Jjakji and soO advance to Ro16, INnoVation and Super eliminated
by stuchiu
First in the line of one-and-done GSL champions, mYi.jjakji was the target of much skepticism when he finally made it back into Code S after over a year in Code A exile. Well, doubt no more. Jjakji returned into full form last night as he played the best Starcraft he had shown since his championship run in November of 2011. While it remains to be seen whether or not jjakji is a championship caliber player, he showed he is certainly an excellent on. Sniper and Seed, please take note.
However, the unexpected revival of one championship winning Terran came at the cost of the equally surprising collapse of another. Acer.INnoVation, considered by far the favorite to advance from the group beforehand, fell to both jjakji and SKT_soO to be eliminated from the tournament.
Jjakji started off the night by facing the maddeningly consistent SKT_soO. An extremely well-executed 8-8-8 build caught soO off guard, giving jjakji a quick 1 - 0 lead.
In a drastic change of pace, the second game on Frost allowed both Jjakji and Soo to show off their late-game abilities as both players bashed heads in the middle of the map over and over again. Though Jjakji seemed to get the upper-hand in engagements, Soo found a way to just barely defend and force a constant state of deadlock. In the process, both players continually expanded outward on the map until it was nearly a split map situation.
As the game dragged on Jjakji was finally able to get a decisive edge over soO with his better management in late-game TvZ. With Soo transitioning into ultra-muta-ling-bane, Jjakji took advantage of Soo’s less mobile units to continually drop harass all over the map, all the while clearing the creep out of the center and setting up a well-entrenched position. This culminated in a desperate attempt by Soo to bust through the center, trying to break Jjakji's ever tightening grip on the game. However, Jjakji was able to easily hold off the attack, and with even more crippling drop harass left soO no choice but to surrender the series.
The winner's match against INnoVation was rougher for Jjakji, but he emerged victorious nonetheless. He began the series by getting the worse end of an accidental base trade, leaving him down one game early on.
However, Jjakji rallied back by beating Innovation twice with better positional play to win the series. In the second game, Jjakji distracted all of INnovation’s anti-air defenses with a banshee, using the diversion to break the natural with an autoturret-marine-tank push. The last game saw Jjakji scare Innovation with a frontal assault on Akilon Wastes which turned into a slow siege from the natural. From there Jjakji slowly chipped away until he forced an overaggressive tank hop-step from a frustrated INnoVation. Jjakji quickly rushed in and killed the tanks with his marines, wiping out the backbone of INnoVation's defenses to win the game.
SoO Good
Down in the losers match, soO was joined by MVP.Super, who had failed to survive INnoVation's marine-marauder-medivac barrage in his initial series.
In the first set, Soo got the upper hand in getting to the late game with a stronger economy, and used a muta transition to catch Super off guard. However, Super was able to balance offense and defense perfectly, marching a portion of his army across the map while he held off the mutas at home with reinforcing blink stalkers and phoenixes. soO was unable to deal with this perfect division of forces, and GG'd out of game one.
After learning from his mistakes in the first game, Soo opted for a fast ling speed into double upgrades for games two and three. Both times he got ahead of Super in economy and tech, winning late with one big engagement to end it all. In the second game he swarmed over Super with mutas, ultras and lings. In the third game it was with a large broodlord-corruptor-queen-ultra army that gave soO the win.
Soo then went onto the final match, where he made himself the third Zerg this month to break Innovation in the TvZ matchup. DRG had out-mechaniched Innovation in straight up macro games. Curious had outsmarted and out-strategized Innovation in the IEM qualifiers. In soO's case, he brought back the roach bane all in to punish Innovation for his greed on game one. In the second game he went head to head with Innovation in a macro game, and while it looked good for Innovation as he started to rev up his endless 3 base parade push, Soo caught him slipping with one bad engagement and chased him all the way back to his base. With half his units on a move rally across the map, Innovation was cut down by Soo’s army that did massive damage to the medivac count and SCV line. From there Soo transitioned into ultralisks and dealt the final blow to Innovation’s once vaunted TvZ.
PartinG Notes
INnoVation, the false idol? — Once considered the heir to the Terran throne after Mvp’s voluntary exile to WCS EU, INnoVation has yet to fill the hole that Mvp left behind. Yes, he was the best player in the world for a while and even now he still belongs to the top tier. But the marked difference between the two is that Mvp had those mysterious intangibles, while INnoVation is hopelessly predictable. Innovation won because he was mechanically superior to everyone else. Mvp won because he was Mvp.
