On October 04 2013 07:58 LeLfe wrote: feel sorry you MaSsan, but why on earth would you send $1400 to a man you're 100% you can trust?
He did just live with the man for almost 3 months and he was the manager for the team. I'm sure he felt like he could trust Simon, and rightfully so. Hindsight is 20-20
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
On October 04 2013 07:14 elfonse wrote: The head of a organization on this level still has to use his dads cc?
Welcome to esports.
CJ face time. -__-
I mean, I'm not at all surprised either way. If it's true, I'm not shocked. If it's false, I'm also not shocked.
People really really over-estimate the competency of esports organizations and players. Credibility is earned. Don't trust organizations that have been around for less than a year or two. Don't trust organizations even if they have signed big name players. Trust organizations and players that survive and show consistent, steady growth. Trust organizations that retain big name players and players that stick with reputable organizations.
On October 04 2013 07:14 elfonse wrote: The head of a organization on this level still has to use his dads cc?
Welcome to esports.
CJ face time. -__-
I mean, I'm not at all surprised either way. If it's true, I'm not shocked. If it's false, I'm also not shocked.
People really really over-estimate the competency of esports organizations and players. Credibility is earned. Don't trust organizations that have been around for less than a year or two. Don't trust organizations even if they have signed big name players. Trust organizations and players that survive and show consistent, steady growth. Trust organizations that retain big name players and players that stick with reputable organizations.
But I thought that part where they disbanded and then reformed showed a lot of team strength and strong organization?
On October 04 2013 07:14 elfonse wrote: The head of a organization on this level still has to use his dads cc?
Welcome to esports.
CJ face time. -__-
People really really over-estimate the competency of esports organizations.
I guess I fall in this category. It's just a bit sad to want to see eSports taken somewhat seriously and then every few months some shit like this happens.
On October 04 2013 08:13 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Guys, there is a reason why massan removed the OP, don't repost it later on -.- you're not making it easier for him.
If he didn't want anyone to see if he shouldn't have posted it in the first place. He got the publicity he needed to force Quantic to rectify the situation, they probably told him to delete the post as part of their deal with him. I think It's important for people to be able to see what happened, so I reposted it. I'm not invovled with esports beyond being a fan and TL user so I don't care which members of the esports illuminati I piss off(if this for some reason pisses off TLstaff/mods then they can remove it).
On October 04 2013 08:13 tree.hugger wrote: Show nested quote +
I mean, I'm not at all surprised either way. If it's true, I'm not shocked. If it's false, I'm also not shocked.
People really really over-estimate the competency of esports organizations and players. Credibility is earned. Don't trust organizations that have been around for less than a year or two. Don't trust organizations even if they have signed big name players. Trust organizations and players that survive and show consistent, steady growth. Trust organizations that retain big name players and players that stick with reputable organizations.
But I thought that part where they disbanded and then reformed showed a lot of team strength and strong organization?
Growth of a new skin counts right?
Well that's been twice quotes hate me. I guess i'm just bad at this.
On October 04 2013 08:13 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Guys, there is a reason why massan removed the OP, don't repost it later on -.- you're not making it easier for him.
Massan put the OP there for a reason, and most likely it was removed because Quantic asked him to take it down, hopefully in exchange for them helping him get his money back. That being said, I don't see why people still should not be able to see what went on.
If it is a real problem for Massan, I'm sure he would ask for it to be removed by mods or something.
On October 04 2013 07:14 elfonse wrote: The head of a organization on this level still has to use his dads cc?
Welcome to esports.
CJ face time. -__-
I mean, I'm not at all surprised either way. If it's true, I'm not shocked. If it's false, I'm also not shocked.
People really really over-estimate the competency of esports organizations and players. Credibility is earned. Don't trust organizations that have been around for less than a year or two. Don't trust organizations even if they have signed big name players. Trust organizations and players that survive and show consistent, steady growth. Trust organizations that retain big name players and players that stick with reputable organizations.
I know how it is to deal with sketchy businesses. Remember folks I used to work the nightlife and entertainment industry not too long ago. I have all kinds of stories. On the bright side, all of that happened during my youth. Live and learn.
4:00 Massan opens up with plane ticket build. 7:00 Simon hallucinates ticket. 12:00 Massan takes the bait and spends all his bank. 14:00 Simon reveals hallucination. Massan is crushed. 16:00 Simon forces Massan to GG. Massan GG's!!
Set #2 won by Massan
5:00 Massan opens up with TL post build. 10:00 Simon is unaware of Massan's build and sits passively in his base. 17:00 Massan is building up a massive army of pitchforks. 21:00 Simon sees the deathball of pitchforks. Simon taps out before battle occurs. Simon GG's!!
Set #3 6:00 Both oponents are scouting each other. 8:00 TL is unaware what their builds are. 9:00 Massan uses cloak on his original build.
smells really fishy, no love for quantic anymore reading those skype chat logs. Really unprofessional and a good thing you told the public about scamming piece of shit people...
Just saw you edit you post and you are in the talks with them....shows me how afraid this "captain" must be that reputation of this team has been thrown aways for like 1400$...
On October 04 2013 08:24 Tinzu wrote: So on a slightly more positive note what teams do you think are viable for Massan and vice versa?
Something like Root/Col/etc.
That's what I was thinking, but going a bit more in-depth he lives on the East Coast in Georgia and goes to school so ROOT seems a bit of a stretch with them being based in California. Complexity could be a good fit. Ones I had in mind were smaller but based in East Coast (not Clarity though since they are firmly entrenched in NY and though it appears to be changing nothing definitive yet with their changes to say it would work).
On October 04 2013 08:28 ThePrince wrote: Let me LR this shit.
Set #1 won by Simon:
4:00 Massan opens up with plane ticket build. 7:00 Simon hallucinates ticket. 12:00 Massan takes the bait and spends all his bank. 14:00 Simon reveals hallucination. Massan is crushed. 16:00 Simon forces Massan to GG. Massan GG's!!
Set #2 won by Massan
5:00 Massan opens up with TL post build. 10:00 Simon is unaware of Massan's build and sits passively in his base. 17:00 Massan is building up a massive army of pitchforks. 21:00 Simon sees the deathball of pitchforks. Simon taps out before battle occurs. Simon GG's!!
Set #3 6:00 Both oponents are scouting each other. 8:00 TL is unaware what their builds are. 9:00 Massan uses cloak on his original build.
......
u realize most of that ticket was halluc just saying
On October 04 2013 08:28 ThePrince wrote: Let me LR this shit.
Set #1 won by Simon:
4:00 Massan opens up with plane ticket build. 7:00 Simon hallucinates ticket. 12:00 Massan takes the bait and spends all his bank. 14:00 Simon reveals hallucination. Massan is crushed. 16:00 Simon forces Massan to GG. Massan GG's!!
Set #2 won by Massan
5:00 Massan opens up with TL post build. 10:00 Simon is unaware of Massan's build and sits passively in his base. 17:00 Massan is building up a massive army of pitchforks. 21:00 Simon sees the deathball of pitchforks. Simon taps out before battle occurs. Simon GG's!!
Set #3 6:00 Both oponents are scouting each other. 8:00 TL is unaware what their builds are. 9:00 Massan uses cloak on his original build.
......
u realize most of that ticket was halluc just saying
The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a aton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense.
I agree, you put it out there it's there. Just edit in the solution because the pitch forks are already raised. (Not mine I don't pitch fork but just saying the community is already pretty pissed)
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a aton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense.
It's probably just the Quantic guy trying to do damage control and telling him he will pay him back if he deletes it. Too late though it's already out and the shitstorm is brewing.
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
Thanks Dodgin, this is pretty Dodgy... heh
No seriously this is horrible and I hope you can get your money back/find a new team OP and thanks for exposing your story since horrid stories like this need to be quelled so people can make a safe living in eSports.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
LOL. You are so tilted that you just toppled over.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
I reposted it two pages back.
Aye, thanks Did you just happen to have it open still when you noticed the op edit? :O Too bad we can't shove it back in the op itself. A mod really should, imo. Sure, I can get being sensitive to the ops wishes, but he already put this out here and made a huge news thing about it both here and on reddit. This community would suck if people were habituated to creating threads, starting conversations and deleting the op. I'm not saying it has never happened - just that there are pretty obvious reasons why it very rarely does. I feel like it can at least be considered by forum moderation as a matter of ensuring a certain kind of consistency in experience where things don't just vanish like this. Not to mention the benefit to our community of having transparency when it comes to scammy bullshit like this. People need to know. Massan pulls the plug on this t hread and complies with helping the Quantic guy to save what face he can, but what about the next Massan who wanders into the same experience, because you only cared about making things right for you? Scummy pseudo-professional organizations need to be called out because they severely hurt esports. The team/organization level of esports is a very important place for us to achieve professionalism. Which includes basic decency - in the form of being honest, and not stealing from people. You almost did something good for the scene, Massan.
Instead, you just did something where you and captain scumbag win, and the scene at large, and the next Massan's, lose. You allowed him to make the notion of recompense, or doing the right thing, to be conditional upon you ceasing to expose his having done something wrong in the first place. I am disappointed.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
I reposted it two pages back.
Aye, thanks Did you just happen to have it open still when you noticed the op edit? :O Too bad we can't shove it back in the op itself. A mod really should, imo. Sure, I can get being sensitive to the ops wishes, but he already put this out here and made a huge news thing about it both here and on reddit. This community would suck if people were habituated to creating threads, starting conversations and deleting the op. I'm not saying it has never happened - just that there are pretty obvious reasons why it very rarely does. I feel like it can at least be considered by forum moderation as a matter of ensuring a certain kind of consistency in experience where things don't just vanish like this. Not to mention the benefit to our community of having transparency when it comes to scammy bullshit like this. People need to know. Massan pulls the plug on this t hread and complies with helping the Quantic guy to save what face he can, but what about the next Massan who wanders into the same experience, because you only cared about making things right for you? Scummy pseudo-professional organizations need to be called out because they severely hurt esports. The team/organization level of esports is a very important place for us to achieve professionalism. Which includes basic decency - in the form of being honest, and not stealing from people. You almost did something good for the scene, Massan.
I am in full agreement with you, I was able to get the post again because I was out and browsing TL on my phone. I just so happened to be looking at the OP when I arrived home and then once I noticed it was edited I opened up my phone browser and it was still there. Pure coincidence.
On October 04 2013 08:31 Lumi wrote: The OP edit is pretty ... dumb. After you already put it out there. You could have told him you'll edit it after the problem is solved, not when he says he'll 'talk about a solution' with you. I think it's silly just off of the concept of trying to say something, to a ton of people, and to then take it back or hide it. That's just non-sense. Now you are just going to get people wondering what this was all about, while some know, and continue to talk about it. Shit like this makes me want to start saving threads in notepads just to defy this kind of move. Now it's like you just got everyones attention to come look at this story and people are talking about it, its on the front page of reddit sc and now they get here and see nothing. Except that you're seeking a professional solution. Yeah, because that is really going to give them an accurate idea of what this was all about.
