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BROODWAR WAS SO MUCHBETTER OMFG YOU CASUAL NOOBS BW BW BW COLOSSI SO BROKEN.
There are custom maps in SC2 with BW maps and units also AI and some control (toggle on of: CG limit, no smartcast, Automining)
Go ahead, take 30 minutes to design a Homepage.
Write down the terms of competition (maps played, gamespeed options etc)
Players can register with the page and find opponents by scrolling profiles or using chat.
Based on the First "season´s" winrate and matches played they will be split into leagues ( or get the ICCup system )
They can make a match on the website and have to fill in the score afterwards, might even using GGTracker like Replay analysis.
3 Monthly ladder system and get casters to make tournaments.
Boom there you go, good looking BW, with social interaction to ladder like 2005, possibility of rematches etc. etc.
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Sc2s decline has almost nothing to do with the communities preference for personalities, it's because the game is designed so awfully and people are losing a lot of faith in blizzard to fix it.
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Good OP, makes me a little sad that the biggest problem with SC2 lies so deep (in design) so apart from overhauling the game it's nigh impossible to fix.
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On September 21 2013 19:39 plgElwood wrote:
BROODWAR WAS SO MUCHBETTER OMFG YOU CASUAL NOOBS BW BW BW COLOSSI SO BROKEN.
There are custom maps in SC2 with BW maps and units also AI and some control (toggle on of: CG limit, no smartcast, Automining)
Go ahead, take 30 minutes to design a Homepage.
Write down the terms of competition (maps played, gamespeed options etc)
Players can register with the page and find opponents by scrolling profiles or using chat.
Based on the First "season´s" winrate and matches played they will be split into leagues ( or get the ICCup system )
They can make a match on the website and have to fill in the score afterwards, might even using GGTracker like Replay analysis.
3 Monthly ladder system and get casters to make tournaments.
Boom there you go, good looking BW, with social interaction to ladder like 2005, possibility of rematches etc. etc.
Expecting fans to essentially do a remake of the game that is polished and well developed enough to compete with the original game, which also happens to be fiercely protected and heavily funded by a gargant in the gaming industry, is perhaps somewhat unrealistic. I also have my doubts as to whether Blizzard would ever allow a tournament under this BW remake to ever take place, they are pretty stingy when it comes to their IP.
What it comes down to is basically where the level of ambition is. Is Blizzard trying to create a worthy successor to BW, or are they content with just being the main competitive RTS on the market? As it stands, SC2 has certainly achieved the latter, but has a long way to go to reach the former. Also, being the best RTS out there right now really isn't that much of an accolade any more, the genre has plummeted in terms on popularity, being mechanically challenging and usually unforgiving, an RTS will almost never be able to draw people like simpler games(see the rise of LoL, farmville, Sims, etc).
Blizzard has stated many times that they are very hesitant to change core gameplay, something I find discouraging. If the ambition is to recreate the magic of BW, only better and prettier, and core gameplay simply is not up to snuff, then core gameplay should be changed. If the ambition is simply to be good enough, then SC2 certainly is good enough. It's just that I, and quite a few others judging by SC boards everywhere, expected more. We expected a bigger, badder, better BW, a super intergalactic cosmo-pizza to replace our superb, if somewhat aged Calzone, that has served us so well for many years. Instead, we got a frozen microwave pepperoni, which while filling and not bad by any means, still cannot help but leave a stale aftertaste.
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On September 21 2013 19:41 McRatyn wrote:
Good OP, makes me a little sad that the biggest problem with SC2 lies so deep (in design) so apart from overhauling the game it's nigh impossible to fix.
The thing is that it should be a relatively easy fix to implement though, because most things can be done with a "toggle" and "dynamic unit mevement" had already been done in a mod or two. Some minor stat adjustments to adress the new balance and you are done.
- MULE - OFF
- Warp-Gate - OFF
- Inject Larva - OFF
- Reactor - OFF
- smartcast - OFF
...