INnoVation's play is now starting to show cracks. With his loss to Jjakji, he has gone 7-22 in his last 29 TvT matches since the Hellbat patch. His TvZ is still the best in the world, but it is no longer untouchable. His PvT has become so predictable that Panic (who?) beat him the other night in GSTL with 9 cannons just waiting for his SCV pull. Innovation is still one of the strongest Terrans out there, but he is no longer at the head of the pack. He is just one of the many who dared to briefly sit on the throne that Mvp left behind.
Quick hit on Super — What was that PvT build against Innovation? Two colossi into immortals into third base? What does that even beat?
Really pleased to see jjakji on the upswing. His GSL win against Leenock is still one of my favorite finals ever. I was afraid he'd fade into obscurity with the disbandment of NSHS, but he's proven me wrong.
(T)Jjakji started off the night by facing the maddeningly consistent (Z)SKT_soO. An extremely well-executed 8-8-8 build caught soO off guard, giving jjakji a quick 1 - 0 lead.
(T)Jjakji started off the night by facing the maddeningly consistent (Z)SKT_soO. An extremely well-executed 8-8-8 build caught soO off guard, giving jjakji a quick 1 - 0 lead.
Show some respect to the guy who defeated Bear to claim the UWC title! really happy to see jjakji back, though. Imagine if he reappears from nowhere this season, takes the gsl title, and then disappears off to WCS EU for next season like he's supposed to. Would be a total jjakji move
I loved the bit comparing Mvp to Innovation, really brought some perspective to things for me, for a while now, i had forgotten just how great Mvp was/is, i may just go back and watch some of his GSL tournament winning runs.
That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
You'll have a hard time convincing anyone that a player deserves to be called the best in the world when he's so bad at TvT that you know he's probably going to lose whenever he goes up against anyone good. Innovation is basically a one matchup specialist at this point, and even his TvZ has looked sketchy lately.
What was that PvT build against Innovation? Two colossi into immortals into third base? What does that even beat?
Even as a Zerg player with limited knowledge of the PvT match up I was wondering the same thing...
I think Tastetosis put it best: "Innovation didn't even do anything fancy, he just showed up at the front door and went 'You're not supposed to have that' and killed him"
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
Honestly? As much as I admire Inno, it's becoming hard to call even his TvZ dominating. Lost to DRG. Lost to SoO. Lost to Curious in the IEM qualifiers. Beat Hyun in the Acer teamstory cup. Those are his recent results against remotely good zergs.
Which...aren't bad results, but don't necessarily indicate a player so good at the matchup that you can call them the best purely because of their TvZ.
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
Honestly? As much as I admire Inno, it's becoming hard to call even his TvZ dominating. Lost to DRG. Lost to SoO. Lost to Curious in the IEM qualifiers. Beat Hyun in the Acer teamstory cup. Those are his recent results against remotely good zergs.
Which...aren't bad results, but don't necessarily indicate a player so good at the matchup that you can call them the best purely because of their TvZ.
That's pretty much my opinion of it as well, I was trying to be polite to innovation though and give him the nod for atleast one matchup. To me the guy just seems to crumble, as was mentioned about his engagement vs. Soo he got frustrated and pretty much threw the game away. For a player to be the best in the world they also cannot become emotionally engrossed in the game, they have to make decisions independent of frustration, ego or anger. Innovation was lauded as a robotic player who played clean strong macro and made good decisions now were seeing those very real cracks. And he is a very good player but he should step back from tournaments for a few weeks and get his head screwed back on straight before he destroys his legacy before he builds it.
I don't want to say it but what separates Innovation from players like Seed and Sniper right now? He won a major tournament, so did they, then they fell off a cliff right after. Is it his lingering before dying that somehow separates him? Someone else mentioned Roro in the same sentence as Seed and Sniper, if he is drawing that sort of comparison already why isn't innovation?
I dislike Innovation... he is predictable as hell.
You see, in WoL, back in the winfestor/GGlord era, he managed to make it to the RO4 twice by all-inning every tvz. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that, at least, 80%-90% of his tvz was just pure all-in. So, Innovation in WoL was just as predictable as it is now, going for 3CC double ebay every single tvz.
