|
On September 16 2013 00:03 SCguineapig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 23:51 Big J wrote:
Protoss has always been weird. They would have to scratch the whole religous stuff to make them somehow credible as an high-tech race, or vis-verca.
Not to mention... their only goal is to kill the zerg. That's the whole reason for Protoss existence, right...? scratching away the religious stuff? you mean the khala? lol the khala is a major part of the protoss lore. the khala is the reason why the xel naga were intersted in the protoss to begin with, it was the dissapearance of the khala that let to the aeon of strife, it was the khala that caused the exilment of the dark templars from aiur.
But what excactly is the khala? we know what it does for the protoss (links, psi power and castes) but i cannot remember anything about the actual religion, where it comes from or anything, except that its sort of there and that the protoss has it. So i guess its more like a genetical thing and not really a religion? just vague and wierd
|
Protoss were doing battle with the Zerg (and losing) before the events of the first game. The only reason Aiur was left intact for so long is that the Zerg couldn't find it. Also this:
On September 15 2013 23:35 Master of DalK wrote:
Protoss empire = Conclave which were full of assholes.
|
to address your points as far as i understand them:
the protoss split into two factions. those who were connected by the link to the khala and those who were not. these so called "trillions of protoss unaccounted for" you speak of don't exist. it was either the dark templar (situated mostly on shakuras) or the rest of the protoss who were connected via psionic mindlink, and thus, completely aware of what was happening on aiur. I guess I kind of assumed (maybe wrongly) that the protoss recalled most of their forces to fight the zerg, and the rest of the protoss are stragglers. I think the intention of the story is to portray them as the group with the least quantity of troops, but highest quality.
I guess I'm trying to say there aren't as many protoss as you'd like to think, and there's no real reason to assume there are a lot of protoss.
|
To me protoss was all about great achievements with a bitter aftertaste; terran was all about ambition and betrayal, and the zerg was all about a semi-triumphant road to domination.
Then sc2 came out..
I don't really care about plotholes. I do mind that themes (that seem to be there) are thrown away, it makes the story less interesting.
edit: now i think about it, this doesn't really have anything to do with lore, sorry
|
On September 15 2013 23:58 Maxd11 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 23:45 Yonnua wrote:On September 15 2013 23:39 sc2holar wrote:On September 15 2013 23:35 Master of DalK wrote:
Protoss empire = Conclave which were full of assholes. So those hundreds of worlds died out because they are full of assholes? i mean dont you find it kinda wierd that those trillions (?) off Toss just dissapear from the story? They haven't disappeared; what are you talking about? We just haven't seen many interactions with the protoss in the last 2 games. We HAVE seen Selendis and her fleet. We HAVE seen a protoss colonisation of Kaldir and them attempting to contact nearby protoss. We've also heard about Haven being "on the edge of protoss space" and being attacked by nearby protoss planets. There have been plenty of references to it, you just haven't been paying enough attention. Well every last protoss in existence died in the last prophecy mission. Sure there were plenty of protoss there (enough to make my computer crash) but there weren't enough to have been from "100s of worlds". Perhaps the hundreds of worlds that the protoss controlled weren't populated and they just had colonies there or something. I'd like to see a complete list of the things that the protoss religion allows/disallows. It seems like their religion is always the excuse when we wonder why they didn't just do this or that but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to the rules.
Well the last Prophecy mission was like 100 years after Wings of Liberty, if you paid attention to the first bit of the mission, they say how they are last sentient beings in the universe alive that aren't Hybrid or Zerg. All of the Terrans have been consumed, and that all of the other Protoss have died.
|
On September 15 2013 23:28 sc2holar wrote:
1. Where were those other protoss guys from those hundreds of worlds during the war? did noone on Aiur send out a distress call to the rest of the Empire?
2. After the "destruction" of Aiur, the Protoss "empire" is never mentioned again and those hundreds of worlds inhabitated by protoss seem to go up in smoke along with Aiurs invasion. How did that happen? In fact, i dont think any of the planets have ever even been mentioned except for Shakuras? There are like a hundred named human inhabited worlds in the Lore. Only Two Protoss Worlds.
3. There should be like trillions of Protoss in the galaxy who never even saw Aiur and probably took its invasion relativley fine. Where are they in the Story/Game?
Share your opinions
Lets be fair here. If the protoss were not depicted in a pretty vague way in general there would be no chance for zergs and terrans to stand up to them militarily, I mean... imagine zealots with lasers..
