EPTIt's just an observation, and a side effect blizzard doesn't intend.
If they want to change ZvT they should change it there.
Edit: clarity
Call to Action: August 19 Balance Testing - Page 7
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Timmsh
Netherlands201 Posts
It's just an observation, and a side effect blizzard doesn't intend. If they want to change ZvT they should change it there. Edit: clarity | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:11 Tsubbi wrote: it seems we are all at the mercy of random changes blizzard come up during their morning coffee, sometimes i wish some other institution like kespa was in charge of balancing the game David Kim announced this change on Climbing the Ladder. Whatever you might say about him, he is fairly transparent and will tell the community about his current thoughts etc. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:23 Timmsh wrote: I use hallucinations nowadays :-) It's just an observation, and a side effect blizzard doesn't intend. If they want to change ZvT they should change it there. Edit: clarity Oh, even worse reason to say Z cant scout. And what do you mean what they didnt intend? If a Z has speed and overseers then this is probably at least beyond 10 minutes in... | ||
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habeck
1120 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
I think blizzard should try making armor reduce the damage of widow mines. And considering mines are very cheap and can be reactored I would also like to see them implement friendly fire to widow mines. | ||
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Msr
Korea (South)495 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:19 Timmsh wrote: I vote against the overseer buff, because as protoss it's already hard to deny scouting from the zerg. This change, will make it impossible. hallucination phoenix is the most effective scouting imo.... plus its not like an overseer wont see everything important already anyway the changes are both very bad. Battlecruisers are too strong vs zerg, but not very viable atm. Anything that can potentially make this transition easier is probably not going to be good unless zerg gets an anti air unit soon. ultra change is w/e, does not address tvz issue. regardless of balance changes mines need to take priority from attacking units so that lings/bling dont just run over them in fights. The fact this has not been addressed yet baffles me. I would suggest making 3/3 upgradeable with a lair. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:01 ottosec wrote: Terran will never play Mech as long as MMM is so cost effective, no matter what buffs Mech gets. They will just cry over and over that it's not viable because of Immortals and Vipers and keep pushing that "A" button, like they always do. I don't see how overseer buff will help zerg much, except for maybe better scouting. Ultralisk seems already one of the strongest units in the game, why would the buff it, only God knows. Because Terran players surely enjoy losing their entire bio army, that has to be meticulously micro'd down, to F + click and a-move. Mech is actually very viable despite what Code S players say, and all Terrans are secretly masochistic. | ||
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neozxa
Indonesia545 Posts
I don't like how they seem to not care about the units that aren't viable in certain or all matchups such as Swarmhosts in TvZ, the complete dissapearance of Broodlords in all matchups (or TvZ only), lategame oracles, and CARRIERS, for F's sake. Buff them directly please, instead of making these "indirect" buffs that will end up in buffing other parts of gameplay like they did a while ago (*cough* Queens *cough*). On the upside I'm interested in seeing where the Overseer buff will lead to. Maybe Zerg will have an easier time dealing against widow mines with them around. | ||
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TT1
Canada10009 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:30 Grumbels wrote: David Kim announced this change on Climbing the Ladder. Whatever you might say about him, he is fairly transparent and will tell the community about his current thoughts etc. what he actually said was the alternatives to the overseer buff where ultralisk hp buff or blinding cloud affecting widow mines in addition he mentioned in multiple interviews that vipers are not strong and will be changed so now they remove the viper buff and buff ultralisk, there is just no consistency in what blizzard says or does | ||
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Lorch
Germany3683 Posts
TBH right now looking at tournament results and how I think some of the metas will progress I honestly think protoss should recieve a small nerf. Terran is kinda screwed now because hellbat is pretty meh after the nerf so there is no real answer to chargelots anymore and with mamaship core many protoss continue to figure out that all they have to do is not die and take as little damage as possible and they are fine. PvZ I really think P will eventually figure out that if you just do super sharp ultra allin 2 base builds with a mothership core you should get an insanely high winrate. So looking at that I think P, mainly the core, may be a bit too strong atm, though it's really hard to point out what exactly needs to be changed, maybe make some of those abilities an upgrade. On the other hand looking at how few upgrades star 2 has compared to brood war and how many they already removed I feel like they hate upgrades. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:35 Msr wrote: hallucination phoenix is the most effective scouting imo.... plus its not like an overseer wont see everything important already anyway the changes are both very bad. Battlecruisers are too strong vs zerg, but not very viable atm. Anything that can potentially make this transition easier is probably not going to be good unless zerg gets an anti air unit soon. ultra change is w/e, does not address tvz issue. regardless of balance changes mines need to take priority from attacking units so that lings/bling dont just run over them in fights. The fact this has not been addressed yet baffles me. I would suggest making 3/3 upgradeable with a lair. You realisw that pure corrupter actually beats skyterran as long as you don't clump up and get everything seeker missiled right? Just spread out like Terran does with vikings vs zerg due to fungal and you'll be fine. Also if they're going mech (more likely to sky transition) you should really be getting air upgrades. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On August 20 2013 19:07 Qikz wrote: You realisw that pure corrupter actually beats skyterran as long as you don't clump up and get everything seeker missiled right? Just spread out like Terran does with vikings vs zerg due to fungal and you'll be fine. Also if they're going mech (more likely to sky transition) you should really be getting air upgrades. Mass corruptors/swarmhosts/vipers + mass spores/spines actually beat EVERY SINGLE TERRAN COMPOSITION, including skyterran. The Terran can't break your position, and given abduct's range, you will slowly kill every single one of his. This is the issue with vipers. The unit is in most situations underpowered, but they are a few lategame scenario where the unit becomes virtually the most imbalanced unit in the game. Abduct is the reason for all this. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On August 20 2013 17:55 Nebuchad wrote: I love how half the people are whining because "the ultras are going to be too strong", and half the people are whining because "ZvT won't be fixed at all". Just try it out, people. I guess it's cool to have threads like these some of the time to remind us how much everyone is ready to cry on details. No, it makes perfect sense that people are whining like this. Ultras are already extremely strong, and buffing them is extremely questionable but still "ZvT won't be fixed at all" because the main problem zergs have been having vs terran (at the very top level) is their inability to transition to hive tech because they'll get rolled by the endless waves of marines and mines whilst doing so. It's just a completely random change that makes absolutely no sense given what is currently going on in top level Korean TvZ games as of late. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On August 20 2013 19:12 SiroKO wrote: Mass corruptors/swarmhosts/vipers + mass spores/spines actually beat EVERY SINGLE TERRAN COMPOSITION, including skyterran. The Terran can't break your position, and given abduct's range, you will slowly kill every single one of his. pure corruptor is like the worst thing vs skyterran. PDD + seeker + vikings own that really hard. mass spore SH viper works only if T forgets to just nuke locusts and after that use the timing window to just nuke all spores and spines and win the game or if Z goes back move forward. SH spore viper is just stupid and boring, not imbalanced. Z only plays this vs P lategame or vs raven BC + support since nothing else works vs that. would be nice if they nerf SH turtle and finally buff AA Z + give Z a way to deal with spellcaster. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 20 2013 19:07 Qikz wrote: You realisw that pure corrupter actually beats skyterran as long as you don't clump up and get everything seeker missiled right? Just spread out like Terran does with vikings vs zerg due to fungal and you'll be fine. Also if they're going mech (more likely to sky transition) you should really be getting air upgrades. wrong. That's only if you rely on mass seeker missile for your skyterran. if you rely on BC/Viking/PDD/Yamato you beat corruptors quite handily. The way to combat skyterran is Viper+Corruptor+static defense and pull them into you. Everything else loses to the above if it is in the proper ratio (against hydras you need BC/PDD, against Corruptors you need Viking/PDD, against Infestors you need BC/Seeker) | ||
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
On August 20 2013 19:15 AxionSteel wrote: No, it makes perfect sense that people are whining like this. Ultras are already extremely strong, and buffing them is extremely questionable but still "ZvT won't be fixed at all" because the main problem zergs have been having vs terran (at the very top level) is their inability to transition to hive tech because they'll get rolled by the endless waves of marines and mines whilst doing so. It's just a completely random change that makes absolutely no sense given what is currently going on in top level Korean TvZ games as of late. Did David Kim say the changes are because of top level korean games? Usually SC2 patches should reflect most levels of play, right? You can't just buff the ultra if every terran in gold and platinum gets rolled. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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ETisME
12399 Posts
On August 20 2013 19:12 SiroKO wrote: Mass corruptors/swarmhosts/vipers + mass spores/spines actually beat EVERY SINGLE TERRAN COMPOSITION, including skyterran. The Terran can't break your position, and given abduct's range, you will slowly kill every single one of his. This is the issue with vipers. The unit is in most situations underpowered, but they are a few lategame scenario where the unit becomes virtually the most imbalanced unit in the game. Abduct is the reason for all this. you obviously haven't seen the power of skyterran during the beta where a lot of pro gamer used it. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
On August 20 2013 19:17 Decendos wrote: pure corruptor is like the worst thing vs skyterran. PDD + seeker + vikings own that really hard. mass spore SH viper works only if T forgets to just nuke locusts and after that use the timing window to just nuke all spores and spines and win the game or if Z goes back move forward. You realize they are overseers and that spore have detection. Thus how are you suppose to nuke anything given the endless swarm of locus and the eventuality of getting abducted. Even if the nukes land, you are trading minerals/gaz (nuke) for pure minerals or static position (if Zerg retreats). Sure this unit composition does not equal auto-win and is hard to micro, but it is so cost-effective since Zerg doesn't lose anything except few mis-microed vipers here and there and some spores/spines. | ||
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