Looks like you just used the sharing of your story to get some leverage on that guy and as soon as that started to go your way, you toss it out the window. Blah. So dumb.
I reposted it two pages back.
Aye, thanks Did you just happen to have it open still when you noticed the op edit? :O Too bad we can't shove it back in the op itself. A mod really should, imo. Sure, I can get being sensitive to the ops wishes, but he already put this out here and made a huge news thing about it both here and on reddit. This community would suck if people were habituated to creating threads, starting conversations and deleting the op. I'm not saying it has never happened - just that there are pretty obvious reasons why it very rarely does. I feel like it can at least be considered by forum moderation as a matter of ensuring a certain kind of consistency in experience where things don't just vanish like this. Not to mention the benefit to our community of having transparency when it comes to scammy bullshit like this. People need to know. Massan pulls the plug on this t hread and complies with helping the Quantic guy to save what face he can, but what about the next Massan who wanders into the same experience, because you only cared about making things right for you? Scummy pseudo-professional organizations need to be called out because they severely hurt esports. The team/organization level of esports is a very important place for us to achieve professionalism. Which includes basic decency - in the form of being honest, and not stealing from people. You almost did something good for the scene, Massan.
I am in full agreement with you, I was able to get the post again because I was out and browsing TL on my phone, I just so happened to be looking at the OP when I arrived home and then once I noticed it was edited I opened up my phone browser and it was still there. Pure coincidence.
couldn't he just show up 24 hours early at the airport and just kinda wander around the airport until his flight back home? I mean... it's not that bad
On October 04 2013 09:05 ROOTFayth wrote: couldn't he just show up 24 hours early at the airport and just kinda wander around the airport until his flight back home? I mean... it's not that bad
I'm serious though, he would go through the customs before his visa expired wouldn't he? unless you're not allowed to register for your flight 24 hours early
Massan is so sweet why would anyone screw him over like that? I really hope this issue gets resolved. There are also hardworking people in Quantic and it's a shame that one person can bring down a team's reputation like that, owner or not.
As for HyuN, pewpew, I'm totally gonna outbid you guys
On October 04 2013 09:05 ROOTFayth wrote: couldn't he just show up 24 hours early at the airport and just kinda wander around the airport until his flight back home? I mean... it's not that bad
I don't see how that would work. All the US officials would see would be his official travel times, not when he entered the airport. I suspect he'd just be denied entry next time he tried entering the US or applied for a visa, and no amount of video footage showing him wandering an airport aimlessly is going to change the mind of an immigration official whose screen has a red flag with the text "Overstayed on Visa Waiver Program".
On October 04 2013 09:05 ROOTFayth wrote: couldn't he just show up 24 hours early at the airport and just kinda wander around the airport until his flight back home? I mean... it's not that bad
I don't see how that would work. All the US officials would see would be his official travel times, not when he entered the airport. I suspect he'd just be denied entry next time he tried entering the US or applied for a visa, and no amount of video footage showing him wandering an airport aimlessly is going to change the mind of an immigration official whose screen has a red flag with the text "Overstayed on Visa Waiver Program".
This is probably accurate.
Exiting the country would not be a problem - self-deportation is a yawn. However, that extra day is still an overstay and would significantly complicate any attempt to later get a visa for a longer stay, or for business purposes.
Technically, I'm not sure if he would qualify for the VWP to begin with - he's in the country on business. But I am not a lawyer specializing in immigration law, nor am I in the CBP.
On October 04 2013 09:05 ROOTFayth wrote: couldn't he just show up 24 hours early at the airport and just kinda wander around the airport until his flight back home? I mean... it's not that bad
I don't see how that would work. All the US officials would see would be his official travel times, not when he entered the airport. I suspect he'd just be denied entry next time he tried entering the US or applied for a visa, and no amount of video footage showing him wandering an airport aimlessly is going to change the mind of an immigration official whose screen has a red flag with the text "Overstayed on Visa Waiver Program".
He could potentially contact the embassy, discuss the situation and then maybe see if he can "check in" to the flight early so in essence have "left" the country since he is in the limbo side of the airport whatchamacallit area, the place where you wait for the flight after doing customs.
On October 04 2013 09:05 ROOTFayth wrote: couldn't he just show up 24 hours early at the airport and just kinda wander around the airport until his flight back home? I mean... it's not that bad
I don't see how that would work. All the US officials would see would be his official travel times, not when he entered the airport. I suspect he'd just be denied entry next time he tried entering the US or applied for a visa, and no amount of video footage showing him wandering an airport aimlessly is going to change the mind of an immigration official whose screen has a red flag with the text "Overstayed on Visa Waiver Program".
He could potentially contact the embassy, discuss the situation and then maybe see if he can "check in" to the flight early so in essence have "left" the country since he is in the limbo side of the airport whatchamacallit area, the place where you wait for the flight after doing customs.
This is based on two assumptions -
1- the Airline will let him do so, and in doing so probably violate their own operating SOP and security SOP. 2-the airport is open 24/7 - the vast majority are not. ATL is, though, and I'm going to assume that's the one in question.
Further issues: 3-CBP (who is not a subordinate of the Dept of State) will process him 24 hours prior to flight. 4-TSA (who is not a subordinate of the Dept of State) will let him through the security checkpoint with a boarding pass for a different day. (Hint - No, no they will not.)
On October 04 2013 09:16 ROOTFayth wrote: couldn't he explain his point to the immigration officer? as of how the flight was booked for an extra day and he couldn't change it?
I really don't get how you can be this childish when you are running a team. The overreactions, pointing fingers and accusing a "ex"player over... Skype.
On October 04 2013 09:09 dearyuna wrote: Massan is so sweet why would anyone screw him over like that? I really hope this issue gets resolved. There are also hardworking people in Quantic and it's a shame that one person can bring down a team's reputation like that, owner or not.
As for HyuN, pewpew, I'm totally gonna outbid you guys
someone please stop her because she will outbid you all into oblivion for Hyun
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
On October 04 2013 08:33 DwD wrote: It's probably just the Quantic guy trying to do damage control and telling him he will pay him back if he deletes it. Too late though it's already out and the shitstorm is brewing.
Agreed. Unfortunately, removing/editing the post doesn't "auto-magically" mean the post never existed in the first place. Reasons:
1. It's been cached 2. People who repost the original message 3. People who keep backups of the original message and reposts them if they got removed
It would have been far better to ask of Massan to post with a followup once the matter has been sorted rather than have him remove the post entirely. The damage has already been done, trying to hide it only makes it look twice as bad.
Most damning has to be the skype log chats. I can't believe how someone at the helm can behave in such a rude, obnoxious and unprofessional manner.
you know someone did the wrong thing wh en instead of waiting and issuing a professional counter statement, they try to trade doing the right thing for getting you to help cover their tracks.
On October 04 2013 09:41 ROOTFayth wrote: so his 91 days stay is where exactly? isn't it in Georgia?
I was told by Xeno that he is Korean actually. He studies/studied in USA but he does not have american citizenship. Regardless, the VISA is not the issue here it is a personal financial matter between Massan and Simon (not even Quantic related in a legal sense)
On October 04 2013 09:18 dAPhREAk wrote: how old is simon? i am just curious why massan would even trust his "knowledge" of american immigration law.
He is 23 according to their website
people should not believe the opinions of 23 year olds on immigration issues unless exceptional circumstances exist. to be fair, based on the skype conversation, massan correctly questioned simon's purported knowledge.
To clarify, I will not be able to join Visa Waiver Program ever again, unless the delay in departure is due to emergency such as weather, or accidents.
I updated OP to have it include original statement, as well as current undergoing conversation(which doesn't mean much at the moment).
Rottie// To clarify on that aspect, it has to do more with intention of staying overtime, or abuse of the system.
As long as original flight is bought on correct dates, you can get waiver on your status from immigration office in case of emergency, or delay due to accident, etc. You also might need these evidences back when you enter country if you didn't get your overstaying status waived, to have the status resolved, although it's safer to just get visa and talk to embassy about your past situation in that case.
On October 04 2013 09:53 1MaSsan wrote: To clarify, I will not be able to join Visa Waiver Program ever again, unless the delay in departure is due to emergency such as weather, or accidents.
I updated OP to have it include original statement, as well as current undergoing conversation(which doesn't mean much at the moment).
Well at least glad that you will likely be reimbursed.
On October 04 2013 09:53 1MaSsan wrote: To clarify, I will not be able to join Visa Waiver Program ever again
wow, that is really EXTREMELY inconvenient.... immigration departments are ALWAYS sooooooo bad and their processes are always so laboursome... the very reason people came up with 90 day visa waiver is because of the overhead of processing visas for short stays.
Really, Simon doesn't need to just give you back your money, he needs to have his waiver disqualified as well.. wow, so bad, so unprofessional.
Ridiculous that he didn't just change the date immediately (not a big deal). However, from the skype log it sounds like he had issues with you from before (either real or imagined) and was looking for an excuse to fuck you over.
Wow, quantic leader looks like a joke from these skype messages. I cannot believe what i'm reading. This is incredibly unprofessional. This team might as well close imo.
On October 04 2013 09:41 ROOTFayth wrote: so his 91 days stay is where exactly? isn't it in Georgia?
I was told by Xeno that he is Korean actually. He studies/studied in USA but he does not have american citizenship. Regardless, the VISA is not the issue here it is a personal financial matter between Massan and Simon (not even Quantic related in a legal sense)
Visa is in fact an issue (although you may be right, not in the immediate incident). If he is studying in the US, odds are he is on an F1 student visa. In which case, he is not allowed to work off-campus during his first year, and thereafter - "For both F-1 and M-1 students any off-campus employment must be related to their area of study and must be authorized prior to starting any work by the Designated School Official (the person authorized to maintain the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS)) and USCIS." - Source
Again, I'm not an immigration law lawyer.
I don't know how this would impact other players - probably depends on the interpretations of whomever is looking at it. (Since most people don't see playing a video game competitively as a "job", it might skip by. Then again, it might not.)
Wow, this is pretty spectacular. I'm sorry to read about what you had to go through Massan, this all sounds shockingly unprofessional and mismanaged. I really hope things are working out following your edit.
Well Quantic has lost another supporter...... I honestly hope the organization closes after this, this is terrible publicity and I bet their sponsors will want nothing to do with it.
I think you made the right decision Massan. I really hope that others in a similar situation are brave and wise enough to make such a situation public as I completely believe quantic would have done nothing otherwise and thats really sad on quantics part
As retarded as Simon's response was, it was clearly a case of two people communicating really badly on a few occasions. As soon as issues arise in a situation like this use emails, team forums or voice-chat to communicate. Not one-word-line malformed sentences on IM.
