All 16 contender have been divided into four groups. The format used will be the Dual Tournament Format, where one needs two wins to advance or he will drop after two losses. Each match of the group stage is played in Bo3. The winner of the third and fifth match of each group will advance to the Single-elimination tournament, where quarter-finals and semi-finals are Bo5 and the grand finale is Bo7.
Hm, while Jaedong has a tough group with three Protosses, I think he could beat both MC (on a good day) and Welmu, so not all hope is lost for JD fans. Group B definitely looks the hardest, I don't think Grubby has more than a snowflake's chance in hell to make it out of this group
My predictions: A: Rain, MC B: Bomber, First C: Innovation, TheDuck D: Maru, Scarlett
While Innovation probably is the strongest player there, I believe Polt, Bomber and First all to be on roughly the same level, while only Taeja is so in group c.
So group b is my choice for group of DEATH!
Good groups for Welmu (vP) and Scarlett (vZ). Scarlett might even be favored to go through in her group, after Maru.
While Jaedong being in a group with 3 P was the first thing that I saw, I still think he can advance in second place and overall group A seems to be the weakest, that just goes to show how crazy these groups are.
Sad that Acer has a teamkill but at least there is a decent chance of a foreigner making it from that group ahead of MMA.
I would have given Naniwa a chance too if he had gotten the group of Welmu (ahead of MC and Jaedong) but like this it doesn't look too good for the European players I am afraid.
Eh, I think Jaedong will get through ahead of Welmu and MC. His JvP might be bad, but I think his match against Jim showed he's still a threat in his worst match up.
Naniwa v INnoVation is something I'm looking forward to, fingers crossed he pulls an upset. I also think Jim and Scarlett have a very very good chance of making it out of group D.
But of course, this season finals is Bomber's to lose.
On August 15 2013 02:49 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: How does it work, 1st vs 4th/2nd vs 3rd or 1st vs 2nd/3rd vs 4th ?
The latter
how do you know?
If he's referring to the order in which everyone plays each other in each group, that was the way they were played at the previous regional so I assume it's the same here.
Group A - Rain & JD: Rain has the best PvP in that group and I think with JD only having to practice ZvP he'll get through. Group B - Polt & Bomber: I want Grubby to advance but he really got screwed imo. First stands a good chance since his PvT is amazing but I'm still rooting for Polt & Bomber, they are two of my favorite terrans. Group C - Innovation & Taeja: No other option. Group D - Maru & Scarlett: Jim stands no chance imo and Scarlett will beat out MMA.
On August 15 2013 03:26 Zealously wrote: You've got to be kidding, Nani with Taeja/Innovation and the guy who beat him? Oh well, I guess it'll be a challenge and he likes those ^^
Wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him to go 4-0 in maps(Obviously not gonna happen). Hes the guy who beats the players he shouldn't beat while losing to some European Zerg in the meantime
LOL these groups are so stacked. To be completely honest, pretty much everyone except for the cleat favorites of the tournament got PRETTY screwed by their groups. And that's the way it should be, difficulty ftw.
On August 15 2013 03:28 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: 최지성 @Startale_Bomber 1 min Season Final EU Group announced!! My group is Polt,Grubby and First The first match is vs First again
Only protosses in Jaedong's group is his punishment from the starcraft-gods for that 6pool spine crawler rush in the ace match vs Scarlet. Instant justice, I like it.
On August 15 2013 03:24 SidianTheBard wrote: Group A - Rain & JD: Rain has the best PvP in that group and I think with JD only having to practice ZvP he'll get through. Group B - Polt & Bomber: I want Grubby to advance but he really got screwed imo. First stands a good chance since his PvT is amazing but I'm still rooting for Polt & Bomber, they are two of my favorite terrans. Group C - Innovation & Taeja: No other option. Group D - Maru & Scarlett: Jim stands no chance imo and Scarlett will beat out MMA.
Jim might beat MMA but Scarlett definitely would not. Even if her ZvT is good enough, she just doesn't beat MMA.
god i want Grubby to advance so badly but his group is so tough. plus i really like all four players in that group, so i lose either way. or maybe i win either way?
anyways, sick groups overall. this should be a sick event.