Protoss can create black holes, bend time and teleport stuff... with that level of tech it would not be far fetched to imagine them also being able to run their own psi disruptor, lure every zerg into some distant star system. make a black hole and have the star go supernova wiping out pretty much every zerg from the universe with very little effort, or sending arbiters that can recall an entire fleet to a terran homeworld, incinerate it and instantly recall back before reinforcements arrive.
But to be more specific to what you point out.
1. While there seems to be some sort of "warp" in the starcraft universe, there might not be FTL communication or a very limited form of it, in one of the starcraft novels a fleet is shown to have not received information about aiur getting attacked.
or they were simply taken by surprise by kerrigan going for the throat
2. Probably because protoss society seems very similar across the board, its much easier to depict a far west style shithole of a planet in contrast of a heavily populated and industrialized world than a protoss world where the only real differences might simply be population, their society seems pretty inflexible and orderly.
This is where shakuras comes in, a world populated by outcasts with xel naga temples makes for a much better setting than "oh this protoss world has lava or is more humid than aiur therefore its TOTALLY different..."
3. Considering how zealous the protoss are I would hardly say they would take the destruction of their homeworld "fine". As far as population goes the protoss do seem like the "quality over quantity" type of race so they might not be that many of them spread out across the sector.
|
Having hundreds of planets doesn't mean they all had a military. Up until recently all of their weapons were re-purposed technologies. They even had that little story on battlenet about the Mothership and how they were basically science vessels. It seemed like the Protoss were a relatively peaceful race with a very powerful, but limited, fleet.
|
On September 15 2013 23:59 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 23:51 Big J wrote:
Protoss has always been weird. They would have to scratch the whole religous stuff to make them somehow credible as an high-tech race, or vis-verca.
Good point, and i would like to point out the difference in appearance between SC1 and SC2. In SC1 zealots look like enigmatic, tall aliens in high tech metal armor. In SC2 they look like Draenei with gas masks. they went far overboard with the religious look in SC2 if you ask me. not to mention the spike-dreadlocks
Are there even protoss scientists in the lore? My understanding was that they were 'uplifted' with superior tech by the Xel'Naga, but it's not entirely consistent I guess.
|
On September 16 2013 01:31 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 23:59 sc2holar wrote:On September 15 2013 23:51 Big J wrote:
Protoss has always been weird. They would have to scratch the whole religous stuff to make them somehow credible as an high-tech race, or vis-verca.
Good point, and i would like to point out the difference in appearance between SC1 and SC2. In SC1 zealots look like enigmatic, tall aliens in high tech metal armor. In SC2 they look like Draenei with gas masks. they went far overboard with the religious look in SC2 if you ask me. not to mention the spike-dreadlocks Are there even protoss scientists in the lore? My understanding was that they were 'uplifted' with superior tech by the Xel'Naga, but it's not entirely consistent I guess.
The Khalai caste includes scientists.
|
DT has nothing to do with HT, different unit, different religion.
In BW in fact, 2 DT become a dark archon, not a "light" archon.
That is the biggest fail from Blizzard.
Second biggest fail is the Viper and the Third is the Mule.
Blizzard quality is at 4 on 10 atm.
|
I played the first starcraft recently and it just confirmed for me at least, that they had things down much better story wise back then. Now they handle it poorly, its all corny and gimmicky as fuck, they screwed up the awesome zerg lore with hots, so I am not surprised that much of the protoss lore is filled with questions.
|
On September 16 2013 02:02 GodZo wrote:
DT has nothing to do with HT, different unit, different religion.
In BW in fact, 2 DT become a dark archon, not a "light" archon.
That is the biggest fail from Blizzard.
Second biggest fail is the Viper and the Third is the Mule.
Blizzard quality is at 4 on 10 atm.
Why no, Mules are the best units for making comebacks!
|
On September 16 2013 00:34 Master of DalK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2013 23:58 Maxd11 wrote:On September 15 2013 23:45 Yonnua wrote:On September 15 2013 23:39 sc2holar wrote:On September 15 2013 23:35 Master of DalK wrote:
Protoss empire = Conclave which were full of assholes. So those hundreds of worlds died out because they are full of assholes? i mean dont you find it kinda wierd that those trillions (?) off Toss just dissapear from the story? They haven't disappeared; what are you talking about? We just haven't seen many interactions with the protoss in the last 2 games. We HAVE seen Selendis and her fleet. We HAVE seen a protoss colonisation of Kaldir and them attempting to contact nearby protoss. We've also heard about Haven being "on the edge of protoss space" and being attacked by nearby protoss planets. There have been plenty of references to it, you just haven't been paying enough attention. Well every last protoss in existence died in the last prophecy mission. Sure there were plenty of protoss there (enough to make my computer crash) but there weren't enough to have been from "100s of worlds". Perhaps the hundreds of worlds that the protoss controlled weren't populated and they just had colonies there or something. I'd like to see a complete list of the things that the protoss religion allows/disallows. It seems like their religion is always the excuse when we wonder why they didn't just do this or that but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to the rules. Well the last Prophecy mission was like 100 years after Wings of Liberty, if you paid attention to the first bit of the mission, they say how they are last sentient beings in the universe alive that aren't Hybrid or Zerg. All of the Terrans have been consumed, and that all of the other Protoss have died.