I do feel for you though when you trust an experienced manager to take care of you and they lie to you about forms and then turn on you like this, Simon really acted like a spoilt little kid rather than a team owner. Hope this shit gets worked out
Wow I saw on youtube this interview some time ago from "Simon" he looks so arrogant on that ! Doesn't surprise me. People like him, so unprofessional should be banned from e-sports. I hope he gets fired, even if Massan gets his money back.
I thought Quantic was a well established team, its sad to see this kind of behaviour from management. I never really supported them in the first place, but now have no reason to. In any case, thanks for shining the spotlight on how you were treated its helpful to show how teams can operate, hopefully you can live peacefully on a new team!
This is such a shame that this happened at all and then that quantic still has not even made an official apology on the post.
I can not imaging having ethics low enough to put 'thanks for sending as gift' and 'good luck getting your money back'. This is beyond bad management and onto just stealing.
I assume they will give him his money back, but it does not look like they were going to without it going public. Simon needs to step down or be fired for stealing from his own players.
Massan, glad you came forward with this information. The community, quantic players, quantic sponsors, etc. need to know what is happening when someone does something like this.
I just really think it's great that even though mistakes were made, even after the accuser inform that the whole situation is being handled positively, everyone is still losing their shit over this. Personally I think Quantic is still a stand-up organization. Obviously there will be some major flaws time and again, but jeez...to hoist someone like they are the savior of the scene for going public with a problem that could have been handled in a better fashion is a little much.
On October 04 2013 11:38 PiGStarcraft wrote: As retarded as Simon's response was, it was clearly a case of two people communicating really badly on a few occasions. As soon as issues arise in a situation like this use emails, team forums or voice-chat to communicate. Not one-word-line malformed sentences on IM.
I do feel for you though when you trust an experienced manager to take care of you and they lie to you about forms and then turn on you like this, Simon really acted like a spoilt little kid rather than a team owner. Hope this shit gets worked out
That's because he probably is a spoiled little kid at heart. According to the reddit thread he's only in the position he's in because of his dad's money.
Aww, Massan, I just read the whole thing and you were screwed over pretty hard I'm really sorry about that. You're an awesome guy and shouldn't be treated so badly. I sincerely hope you get your money back somehow and I wish you the best in finding a GOOD team that won't treat their people like this situation has shown us.
On October 04 2013 06:29 Ctone23 wrote: A mans word is all he has at times.... you told them you wouldn't say anything yet you did.
Hey it's your life, but trust is uncommon these days so I don't know why you chose to break that.
Good luck in everything you do.
So if someone was going to frame you and take your money you wouldn't do anything because of "trust" ,or because your a "man? I think the trust part was already destroyed before this post was made. Think before you post , I see you writing stupid stuff in twitch chat as well, tone it down.
This is so bad for esports. Teams can't even get plane tickets to transport their players correctly? Can't even resolve it appropriately and it spills out on gaming forums because it is the player's only outlet?
not to sound rude or anything, but with overwhelming support here already, why would you let anyone buy anything for you. It's your money you should be handing it. Money, or legal documents should never ever leave your hands other than for their intended use.
Pretty ridiculous, looks like this Simon guy is a fucker and he should be kicked off Quantic. For once, I think the community should really be pitch-forking. Unlike orb/destiny/idra where nothing really bad actually happened, this fuck actively scammed one of his (ex)players and seemed happy about it.
That said, massan (and any pro-gamer) should really be signing contracts on paper. Then again, esports being what it is, maybe it's hard to get paper contracts.
What basically happened (can't go into details as I can't remember them) is that Simon from Quantic was supposed to buy a plane ticket for Massan. Massan paid 1400$ for that ticket via a paypal gift and Simon fucked up the dates (there was a date limit because of Visa). So Massan needs a refund or at least change a ticket. Simon completely refuses to do so and after having stolen 1400$ from Massan, tells him how Massan "tried to scam him and his family".
On October 04 2013 06:29 Ctone23 wrote: A mans word is all he has at times.... you told them you wouldn't say anything yet you did.
Hey it's your life, but trust is uncommon these days so I don't know why you chose to break that.
Good luck in everything you do.
''Yeah, this guy is telling all sorts of crap about me and how I'm a cheat and steal other people money, but I'm a nice guy, i gave my word i would never reveal the information that says otherwise, so he can keep telling all sorts of bullshit about me, indefinitely''.
So I take it this simon guy told the OP something along the lines of "stop it with the tread, get rid of the original post and evidence and you can have your money back?" I mean whatever works I guess.
I really think that people should be more aware of how some people are trying to scam players. That is what's truly detrimental, I would have hoped that the community would be more outraged at this than other silly matters such as Idra's posts being purposely misinterpreted. It's kind of ... silly that the community seems to more readily jump down a player's throat then someone who is actively scamming people.
On October 04 2013 14:22 hunts wrote: So I take it this simon guy told the OP something along the lines of "stop it with the tread, get rid of the original post and evidence and you can have your money back?" I mean whatever works I guess.
Pretty much what happens in 90% of all drama/witchhunts in eSports, the other 10% of the time the offending party still doesnt give a fuck and racks off with all the money regardless.
On October 04 2013 14:21 Incognoto wrote: Oh yeah the OP did get edited.
What basically happened (can't go into details as I can't remember them) is that Simon from Quantic was supposed to buy a plane ticket for Massan. Massan paid 1400$ for that ticket via a paypal gift and Simon fucked up the dates (there was a date limit because of Visa). So Massan needs a refund or at least change a ticket. Simon completely refuses to do so and after having stolen 1400$ from Massan, tells him how Massan "tried to scam him and his family".
uh, wow. i am speechless. Simon not making any bit of sense here... He acted unprofessionally, ugh I'm glad Massan brought this to light and found some sense of closure.
thanks for sharing those logs, ugh i am still left with a bad taste in my mouth > . >
On October 04 2013 14:09 Incognoto wrote: Pretty ridiculous, looks like this Simon guy is a fucker and he should be kicked off Quantic. For once, I think the community should really be pitch-forking. Unlike orb/destiny/idra where nothing really bad actually happened, this fuck actively scammed one of his (ex)players and seemed happy about it.
That said, massan (and any pro-gamer) should really be signing contracts on paper. Then again, esports being what it is, maybe it's hard to get paper contracts.
Lack of professionalism. Quantic, fuck you
EXCUSE ME? Don't you remember how disrespectful their actions were to the eSportS community? NOt only that, the actions of destiny & orb were disrespectful to the grander communities outside of eSports! Let alone all the stuff with idra and the eSports community and how the eSports community reacted against him. I think the reaction from the eSports community shows how serious the eSports scene was affected by their "not bad behavior". eSports showed that it was capable of taking action in order to benefit the greater eSports community as a whole. Destiny's plethora of eSports drama affected the world beyond eSports too. Remember the problem with the pornstar and the kid smoking weed? Even though that doesn't affect eSports as a community, there are other communities who will look at the eSports community and think that the eSports community is a bunch of little kids. I think that their behavior affects the eSports community the most because it detracts from the outside, unlike this where the eSports community is being affected by people who are already in eSports. The problem with signing contracts is that people dont have the necessary legal-advice unless they are big teams (like EG) who can have lawyers draw out the contracts for the team/players.
On October 04 2013 14:09 Incognoto wrote: Pretty ridiculous, looks like this Simon guy is a fucker and he should be kicked off Quantic. For once, I think the community should really be pitch-forking. Unlike orb/destiny/idra where nothing really bad actually happened, this fuck actively scammed one of his (ex)players and seemed happy about it.
That said, massan (and any pro-gamer) should really be signing contracts on paper. Then again, esports being what it is, maybe it's hard to get paper contracts.
Lack of professionalism. Quantic, fuck you
EXCUSE ME? Don't you remember how disrespectful their actions were to the eSportS community? NOt only that, the actions of destiny & orb were disrespectful to the grander communities outside of eSports! Let alone all the stuff with idra and the eSports community and how the eSports community reacted against him. I think the reaction from the eSports community shows how serious the eSports scene was affected by their "not bad behavior". eSports showed that it was capable of taking action in order to benefit the greater eSports community as a whole. Destiny's plethora of eSports drama affected the world beyond eSports too. Remember the problem with the pornstar and the kid smoking weed? Even though that doesn't affect eSports as a community, there are other communities who will look at the eSports community and think that the eSports community is a bunch of little kids. I think that their behavior affects the eSports community the most because it detracts from the outside, unlike this where the eSports community is being affected by people who are already in eSports. The problem with signing contracts is that people dont have the necessary legal-advice unless they are big teams (like EG) who can have lawyers draw out the contracts for the team/players.
Some random rudeness has nothing to do with scamming players. Don't even go there.
Stealing money is ridiculously unacceptable, if you think taking 1400$ from a player and then telling them to go fuck themselves is comparable to being very rude, you've lost all credibility. You can also bet your ass that Quantic wouldn't have moved to try to find a solution asap if Massan hadn't made this thread. Massan NOT making this thread could have resulted in him losing 1400$ (we're not even sure he's actually going to get that money back). What does that tell you about esports?
There's a world of difference between "esports sucks because people are rude to each other" and "esports sucks because the way money is handled is shady as fuck". This is HUGELY detrimental to Quantic and if I were one of Quantic's sponsors I would seriously ask myself whether or not to withdraw my sponsorship. Even more so, imagine I'm running a company and I'm looking into sponsoring a team for more exposure. I see this. I see that sums of money are being managed by some 16 year old who is uses his dad's credit card to pay for things. Am I really going to consider sponsoring an NA team?
Maybe it's just me but if I ask a friend to help me book a flight and he screwed it up. I wouldn't go on to ask him to pay for the mistake (not in full).
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
On October 04 2013 15:06 ROOTFayth wrote: did everybody misread this or is it me?
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
Not stealing, but it's indeed that by paying 2 tickets of $2600, his dad's credit card racked up some good miles. Overall, they have some benefits, but not much.
The problem is they try to screw OP over by telling him to fuk himself.
On October 04 2013 15:06 ROOTFayth wrote: did everybody misread this or is it me?
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
The 1400 was for a flight to Korea. The flight to Atlanta was different.
On October 04 2013 14:09 Incognoto wrote: Pretty ridiculous, looks like this Simon guy is a fucker and he should be kicked off Quantic. For once, I think the community should really be pitch-forking. Unlike orb/destiny/idra where nothing really bad actually happened, this fuck actively scammed one of his (ex)players and seemed happy about it.
That said, massan (and any pro-gamer) should really be signing contracts on paper. Then again, esports being what it is, maybe it's hard to get paper contracts.
