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On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
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Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving.
Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game.
But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2.
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On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
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Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2.
Come on, lets not limit it to BW fans. Everyone loves a band wagon. They all all the arguments saved up from previous threads and this is the time to break them out.
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Bisu D:
Fare well my Protoss Idol~
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On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
Clap
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Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2.
cmon, we see retirement annoucements daily on this forum, something is clearly fucked up with the game.
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On September 10 2013 01:43 Jawra wrote:
Old Protoss and Terran pros coming over to Starcraft II, they quickly start feeling that something is wrong with for example the TvP and PvP matchups.
Something feels wrong, might it be that in TvP the game is so passive "macro" on 3-bases until the 200/200 blob is gathered with such huge emphazis placed on the Colossus-hugging and thereby the Stalker being so weak to compensate? Yup. The midgame is so fkin passive and the only way for say the Protoss to show their skill is by a couple of seconds during the deciding engagement. There are no Dragoons and Reavers causing that active midgame, there are no Carrierswitches, there is just a Protoss blob, and a Terran blob as response.
PvP ofc does blow because of if you lose 3 Stalkers midgame..you're dead by virtue of Warptech reinforcement practically inside your base. Comeback-potential? Nono...shhh..only dreams now
PvZ sucks too. Protoss in general just got fucked over... even more than Zerg. The only race that isn't horribly designed, in my opinion, is Terran, but they're just a generic RTS force without the things that make them cool in Brood War, or anything cool in general. But at least they don't have massive design flaws, they're just bland and boring.
The ways you can play Protoss in Brood War are numerous, and interesting. In SC2 there are much fewer viable styles, and they're all fucking boring. There is no corsair reaver with disruption web. No aggressive expanding with a ground army while corsairs fly around harassing everything. No attacking and defending at the same time, like in Wing Chun. You just go for a dumb all in or get a deathball, because that's all Protoss is good for in SC2.
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On September 10 2013 02:15 ( bush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
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Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2. cmon, we see retirement annoucements daily on this forum, something is clearly fucked up with the game.
Conformation bias is the best form of evidence on the internet. I see a thing and assume that is proves the point I want it to confirm, while disregarding all other reasons and evidence.
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The amounts of awesomeness that Bisu (or the other bonjwas) delivered in BW can never be achieved in SC2.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:18 midou wrote:
The amounts of awesomeness that Bisu (or the other bonjwas) delivered in BW can never be achieved in SC2.
Bisu was not bonjwa.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 10 2013 02:17 vOdToasT wrote:
The ways you can play Protoss in Brood War are numerous, and interesting. In SC2 there are much fewer viable styles, and they're all fucking boring.
As someone, who never played Protoss in BW (except some random speedlot all-ins in PvPs because of boredom) care to explain?
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On September 10 2013 02:15 ( bush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
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Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2. cmon, we see retirement annoucements daily on this forum, something is clearly fucked up with the game.
People are in denial but it's pretty obvious sc2 has some big issues.
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On September 10 2013 02:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
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Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2. Come on, lets not limit it to BW fans. Everyone loves a band wagon. They all all the arguments saved up from previous threads and this is the time to break them out.
User was warned for this post
User was warned for this post
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Let's hope every pro quits because downsizing is good and might induce change!
You hear me David Obama?! I want change!!!