Scarlett can definitely do it. Bomber would have been easier, because his TvZ is... bad... but beside Bomber I think Maru and MMA is ok (or better: INnoVation/Taeja/Polt are stronger, imo). For Welmu it's gonna be hard, Grubby has no chance to advance and NaNiwa neither. So, Scarlett is imo the foreigner hope
B looks like the best group for sure. Bomber and Polt should be favored, but First can absolutely do it. Thing is, despite all of the Artosis hype he's kind of unstable in PvT. He hovers between godly and meh.
I remember him owning Dream at IEM then losing to a weakling like Labyrinth in code A :/
On August 15 2013 03:24 SidianTheBard wrote: Group A - Rain & JD: Rain has the best PvP in that group and I think with JD only having to practice ZvP he'll get through. Group B - Polt & Bomber: I want Grubby to advance but he really got screwed imo. First stands a good chance since his PvT is amazing but I'm still rooting for Polt & Bomber, they are two of my favorite terrans. Group C - Innovation & Taeja: No other option. Group D - Maru & Scarlett: Jim stands no chance imo and Scarlett will beat out MMA.
Jim might beat MMA but Scarlett definitely would not. Even if her ZvT is good enough, she just doesn't beat MMA.
Actually Scarlett has said somewhere fairly recently that she was at the top of the in-house axiom-acer ladder in Korea. This would mean she has probably beat MMA many times.
Very nice balanced groups. Every foreigner has a big challenge to get out of the groups, but it's certainly not impossible for them either. I'm calling Scarlett gets first place in her group if she plays as well as she has been recently.
On August 15 2013 02:20 HammerKick wrote: Poor Grubby...
why ? easiest group, polt is hard but bomber and first are still better then rain,maru,innovation,taeja,,,
he has an easy group
Huh? Bomber if he plays his best is the scariest player in that group and First's PvP is arguably the strongest here with possibly only Rain being better.
On August 15 2013 02:20 HammerKick wrote: Poor Grubby...
why ? easiest group, polt is hard but bomber and first are still better then rain,maru,innovation,taeja,,,
he has an easy group
Not sure if serious...
People disregarding bomber because all they think about is Bomber's law. He has to get to that point where the "law" actually occurs, and until it hits, he is a brilliant player. which isn't total fucking bullshit, like for real the guy is a top 4 osl player, give him a break
I assume the groups were formed by random draws, because they're unbalanced as all hell. Still, should be interesting to see how the european/american WCS Koreans stack up against the "real" ones.
On August 15 2013 02:20 HammerKick wrote: Poor Grubby...
why ? easiest group, polt is hard but bomber and first are still better then rain,maru,innovation,taeja,,,
he has an easy group
First beat rain and bomber beat taeja. I think that if beast mode first shows up he could win the whole thing. He beat rain straight up in OSL and if innovation gets taken out in TvT it could totally happen.
Jaedong gets 3 protosses lol. I think he can beat Welmu and MC though. Group B is pretty tough to call. It's funny, I even think Grubby has a (perhaps small) shot at getting out. I'd be incredibly surprised if duckdeok or NaNiwa got out of Group C, what with how strong those two terrans have been looking. As for Group D – I personally think it's the easiest group – and I'd have to bet on Maru and Scarlett.
Group A : Rain & Jaedong. JD needs to practice only JvP so I think he will do very well in this group. Group B : Bomber & First Polt very strong but Bomber & First are such scary opponents. Group C : Innovation & Taeja Easiest group. Group D : Maru & MMA I don't buy the Jype at all and MMA can beat Scarlett.
Predictions: Group A: Rain and Jaedong Group Bomber: Bomber Polt Group C: Innovation and Taeja Group D: Maru and MMA(fingers crossed) more realistically Jim.
Heart: Jaedong wins it all Head: Polt or Innovation
Im really hoping Rain doesn't pull a Innovation from season 1 and win this tournament, and I'm really hoping Maru doesn't pull a Soulkey from season 1. I don't even think Welmu even deserves to be there. Only reason why he made it as far as he did was because of PvP and I just don't see any PvP's happening besides in his group.
On August 15 2013 04:40 painkilla wrote: Group A : Rain & Jaedong. Group B : Bomber & First Group C : Innovation & Taeja Group D : Maru & MMA
Polt has looked the most solid out of any player this season....