Lack of professionalism. Quantic, fuck you
EXCUSE ME? Don't you remember how disrespectful their actions were to the eSportS community? NOt only that, the actions of destiny & orb were disrespectful to the grander communities outside of eSports! Let alone all the stuff with idra and the eSports community and how the eSports community reacted against him. I think the reaction from the eSports community shows how serious the eSports scene was affected by their "not bad behavior". eSports showed that it was capable of taking action in order to benefit the greater eSports community as a whole. Destiny's plethora of eSports drama affected the world beyond eSports too. Remember the problem with the pornstar and the kid smoking weed? Even though that doesn't affect eSports as a community, there are other communities who will look at the eSports community and think that the eSports community is a bunch of little kids. I think that their behavior affects the eSports community the most because it detracts from the outside, unlike this where the eSports community is being affected by people who are already in eSports. The problem with signing contracts is that people dont have the necessary legal-advice unless they are big teams (like EG) who can have lawyers draw out the contracts for the team/players.
yea, at the same time destiny stream for charity and actually helped gameheart 2.0 to get the funding it needed. His anti ddos, streaming guide are still being used for pros. hell, he was the one that made daskeyboard invested in esport for a while, just because his stream was popular and a lot of people learnt about mechanical keyboard for the first time. I can list way more people with bigger problems in other industries. esport is filled with kids and young adults. Go to any league of legends tournaments which is making up a huge part of esport community and tell me we aren't a community with a lot of kids. Lots of sc2 teams are run by young adults filled with teams of kids to teenagers to young adults.
we are talking about pros losing money here because of poor quality staff and gets repeatedly lied on and get kicked from the team. How is destiny etcetc isses be even on the same level.
On October 04 2013 15:06 ROOTFayth wrote: did everybody misread this or is it me?
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
The 1400 was for a flight to Korea. The flight to Atlanta was different.
I have worked as an advertising & media professional for 10 years and spent many of those years promoting eSports to my clients which include many of the largest most respected companies in the world. The actions of Simon significantly hurt the reputation not just of the Quantic team but all of eSports. Thankfully I do not represent any of Quantics sponsors, but if I did I would likely have to pull all funding of the team.
Integrity is a huge consideration for any organization when they choose to sponsor an event or an organization because they are aligning their brand name and integrity with the sponsored organization.
Simon should relinquish his ownership role and resign from the team if they want to continue being professionally sponsored. If he is unwilling to do this for the benefit of his team then I would not blame the sponsors for entirely withdrawing from all contracts. I don't wish any harm to the other fantastic and hard working players on the team but the only person who can make that right is Simon.
For the good of your team Simon, Resign and never show your face within eSports again.
On October 04 2013 15:41 Enders116 wrote: Does anyone have a screen cap? I honestly did not see the skype conversation or anything else of that nature.
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
Unfortunately it's you. Simon did not pay for Massan's ticket. Simon took Masson's $1,400 and bought a ticket that Massan could not use due to his Visa restrictions. When Massan nicely asked Simon to change the ticket, Simon refused, kicked Massan off the team, and kept his money causing Massan to have to buy a 2nd ticked.
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
Unfortunately it's you. Simon did not pay for Massan's ticket. Simon took Masson's $1,400 and bought a ticket that Massan could not use due to his Visa restrictions. When Massan nicely asked Simon to change the ticket, Simon refused, kicked Massan off the team, and kept his money causing Massan to have to buy a 2nd ticked.
^Yeah, that's the gist of it. Read the skype conversation, you'll see just how much of a fucker Simon is. Friends don't do that by the way; you can also be sure as fuck that if I were spending 1400$ on something I would be sure as fuck that I'm spending the money properly. EVEN MORE SO if the money isn't mine. And if I DO fuck up, then it's time to refund.
I mean, legally speaking I'm pretty sure that Simon is entitled to keep that money, since it was a paypal "gift" and nothing was signed on paper. Thing is, that's pretty much the definition of scamming people.
I'm not the kind of whiny stupid person that would write to sponsors or something, but if Quantic wants to save face they need to do something to get rid of Simon. If Simon doesn't get anything for this shit after what orb/destiny/idra went through, then I say fuck esports. Players (those who keep everything going) are the first one to get fucked over.
Massan didn't get scammed at all did he? I mean he said he flew over to atlanta... that means the money he sent through paypal was used to buy his flight ticket, the only mistake was his return flight was 1 day too late wasn't it? Why is everybody talking about "stealing $1400" lol
Unfortunately it's you. Simon did not pay for Massan's ticket. Simon took Masson's $1,400 and bought a ticket that Massan could not use due to his Visa restrictions. When Massan nicely asked Simon to change the ticket, Simon refused, kicked Massan off the team, and kept his money causing Massan to have to buy a 2nd ticked.
i think the confusion is the fact that simon didnt get any money. he bought a $1400 nonrefundable ticket, which he gave to massan. besides miles (apparently), simon got nothing out of it. thats not a scam.
Simon may have be some kind of jerk, but I have to think there's more to the story than just random hostility towards Massan.
I can imagine Simon felt very embarrassed about having to rely on his dad for financial support to run Quantic (perhaps an emergency credit card he dipped into and was not looking forward to explaining to his dad why). I'm guessing that's where he felt threatened.
@Innovation. Was he able to get a refund for the ticket? If not, he'd be paying Massan back out of pocket. The original money was lost.
As to the rest of it, if it's as true as Massan's story describes, Simon seriously screwed up his visa, which is probably the worst overall loss. Paying $1200 for another ticket also sucked, but the visa issues are much farther reaching (potentially, at least).
i think the confusion is the fact that simon didnt get any money. he bought a $1400 nonrefundable ticket, which he gave to massan. besides miles (apparently), simon got nothing out of it. thats not a scam.
not a scam, but exceptionally disgusting behavior on Simon's part. Simon could have changed the date on the ticket. Masson even told Simon he'd pay for the change fee. Yes you can always pay a change fee on a non-refundable ticket (I know because I once worked as a ticketing agent). Because Simon acted like a child and refused to change the ticket he intentionally caused the loss of Massan's $1,400.
All he had to do was log on and change the flight date or call a ticketing agent and change the date. It could have been done in less than 10 minutes. There is no excuse for his behavior, or his intentional waste of Massan's money.
@Innovation. Was he able to get a refund for the ticket? If not, he'd be paying Massan back out of pocket. The original money was lost.
A non-refundable ticket is still changeable. Meaning that Simon did not need to get a refund. All he needed to do was to change the flight date and pay the change fee, which Massan clearly stated he was willing to pay.
Edit/Note: BTW I hate getting involved in these kinds of threads and usually don't comment (see my low post count) but this was so exceptional that I had to set the record straight. I also find it personally offensive due to the amount of work I have personally invested in eSports via my advertising career. It makes a mockery of all the hard work that 1,000's of people have put in and hurts their chances of earning a living doing what they love.
Why would someone act like that... ever. I mean ya we all get emotional or upset etc but to tell a friend to fuck off screw it I don't care if u get stuck etc... wtf? Massaan was being nice and saying "dude lets just figure this out" and he still is like "no screw you" etc... pretty sad.
On October 04 2013 16:45 ChosenSC2 wrote: Why would someone act like that... ever. I mean ya we all get emotional or upset etc but to tell a friend to fuck off screw it I don't care if u get stuck etc... wtf? Massaan was being nice and saying "dude lets just figure this out" and he still is like "no screw you" etc... pretty sad.
Except in every MoW thread there was 120+ pages of hate and close this MoW-joke-scam asap. But now we have a head of big american team behave like this and somehow the discussion is vastly different. Strange.
On October 04 2013 06:18 1MaSsan wrote: Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred.
I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally.
Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place.
The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again
On October 04 2013 06:18 1MaSsan wrote: Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred.
I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally.
Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place.
The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again
Yeah that does indeed sound like "massan if you shut up you can get your money back". Which is something they might say considering that massan has nothing legal to back up the fact that he's in possession of that money. This infers that the way they're handling the situation remains pretty shady.
The most professional thing they could do in this situation is fire Simon and release a statement about how his poor conduct with actual money (something much more serious than what most witch hunts have aimed for in the past) lead to them firing him. If they don't, Quantic just loses face.
On October 04 2013 06:18 1MaSsan wrote: Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred.
I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally.
Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place.
The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again
What do you mean higher-ups? Doesn't get much higher up than the owner of the team, as far as I know. How the hell can anyone interpret this incident as a miscommunication? Unless Simon can't read/write, this is a flat out attempted scam, done poorly.
On October 04 2013 06:18 1MaSsan wrote: Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred.
I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally.
Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place.
The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again
What do you mean higher-ups? Doesn't get much higher up than the owner of the team, as far as I know. How the hell can anyone interpret this incident as a miscommunication? Unless Simon can't read/write, this is a flat out attempted scam, done poorly.
I also love this ridiculous joint statement.
I never said that the incidence was not a miscommunication, but what arised out of it was "more than a simple miscommunication" and referring to it as a miscommunication or misunderstanding is, at least in my opinion, talking it small.
If anyone knows of PwnStar4Hire on youtube, he was told by someone on Quantic's management that "I hope you become homeless" after refusing to continue partnering with Quanitc. This unprofessionalism really doesn't surprise me. I lost respect for Quantic after hearing about Pwn.
On October 04 2013 06:18 1MaSsan wrote: Professionalism is important to Quantic and we realize the handling of this matter was less than professional. We want to re-affirm our commitment to the community that we will make every effort possible to act professionally in the future. We express our sincerest apologies for what has unfortunately occurred.
I don't want organizations to suppress whatever shit is going on internally, to look professionally on the outside. I want organizations to act professionally on the inside, so whatever seeps to the outside looks professionally.
Forcing Masan and Simon to give out statements like this despite everything that went on between them is just silly. To me, it looks like the organization is so vain in saving face, that they desperately try to deny that something more than a simple "miscommunication" happened in the first place.
The right approach would've been to release a statement that: a) admits that there was a serious conflict between two memebers of the organization, where each party blamed the other of defalcating money b) announces that the higher ups are looking into the matter to see how to resolve it and how to prevent something like this from happening again
Sorry - misread this as "each party blamed the other of defecating money." lol'd.
So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
I don't think he means stealing as in literally pocketing the money.
At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another.
Personally, I think it pretty much counts as stealing even if he didn't get to cancel the ticket. It's still $1400 less for MasSan and a tangible benefit for Simon in miles.
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
This is pretty much the conclusion I came to.
What I really disliked most is how Simon tried to draw Massan into the whole "I let you live at my place and that's how you show your gratitude?" straw man to try and cover up the mistakes he made. That's just... not just incompetent managing, that's just blatantly being an asshole. Especially if you're not aware of all the circumstances, which apparently neither side was. His personal ties with Massan have absolutely nothing to do with their business relationship. Well, shouldn't have, I guess.
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
I don't think he means stealing as in literally pocketing the money.
At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another.
Personally, I think it pretty much counts as stealing even if he didn't get to cancel the ticket. It's still $1400 less for MasSan and a tangible benefit for Simon in miles.
I think that is a pretty strange way of looking at it. The mileage is just a minor residue effect from failing as a manager, there's no way this was intended as a setup to gain mileage.
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
Well, it's kind of like a thief stealing a car for a get away, in the process of doing that he wrecks the car during the police chase or when he's safe he dumps it into a pond to cover his tracks. He doesn't keep the car does he? However, the owner of the car had his car stolen and the value of that car is lost to the car owner. The thief still stole the car, even if he didn't gain monetary value out if it.