jk 
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On September 10 2013 02:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:02 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 10 2013 01:56 Ciryandor wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 10 2013 01:23 _Animus_ wrote:On September 10 2013 00:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 10 2013 00:40 _Animus_ wrote:On September 09 2013 23:13 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2013 23:10 Xiphos wrote:On September 09 2013 22:40 Plansix wrote:
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No, clearly a protoss legend retiring has to be connect to something we can blame Blizzard for. It always has to be. I stubbed my toe last week and I am pretty sure it was because I was thinking about how to save SC2 from dying, so that has to be Blizzard's fault too. It is completely Blizzard's fault for creating the race to differentiate from the original style that's for sure. Everybody knows that P and T's play style have been inverted in SC2 so naturally speaking people won't enjoy it as much. Clearly its also Blizzard's fault there is mandatory military service in South Korea and that all the progamers live in gaming houses where it is super hard to have a girlfriend. Also, any injuries or family problems we might not know about because, you know, privacy, those are Blizzard's fault as well. Im amazed how ignorant people like this keep on coming and post so bullshit. on topic: Ok ok, 2 legendary players retiring doesnt mean nothing. LOL really? what about the others? How about SC2 is not enjoyed by the public? Maybe its not blizzard fault again, i guess by your logic those people just doesnt have taste for the good RTS games and doesnt understand true esports. By the way do you know which country made the esports - Korea hahahaha Do you know sc2 popularity is much below amateur BW in Korea right now? One might say, Koreans are used to the more complicated games, yes? No. League of legends surpassed greatly SC2 by popularity, and if you dont know this game is very simple unlike sc2. So then where is the problem? Anybody have thinked about sc2 is just not entertaining or just bad? That the way SC2 is continuing to be strong outside of Korea are only the money that big companies throw in, about huge ass tournaments and such? Now you have reasons to think and i guess not to write such bullshit next time. I guess you can call common sense BS, if that does not reflect your idea of SC2 sucking. Yes, they were legendary players in Brood War, and have a large following. But them retiring citing lack of passion for SC2 only means that they did not like SC2, and it is understandable, since they were forced to play it against their own like. SC2 is not enjoyed by public? Well, name me a high mechanical skill demanding 1v1 game that is enjoyed by public. Brood War? Miss, most of it's fans almost never touched 1v1. Koreans are not used to more complicate games. THey are used to free-to-play games and there is nothing bad in that. Comparing LoL to SC2... is plain wrong and everyone knows reasons for it. Sc2 is entertaining for me, except for PvT (yes, only 1 match up out of 6). Also, SC2 is not strong outside of Korea on the back of money the big companies throw in, since big companies are not that stupid to throw money to not get exposure. They surely get it, if they keep doing it. Havent you read my last post? To name you high mechanical skill demanding 1v1 game that is ejnoyed by the public, i already did it, but let me try again, amateur SC BW is way more popular than SC2 in Korea right now, ok? When talking about esports popularity in korea i dont see the wrong in comparing all of them to see the difference, for example when official BW was around it was doing great. And for throwing money by the big companies. I have never said they dont get it back, did i? Reason is that everyone wants to play in big tournaments for big money and nothing more. Difference in Korea was the thrilling passion about the game, which has gone with the switch and we see the aftermath. Aside from the topic I see this as another example of the higher morale of the asian nations. Brave enough to not do something that you dont want, because they can easily continue with their sure job and just stick there as they are getting paid right? Bows to all and mostly to Jangbi! I have no clue how BW and SC2 relate in popularity, since it is impossible to get a statistic of active BW players. Also, you will not believe, but aside from Passion, SC: BW in Korea was supported by a pretty good amount of money, because interest->sponsors->money->moar interest. Also, if Bisu and Jangbi were brave enough, they would retire year ago. They were brave enough to actually try and enjoy (or they had a nice salary, and got a cut on it this year, i won't ever know) SC2, and i give 'em props for that. Fish server has 24k+ active players at any one time if my recent watching of snipealot is correct; probably means there's 50k+ unique users/day. Still quite a few players, how much more would fan counts be? As for sponsorship support, see SSL 8; Mike Morhaime basically had to tell Blizzard Korea to not charge Sonic the broadcast license for BW even if the tournament had over 5k USD in total prize pool. Do you see Valve asking for a license fee for tournies over 5k, and shutting them down if they didn't pay up? Same thing with Riot. 24+k active players? Darn, that's indeed pretty darn popular. Also, since only tournament i watched in this Steam promotion of a game was TI3, i have no clue about what Valve would do. Same with Riot. Fair points, good to know though. Events charge to view Dota 2 events through client and get sweet drops from watching. Valve takes a cut of each sale, so they are charging to watch, even if they don't care about the twitch revenue(you can get drops by watching on Twitch too, as long as you have a ticket). Riot doesn't really have anything like that, but I don't know if anyone is running events but them. The point you're making is kind of non-sequitur here. You're not paying for access to the content, you're paying for additional content that would otherwise not be available to you (e.g. your local machine is rendering all of the gfx at your screens native resolution, so theoretically if you have a 4k screen, you're paying X dollars for UHD content, +anything else). In these instances Valve isn't restricting the viewership of these events in any way, whereas Blizzard has an embargo over non-licensed broadcasts (e.g. entry-level access).