Nope. I didn't remember that. Thanks for clarifying!
|
On September 16 2013 02:02 GodZo wrote:
DT has nothing to do with HT, different unit, different religion.
In BW in fact, 2 DT become a dark archon, not a "light" archon.
That is the biggest fail from Blizzard.
Second biggest fail is the Viper and the Third is the Mule.
Blizzard quality is at 4 on 10 atm.
Between the 4 years of BW and WoL, the DT's and HT's realized they needed to work together so they worked on combining their energies without losing their sanity in Archon form. Tassadar was the first to realize this, which resulted in him sacrificing himself for the sake of the entire race while in that Carrier at the end of Vanilla (which I forget the name of ._.)
The Viper is a flying defiler with a long tongue, and without the MULE Terrans would have difficulty to stay on par with Zerg.
|
If you're gonna talk about story-related materials, please read the SC1 Manual if you haven't already (protoss bg on p. 70). 
|
On September 15 2013 23:28 sc2holar wrote:
Personally, i love protoss, both game design-wise (hard to believe right?) and aesteticly, but i have always thought that they seriously lack an identity and general stuff
.....
Share your opinions
well the first 2 segments of SC2 centred around Zerg and Terran. So Protoss feels a bit distant in terms of lore.
I really liked the whole Light and Dark sides of Protoss and the Light Protoss not trusting the Dark Protoss. The Dark Templar became a "newly accepted" Protoss.
The Stalker, a unit of Dark Protoss origin, continues this story of integration between light and dark. It replaces the Dragoon.
The integration between Light and Dark is a super cool theme and impacts on individual unit abilities and their appearance.
There are lots of fiction books about the SC universe that go into great detail about the Protoss. I recommend checking out these works before passing the kinds of judgements you have in this post.
Over all, Blizzard has done a nice job with the Protoss in SC1 and Brood War. I look for Blizzard to put together a nice story about the Protoss in segment 3 of the SC2 trilogy.
Each segment allows you to explore each race in depth.
However, I do not want this criticism of your post to be a "slam" or a "you are an idiot for having this opinion."
You have taken the time to think carefully about the Protoss and their place in the Universe. And, that is commendable.
The stories in SC1, Brood War, WoL, HotS are chock full of plot holes and silly "turn on a dime" plot twists with characters of improbably ridiculous power. But, I endure these issues because the game behind the story is so great.
The story is good enough for me... although clearly it can not be taken seriously the way you'd analyze a serious 2 hour movie.
Over all,
nice post.
On September 16 2013 02:51 wo1fwood wrote:If you're gonna talk about story-related materials, please read the SC1 Manual if you haven't already (protoss bg on p. 70).
thanks
|
Well there's still the race tension between the dark and high templar. There's still contention over how Zerg and Terran should be controlled. There's still a lot psionic background and Aiur history they can dig into. They also have an opportunity to shed some real insight into the hybrids because Protoss have the most experience with the Xel Naga and are most active with their investigation.
|
I think we are going to see a Night Elf type of story from Reign of Chaos, which is by now completely unoriginal.
Amon = Archimonde
Hybrid + Zerg = Burning Legion and Undead
Overmind = Lich King
Protoss units scattered = new units that you will recruit such as druids
Kerrigan + Jimmy = Jaina and Thrall
Light vs. Dark Templars = similar to Night Elf vs. Naga (deep prejudice and pride issues)
I hope we see a completely different story, but this is Blizzard, so I doubt it......
|
On September 16 2013 03:43 hansonslee wrote:
Light vs. Dark Templars = similar to Night Elf vs. Naga (deep prejudice and pride issues)
Wouldn't it be Blood and Night elves instead of Naga?
|
On September 16 2013 03:52 Master of DalK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 03:43 hansonslee wrote:
Light vs. Dark Templars = similar to Night Elf vs. Naga (deep prejudice and pride issues) Wouldn't it be Blood and Night elves instead of Naga?
Naga were once night elves but were banished after the Great Sundering.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