His TvP is insane but I think Bomber will beat Polt in a TvT. And First is very scary PvT macro games so unless Polt can come up with weird builds to snipe him, I'd give First an edge.
On August 15 2013 02:20 HammerKick wrote: Poor Grubby...
why ? easiest group, polt is hard but bomber and first are still better then rain,maru,innovation,taeja,,,
he has an easy group
Huh? Bomber if he plays his best is the scariest player in that group and First's PvP is arguably the strongest here with possibly only Rain being better.
Polt can definitely make it out if this group if First and Grubby don't surprise him with special builds. Polt bs Bomber is literally impossible to predict, as is anything with Bomber being involve.
On August 15 2013 04:40 painkilla wrote: Group A : Rain & Jaedong. Group B : Bomber & First Group C : Innovation & Taeja Group D : Maru & MMA
Polt has looked the most solid out of any player this season....
His TvP is insane but I think Bomber will beat Polt in a TvT. And First is very scary PvT macro games so unless Polt can come up with weird builds to snipe him, I'd give First an edge.
Overall I think Bomber has better TvT than Polt, but his style matches up badly against Polt style. Bomber has great offense but is prone to questionable moves and random weak points in his defense, and Polt is always ready to punish. Polt vs First is going to be interesting, I think it will come down to how efficient First can trade while defending.
those groups are STACKED! Jeez foreigners are going to have a hard time. But I feel like Welmu could somehow make it out of his group. Scarlett too. Sorry Nani.
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
There is also the off chance that Scarlett can actually knock off Maru in a ZvT. His last televised TvZ was against Symbol and despite winning there I couldn't help but feel that Symbol just did not play a good series against him, perhaps Scarlett has a chance there, narrow perhaps but not impossible.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
On August 15 2013 05:19 FoShao wrote: lol whoever made these groups must not like Jaedong
Naniwa got screwed way harder than Jaedong did.
At least Jaedong only needs to prepare for one match up and has arguably the weakest foreigner in his group. Naniwa has to prepare for a PvP against duckdeok and then TvP vs two of the best Terrans in the world.
Grubby might have gotten it the worst out of everyone though.
First has amazing Code S level PvP and Bomber and Polt are both monsters in TvP provided Bomber doesn't try to pull some boneheaded Mech build. (Still bitter about that one Wintex?)
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
I really don't understand how you guys think that MMA won't advance from his group. He's won 65% of his games in HotS and 77% of his games against zerg.
What the hell happened to Soulkey?! The final match will be Innovation Vs Polt. I don't know who will win tho and obviously the odds are in favor of Innovation.
On August 15 2013 05:26 LittleRedBoy wrote: I really don't understand how you guys think that MMA won't advance from his group. He's won 65% of his games in HotS and 77% of his games against zerg.
Stomping through WCS Europe is not the same as going toe to toe with players on the caliber of Maru or going against ZvT snipers like Scarlett.
On August 15 2013 05:26 indiouhh wrote: What the hell happened to Soulkey?! The final match will be Innovation Vs Polt. I don't know who will win tho and obviously the odds are in favor of Innovation.
Innovation? You mean the guy that lost 0-6 combined to Maru and Bomber, who are also in this tournament?
On August 15 2013 05:26 indiouhh wrote: What the hell happened to Soulkey?! The final match will be Innovation Vs Polt. I don't know who will win tho and obviously the odds are in favor of Innovation.
On August 15 2013 05:26 indiouhh wrote: What the hell happened to Soulkey?! The final match will be Innovation Vs Polt. I don't know who will win tho and obviously the odds are in favor of Innovation.
Innovation and Supernova happened to Soulkey.
He got unlucky in the pairings for the Ro8 in WCS Korea going against Innovation there.
Once he got into the playoff qualifier for 5th place he met Supernova who played an AMAZING series there to knock him out of contention for the finals only to then lose to First in the last series.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
I may be talking like a fanboy, but MMA TvZ is really strong, its no overrating. He only lost to Hyun and Life in Hots in Bo3 or Bo5 series.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
Jim has a decent group, though he could finish 1st or last in that group.
