On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Losts of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
BW survived because so many people were playing it, and you could pick up the game for free, or very cheap. And you didn't need good internet to play.
IM has so many sponsors nowadays, even without LG there's some big names like Coca-Cola, Nvidia, Asrock. How come they are so dependant on getting LG as a sponsor?
On September 01 2013 03:44 pigmanbear wrote: BW survived because so many people were playing it, and you could pick up the game for free, or very cheap. And you didn't need good internet to play.
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Losts of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
BW survived because so many people were playing it, and you could pick up the game for free, or very cheap. And you didn't need good internet to play.
Yeah, but then BW didn't have much of a foreign scene (WCG once a year, and TSL). This is an important detail. Sc2 does have a vibrant foreign scene, which is a huge difference to BW.
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Lots of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
This is nothing like BW. Rumors are just rumors but if something this cataclysmic were to occur in SC2, the scene is nowhere near as well-funded, well-liked or deeply rooted as the BW scene. You cannot make a well-founded argument for the SC2 surviving using the BW scene as a basis for your theory.
I am so confused why people think this is the "end", i mean, say kespa drops all sc2 and all the players on that list do retire.....
So what? Sc2 started without kespa and i am sure it will do fine if they dont have it? I dunno, i still watched it before kespa came in, probably still will. The players that are retiring on that list really is not that big of a deal imo, hopefully they go play some broodwar again ^_^
the only weird thing is people leaving esf, the IM one could be the easiest rumor ever made by saying kespa can get back LG.
On September 01 2013 03:44 SgtCoDFish wrote: I swear people are actually going out of their way to look for reasons to say SC2 is dying.
It's shrinking (a bit), not dying.
People seem to have forgotten what the scene was like before KeSPA switched.
It's just going back to around that size.
Yup. If KeSPA switch over earlier, we wouldn't have teams like MVP, IM, Startale, etc. Most of these esf players came from the b-team/practice partners of KeSPA's A-team.
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Lots of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
This is nothing like BW. Rumors are just rumors but if something this cataclysmic were to occur in SC2, the scene is nowhere near as well-funded, well-liked or deeply rooted as the BW scene. You cannot make a well-founded argument for the SC2 surviving using the BW scene as a basis for your theory.
Yes, I can. BW didn't have much of a foreign scene. You are ignoring this fact. The SC2 scene has a vibrant foreign community. Dunno why you are neglecting this fact.
On September 01 2013 03:45 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: As fan of foreign sc2 this is meanless for me...
Without at least a halfway "healthy" Korean sc2 scene, there is a pretty big chance "foreign sc2" will follow suit next.
Why people don't remember that when kespa joined sc2 korean pro player pool got double. That's not good or normal for scene. Way too many players for this scene. This is just good. We all knew that someday some teams have to disband...
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Lots of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
This is nothing like BW. Rumors are just rumors but if something this cataclysmic were to occur in SC2, the scene is nowhere near as well-funded, well-liked or deeply rooted as the BW scene. You cannot make a well-founded argument for the SC2 surviving using the BW scene as a basis for your theory.
Yes, I can. BW didn't have much of a foreign scene. You are ignoring this fact. The SC2 scene has a vibrant foreign community. Dunno why you are neglecting this fact.
Half the reason the foreign scene is so big is that you get the best Koreans attending major events, maintaining the highest level of play, along with a few choice foreigners. Nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play. If the Korean scene collapses, these guys stop showing up at major foreign events, ergo the foreign scene becomes dull and dries up as well.
Look at the LA scene if you want to see what a foreign scene with no KR influence looks like. It ain't pretty.
On September 01 2013 03:45 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: As fan of foreign sc2 this is meanless for me...
Without at least a halfway "healthy" Korean sc2 scene, there is a pretty big chance "foreign sc2" will follow suit next.
Are you joking me? It'll decline, because that's what all games do over time, but the foreign scene is not dependent on the Korean scene. If anything, the foreign scene is propping up the Korean scene atm.
The worst case scenario seems to me to be a War3 post-map scandal scenario in Korea, where there is pretty much no more Korean scene (i.e. very few big tournaments in Korea) but still a lot of good players in Korea. The best and most marketable Koreans are then picked up by foreign teams and flown out to compete in foreign tournaments, where they make lots of money and fly back home. Rinse and repeat for years. Story of Korean War3 players' lives, and it's already happening anyways.
On September 01 2013 03:45 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: As fan of foreign sc2 this is meanless for me...
Without at least a halfway "healthy" Korean sc2 scene, there is a pretty big chance "foreign sc2" will follow suit next.
Why people don't remember that when kespa joined sc2 korean pro player pool got double. That's not good or normal for scene. Way too many players for this scene. This is just good. We all knew that someday some teams have to disband...