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On September 10 2013 02:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
Clap
Clap
Clap
Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2. Come on, lets not limit it to BW fans. Everyone loves a band wagon. They all all the arguments saved up from previous threads and this is the time to break them out.
Whether you like it or not, immense players giving up on a salary and retiring while they're either in tip-top shape (Jangbi is an incredible example) or still in somewhat of a competitive stance (Bisu works) is more evidence proving the so-called 'haters' point.
This really has nothing to do with BW.
And lowl at the football comparison, that I won't even bother commenting.
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Poland3999 Posts
Oh wow, time for SRT to get 300% more handsome ^_^.
Kim Taek Yong hwaiting~!
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Sad to see an eSports legend go, but not surprised, judging from his play and results, Bisu just didn't have what it took to succeed at sc2, be that the difference between the mechanics of the game and protoss, or the passion/love to play all day and put in all the hours. It clearly wasn't his game. Hopefully he gives it another go after military service.
Blaming it on sc2 is silly though imo
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; -; I really was hoping Bisu would get back to BW form, and we could have some epic Flash/JD/Bisu games going on  .
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On September 10 2013 02:30 WoodenSky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:11 Plansix wrote:On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
Clap
Clap
Clap
Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2. Come on, lets not limit it to BW fans. Everyone loves a band wagon. They all all the arguments saved up from previous threads and this is the time to break them out. Whether you like it or not, immense players giving up on a salary and retiring while they're either in tip-top shape (Jangbi is an incredible example) or still in somewhat of a competitive stance (Bisu works) is more evidence proving the so-called 'haters' point.
No, thats not evidence for anything at all. It's just normal and happens in every sport or job.
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On September 10 2013 02:28 wo1fwood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:05 Plansix wrote:On September 10 2013 02:02 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 10 2013 01:56 Ciryandor wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 10 2013 01:23 _Animus_ wrote:On September 10 2013 00:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 10 2013 00:40 _Animus_ wrote:On September 09 2013 23:13 Plansix wrote:On September 09 2013 23:10 Xiphos wrote:
[quote]
It is completely Blizzard's fault for creating the race to differentiate from the original style that's for sure. Everybody knows that P and T's play style have been inverted in SC2 so naturally speaking people won't enjoy it as much. Clearly its also Blizzard's fault there is mandatory military service in South Korea and that all the progamers live in gaming houses where it is super hard to have a girlfriend. Also, any injuries or family problems we might not know about because, you know, privacy, those are Blizzard's fault as well. Im amazed how ignorant people like this keep on coming and post so bullshit. on topic: Ok ok, 2 legendary players retiring doesnt mean nothing. LOL really? what about the others? How about SC2 is not enjoyed by the public? Maybe its not blizzard fault again, i guess by your logic those people just doesnt have taste for the good RTS games and doesnt understand true esports. By the way do you know which country made the esports - Korea hahahaha Do you know sc2 popularity is much below amateur BW in Korea right now? One might say, Koreans are used to the more complicated games, yes? No. League of legends surpassed greatly SC2 by popularity, and if you dont know this game is very simple unlike sc2. So then where is the problem? Anybody have thinked about sc2 is just not entertaining or just bad? That the way SC2 is continuing to be strong outside of Korea are only the money that big companies throw in, about huge ass tournaments and such? Now you have reasons to think and i guess not to write such bullshit next time. I guess you can call common sense BS, if that does not reflect your idea of SC2 sucking. Yes, they were legendary players in Brood War, and have a large following. But them retiring citing lack of passion for SC2 only means that they did not like SC2, and it is understandable, since they were forced to play it against their own like. SC2 is not enjoyed by public? Well, name me a high mechanical skill demanding 1v1 game that is enjoyed by public. Brood War? Miss, most of it's fans almost never touched 1v1. Koreans are not used to more complicate games. THey are used to free-to-play games and there is nothing bad in that. Comparing LoL to SC2... is plain wrong and everyone knows reasons for it. Sc2 is entertaining for me, except for PvT (yes, only 1 match up out of 6). Also, SC2 is not strong outside of