The guy is certainly skilled, nobody doubts that fact. But you can not really expect to dominate by just mechanics. That is the difference between Innovation and someone like DRG: strategy is just as important as mechanics. We have plenty of examples of that: Nestea, Mvp, even Elfi lol.
That is why Innovation lacks the aura of a champion. Aura that someone like Life, for example, even in a slump, has. Or DRG. Or Mvp. Or even MMA.
On September 28 2013 13:52 metroid composite wrote:
On September 28 2013 13:13 B_Type13X2 wrote:
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
Honestly? As much as I admire Inno, it's becoming hard to call even his TvZ dominating. Lost to DRG. Lost to SoO. Lost to Curious in the IEM qualifiers. Beat Hyun in the Acer teamstory cup. Those are his recent results against remotely good zergs.
Which...aren't bad results, but don't necessarily indicate a player so good at the matchup that you can call them the best purely because of their TvZ.
That's pretty much my opinion of it as well, I was trying to be polite to innovation though and give him the nod for atleast one matchup. To me the guy just seems to crumble, as was mentioned about his engagement vs. Soo he got frustrated and pretty much threw the game away. For a player to be the best in the world they also cannot become emotionally engrossed in the game, they have to make decisions independent of frustration, ego or anger. Innovation was lauded as a robotic player who played clean strong macro and made good decisions now were seeing those very real cracks. And he is a very good player but he should step back from tournaments for a few weeks and get his head screwed back on straight before he destroys his legacy before he builds it.
I don't want to say it but what separates Innovation from players like Seed and Sniper right now? He won a major tournament, so did they, then they fell off a cliff right after. Is it his lingering before dying that somehow separates him? Someone else mentioned Roro in the same sentence as Seed and Sniper, if he is drawing that sort of comparison already why isn't innovation?
Are you for real? Comparing Innovation to Seed and Sniper and using their ONE big tournament as an argument that they are on the same level is beyond ridiculous. What seperates him from them is that he still can take a series of everyone in the world and that his DOMINATION streak does not span from just one big tournament, his consistancy lasted for more than three months.
On September 28 2013 13:52 metroid composite wrote:
On September 28 2013 13:13 B_Type13X2 wrote:
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
Honestly? As much as I admire Inno, it's becoming hard to call even his TvZ dominating. Lost to DRG. Lost to SoO. Lost to Curious in the IEM qualifiers. Beat Hyun in the Acer teamstory cup. Those are his recent results against remotely good zergs.
Which...aren't bad results, but don't necessarily indicate a player so good at the matchup that you can call them the best purely because of their TvZ.
That's pretty much my opinion of it as well, I was trying to be polite to innovation though and give him the nod for atleast one matchup. To me the guy just seems to crumble, as was mentioned about his engagement vs. Soo he got frustrated and pretty much threw the game away. For a player to be the best in the world they also cannot become emotionally engrossed in the game, they have to make decisions independent of frustration, ego or anger. Innovation was lauded as a robotic player who played clean strong macro and made good decisions now were seeing those very real cracks. And he is a very good player but he should step back from tournaments for a few weeks and get his head screwed back on straight before he destroys his legacy before he builds it.
I don't want to say it but what separates Innovation from players like Seed and Sniper right now? He won a major tournament, so did they, then they fell off a cliff right after. Is it his lingering before dying that somehow separates him? Someone else mentioned Roro in the same sentence as Seed and Sniper, if he is drawing that sort of comparison already why isn't innovation?
Are you for real? Comparing Innovation to Seed and Sniper and using their ONE big tournament as an argument that they are on the same level is beyond ridiculous. What seperates him from them is that he still can take a series of everyone in the world and that his DOMINATION streak does not span from just one big tournament, his consistancy lasted for more than three months.
And how long exactly has innovation lasted after his win? His consistency is one of someone who does the exact same thing and its being figured out. Once people have a road map on how to beat you and you don't make the changes you need to, well bye bye. And that's what innovation is right now figured out by players that are better then him. It doesn't matter if he can take a series off of anyone in the world if that's what mattered above all else then MVP would still be the consensus #1 in the world because even with his injuries he can take a series off of anyone and he almost did it to innovation. No ones calling him the #1 in the world anymore he's not even in the top 10 list. What were seeing is innovation fall into the rank of Elite player but not a special player. Don't be emotional about it as a fan look at where he is right now, this is SC2 a player is very much so of the moment and his moment may have passed him by unless he can adapt to the changing game.