So the problem isnt really doing it, but rather convincing the "people at the helm" that this will improve the game. Sadly that is something where people are giving up on. People have given up already and are talking themselves into being happy about a second rate game design with lots of flashy explosions ... just like those movie sequels which are "better" because of a bigger special effects budget.
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Having never played BW i have no desire to play BW 2.0, i just want to play a slightly better sc2. The fact is they cant make these drastic changes to the mechanics of the game at this point they can only improve on what they have. Some people worked hard to go from bronze league to grandmaster in sc2 (me included) and if the game changed drastically like people seem to be suggesting i would quit in a heartbeat as i have no desire to re-learn the mechanics of a game i worked hard to be decent at, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.
People need to start accepting that SC2 is the way it is and the only the game will be "fixed" is through balance patches and new units, and if you want to play BW you still can no one is stopping you.
I will say though that blizzard is clearly not doing enough to balance HoTS, rolling out 1 balance patch every 3 months simply is not doing enough, the state of tvz is simply a joke at this point both races only have 1 way to play and its got stale very fast.
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The answer: tinker with and alter movement speeds and shooting speeds (not necessarily by the same amount)
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On September 21 2013 20:34 MattD wrote:
The fact is they cant make these drastic changes to the mechanics of the game at this point they can only improve on what they have.
Actually, they can. It just takes a lot of balls and even more hard work.
If they can remove the AH from D3 then they can make changes to core SC2 mechanics. It's just a matter of weighing cost vs benefit, i.e is the fallout worth it.
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On September 21 2013 18:46 Boonbag wrote:
aren't we adressing well written posts like these to blizzard since sc2 beta ?
did they ever change anything ?
just wait for the next generation of rts
some studio will come up with something i'm pretty sure
This is pretty much what Im hoping for as well. I hope the entire scene doesn't have time to die in the meantime though.
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On September 21 2013 20:34 MattD wrote:
Having never played BW i have no desire to play BW 2.0, i just want to play a slightly better sc2. The fact is they cant make these drastic changes to the mechanics of the game at this point they can only improve on what they have. Some people worked hard to go from bronze league to grandmaster in sc2 (me included) and if the game changed drastically like people seem to be suggesting i would quit in a heartbeat as i have no desire to re-learn the mechanics of a game i worked hard to be decent at, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.
People need to start accepting that SC2 is the way it is and the only the game will be "fixed" is through balance patches and new units, and if you want to play BW you still can no one is stopping you.
I will say though that blizzard is clearly not doing enough to balance HoTS, rolling out 1 balance patch every 3 months simply is not doing enough, the state of tvz is simply a joke at this point both races only have 1 way to play and its got stale very fast.
I don't really agree with your argument... are you saying that your gaming skills will not transfer over to new games (including a re-made SC2)? If you really worked your way up to GM skill level then you've probably come to understand at least some of the fundamental aspects of strategy gaming and/or expertise learning (the skill of knowing how to learn something well) to a decent degree. So when compared with other gamers I don't think it's accurate to say that you would probably fall off if a game changed drastically.
Why do you think so many of the top sc2 players game from other strategy games like BW and WC3? I think it has a lot to do with them already possessing many of the skills and the mindset to improve efficiently at games from the get-go.
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Australia18228 Posts
Riot/LoL really showed how superior their approach is, this year. I hope Blizzard at least learns something from it.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 20:47 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 20:34 MattD wrote:
The fact is they cant make these drastic changes to the mechanics of the game at this point they can only improve on what they have. Actually, they can. It just takes a lot of balls and even more hard work. If they can remove the AH from D3 then they can make changes to core SC2 mechanics. It's just a matter of weighing cost vs benefit, i.e is the fallout worth it.
It does not worth it, believe it or not. good 90% does not care about competitive play, so changing core SC2 mechanics won't even really affect 'em, except it may make it harder for 'em to play. And yes, i like BW and i would hate to have SC:BW HD remix, that eats 10x more resources.