Korea on the back of money the big companies throw in, since big companies are not that stupid to throw money to not get exposure. They surely get it, if they keep doing it. Havent you read my last post? To name you high mechanical skill demanding 1v1 game that is ejnoyed by the public, i already did it, but let me try again, amateur SC BW is way more popular than SC2 in Korea right now, ok? When talking about esports popularity in korea i dont see the wrong in comparing all of them to see the difference, for example when official BW was around it was doing great. And for throwing money by the big companies. I have never said they dont get it back, did i? Reason is that everyone wants to play in big tournaments for big money and nothing more. Difference in Korea was the thrilling passion about the game, which has gone with the switch and we see the aftermath. Aside from the topic I see this as another example of the higher morale of the asian nations. Brave enough to not do something that you dont want, because they can easily continue with their sure job and just stick there as they are getting paid right? Bows to all and mostly to Jangbi! I have no clue how BW and SC2 relate in popularity, since it is impossible to get a statistic of active BW players. Also, you will not believe, but aside from Passion, SC: BW in Korea was supported by a pretty good amount of money, because interest->sponsors->money->moar interest. Also, if Bisu and Jangbi were brave enough, they would retire year ago. They were brave enough to actually try and enjoy (or they had a nice salary, and got a cut on it this year, i won't ever know) SC2, and i give 'em props for that. Fish server has 24k+ active players at any one time if my recent watching of snipealot is correct; probably means there's 50k+ unique users/day. Still quite a few players, how much more would fan counts be? As for sponsorship support, see SSL 8; Mike Morhaime basically had to tell Blizzard Korea to not charge Sonic the broadcast license for BW even if the tournament had over 5k USD in total prize pool. Do you see Valve asking for a license fee for tournies over 5k, and shutting them down if they didn't pay up? Same thing with Riot. 24+k active players? Darn, that's indeed pretty darn popular. Also, since only tournament i watched in this Steam promotion of a game was TI3, i have no clue about what Valve would do. Same with Riot. Fair points, good to know though. Events charge to view Dota 2 events through client and get sweet drops from watching. Valve takes a cut of each sale, so they are charging to watch, even if they don't care about the twitch revenue(you can get drops by watching on Twitch too, as long as you have a ticket). Riot doesn't really have anything like that, but I don't know if anyone is running events but them. The point you're making is kind of non-sequitur here. You're not paying for access to the content, you're paying for additional content that would otherwise not be available to you (e.g. your local machine is rendering all of the gfx at your screens native resolution, so theoretically if you have a 4k screen, you're paying X dollars for UHD content, +anything else). In these instances Valve isn't restricting the viewership of these events in any way, whereas Blizzard has an embargo over non-licensed broadcasts (e.g. entry-level access).
So does Valve and Riot, but people don't talk about it. They always have the ability to shut down a broadcast of their game if they don't like what they see(ie, like something horribly offensive that they don't want associated with their game). The only difference is that major Korea TV networks show BW events. As I said before, Valve and Riot would likely look for some money from NBC(who is several magnitudes larger than both of them) was showing their game.
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On September 10 2013 02:36 HerrHorst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 02:30 WoodenSky wrote:On September 10 2013 02:11 Plansix wrote:On September 10 2013 02:09 HerrHorst wrote:On September 10 2013 01:29 WoodenSky wrote:
Clap
Clap
Clap
Am I the only one who sees every one of these retirements as a kick in the nose of SC2's design team?
Thanks for trying Bisu, noone will blame you for leaving. Because someone retiring is clearly an indication for such a claim. When Gerd Müller retired from football literally every german was blaming the game. But I know how this kind of threads works, the broodwar-fans will use every oppurtunity to hate SC2. Come on, lets not limit it to BW fans. Everyone loves a band wagon. They all all the arguments saved up from previous threads and this is the time to break them out. Whether you like it or not, immense players giving up on a salary and retiring while they're either in tip-top shape (Jangbi is an incredible example) or still in somewhat of a competitive stance (Bisu works) is more evidence proving the so-called 'haters' point. No, thats not evidence for anything at all. It's just normal and happens in every sport or job.
Could you please quote the last very competitive (or still relatively young) sportsman you can think of who retired?
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EPT