Everytime a protoss starts to win games, he's getting insane protoss hope hypes, and he suddenly has the best PvX (often PvT) in the world. But then the protoss proceeds to lose, usually in a bad way, and we instantly forget him and move on to the next. Last two were First and Super.
How does that relate? Well Inno is suffering this in an elongated way. He's been so hyped for so long, he's just not allowed to lose anymore unless he's underperforming. And if he's underperforming, woo, it's time for all the people who "knew all along" to show up.
That shows so much disrespect in the effort it takes to be one of the best, or to beat one of the best. I have no idea why people see an upset and always go with "the loser sucks" instead of "the winner is amazing". People who do it on a consistent basis shouldn't consider themselves e-sports fans, and shouldn't be allowed to call themselves that.
At least as part of Acer he can still make easy money off foreigners and less skilled Koreans. He's still mechanically superb, so he should still be around unless a massive meta shift comes.
Yeah, Innovation is good but he isn't best player. His TvT has been really bad since hellbat nerf. I don't really recall any series he won against pretty good players. He lost to Bomber, Maru, Taeja and jjakji at least..And his TvP really depends, sometimes he does extremely well but sometimes he loses to lesser players (like the 2-0 against NaNiwa, made no sense from Innovation) comparing him to for example TaeJa it is easy to say which one is better right now.
On September 28 2013 17:10 Vete wrote: I think the big diffrence is between MVP and Innovation is the releasing of replays after the Season. Inno's playstyle was analyzed by everyone.
GOM had every video of every game avalible on demand. Not quite the same as a replay but close enough that it wouldn't matter IMO.
Innovation has 1 build for each match up + rare cheeses. MVP had lots of builds for each and cheesed quite a bit. He was basiclly impossible to predict pre game.
I bet Artosis could cast an innovation game blind folded and get it right
Stop putting some much disrespect upon innovation, hes switched teams and has been trying hard to play his style. I wont argue that he is not the best player in the world but at least hes been consistant in getting high in gsl and other tournaments. True he hasnt won many but at least he hasnt completely slumped. Some people cope changing teams, others take a bit of adjusting. He doesnt have many practise partners to work with anymore so it will take some time for him to get back in shape.
On September 28 2013 14:44 Apoteosis wrote: I dislike Innovation... he is predictable as hell.
You see, in WoL, back in the winfestor/GGlord era, he managed to make it to the RO4 twice by all-inning every tvz. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that, at least, 80%-90% of his tvz was just pure all-in. So, Innovation in WoL was just as predictable as it is now, going for 3CC double ebay every single tvz.
The guy is certainly skilled, nobody doubts that fact. But you can not really expect to dominate by just mechanics. That is the difference between Innovation and someone like DRG: strategy is just as important as mechanics. We have plenty of examples of that: Nestea, Mvp, even Elfi lol.
That is why Innovation lacks the aura of a champion. Aura that someone like Life, for example, even in a slump, has. Or DRG. Or Mvp. Or even MMA.
And by all in you sound like you're referring to " No skill play. " Hate to break it to you bro, but in " all in " doesn't mean the same thing in the foreign scene. Your " all-in " is their " Standard play. "
You make it sound like " all in " makes someone a newbie at starcraft, it's actually rather annoying.
So because Innovation didn't manage to get for the 5th straight time in CodeS Ro8 a feat only acomplished by Soulkey and only went Ro4 Finals Ro8 Ro4 out of his last 4 he is a scrubs and just another Korean Terran ? Well say what you want but mark my words :
If you don't pray the bogus he will hunt you, find you and kill you during your sleep. The only way to survive is to accept him in your hearth and beg for his mercy.
I don't understand this thread title. If I'm not mistaken Innovation lost 1-2 in his group and was eliminated. The title is very misleading. It should read "INnoVation eliminated from WCS because he was obviously participating.
On September 28 2013 13:52 metroid composite wrote:
On September 28 2013 13:13 B_Type13X2 wrote:
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
Honestly? As much as I admire Inno, it's becoming hard to call even his TvZ dominating. Lost to DRG. Lost to SoO. Lost to Curious in the IEM qualifiers. Beat Hyun in the Acer teamstory cup. Those are his recent results against remotely good zergs.
Which...aren't bad results, but don't necessarily indicate a player so good at the matchup that you can call them the best purely because of their TvZ.