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On September 21 2013 18:52 Patate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 18:46 RaZorwire wrote:On September 21 2013 18:37 Patate wrote:PLEASE GO WATCH SOME BROOD WAR BEFORE DEFENDING STARCRAFT 2, OTHERWISE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!! I think you should go watch some Starcraft 2 before critisizing it since you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I've watched SC2 from its release up to a few months before HoTS. Then after the expansion was out, I watched a few events only to realize it's the same design.. just with different units. Kind of insulting that someone like you tells me such things.
It's kind of insulting that you write a post about Starcraft 2 filled with hyperbole to the point of factual incorrectness, and then expect anyone to take you seriously.
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i think we all agree by now that region lock wouldve been the right step.
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On September 21 2013 21:15 teddyoojo wrote:
i think we all agree by now that region lock wouldve been the right step.
not all
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KeSPA are laughing their asses off right now.
Edit: About what OP said; how would a proleague format tournament organized by Blizzard fare? With the same kind of restrictions LCS has? I think that would create that exclusive feel, "ace" players and teams battling it out. Tournaments in this format would also (I guess?) generate a whole lot more potential sponsorship revenue, which would obviously increase a dramatic prize-pool at the end of a season.
This proleague format, to me atleast, would feel more like watching a season of Icehockey or football.
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On September 21 2013 21:15 teddyoojo wrote:
i think we all agree by now that region lock wouldve been the right step.
i don't think so at all. that would've been a terrible idea in so many ways, and i know i'm not the only one that feels like this.
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The problem with Starcraft is that even though it's the best game in the whole god-damn world, with incredible viewership numbers (there's over a million active Starcraft 2 viewers and numbers are still peaking over 100,000 concurrent), with almost every tournament producing some of the best games we've ever seen and a growing stable of brilliant players and great casters...people are still complaining and saying "Starcraft is dying".
Starcraft 2 is in pretty great shape. It's no longer growing incredibly fast, but there's more people watching than there was a year ago*. That's hardly dying is it?
* There are I believe less people watching players streaming, but to be honest, no matter how popular Starcraft gets, practice streams should in theory decline over time if other broadcasts are fulfilling people's need for the game.
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On September 21 2013 19:39 plgElwood wrote:
BROODWAR WAS SO MUCHBETTER OMFG YOU CASUAL NOOBS BW BW BW COLOSSI SO BROKEN.
There are custom maps in SC2 with BW maps and units also AI and some control (toggle on of: CG limit, no smartcast, Automining)
Go ahead, take 30 minutes to design a Homepage.
Write down the terms of competition (maps played, gamespeed options etc)
Players can register with the page and find opponents by scrolling profiles or using chat.
Based on the First "season´s" winrate and matches played they will be split into leagues ( or get the ICCup system )
They can make a match on the website and have to fill in the score afterwards, might even using GGTracker like Replay analysis.
3 Monthly ladder system and get casters to make tournaments.
Boom there you go, good looking BW, with social interaction to ladder like 2005, possibility of rematches etc. etc.
What about the pathing?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 21:54 Ingsoc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 19:39 plgElwood wrote:
BROODWAR WAS SO MUCHBETTER OMFG YOU CASUAL NOOBS BW BW BW COLOSSI SO BROKEN.
There are custom maps in SC2 with BW maps and units also AI and some control (toggle on of: CG limit, no smartcast, Automining)
Go ahead, take 30 minutes to design a Homepage.
Write down the terms of competition (maps played, gamespeed options etc)
Players can register with the page and find opponents by scrolling profiles or using chat.
Based on the First "season´s" winrate and matches played they will be split into leagues ( or get the ICCup system )
They can make a match on the website and have to fill in the score afterwards, might even using GGTracker like Replay analysis.
3 Monthly ladder system and get casters to make tournaments.
Boom there you go, good looking BW, with social interaction to ladder like 2005, possibility of rematches etc. etc.
What about the pathing?
MavericK tried his best to emulate SC:BW's pthing in that mod.
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EPT