You could probably fill this analogy full of holes (escape could be considered a value or something) but this is pretty much what happened here. The manager took the player's money, fucked up with that money and instead of trying to fix his own fuck up, he just tells the player to go away. Massan would have lost 1400$ without anything in return. Sure, Simon wouldn't have gained anything from it, but that doesn't mean it still isn't theft. In this case Simon's 1400$ mistake is covered by Massan's money..
I guess you could play on semantics, point being Simon was ready to burn 1400$ of cash that was't his without even trying to fix the problem.
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
I don't think he means stealing as in literally pocketing the money.
At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another.
Personally, I think it pretty much counts as stealing even if he didn't get to cancel the ticket. It's still $1400 less for MasSan and a tangible benefit for Simon in miles.
I think that is a pretty strange way of looking at it. The mileage is just a minor residue effect from failing as a manager, there's no way this was intended as a setup to gain mileage.
massan never claimed this was intended as a setup? he just got stolen 1400, what is so difficult to understand about it?
I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place.
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place.
So imagine I decide to sell someone a product which costs 200€. I take their money and I tell them I'll send them that product. Then I realize that I made a mistake, I spilled something on the product which renders it unusable (in the process, I lost 200€). Since nothing has been signed, I'm entitled to just keep the money without sending them back either their money or a replacement product.
^How is that not theft?
Someone will have to explain the subtleties of the semantics around theft because I'm clearly not getting.
In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place.
Your 'never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity' attitude is ruining a perfectly entertaining pitchforking.
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
Good point actually.
If Simon had given the ticket to Massan (even if he couldn't use it) then it wouldn't count as theft. It would indeed just be incompetence.
So whether or not this is a theft of scam solely depends on whether not Simon at least gave Massan his useless ticket.
I'm wondering if he didn't, why else couldn't Massan try to fix his shitty ticket on his own?
Edit: Yeah, it's pretty much theft when Simon says "good luck getting a refund". This pretty much implies that Massan isn't in possession of his useless plane ticket. Simon has it and he's holding on to it.
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place.
I don't know whether "incompetence" is the right word. To me "incompetence" implies that it is not done deliberately, but out of ignorance. However, according to Masan, Simon had the opportunity to change the ticket, was asked to and yet refused to do so. In my opinion, that is not incompetence, but maliciousness.
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place.
I don't know whether "incompetence" is the right word. To me "incompetence" implies that it is not done deliberately, but out of ignorance. However, according to Masan, Simon had the opportunity to change the ticket, was asked to and yet refused to do so. In my opinion, that is not incompetence, but maliciousness.
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
Good point actually.
If Simon had given the ticket to Massan (even if he couldn't use it) then it wouldn't count as theft. It would indeed just be incompetence.
So whether or not this is a theft of scam solely depends on whether not Simon at least gave Massan his useless ticket.
I'm wondering if he didn't, why else couldn't Massan try to fix his shitty ticket on his own?
Edit: Yeah, it's pretty much theft when Simon says "good luck getting a refund". This pretty much implies that Massan isn't in possession of his useless plane ticket. Simon has it and he's holding on to it.
Not sure. I think from a legal standpoint, Massan is probably in good right to get the $1400 back. Not a lawyer though.
On October 04 2013 18:32 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I'm not sure you understand what stealing means. Money is lost due to incompetence all the time. It can make people incompetent assholes that shouldn't be running professional organizations, but it does not make them thieves. The semantics involved with calling someone a thief or not is actually quite a big deal, and it shouldn't be misused all over the place.
I don't know whether "incompetence" is the right word. To me "incompetence" implies that it is not done deliberately, but out of ignorance. However, according to Masan, Simon had the opportunity to change the ticket, was asked to and yet refused to do so. In my opinion, that is not incompetence, but maliciousness.
I agree, that is the asshole part of it
Ah, sorry. Misread your post. Must have read over the asshole part.
For quantic to continue to be relevant in the scene, they really have to fire Simon, even if he was a money provider. I think I'm not the only one who will disrespect the whole organisation if they continue to have him as the owner of the team.
makes it very difficult to cheer for a team that is owned by such an imbecile.
i used to cheer for quantic but now it will be difficult as i will feel more pity than pride for the players when i see their tag appear. very disheartening.
edit: hope I hope HyuN is alright in the team. he seems like such a nice guy and well humoured. the language barrier makes him even more susceptible to mistreatment so i think we should keep an eye out for him.
On October 04 2013 23:09 GizmoPT wrote: and everyone lived happy ever after
Well I now have a pretty low opinion of Simon no matter what happens between him and Massan now. He acted and spoke with such a low amount of professionalism and maturity it was astounding.
On October 04 2013 22:30 Necro)Phagist( wrote: That joint statement is the most laughable PR cover shit I've seen in a long time... Please HyuN Run far away from this organization T.T
Seriously. It's like they completely ignore how uncooperative Simon was. If he REALLY cared and that guy was actually his friend, when Massan brought the issue up he would of completely focused on it for ~30 minutes and it would of easily been resolved. Now the excuse is...things got heated? That's ridiculous.
On October 04 2013 22:24 SkullZ9 wrote: For quantic to continue to be relevant in the scene, they really have to fire Simon, even if he was a money provider. I think I'm not the only one who will disrespect the whole organisation if they continue to have him as the owner of the team.
lol fire the owner??? unless someone has the dough to buy the team its not gonna happen.
I find it sad that they didnt try to apologize. I find it sad that a guy who should be a ''pro'' is such a dick. Some form of mea culpa is needed here.
If you want to be the Jerry Jones of esports, you gotta act like Jerry Jones. Not like a classless dick.
On October 04 2013 22:24 SkullZ9 wrote: For quantic to continue to be relevant in the scene, they really have to fire Simon, even if he was a money provider. I think I'm not the only one who will disrespect the whole organisation if they continue to have him as the owner of the team.
lol fire the owner??? unless someone has the dough to buy the team its not gonna happen.
I find it sad that they didnt try to apologize. I find it sad that a guy who should be a ''pro'' is such a dick. Some form of mea culpa is needed here.
If you want to be the Jerry Jones of esports, you gotta act like Jerry Jones. Not like a classless dick.
gtfo gros mange marde.
edit : what joint statement?
The new OP of this thread, apparently. It isn't formatted or stated very clearly, but after coming up empty looking elsewhere, I figured that must be it.
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
The skype log is outrageous. How can the person in charge of Quantic be so unprofessional He's like the opposite of what we could expect from a good boss. He really should change his attitude if he wants Quantic to keep a clean image.
esports seems to grow and to attract some shady people that exclusively focus on profit, and not on the players, the game or the fanbase.I feel so sorry for all the pro players that have to endure this situation.
Thank god some team are here to show a better exemple but damn, we have seen many drama lately. If I was a Quantic's sponsor, I would stop sponsoring the team and try to get some personal sponsorhsips with the players themselves. I don't like seeing people like Simon, making money on the back of Hyun and others.
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
its nontransferrable and nonrefundable. did you even bother to read the original op?
team owners act like complete and total assholes in many sports...even going to jail for some of the stuff they do. people with power and money get to act like assholes... and get away with it. welcome to the real world guys.
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
its nontransferrable and nonrefundable. did you even bother to read the original op?
But the point is there is a way to change the plane ticket so that MaSsan could use it. However, Simon refused to do it which unnecessarily wastes MaSsan's money.
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
its nontransferrable and nonrefundable. did you even bother to read the original op?
But the point is there is a way to change the plane ticket so that MaSsan could use it. However, Simon refused to do it which unnecessarily wastes MaSsan's money.
and nazgul (and other people's) point is that that is not stealing.
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
On October 04 2013 18:47 Grollicus wrote: In the end Simon has a $1400 plain ticket which he could give to anyone (because he has bought it, even though it was without his own money). How is that not stealing, Nazgul? Just because he propably can't use it doesn't mean he didn't steal it?
its nontransferrable and nonrefundable. did you even bother to read the original op?
But the point is there is a way to change the plane ticket so that MaSsan could use it. However, Simon refused to do it which unnecessarily wastes MaSsan's money.
and nazgul (and other people's) point is that that is not stealing.
this is why you buy a TL shirt, and not a quantic jersey.
sidenote - that that, ugh man. "and nazgul (and other people's) point is that (it*, or what simon did*) is not stealing. Not trying to be a dick its just *that that* is just a peeve of mine. Have a wonderful day.
Yeah that's a very nice professional sounding statement Simon put out. But really so much immaturity was displayed, I wish they would fire and replace him with someone else. I don't understand why people like this have to be given second chances, when there are probably dozens of very capable managers who would love to have a job at Quantic. Its just a bit depressing that all you have to do is put out a professional sounding statement, and all of what you did is forgotten or forgiven; in most other jobs your employment would be terminated for behaving like this. When you read the chat logs it sounds far from a miscommunication, it sounds like Simon is very confused and easily provoked into insulting others based on hearsay, to the point where people get into serious financial problems. I wish they would fire him, but that probably won't happen.
On October 05 2013 03:41 radscorpion9 wrote: Yeah that's a very nice professional sounding statement Simon put out. But really so much immaturity was displayed, I wish they would fire and replace him with someone else. I don't understand why people like this have to be given second chances, when there are probably dozens of very capable managers who would love to have a job at Quantic. Its just a bit depressing that all you have to do is put out a professional sounding statement, and all of what you did is forgotten or forgiven; in most other jobs your employment would be terminated for behaving like this. When you read the chat logs it sounds far from a miscommunication, it sounds like Simon is very confused and easily provoked into insulting others based on hearsay, to the point where people get into serious financial problems. I wish they would fire him, but that probably won't happen.
I think Simon is the owner of Quantic, not just a manager, so it's not like there's anyone higher up to fire him. Either way, take solace in the fact that anyone with a brain can see that his "professional" statement is just an attempt at damage control rather than a sincere apology. You can really see what someone's like by observing how they treat people (especially those that they have power over) outside the public eye.
Just read through all those skype logs, that is just insane. Quantic will not survive with a man like that leading them, what a joke. Simon should be ashamed of himself, really, just atrocious behavior. If he really doesn't feel shame or guilt regarding the way he acted I doubt Quantic will be alive at this time next year. Nothing will kill a company faster than a incompetent owner, that is a fact.
On October 05 2013 03:54 iMOOrtal wrote: Just read through all those skype logs, that is just insane. Quantic will not survive with a man like that leading them, what a joke. Simon should be ashamed of himself, really, just atrocious behavior. If he really doesn't feel shame or guilt regarding the way he acted I doubt Quantic will be alive at this time next year. Nothing will kill a company faster than a incompetent owner, that is a fact.
They can just "die" and come back again, seems to work.