That's pretty much my opinion of it as well, I was trying to be polite to innovation though and give him the nod for atleast one matchup. To me the guy just seems to crumble, as was mentioned about his engagement vs. Soo he got frustrated and pretty much threw the game away. For a player to be the best in the world they also cannot become emotionally engrossed in the game, they have to make decisions independent of frustration, ego or anger. Innovation was lauded as a robotic player who played clean strong macro and made good decisions now were seeing those very real cracks. And he is a very good player but he should step back from tournaments for a few weeks and get his head screwed back on straight before he destroys his legacy before he builds it.
I don't want to say it but what separates Innovation from players like Seed and Sniper right now? He won a major tournament, so did they, then they fell off a cliff right after. Is it his lingering before dying that somehow separates him? Someone else mentioned Roro in the same sentence as Seed and Sniper, if he is drawing that sort of comparison already why isn't innovation?
Are you for real? Comparing Innovation to Seed and Sniper and using their ONE big tournament as an argument that they are on the same level is beyond ridiculous. What seperates him from them is that he still can take a series of everyone in the world and that his DOMINATION streak does not span from just one big tournament, his consistancy lasted for more than three months.
And how long exactly has innovation lasted after his win? His consistency is one of someone who does the exact same thing and its being figured out. Once people have a road map on how to beat you and you don't make the changes you need to, well bye bye. And that's what innovation is right now figured out by players that are better then him. It doesn't matter if he can take a series off of anyone in the world if that's what mattered above all else then MVP would still be the consensus #1 in the world because even with his injuries he can take a series off of anyone and he almost did it to innovation. No ones calling him the #1 in the world anymore he's not even in the top 10 list. What were seeing is innovation fall into the rank of Elite player but not a special player. Don't be emotional about it as a fan look at where he is right now, this is SC2 a player is very much so of the moment and his moment may have passed him by unless he can adapt to the changing game.
You completely missed the point. The thing I reacted to was you comparing his skill to that of Seed and Sniper, two people nowhere close to the top-tier of elite players. Innovation is a very formidable opponent, the game he wins in is in 7/10 a complete domination, I simply can't get my head around how you think he is not in the top 10 list. He is competing in the most skilled region of them all. The time MVP was dominating in was when the game wasn't completely figured out. I can agree that his decision making is top 3 in the world, but to dominate then and to dominate now is two complete species, to be dominating now means you either have to play very gimmicky or simply outperform your opponents in basics in a time of ridicilously better players. Which Innovation does. And I'm not a hardcore fan of his, I'm simply reacting to your ridiculous train of thought.
So sad about Super I really think he's one of the better Protosses out there today he just didn't play as well as he could in this group. Props to Jjakji though! SoO continuing to beat favorites.
On September 28 2013 21:38 FFW_Rude wrote: OH yEAh Innovation is out ! Time for Flash to show who is the true terran god ! (please do not disapoint me !)
It's 2011, baby, Flash is still playing BW, it's just Clide pretending to be Flash.
I think innovation is in a bad minset now he makes really bad MACRO mistakes like beeing supply blocked a long, long time (e.g. on akkilon wastes vs soo he sad around 137 for at lest a full minute if not more) and this is not really something that should happen to ANY proplayer cause it is a fundamental basic thing. So i think that there must be a real heavy impact of a bad mindest to let things like this happen on a regular bases. That he still has close games beside that just shows how good he really is.
Also it seems that he is focusing more on fancy drop micro and stuff instead of fixing these errors. (again see akkilon game).
TvT though is another storry but if you only had last to play against in the regular cirucumstances and now mma i think you will improve overtime.
With only gstl for him to play in i really hope he fixes his mindset till blizzcon and his tvt with mma so he will rock at blizzcon again - tbh i have no doubt that he will do this
For all those ppl calling him "patch terran" or sth like this: Why are you so incredibly jaelaouse? If you win in SC 2 you played better than your opponent. If that is due to decision making in a crappy base trade or just mechanicly way superioir macro. He did this a very long time and is still a top notch player so stop the hate... my gosh.
On September 28 2013 16:43 Nebuchad wrote: How does that relate? Well Inno is suffering this in an elongated way. He's been so hyped for so long, he's just not allowed to lose anymore unless he's underperforming. And if he's underperforming, woo, it's time for all the people who "knew all along" to show up.
That shows so much disrespect in the effort it takes to be one of the best, or to beat one of the best. I have no idea why people see an upset and always go with "the loser sucks" instead of "the winner is amazing". People who do it on a consistent basis shouldn't consider themselves e-sports fans, and shouldn't be allowed to call themselves that.