Actually any combination of group D would not surprise me. The other 3 groups all have 1 player I don't see advancing (Welmu, Grubby, and surprisingly WCS EU champ Duckdeok) .
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
Gimme five man, thats what im talking about)
Right, you have to look at the results of players and not go by what you hear from casters or people on the forums. Just because someone like Apollo says that MMA "isn't the player that he used to be", or something along those lines doesn't mean that he isn't good anymore. He's lost A FEW ZvPs recently but that has historically been his weakest matchup.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
I think Scarlett > MMA in skill level is total BS. We'll see though.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
On this one I'm looking at quality of opponents Scarlett has beaten vs pure win percentage.
MMA might have a decent win % vs Zerg but look at who he's been beating.
His best accomplishment in ZvT lately has been a 2-0 of BboongBboong in the WCG Qualifiers, and I haven't seen BboongBboong play since the first two rounds of GSTL. Other than that he's been mostly stomping through Foreign Zergs not up to Scarlett's level in WCS Europe.
Scarlett's match history vs Terran on the other hand is INSANE. She's stomped on every foreign Terran she's come across lately save for a Bo1 loss to Dayshi and has gone almost 50% with Korean Terrans at the level or better than MMA.
If she can 2-0 Polt even on one of his bad days I think she has a good chance vs MMA especially if she carries any of her momentum from WCS America in with her.
I believe Naniwa can take revenge on duck and then hopefully do some weird meta shit to take out innovation/taeja:D Jaedong only got one matchup to practice so thats good. Scarlett is imo atleast the second strongest player in her group so she should be fine.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
Gimme five man, thats what im talking about)
Right, you have to look at the results of players and not go by what you hear from casters or people on the forums. Just because someone like Apollo says that MMA "isn't the player that he used to be", or something along those lines doesn't mean that he isn't good anymore. He's lost A FEW ZvPs recently but that has historically been his weakest matchup.
Thats right, i mean i wont be surprised if MMA lose to Jim, but he is a clear favourite versus Scarlet.
I hate the way Blizzard shows the country flags on the original image. A flag is not a round ball... the dutch and swedish flag can kinda survive this, but the korean and canadian flags look rediculous. Make it rectangular as it should be, please.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
Gimme five man, thats what im talking about)
Right, you have to look at the results of players and not go by what you hear from casters or people on the forums. Just because someone like Apollo says that MMA "isn't the player that he used to be", or something along those lines doesn't mean that he isn't good anymore. He's lost A FEW ZvPs recently but that has historically been his weakest matchup.
I wouldn't be surprised if ZvP is MMA's weakest matchup, I don't expect him to practice it much
Damn, poor Jaedong. Things just don't go right for him.
Guess he can just continue practising that ZvP though. Eventually it'll be like JYPvT and he'll become good at it, losing his skill in ZvZ and ZvT in the process.
On August 15 2013 05:54 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I hate the way Blizzard shows the country flags on the original image. A flag is not a round ball... the dutch and swedish flag can kinda survive this, but the korean and canadian flags look rediculous. Make it rectangular as it should be, please.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
On this one I'm looking at quality of opponents Scarlett has beaten vs pure win percentage.
MMA might have a decent win % vs Zerg but look at who he's been beating.
His best accomplishment in ZvT lately has been a 2-0 of BboongBboong in the WCG Qualifiers, and I haven't seen BboongBboong play since the first two rounds of GSTL. Other than that he's been mostly stomping through Foreign Zergs not up to Scarlett's level in WCS Europe.
Scarlett's match history vs Terran on the other hand is INSANE. She's stomped on every foreign Terran she's come across lately save for a Bo1 loss to Dayshi and has gone almost 50% with Korean Terrans at the level or better than MMA.
If she can 2-0 Polt even on one of his bad days I think she has a good chance vs MMA especially if she carries any of her momentum from WCS America in with her.
She hasn't played very many foreign terrans lately. She beat Strelok 3-1 recently and Illusion. Besides that, and her loss to Dayshi, she hasn't played a foreign terran since May. Yes, she beat aLive 3-0, but the first two games in that series were long, close games. And I wouldn't say that aLive is as good at TvZ as MMA is.