On October 05 2013 03:41 radscorpion9 wrote: Yeah that's a very nice professional sounding statement Simon put out. But really so much immaturity was displayed, I wish they would fire and replace him with someone else. I don't understand why people like this have to be given second chances, when there are probably dozens of very capable managers who would love to have a job at Quantic. Its just a bit depressing that all you have to do is put out a professional sounding statement, and all of what you did is forgotten or forgiven; in most other jobs your employment would be terminated for behaving like this. When you read the chat logs it sounds far from a miscommunication, it sounds like Simon is very confused and easily provoked into insulting others based on hearsay, to the point where people get into serious financial problems. I wish they would fire him, but that probably won't happen.
I think Simon is the owner of Quantic, not just a manager, so it's not like there's anyone higher up to fire him. Either way, take solace in the fact that anyone with a brain can see that his "professional" statement is just an attempt at damage control rather than a sincere apology. You can really see what someone's like by observing how they treat people (especially those that they have power over) outside the public eye.
Didn't they pay the flight with Simons fathers credit card, so technically couldn't his father fire Simon as in not to pay any of his son's future expenses and hire his other son or something?
Based on the conversation log I imagine the conversation of Simon getting fired by his father would go something like this:
Father: Hey Simon, I read on the net what you did to that kid, that's it I'm cutting you off, no more money. Father:Jerry is taking over the operation. Simon: For several years I've been a good son and this is what I get back? Simon: Fucking backstabber! Father: Simon, you managed this horribly, there is no excuse. Simon: How many years have I been a good son and done as I've been told, U backstabber...
How can someone like Simon own a team? I don't understand that. You'd think that these managers and owners would also be SMART and cool headed enough to know not to trash talk someone over skype as well. How many times have disgruntled players released damning skype logs?
maybe simon isn't stupid though, all he did was completely lose control of his emotions, that doesn't make one stupid... if anything it may make him kind of immature
if they're willing to fix things then all the better for them
On October 05 2013 04:05 lannisport wrote: How can someone like Simon own a team? I don't understand that. You'd think that these managers and owners would also be SMART and cool headed enough to know not to trash talk someone over skype as well. How many times have disgruntled players released damning skype logs?
Because this industry is so small that anyone willing to take the risk can own a "premier" team? All you need is some starting money and a couple of names to talk to and you have a team. After a couple of months you realize that shit isn't as easy as you thought and crap like this happens. Since you had disposable money it doesn't hurt "that" much but you can put "ceo of crap gaming team #195" on your resume, awesome.
The apologies are just laughable. Took around 14 hours to say "I am not perfect, and when friends get upset with one another, things can become emotional. I’m sorry that I allowed that to happen" Ironically MaSsan's apology is longer.... Either way, I'm happy he got his money back, but I don't think I'll be supporting Quantic any time soon.
Thanks to those who kept a copy of the original post. Holy crap; what a shitfest that log was.
Really sours my entire outlook on Quantic, and I'm not sure there's really anything they can do to undo that, short of giving 1MaSsan all the money they owe him, and then like $2-$3k on top for his troubles. Man...
Her harbours no ill will towards Massan? What sort of statement is that? How could you harbour ill will to someone who did absolutely nothing wrong and who you treated as such a douche. I like a lot of the quantic players but I could not possibly support knowing this sort of asshole is behind the scenes in charge. A super immature, unprofessional dbag. No surprise in this industry really.
On October 05 2013 04:18 ROOTFayth wrote: maybe simon isn't stupid though, all he did was completely lose control of his emotions, that doesn't make one stupid... if anything it may make him kind of immature
if they're willing to fix things then all the better for them
They are only willing to ''fix'' things because the info went public and are now trying to salvage what's left of their image.
Absolutely absurd behaviour by Simon. The only thing more appalling than the actual events is the farce that Simon wrote as a public statement about the events. This guy is emotionally and intellectually a five year old, and I'm not sure a business that runs on someone's "dad's credit card" can ever be taken seriously.
On October 05 2013 04:18 ROOTFayth wrote: maybe simon isn't stupid though, all he did was completely lose control of his emotions, that doesn't make one stupid... if anything it may make him kind of immature
if they're willing to fix things then all the better for them
It probably doesn't make him stupid, but it definitely makes him incompetent.
Just reading about this now and I will never support or root for Quantic anymore if this incompetent narcisstic asshole doesn't get fired. Which probably will not happen after all this time passed.
Also this statement is a total joke. Simon has shown his true face in the skype log. And it is not pretty.
On October 05 2013 05:31 soiii wrote: Just reading about this now and I will never support or root for Quantic anymore if this incompetent narcisstic asshole doesn't get fired. Which probably will not happen after all this time passed.
Also this statement is a total joke. Simon has shown his true face in the skype log. And it is not pretty.
If you are talking about being fired, I assume you are not aware that he is the owner of the team?
On October 05 2013 05:31 soiii wrote: Just reading about this now and I will never support or root for Quantic anymore if this incompetent narcisstic asshole doesn't get fired. Which probably will not happen after all this time passed.
Also this statement is a total joke. Simon has shown his true face in the skype log. And it is not pretty.
If you are talking about being fired, I assume you are not aware that he is the owner of the team?
Organisations can figure out ways to abandon their owners. It might not being "fired" in the canonical sense but close enough.
On October 05 2013 05:31 soiii wrote: Just reading about this now and I will never support or root for Quantic anymore if this incompetent narcisstic asshole doesn't get fired. Which probably will not happen after all this time passed.
Also this statement is a total joke. Simon has shown his true face in the skype log. And it is not pretty.
If you are talking about being fired, I assume you are not aware that he is the owner of the team?
Organisations can figure out ways to abandon their owners. It might not being "fired" in the canonical sense but close enough.
A hostile, very over dramatic corporate take-over perhaps?
On October 05 2013 04:18 ROOTFayth wrote: maybe simon isn't stupid though, all he did was completely lose control of his emotions, that doesn't make one stupid... if anything it may make him kind of immature
if they're willing to fix things then all the better for them
Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
i don't see the point of rejecting the statement they put out? it sounds like they're going to resolve the situation and just want to do it privately from here on. i understand people saying they won't support quantic now, as it is a pretty big mistake, but the people posting that he's a liar/asshole/manipulator/etc. because the statement is different from the skype log just come off like they WANT drama. accepting apologies and giving people room to regain trust is what makes you a bigger person, not ruthlessly beating someone down when they try to take responsibility for a mistake
don't get me wrong, he comes off horribly in the log. i understand people not wanting him to be running a team. but some of you are making it pretty intensely personal. people do actually get emotional and make mistakes, and i think we all know that the gaming industry is on a low tier of professionalism in general, since these people literally are kids for the most part
The manner in which this was handled is extremely unprofessional and builds distrust from the community but people have to realize from small gaming organizations up to large corporations need to deal with PR. It's obvious behind the scenes people are cursing, swearing, lying, trying to find loopholes, and have different feelings about everything, but they have to seem professional and kind-hearted on the outside. It's how the world works.
On October 05 2013 05:54 seoul_kiM wrote: The manner in which this was handled is extremely unprofessional and builds distrust from the community but people have to realize from small gaming organizations up to large corporations need to deal with PR. It's obvious behind the scenes people are cursing, swearing, lying, trying to find loopholes, and have different feelings about everything, but they have to seem professional and kind-hearted on the outside. It's how the world works.
You are absolutly right but I can't help but feel terrible for eSports in general if this guy is allowed to stick around. Such behaviour can't be swept away with a simple professional statement/apology in my personal opinon.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
you understand that by doing this you are not only punishing the quantic management but also all the players who need those sponsors to get their paychecks??
Hyun just called and said thank you for what you did.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
you understand that by doing this you are not only punishing the quantic management but also all the players who need those sponsors to get their paychecks??
Hyun just called and said thank you for what you did.
Don't worry, we'll buy Hyun when Quantic goes down.
On October 05 2013 05:49 Waise wrote: i don't see the point of rejecting the statement they put out? it sounds like they're going to resolve the situation and just want to do it privately from here on. i understand people saying they won't support quantic now, as it is a pretty big mistake, but the people posting that he's a liar/asshole/manipulator/etc. because the statement is different from the skype log just come off like they WANT drama. accepting apologies and giving people room to regain trust is what makes you a bigger person, not ruthlessly beating someone down when they try to take responsibility for a mistake
don't get me wrong, he comes off horribly in the log. i understand people not wanting him to be running a team. but some of you are making it pretty intensely personal. people do actually get emotional and make mistakes, and i think we all know that the gaming industry is on a low tier of professionalism in general, since these people literally are kids for the most part
The only reason this person is seemingly taking responsibility for his mistake is because Massan went public with this, had he not it would have never come to light and he would have never got his money back. Community pressure was his bargaining chip to make this guy actually do something to make it right. The only reason they will now pretend to care is because a shit storm of this magnitude will severely impact their fan base, which impacts their profits from selling things like shirts as well as their ability to find sponsors to run the team. It's not a noble act, It's his only option if he wants any support for his team at all in the future. Handling this privately before it got to the point where Massan had to go public just to make him do something would have been taking responsibility for his mistake properly.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
you understand that by doing this you are not only punishing the quantic management but also all the players who need those sponsors to get their paychecks??
Hyun just called and said thank you for what you did.
Do you think that Hyun couldn't find a new team? I'm just getting my opinion heard, it's just a single person. I have the right, at least. I would rather have Hyun not be a part of an atrocious organization like that and well, you reap what you sow. I think it's very detrimental to be afraid of doing anything / voicing your opinion because some players will become temporarily teamless. If they don't find new teams, they didn't deserve one in the first place, wouldn't you say? And that spot might now belong to a person who deserves it more, after all. It's not like I am attached to any of Quantic's current players, anyway.
Oh, and apologizes and such are that and this is this, the skype log shows the kind of a person he is pretty well. To me it seemed like he just couldn't accept the fact that he made a mistake, like it was absolutely unthinkable.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
This is the absolute worst way to approach this problem. All you're doing is adding on to the problem of Simon by undermining confidence in e-sports sponsorship. Simon has no impact on the viewers. He has a direct impact on the players which indirectly impacts viewers, but that means it's up to the players to take action, not the community. If mistreatment is an issue which might compel them to leave, then the players must leave on their own will, not the community's. It's quite possible the rest of Quantic's players have perfectly fine working relationships with Simon and all that you're accomplishing in your vendetta against Simon in the end is hurting the players and putting them out of work. Again; it's their call to leave Quantic and let it "die," not yours.
I would really love to see any posts trying to organize the e-mailing of sponsors to at least warrant mod action. edit: I'm tempted to start a thread on it now.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
you understand that by doing this you are not only punishing the quantic management but also all the players who need those sponsors to get their paychecks??
Hyun just called and said thank you for what you did.
Do you think that Hyun couldn't find a new team? I'm just getting my opinion heard, it's just a single person. I have the right, at least. I would rather have Hyun not be a part of an atrocious organization like that and well, you reap what you sow. I think it's very detrimental to be afraid of doing anything / voicing your opinion because some players will become temporarily teamless. If they don't find new teams, they didn't deserve one in the first place, wouldn't you say? And that spot might now belong to a person who deserves it more, after all. It's not like I am attached to any of Quantic's current players, anyway.
