|
On January 08 2014 07:10 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
In order to stay at the same level in rankings you need to be constantly improving to compensate for: 1) other players improving, 2) lower level players giving up on the game faster than hardcore gamers, so better ranked players take their spots in lower leagues, while their spots are taken by others and so on. This is how competition works, take it or leave it.
You have no idea if he was improving - and this is an incredibly widespread issue which has been acknowledged by Blizzard.
Jesus, that was condescending.
|
On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
Edit: I have seen Painuser get demoted mid season from Diamond to Plat on one of his marathon streams with no sleep, so yea, they exist still.
'Demotions' can only happen via placement matches. You cannot be demoted mid-season unless you use 'leave league' feature and then play a new placement match.
|
On January 08 2014 07:18 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
Edit: I have seen Painuser get demoted mid season from Diamond to Plat on one of his marathon streams with no sleep, so yea, they exist still. 'Demotions' can only happen via placement matches. You cannot be demoted mid-season unless you use 'leave league' feature and then play a new placement match.
I saw what I saw.
|
On January 08 2014 07:10 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
In order to stay at the same level in rankings you need to be constantly improving to compensate for: 1) other players improving, 2) lower level players giving up on the game faster than hardcore gamers, so better ranked players take their spots in lower leagues, while their spots are taken by others and so on. This is how competition works, take it or leave it.
Take it or leave it? Seems to me a lot of former players have chosen the second option.
|
On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
Edit: I have seen Painuser get demoted mid season from Diamond to Plat on one of his marathon streams with no sleep, so yea, they exist still.
Painuser leaves league every couple of days,that is not demotion as it once was.
|
In 4s I just got double demoted during my placement match despite being on a massive win streak including my placement match.
To be fair I was playing with really good teammates during much of that streak, but I have still won several without them.
|
On January 08 2014 07:33 Liman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
Edit: I have seen Painuser get demoted mid season from Diamond to Plat on one of his marathon streams with no sleep, so yea, they exist still. Painuser leaves league every couple of days,that is not demotion as it once was.
He was in diamond league, lost a bunch in a row, and got demoted. I'm not making this up and i'm not a liar. Maybe he was playing WoL who knows.
|
There are a lot of gold players with 160+ apm lately. It kills the desire to earn rank, doesn't it? How can gaining a league feel good if the leagues mean nothing anymore?
|
On January 08 2014 07:47 CutTheEnemy wrote:
There are a lot of gold players with 160+ apm lately. It kills the desire to earn rank, doesn't it? How can gaining a league feel good if the leagues mean nothing anymore?
Well said.. +1
|
On January 08 2014 07:35 meadbert wrote:
In 4s I just got double demoted during my placement match despite being on a massive win streak including my placement match.
To be fair I was playing with really good teammates during much of that streak, but I have still won several without them.
Each arranged team and Non-Arranged MMR are seperate.
|
On January 08 2014 07:14 tili wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 07:10 Cheerio wrote:On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
In order to stay at the same level in rankings you need to be constantly improving to compensate for: 1) other players improving, 2) lower level players giving up on the game faster than hardcore gamers, so better ranked players take their spots in lower leagues, while their spots are taken by others and so on. This is how competition works, take it or leave it. You have no idea if he was improving - and this is an incredibly widespread issue which has been acknowledged by Blizzard. Jesus, that was condescending.
what issue, that people don't want to be demoted?
|
On January 08 2014 08:43 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 07:14 tili wrote:On January 08 2014 07:10 Cheerio wrote:On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
In order to stay at the same level in rankings you need to be constantly improving to compensate for: 1) other players improving, 2) lower level players giving up on the game faster than hardcore gamers, so better ranked players take their spots in lower leagues, while their spots are taken by others and so on. This is how competition works, take it or leave it. You have no idea if he was improving - and this is an incredibly widespread issue which has been acknowledged by Blizzard. Jesus, that was condescending. what issue, that people don't want to be demoted?
No, that the league system's distribution has led to an over representation of bronze and silver and platinum+ leagues being under populated.
Since the leagues are supposed to represent percentiles, this is a system flaw.
|
On January 08 2014 08:22 tili wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 07:35 meadbert wrote:
In 4s I just got double demoted during my placement match despite being on a massive win streak including my placement match.
To be fair I was playing with really good teammates during much of that streak, but I have still won several without them. Each arranged team and Non-Arranged MMR are seperate.