On September 28 2013 18:23 Orcasgt24 wrote: Innovation has 1 build for each match up + rare cheeses. MVP had lots of builds for each and cheesed quite a bit. He was basiclly impossible to predict pre game.
I bet Artosis could cast an innovation game blind folded and get it right
Maybe that is not belonging here but is that not a problem of Terrans in general really? Expcept TvT you do not have much variety in doing builds and mostly everything except 11/11 and tvp scv pull are macro builds. So maybe terrans overall are too predictable.
INnoVation, the false idol? — Once considered the heir to the Terran throne after Mvp’s voluntary exile to WCS EU, INnoVation has yet to fill the hole that Mvp left behind. Yes, he was the best player in the world for a while and even now he still belongs to the top tier. But the marked difference between the two is that Mvp had those mysterious intangibles, while INnoVation is hopelessly predictable. Innovation won because he was mechanically superior to everyone else. Mvp won because he was Mvp.
INnoVation, the false idol? — Once considered the heir to the Terran throne after Mvp’s voluntary exile to WCS EU, INnoVation has yet to fill the hole that Mvp left behind. Yes, he was the best player in the world for a while and even now he still belongs to the top tier. But the marked difference between the two is that Mvp had those mysterious intangibles, while INnoVation is hopelessly predictable. Innovation won because he was mechanically superior to everyone else. Mvp won because he was Mvp.
Them feels :') Mvp never forgotten in heart, the man and the myth. This is what happens when you gain your skills by cursing upon a cursed monkey paw bogus* ;D
On September 28 2013 14:44 Apoteosis wrote: I dislike Innovation... he is predictable as hell.
You see, in WoL, back in the winfestor/GGlord era, he managed to make it to the RO4 twice by all-inning every tvz. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that, at least, 80%-90% of his tvz was just pure all-in. So, Innovation in WoL was just as predictable as it is now, going for 3CC double ebay every single tvz.
The guy is certainly skilled, nobody doubts that fact. But you can not really expect to dominate by just mechanics. That is the difference between Innovation and someone like DRG: strategy is just as important as mechanics. We have plenty of examples of that: Nestea, Mvp, even Elfi lol.
That is why Innovation lacks the aura of a champion. Aura that someone like Life, for example, even in a slump, has. Or DRG. Or Mvp. Or even MMA.
And by all in you sound like you're referring to " No skill play. " Hate to break it to you bro, but in " all in " doesn't mean the same thing in the foreign scene. Your " all-in " is their " Standard play. "
You make it sound like " all in " makes someone a newbie at starcraft, it's actually rather annoying.
No it is not that. You need skill to create and execute an all-in. I am just pointing out the predictable style of Innovation. In WoL, he used the same style (all-in, timing pushes) in all matches. Now in HoTS, he uses another style every single match (3CC double ebay).
On September 28 2013 13:52 metroid composite wrote:
On September 28 2013 13:13 B_Type13X2 wrote:
On September 28 2013 12:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: That was such a random botched engagement by Innovation against Soo. No disrespect to Soo, but he really didn't deserve to win that. And just how quickly does the starcraft community usually bury the champions of yesterday? I don't think you could make a remotely credible argument that Innovation isn't still the overall best player, even with his weak spot of TvT.
Actually you can. It doesn't matter if your the best TvZ in the world or the best TvP (which I doubt he does) in the world if the moment you run into Taeja, MMA, Bomber, or in this case Jjakji and you lose. The best player in the world should be top 3 in the world in all matches which he just isn't now. He's definately top 10 but I wouldn't even place him top 5 anymore when there are so many players that are better then him TvT and good enough in the other matches so it doesn't matter.
Honestly? As much as I admire Inno, it's becoming hard to call even his TvZ dominating. Lost to DRG. Lost to SoO. Lost to Curious in the IEM qualifiers. Beat Hyun in the Acer teamstory cup. Those are his recent results against remotely good zergs.
Which...aren't bad results, but don't necessarily indicate a player so good at the matchup that you can call them the best purely because of their TvZ.