Exactly, people seem to forget that when KeSPA switched over it doubled the sc2 player base in Korea. They don't seem to remember the days when it was just the GSL folks. People weren't complaining the scene was dying when it was just the ESF teams. We are just going back to an equilibrium.
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Lots of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
This is nothing like BW. Rumors are just rumors but if something this cataclysmic were to occur in SC2, the scene is nowhere near as well-funded, well-liked or deeply rooted as the BW scene. You cannot make a well-founded argument for the SC2 surviving using the BW scene as a basis for your theory.
Yes, I can. BW didn't have much of a foreign scene. You are ignoring this fact. The SC2 scene has a vibrant foreign community. Dunno why you are neglecting this fact.
Half the reason the foreign scene is so big is that you get the best Koreans attending major events, maintaining the highest level of play, along with a few choice foreigners. Nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play. If the Korean scene collapses, these guys stop showing up at major foreign events, ergo the foreign scene becomes dull and dries up as well.
Look at the LA scene if you want to see what a foreign scene with no KR influence looks like. It ain't pretty.
What do you mean "nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play?" There's a large segment of the sc2 scene that is clamoring for region locking. Don't you see all the TL, twitter, and reddit post about people saying that WCS should be region locked, etc.
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Lots of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
This is nothing like BW. Rumors are just rumors but if something this cataclysmic were to occur in SC2, the scene is nowhere near as well-funded, well-liked or deeply rooted as the BW scene. You cannot make a well-founded argument for the SC2 surviving using the BW scene as a basis for your theory.
Yes, I can. BW didn't have much of a foreign scene. You are ignoring this fact. The SC2 scene has a vibrant foreign community. Dunno why you are neglecting this fact.
Half the reason the foreign scene is so big is that you get the best Koreans attending major events, maintaining the highest level of play, along with a few choice foreigners. Nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play. If the Korean scene collapses, these guys stop showing up at major foreign events, ergo the foreign scene becomes dull and dries up as well.
Look at the LA scene if you want to see what a foreign scene with no KR influence looks like. It ain't pretty.
What do you mean "nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play?" There's a large segment of the sc2 scene that is clamoring for region locking. Don't you see all the TL, twitter, and reddit post about people saying that WCS should be region locked, etc.
Let me put it this way: Two Bo7s are about to start. You can watch MarineKing vs. Taeja, or Scarlett vs. Naniwa. Which do you watch? Or how about choosing Kas vs. Nerchio, or Life vs. Maru?
On September 01 2013 03:38 pigmanbear wrote: The writing is definitely on the wall for SC2, though I think there will be decent purses for the next 12-18 months (optimistically). The real question is, when do we see a modern competitor? I know I'm not the only one who is only interested in competitive RTS where managing economies and armies are important, and not pure micro, single-player on team games like DOTA and LOL.
I don't fear for the fall of SC2, Blizzard brought that on itself by forcing the game through Blizzard servers. If they distributed SC2 like they did SC1/BW, obviously people would copy it for free and it could rival BW as the ubiquitous RTS over time.
What I find worrying is the prospect that SC2 is the last even semi-popular RTS, and that people who enjoy these games are dinosaurs, like playing text adventures.
This happened in brood war many times. Lots of players retired, teams died out, teams gained new sponsors, etc. This isn't something new. And Brood war survived for 10+ years.
This is nothing like BW. Rumors are just rumors but if something this cataclysmic were to occur in SC2, the scene is nowhere near as well-funded, well-liked or deeply rooted as the BW scene. You cannot make a well-founded argument for the SC2 surviving using the BW scene as a basis for your theory.
Yes, I can. BW didn't have much of a foreign scene. You are ignoring this fact. The SC2 scene has a vibrant foreign community. Dunno why you are neglecting this fact.
Half the reason the foreign scene is so big is that you get the best Koreans attending major events, maintaining the highest level of play, along with a few choice foreigners. Nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play. If the Korean scene collapses, these guys stop showing up at major foreign events, ergo the foreign scene becomes dull and dries up as well.
Look at the LA scene if you want to see what a foreign scene with no KR influence looks like. It ain't pretty.
What do you mean "nobody wants to watch consistently so-so play?" There's a large segment of the sc2 scene that is clamoring for region locking. Don't you see all the TL, twitter, and reddit post about people saying that WCS should be region locked, etc.
That's because region locking would still permit high-level play of a few Koreans who actually would (or already have) move to different countries to play in WCS. If there isn't any Korean scene, foreigners become less marketable, because the relevance of foreign players has always been directly proportional to their tendency to measure up against Koreans.
EPT