You have a right to outwardly support or chastise Hyun for his choice of team, but you have no right whatsoever to dictate which team he may join. You don't even have a right to dictate terms to sponsors. What are the odds you were going to buy a product they made, or if you bought anything from them at all? You're just abusing the sensitivity sponsors have to such a volatile market that describes E-Sports. If more people (who had no reason to whatsoever) e-mailed the sponsors, the entitled fanatics like yourself would be drowned out with normal, rational opinions.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
you understand that by doing this you are not only punishing the quantic management but also all the players who need those sponsors to get their paychecks??
Hyun just called and said thank you for what you did.
Do you think that Hyun couldn't find a new team? I'm just getting my opinion heard, it's just a single person. I have the right, at least. I would rather have Hyun not be a part of an atrocious organization like that and well, you reap what you sow. I think it's very detrimental to be afraid of doing anything / voicing your opinion because some players will become temporarily teamless. If they don't find new teams, they didn't deserve one in the first place, wouldn't you say? And that spot might now belong to a person who deserves it more, after all. It's not like I am attached to any of Quantic's current players, anyway.
Oh, and apologizes and such are that and this is this, the skype log shows the kind of a person he is pretty well. To me it seemed like he just couldn't accept the fact that he made a mistake, like it was absolutely unthinkable.
i think the only person that was benefited by what you did (contacting the sponsors) is you. it doesnt benefit "esports," nor does it benefit any of the players. you're just a vindictive little dude.
On October 05 2013 05:49 Waise wrote: i don't see the point of rejecting the statement they put out? it sounds like they're going to resolve the situation and just want to do it privately from here on. i understand people saying they won't support quantic now, as it is a pretty big mistake, but the people posting that he's a liar/asshole/manipulator/etc. because the statement is different from the skype log just come off like they WANT drama. accepting apologies and giving people room to regain trust is what makes you a bigger person, not ruthlessly beating someone down when they try to take responsibility for a mistake
don't get me wrong, he comes off horribly in the log. i understand people not wanting him to be running a team. but some of you are making it pretty intensely personal. people do actually get emotional and make mistakes, and i think we all know that the gaming industry is on a low tier of professionalism in general, since these people literally are kids for the most part
One of the reason esports is often viewed as unprofessional is because when someone tries to pull this garbage there's always shouts of ''DRAMA'' and people encouraging group hugs, and they can get away with it.
This kind of behavior would be unacceptable in any other sport, and in any other business.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
OP is updated along with dates. Thank you again for your support in this! I'll update it again when every transaction is complete.
on side note, I'd like to keep this between Simon and me, not Quantic and me. Quantic organization, despite being owned by Simon, had nothing to do with it, and no representatives to viewers were involved in this, whether they were informed or not.
I still love Hyun and other players in Quantic, and I'd like them to be not affected by this until they're ready to leave the organization by their own choice, if that ever occurs. Please continue support to your favorite players.
On October 04 2013 18:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: So reading all the logs and the original post I don't understand where the whole "stealing $1400" is coming from. The manager appears grossly, grossly incompetent, possibly an asshole, probably a liar, but I don't see how he was trying to pocket $1400. The only line that would indicate it is "At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket.", but nothing in the text supports that the ticket would have been canceled and refunded entirely (in all the tickets we have booked we've never had anything refunded entirely). MaSsan could easily have found evidence for a ticket in his name being canceled or not, which he didn't.
You can get a 1400$ voucher tho but I think you need to use the same name from the original ticket.
On October 05 2013 06:57 1MaSsan wrote: OP is updated along with dates. Thank you again for your support in this! I'll update it again when every transaction is complete.
on side note, I'd like to keep this between Simon and me, not Quantic and me. Quantic organization, despite being owned by Simon, had nothing to do with it, and no representatives to viewers were involved in this, whether they were informed or not.
I still love Hyun and other players in Quantic, and I'd like them to be not affected by this until they're ready to leave the organization by their own choice, if that ever occurs. Please continue support to your favorite players.
I'm not trying to offend you, but you should stop typing on this issue. You should let Quantic deal with this.
aaaand we're back to deleting the OP and pretending that everything is fine and that simon isn't morbidly, stupidly unprofessional. like there is nothing amiss and if massan is given h is money, all is harmonious and professional and wonderful again. i love how the official statement still fails to acknowledge anything in the chat log, which is simultaneously removed once again. sweepingly invalidating any of it without referencing it directly, by saying that there was simply "a misunderstanding". At first I was going to say that was generous, but it seems closer to being outright dishonest about what actually took place.. Simon gets to hide as best he can from his own community while massan gets the money owed. if simon was really wanted to make things right or be a professional, he could have simply done that - nobody make any mistakes about this - this person did not and still does not give a shit about one of his players - he just needed to throw some money at taking away the bad publicity (which is to say, publicity, of his badness)
I didn't see the pre-edit OP and as far as I can see nobody quoted the entire thing. Could somebody PM me a little summary? It can be very basic. I can't seem to pick up what went on from the context... Thanks and cheers.
On October 05 2013 10:52 Djzapz wrote: I didn't see the pre-edit OP and as far as I can see nobody quoted the entire thing. Could somebody PM me a little summary? It can be very basic. I can't seem to pick up what went on from the context... Thanks and cheers.
On October 05 2013 10:52 Djzapz wrote: I didn't see the pre-edit OP and as far as I can see nobody quoted the entire thing. Could somebody PM me a little summary? It can be very basic. I can't seem to pick up what went on from the context... Thanks and cheers.
On October 05 2013 10:52 Djzapz wrote: I didn't see the pre-edit OP and as far as I can see nobody quoted the entire thing. Could somebody PM me a little summary? It can be very basic. I can't seem to pick up what went on from the context... Thanks and cheers.
Reimbursing MaSsan was definitely the right first step, but honestly I don't know how Quantic salvages this situation. Obviously MaSsan didn't want this to hurt Quantic as an organization because of his respect/friendship with other players...but seeing as the dispute is with the owner of Quantic, it's kind of hard to separate one from the other. Especially when the owner's been exposed to be such a huge, unprofessional douche.
As a sponsor, would you want to sponsor them in the future? As a player, would you ever consider joining this team?
Not that I blame MaSsan in the slightest; this has done irreparable harm to Quantic in my eyes, and the owner has only himself to blame.
On October 05 2013 04:18 ROOTFayth wrote: if they're willing to fix things then all the better for them
I agree.
Although most people will say it's typical PR to what is written in the OP now, it could still be sincere too.
If so, I'll gladly accept it and see how things goes with the team in the future.
Edit - What happened (and also the exchange too) is kind of inexcusable. However there's still a possibility of a lesson being learned here. Of course it can also be argued if the owner of the team did something like that, what's the chance of them doing it again or something similar really? In that case, would be a good idea to just let the owner get a pass?
All good questions. If Quantic is no more, would this give a chance to other or newer teams? Plus, sponsors can feel better knowing that the teams they sponsor don't have this history with issues with players and drama or something.
I guess practical speaking, it's probably not best to give it a pass (even if PR statement apology ended up being sincere, it's just too bad that it happened in the first place).
On October 05 2013 06:57 1MaSsan wrote: OP is updated along with dates. Thank you again for your support in this! I'll update it again when every transaction is complete.
on side note, I'd like to keep this between Simon and me, not Quantic and me. Quantic organization, despite being owned by Simon, had nothing to do with it, and no representatives to viewers were involved in this, whether they were informed or not.
I still love Hyun and other players in Quantic, and I'd like them to be not affected by this until they're ready to leave the organization by their own choice, if that ever occurs. Please continue support to your favorite players.
I'm not trying to offend you, but you should stop typing on this issue. You should let Quantic deal with this.
Doesn't sound like he's overstepping or being outrageous about it. And considering he was the one wronged, I don't see a problem with it
Quantic dropping some dead weight, good for the team overall I think. Better save that money for a plane ticket so that Hyun can attend more EU events xD
On October 05 2013 13:29 stuzH wrote: Quantic dropping some dead weight, good for the team overall I think. Better save that money for a plane ticket so that Hyun can attend more EU events xD
Even if that was the case, you don't "drop dead weight" by having practices that border on fraudulent.
On October 05 2013 06:57 1MaSsan wrote: OP is updated along with dates. Thank you again for your support in this! I'll update it again when every transaction is complete.
on side note, I'd like to keep this between Simon and me, not Quantic and me. Quantic organization, despite being owned by Simon, had nothing to do with it, and no representatives to viewers were involved in this, whether they were informed or not.
I still love Hyun and other players in Quantic, and I'd like them to be not affected by this until they're ready to leave the organization by their own choice, if that ever occurs. Please continue support to your favorite players.
I'm not trying to offend you, but you should stop typing on this issue. You should let Quantic deal with this.
Or we can stop worrying about it as it has been addressed. Simon still did something wrong but at least its been dealt with. We don't need to hurt the players of Quantic anymore with being negative about one of only a few NA teams with money.
Dislike simon all you want, but you can still support the players. If massan says the matter is dealt with then it is dealt with for the time being. Its like you've never been at odds with an employer in the past and tried to address the issues. The mature thing is to move on.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
This is the absolute worst way to approach this problem. All you're doing is adding on to the problem of Simon by undermining confidence in e-sports sponsorship. Simon has no impact on the viewers. He has a direct impact on the players which indirectly impacts viewers, but that means it's up to the players to take action, not the community. If mistreatment is an issue which might compel them to leave, then the players must leave on their own will, not the community's. It's quite possible the rest of Quantic's players have perfectly fine working relationships with Simon and all that you're accomplishing in your vendetta against Simon in the end is hurting the players and putting them out of work. Again; it's their call to leave Quantic and let it "die," not yours.
I would really love to see any posts trying to organize the e-mailing of sponsors to at least warrant mod action. edit: I'm tempted to start a thread on it now.
On October 05 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote: Sent hatemail to all sponsors along the lines of "It's wonderful what you are doing for eSports and I hope that you will continue supporting eSports, but as long as you sponsor Quantic Gaming I cannot bring myself to even consider buying any of your products. Please consider sponsoring a team that deserves being sponsored."
Ridiculous how these children become managers/owners of eSports organisations.
you understand that by doing this you are not only punishing the quantic management but also all the players who need those sponsors to get their paychecks??
Hyun just called and said thank you for what you did.
Do you think that Hyun couldn't find a new team? I'm just getting my opinion heard, it's just a single person. I have the right, at least. I would rather have Hyun not be a part of an atrocious organization like that and well, you reap what you sow. I think it's very detrimental to be afraid of doing anything / voicing your opinion because some players will become temporarily teamless. If they don't find new teams, they didn't deserve one in the first place, wouldn't you say? And that spot might now belong to a person who deserves it more, after all. It's not like I am attached to any of Quantic's current players, anyway.