That's pretty much my opinion of it as well, I was trying to be polite to innovation though and give him the nod for atleast one matchup. To me the guy just seems to crumble, as was mentioned about his engagement vs. Soo he got frustrated and pretty much threw the game away. For a player to be the best in the world they also cannot become emotionally engrossed in the game, they have to make decisions independent of frustration, ego or anger. Innovation was lauded as a robotic player who played clean strong macro and made good decisions now were seeing those very real cracks. And he is a very good player but he should step back from tournaments for a few weeks and get his head screwed back on straight before he destroys his legacy before he builds it.
I don't want to say it but what separates Innovation from players like Seed and Sniper right now? He won a major tournament, so did they, then they fell off a cliff right after. Is it his lingering before dying that somehow separates him? Someone else mentioned Roro in the same sentence as Seed and Sniper, if he is drawing that sort of comparison already why isn't innovation?
Are you for real? Comparing Innovation to Seed and Sniper and using their ONE big tournament as an argument that they are on the same level is beyond ridiculous. What seperates him from them is that he still can take a series of everyone in the world and that his DOMINATION streak does not span from just one big tournament, his consistancy lasted for more than three months.
And how long exactly has innovation lasted after his win? His consistency is one of someone who does the exact same thing and its being figured out. Once people have a road map on how to beat you and you don't make the changes you need to, well bye bye. And that's what innovation is right now figured out by players that are better then him. It doesn't matter if he can take a series off of anyone in the world if that's what mattered above all else then MVP would still be the consensus #1 in the world because even with his injuries he can take a series off of anyone and he almost did it to innovation. No ones calling him the #1 in the world anymore he's not even in the top 10 list. What were seeing is innovation fall into the rank of Elite player but not a special player. Don't be emotional about it as a fan look at where he is right now, this is SC2 a player is very much so of the moment and his moment may have passed him by unless he can adapt to the changing game.
You completely missed the point. The thing I reacted to was you comparing his skill to that of Seed and Sniper, two people nowhere close to the top-tier of elite players. Innovation is a very formidable opponent, the game he wins in is in 7/10 a complete domination, I simply can't get my head around how you think he is not in the top 10 list. He is competing in the most skilled region of them all. The time MVP was dominating in was when the game wasn't completely figured out. I can agree that his decision making is top 3 in the world, but to dominate then and to dominate now is two complete species, to be dominating now means you either have to play very gimmicky or simply outperform your opponents in basics in a time of ridicilously better players. Which Innovation does. And I'm not a hardcore fan of his, I'm simply reacting to your ridiculous train of thought.
I'm going to stop you with the bolded part because I had already stated in this exact string of quotes that Innovation is a top 10 player just not top 5 anymore because he has been figured out. His TvT is figured out and with his latest batch of Zerg games its safe to say that that match up of his is figured out too. Keep track of what was said or its pointless to have a debate. And the comparison to Sniper and Seed comes from how for a short time period they were like it or not best in the world then they disappeared, they got figured out and that was it. You can say the same thing about Roro right now, my point was there's not alot stopping innovation from becoming just like those 3. He got figured out now he needs to adapt his game, if he doesn't we'll see him fall out of the top 10 players in the world and that will be fast coming as the availability of replays lets players make a template on just how to beat you. Is that not clear and understandable enough?
Innovation looks very mortal nowadays, which I don't think it's a bad thing either. Still a top Korean but him being figured out like that might make him rethink his strategies...and fix his horrendous tvt. He would be poised to take Blizzcon if that happens, nyan.
On September 29 2013 09:00 SeraNyan wrote: Innovation looks very mortal nowadays, which I don't think it's a bad thing either. Still a top Korean but him being figured out like that might make him rethink his strategies...and fix his horrendous tvt. He would be poised to take Blizzcon if that happens, nyan.
So you think his play could use a little.....Innovation? :D
On September 29 2013 09:00 SeraNyan wrote: Innovation looks very mortal nowadays, which I don't think it's a bad thing either. Still a top Korean but him being figured out like that might make him rethink his strategies...and fix his horrendous tvt. He would be poised to take Blizzcon if that happens, nyan.
So you think his play could use a little.....Innovation? :D
Actually yea, he is completely opposite of his ingame name. Just imagine if he had the same innovation as Mvp.
EPT
mYi.jjakji was the target of much skepticism when he finally made it back into Code S after over a year in Code A exile. Well, doubt no more. Jjakji returned into full form last night as he played the best Starcraft he had shown since his championship run in November of 2011. While it remains to be seen whether or not jjakji is a championship caliber player, he showed he is certainly an excellent on. 
Sniper and 
Seed, please take note.