On August 15 2013 06:03 Fjodorov wrote: Whats up with all the sad faces for JD? He has Welmu and MC to beat, how is that not the easiest grp for him even if ZvP is his worst match up...
Yes, people seem to think that Jaedong's ZvP is terrible or something. There are certainly players with better ZvP than him, but that doesn't mean that he is bad in the match up. It's just that his other match ups, specifically ZvZ, are just so much better.
On August 15 2013 06:22 Huragius wrote: Welmu and Naniwa have a really slight chance of advancing second from the group, but that's it for foreigners.
Honestly I think Scarlett has a very good shot of getting second behind Maru in group D. I don't think Welmu has much chance in his group. He was 3-0d by MC at WCS EU finals and Rain and Jaedong likely have his number as well. As for Nani, I don't think he's in top form and even if he was I think Taeja/Innovation would still beat him, not to mention the fact that Duckdeok beat him 3-1 at WCS EU finals.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
On this one I'm looking at quality of opponents Scarlett has beaten vs pure win percentage.
MMA might have a decent win % vs Zerg but look at who he's been beating.
His best accomplishment in ZvT lately has been a 2-0 of BboongBboong in the WCG Qualifiers, and I haven't seen BboongBboong play since the first two rounds of GSTL. Other than that he's been mostly stomping through Foreign Zergs not up to Scarlett's level in WCS Europe.
Scarlett's match history vs Terran on the other hand is INSANE. She's stomped on every foreign Terran she's come across lately save for a Bo1 loss to Dayshi and has gone almost 50% with Korean Terrans at the level or better than MMA.
If she can 2-0 Polt even on one of his bad days I think she has a good chance vs MMA especially if she carries any of her momentum from WCS America in with her.
Beating alive, who refuses to make more than a third base and doesn't split his bio until the end of ling/bling/muta attacks, doesn't make you insane at a matchup. And I'm quite sure everyone stomps foreign terrans.
On August 15 2013 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote: My Predictions:
A. Rain/Jaedong
I'm predicting a Rain stomp through that group with Jaedong narrowly beating MC in the final match to advance. Sadly I don't give Welmu much of a chance here.
B. Polt/Bomber
As good as First played against Fantasy, his absolute dismantling at the hands of Bomber leaves me worried about a chance for a Protoss to advance here. Polt is IMO the strongest player in this group but with how much of a wildcard Bomber can be in TvT I can see him advancing also in second place on the back of his amazing TvP alone.
I just do not see First or Grubby going toe to toe with Polt's TvP and winning.
C. Innovation/Taeja
I do not understand why Group C is currently leading in the Group of Death vote. Innovation and Taeja are in two different leagues compared with Naniwa and Duckdeok. If either of these two do not advance it will be an enormous upset. Then again, Innovation DID lose to Maru and Taeja did drop a map in TvP to Macsed so anything is possible.
D. Maru/Scarlett
This one is honestly the hardest to call. The easiest claim I can make here is that MMA is the weakest player in the group and Maru is the strongest but I have no idea how to call second and third. Scarlett SHOULD win her first place match vs MMA and Maru should win vs Jim but I just do not know who will advance in second place, I went with Scarlett in the end because even though she has expressed concern in her own ZvP, Jim's ZvP vs Jaedong did not look convincing enough to me to give him the odds on nod to advance over her.
Callling MMA the weakest player in group is kinda weird.
As someone who was a fan of MMA in his prime I will agree, but times have changed.
Of course he is not in top form right now, but anyway, he will definetly beat Scarlett, and can beat Jim. He may lost to Maru of course. He is still elite terran, according to many ratings.
You're either overrating MMA's TvZ or underrating Scarlett's ZvT.
ZvT is her best match up and from what I've seen of MMA's play lately I wouldn't even consider the two of them close to the same skill level in that match up.
It is a team kill though, so MMA might have Scarlett figured out enough to give him an edge but the reverse is just as likely.
You wouldn't consider the two of them close to the same skill level in TvZ/ZvT? MMA has a better winning percentage against Zerg than Scarlett does against Terran in HotS. In fact, MMA has only lost 4 Bo3/Bo5 in the past 4 months. Two of those losses were to Hyun and he went 2-3 against Life in a Bo5.