You have a right to outwardly support or chastise Hyun for his choice of team, but you have no right whatsoever to dictate which team he may join. You don't even have a right to dictate terms to sponsors. What are the odds you were going to buy a product they made, or if you bought anything from them at all? You're just abusing the sensitivity sponsors have to such a volatile market that describes E-Sports. If more people (who had no reason to whatsoever) e-mailed the sponsors, the entitled fanatics like yourself would be drowned out with normal, rational opinions.
the bolded is probably the most eloquent condemnation of people writing to sponsors i've heard. well put.
Writing to sponsors is a great way to kill esports!
Even in the light of how atrocious this person's behavior has been, it's a bad idea to write to sponsors. It's much more intelligent to write the team itself and tell them to fuck Simon. Writing to the sponors themselves... well others have said several times why that's such a fucking bad idea.
On October 05 2013 11:21 Frogstomp wrote: Reimbursing MaSsan was definitely the right first step, but honestly I don't know how Quantic salvages this situation. Obviously MaSsan didn't want this to hurt Quantic as an organization because of his respect/friendship with other players...but seeing as the dispute is with the owner of Quantic, it's kind of hard to separate one from the other. Especially when the owner's been exposed to be such a huge, unprofessional douche.
As a sponsor, would you want to sponsor them in the future? As a player, would you ever consider joining this team?
Not that I blame MaSsan in the slightest; this has done irreparable harm to Quantic in my eyes, and the owner has only himself to blame.
We have to thank MaSsan for speaking up. I think everyone who gets treated like him has the responsibility to make it public. Things will never change if people hush up those incidents. More people will run into problems if people like the quantic owner get away with their actions and repeat it.
So wait if simon is the owner of quantic, and he pays for this with his parents credit cards, is he paying for the team as a whole with his parents cards?
On October 06 2013 00:16 hunts wrote: So wait if simon is the owner of quantic, and he pays for this with his parents credit cards, is he paying for the team as a whole with his parents cards?
Yeah I was trying to think of legit reasons for using someone else's credit card. But honestly since you can use a debit card as "credit" for purchases as long as you have enough money in the bank, there isn't really much reason to use someone else's card anymore.
I personally think Simon just threw the towel in due to how much this whole thing just exploded. Good choice, nonetheless, but I still feel he's doing this out of obligation.
Second and last payment is finally here! Thank you guys so much on helping me on this matter. This would have never happened without support from fans and viewers of TL! I love you guys so much
On October 06 2013 18:14 1MaSsan wrote: Second and last payment is finally here! Thank you guys so much on helping me on this matter. This would have never happened without support from fans and viewers of TL! I love you guys so much
Glad to hear things worked out for you in the end.
it's pretty much GG for quantic. No wonder their CS:GO team would leave them so easily for Complexity.
Question is why he uses Simon uses his parents card?
EDIT:
On October 06 2013 18:14 1MaSsan wrote: Second and last payment is finally here! Thank you guys so much on helping me on this matter. This would have never happened without support from fans and viewers of TL! I love you guys so much
I'm formerly Quantic MaSsan, a Zerg player from Quantic gaming's main roster:Quantic Gaming
As of September 26th, I officially left Quantic Gaming. Many people came to ask why and what not, and I'm just not going to lie about how things went. To my fans, I feel obligated to let them know why I'm leaving the organization.
Before I say anything, I hate to drop another bad news about teams. However, this is something that I believe it needs to be done, and I’m not sure where else to go with it. This post will explain how I left the team in detail, in one heavy load of texts.
Originally I told my ex-coworkers and friends that I will not publicize this, but I learned something about it that I need to do this, so my apologizes to those of who thought I wasn't going to do it.
So, my departure of Quantic Gaming started with me need to purchase flight ticket back to Atlanta, Georgia, USA from Quebec, Canada. When Simon, Quantic Gaming owner heard about this, he convince me that I should buy ticket to Korea as well after visa duration, since I’ll be staying in states with ESTA(basically 90 days travel visa), he said despite me been in states for 9 years, I’ll need it to pass inspection on customs as I enter the country(which I have yet to confirm if it’s true). Then he offered me that I let Simon buy the ticket, since I’ll be getting possibly cheaper flights and he can get mileages off his account since he’s frequent customer, which I took.
I told him to purchase a ticket that will allow me to stay in for anytime between 85 to 90 days. Initially my departure date from states was on Thursday, but then I had him moved to Tuesday for my own convenience, which should have only shortened the duration. I sent $1400, ticket cost, to him via Paypal.
Then I took the flight to Atlanta, and I learned that my flight ticket is actually is for 91 days even after the 2 days adjustment, and I had to go through secondary inspection where I convinced the security that I’ll be leaving before my visa expires.
So I told Simon that he had booked wrong flight, hence I needed it either changed or refunded so I can use new ticket. Simon told me that there is a form he can fill for me to extend my stay. I call embassy and found out that there is no such form, and I learned that what he told me was either lie or was given wrong information. I told him about it and he told me to stop bother him for now so I gave him time to find it out on his own.
5 days later, I asked for a form if he could find it. He told me that he called and he cannot change ticket nor can be refunded. It was very confusing for me since ticket says we’re able to change as long as we pay the differences, and I told him I’ll pay for that too. He ignored me on any conversation about forms, but just told me about how he cannot change anything about ticket, and he will not pay any money to buy new ticket since it was my error to have date wrong because I was next to him talking when he was purchasing ticket. Upon hearing that, I told him it’ll be on his dad’s credit card(he purchased with it) otherwise, so we need to fix the problem together.
He freaked out on the part me saying “it’ll be on his dad’s credit card”, and told me “good luck finding new team”, along with how “asshole”, and it is a good thing I sent it as gift on Paypal so I won’t be able to get it back. Being confused, I told him we need to find solution, I’m yet thankful for my stay at quantic house, but it doesn’t mean he can randomly decide to take money away. He told me that when I threaten quantic, I deal with consequences(which I was very confused about, I don’t remember making any threats, especially to quantic). I tried to talk him into senses since he seemed to be in freaked-out status. He told me “will review the matter tonight and see what I can do until then Nothing to say”.
I agreed to this and meanwhile, I called travel agency that he initially contacted. There I learned that you can always change the ticket as long as there is availability, and pay the ticket differential. I also learned that it’ll cost him $163 to change it. During this time, he removed all my information from the website, and removed me from quantic.
For 3 days after the incident, I messaged Simon every night just to get him back since he was logging on and off, while he ignored me completely. At the end of the day, he got either nice mileage on his account, or refund from canceling ticket. On me, I lost $1400 ticket and had to purchase another. From what point he was lying or was trying to screw me it doesn’t matter. Despite the fact that it seem like he did this from very beginning, but I can understand mistakes. However, from the moment he was telling me about forms, he was purely lying and was trying to scam me over.
After learning that he was lying to me in every possibly way, including visa, form, ticket, travel agency and every other things, I contacted Paypal and tried to cancel payment(which didn’t work out since I sent as gift), and I’m in process filing IC3(internet crime complaint center) on US government, which I’m not sure how US government will punish Canadian until he comes into US. I’ll be looking for similar form that I can fill for Canadians on Canadian government for scam he did to me.
Few days after, Simon contacted me saying good luck getting my money back, and he indeed changed the ticket at the moment I contacted him, which he will not give it to me obviously because I’m double face asshole. He told me that the ticket cost him 85 dollars(by default ticket changing fee costs 100 minimum, so it’s lie, but I still called airline and confirmed that it indeed is a lie and ticket was not changed from the beginning)
As said, I wasn’t going to reveal this to public for the good of my friends who still remains in the team. However, I learned that Simon has been telling others that I stole money from his pocket as I left the place, and I threatened him meanwhile. I will not stand framing. I cannot imagine what he's going to tell others if he tells quantic gaming that I have stole his property and threatened him, as well as I'm full of lies that I never spoke of, hence I decided to go public with this. I love Starcraft 2 and it's community. I didn't want my career to end with me leaving Quantic, and this seemed only way to prevent that.
You can find detailed skype chat down below, everything from start to the end to not give you any wrong information or even try to hide it. To make sure any part is not cropped, I copy pasted end part of screenshot at the beginning of next screen shot. This might includes some information that it shouldn’t be on public, but I cannot find a way to give you top to bottom view otherwise.
As of now, I'd like to ask formal apologize from Quantic gamings owner, Simon Boudreault, as well as refund for ticket, although it is very unlikely to happen given situation.
As a note, I have not told any lies about organization to anyone especially to my teammates. However, I cannot prevent lie If information feeder, which are Quantic Gamings Organization Management team, lied to me to begin with. Then I'm sorry to hear that you had to lie about how things were handled and went to cover up what actually happen when you told me about those.
Thank you viewers for reading this hell of texts. I appreciate your support on the organization and me, and I really hope this doesn't change your view on Starcrtaft scene.
On October 06 2013 01:55 oDieN wrote: I personally think Simon just threw the towel in due to how much this whole thing just exploded. Good choice, nonetheless, but I still feel he's doing this out of obligation.
joint statement: blah blah blah, my ass was exposed and the only reason i paid massan back is cause i care about my public image. we are great friends and that's why i tried to not pay him back at all.
On October 09 2013 06:50 zev318 wrote: joint statement: blah blah blah, my ass was exposed and the only reason i paid massan back is cause i care about my public image. we are great friends and that's why i tried to not pay him back at all.
hahaha. yep, he got what he wanted. look at this page full of people going "yay everything was happy in the end" XD
On October 09 2013 06:50 zev318 wrote: joint statement: blah blah blah, my ass was exposed and the only reason i paid massan back is cause i care about my public image. we are great friends and that's why i tried to not pay him back at all.
Lol and i thought i was the only who could see this LOL ;P Quantic is still shady as fuck and i'd recommend everyone stay away from them.
On October 09 2013 12:06 Madder wrote: Wait, so is this Simon guy still in Quantic even after what happened?
Yes. He has not fired himself yet.
LOL.
But it's wonderful to see the power of a simple TL post time and time again, I'm happy you received the final and full payment of what was owned to you! Best of luck where ever you go now
On October 06 2013 00:16 hunts wrote: So wait if simon is the owner of quantic, and he pays for this with his parents credit cards, is he paying for the team as a whole with his parents cards?
Yeah I was trying to think of legit reasons for using someone else's credit card. But honestly since you can use a debit card as "credit" for purchases as long as you have enough money in the bank, there isn't really much reason to use someone else's card anymore.
That's not true. Although you can use debit as credit. Using a credit card have more protection for the user than a debit card. Maybe he was trying to secure his purchases?
I seriously think the original post and the conversation posted by massan should stay on the thread so that people in the future who read this are not misinformed about this incident. If this Simon guy wants to REALLY apologize, he should be a man and live up to his actions. He should leave the original post as it was and resign from his position ASAP. This type of action should never be excused and the original perpetrator has to learn from his mistake. I just have to say, "Once a scumbag always a scumbag."
EPT
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