This was not a fully arranged team. There were 2-3 of us in a party playing 4s.
|
On January 08 2014 07:47 CutTheEnemy wrote:
There are a lot of gold players with 160+ apm lately. It kills the desire to earn rank, doesn't it? How can gaining a league feel good if the leagues mean nothing anymore?
Why would you ever play any game solely for ranks? I read some people on the battle.net forums talking about how they no longer play 1v1 ranked due to the current issue. I mean do you seriously play this game to see some rank improve that only tells you how good you are compared to everyone else on your server? Personally I play this game first and foremost because I enjoy playing it and then secondly because I enjoy the constant improvement you experience while playing a decent RTS game.
I mean I understand that I may be frustrating for the game to give you are worse rank then you are used to, or for you to get matched up with people that are far from your skill (though if he is worse you get an easy win, if he is better you have more to learn), but I can never understand how such a thing could be so important to you that you just stop playing the game. Though I also have a hard time comprehending while one would play solely to win on ladder too, so I guess maybe I'm just out of touch with the average player.
|
On January 08 2014 07:47 CutTheEnemy wrote:
There are a lot of gold players with 160+ apm lately. It kills the desire to earn rank, doesn't it? How can gaining a league feel good if the leagues mean nothing anymore?
Why would you ever play any game solely for ranks? I read some people on the battle.net forums talking about how they no longer play 1v1 ranked due to the current issue. I mean do you seriously play this game to see some rank improve that only tells you how good you are compared to everyone else on your server? Personally I play this game first and foremost because I enjoy playing it and then secondly because I enjoy the constant improvement you experience while playing a decent RTS game.
I mean I understand that I may be frustrating for the game to give you are worse rank then you are used to, or for you to get matched up with people that are far from your skill (though if he is worse you get an easy win, if he is better you have more to learn), but I can never understand how such a thing could be so important to you that you just stop playing the game. Though I also have a hard time comprehending why one would play solely to win on ladder too, so I guess maybe I'm just out of touch with the average player.
|
On January 08 2014 07:39 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 07:33 Liman wrote:On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
Edit: I have seen Painuser get demoted mid season from Diamond to Plat on one of his marathon streams with no sleep, so yea, they exist still. Painuser leaves league every couple of days,that is not demotion as it once was. He was in diamond league, lost a bunch in a row, and got demoted. I'm not making this up and i'm not a liar. Maybe he was playing WoL who knows.
You sure you didn't look away for a second while he left his league and entered a new game? Mid-season demotions is not happening anymore because they removed it. If he did indeed get demoted then it was most likely due to a glitch in the matrix or w/e.
|
Tried out the decay theory, just played 1 game every 8-13 days for random 2/3/4's, kept all my leagues (plat/diamond).
~9 games on a season, no decay.
|
lol it's not a theory. you also don't get demoted mid-season
|
On January 08 2014 07:14 tili wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2014 07:10 Cheerio wrote:On January 08 2014 04:22 Ctone23 wrote:
It's really quite simple, in my opinion it's demoralizing. The explanations, graphs, all the justification, seem way inadequate.
The goal for me, and other players I have talked to who also got demoted, is to someday break masters league (or diamond, whatever) and it's SO demoralizing to get demoted at the beginning of a season. I and other players have been active the whole time, so decay explains nothing. Why demote players down a league? Makes no sense and it sucks because I really want more people to play the game.
In order to stay at the same level in rankings you need to be constantly improving to compensate for: 1) other players improving, 2) lower level players giving up on the game faster than hardcore gamers, so better ranked players take their spots in lower leagues, while their spots are taken by others and so on. This is how competition works, take it or leave it. You have no idea if he was improving - and this is an incredibly widespread issue which has been acknowledged by Blizzard. Jesus, that was condescending.
How is it condescending to say what he said?
The ladder is ranked scale relative to skill levels within the population.
If you don't improve in skill at a faster rate than the population, you will get demoted.
If you maintain the rate of improvement at the same rate as the population, but the lower ranked players leave the game, then more people who are "higher skilled" gets dropped down to the lower leagues because they are now the bottom of the bell curve.
It has nothing to do with players being good or bad, bronze simply means the bottom X percent of Y population. If you are unable to improve yourself faster than the local population of your league, you will get demoted. If you are only able to maintain the same rate of improvement as your local population, then once people below you stop playing then you will be demoted.
That is math, not condescension.
|
On January 11 2014 03:17 Ignorant prodigy wrote:
lol it's not a theory. you also don't get demoted mid-season
I don't think you know what the word "Theory" means....
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