On this one I'm looking at quality of opponents Scarlett has beaten vs pure win percentage.
MMA might have a decent win % vs Zerg but look at who he's been beating.
His best accomplishment in ZvT lately has been a 2-0 of BboongBboong in the WCG Qualifiers, and I haven't seen BboongBboong play since the first two rounds of GSTL. Other than that he's been mostly stomping through Foreign Zergs not up to Scarlett's level in WCS Europe.
Scarlett's match history vs Terran on the other hand is INSANE. She's stomped on every foreign Terran she's come across lately save for a Bo1 loss to Dayshi and has gone almost 50% with Korean Terrans at the level or better than MMA.
If she can 2-0 Polt even on one of his bad days I think she has a good chance vs MMA especially if she carries any of her momentum from WCS America in with her.
Beating alive, who refuses to make more than a third base and doesn't split his bio until the end of ling/bling/muta attacks, doesn't make you insane at a matchup. And I'm quite sure everyone stomps foreign terrans.
Apart from Jim and Scarlett in Group D, don't think that there will be foreigner advances from the groups.. Maybe Welmu cause he got 2 Protoss in his group, but.. - probably not gonna happen.. Kinda want to see Naniwa do well, but also not being a douchy BM, cause Grubby has absolutely no chance in his group.. so IDK
As for the winner predictions:
Group A: Jaedong > Rain > Welmu > MC Group B: Polt > Bomber > Grubby > First Group C: Taeja > Naniwa > Innovation > duckdeok Group D: Jim > Scarlett > Maru > MMA
Sad to see so few zergs in the finals. Scarlett's got a pretty good group and JD's doesn't look impossible, though. There's hope for greater racial diversity in the Ro8 (proportionally)!
I expect Polt or Taeja to take the whole thing. Polt winning would be glorious.
On August 15 2013 07:07 VArsovskiSC wrote: Apart from Jim and Scarlett in Group D, don't think that there will be foreigner advances from the groups.. Maybe Welmu cause he got 2 Protoss in his group, but.. - probably not gonna happen.. Kinda want to see Naniwa do well, but also not being a douchy BM, cause Grubby has absolutely no chance in his group.. so IDK
As for the winner predictions:
Group A: Jaedong > Rain > Welmu > MC Group B: Polt > Bomber > Grubby > First Group C: Taeja > Naniwa > Innovation > duckdeok Group D: Jim > Scarlett > Maru > MMA
For some of these might be on dope though..
You're picking two foreigners over the reigning champion of WCS Korea?
On August 15 2013 07:07 VArsovskiSC wrote: Apart from Jim and Scarlett in Group D, don't think that there will be foreigner advances from the groups.. Maybe Welmu cause he got 2 Protoss in his group, but.. - probably not gonna happen.. Kinda want to see Naniwa do well, but also not being a douchy BM, cause Grubby has absolutely no chance in his group.. so IDK
As for the winner predictions:
Group A: Jaedong > Rain > Welmu > MC Group B: Polt > Bomber > Grubby > First Group C: Taeja > Naniwa > Innovation > duckdeok Group D: Jim > Scarlett > Maru > MMA
For some of these might be on dope though..
You're picking two foreigners over the reigning champion of WCS Korea?
Hahaha picking foreigners over maru havent we learned anything ? :D We all know how this group is gonna play out :D
On August 15 2013 07:07 VArsovskiSC wrote: Apart from Jim and Scarlett in Group D, don't think that there will be foreigner advances from the groups.. Maybe Welmu cause he got 2 Protoss in his group, but.. - probably not gonna happen.. Kinda want to see Naniwa do well, but also not being a douchy BM, cause Grubby has absolutely no chance in his group.. so IDK
As for the winner predictions:
Group A: Jaedong > Rain > Welmu > MC Group B: Polt > Bomber > Grubby > First Group C: Taeja > Naniwa > Innovation > duckdeok Group D: Jim > Scarlett > Maru > MMA
For some of these might be on dope though..
You're picking two foreigners over the reigning champion of WCS Korea?
On August 15 2013 07:07 VArsovskiSC wrote: Apart from Jim and Scarlett in Group D, don't think that there will be foreigner advances from the groups.. Maybe Welmu cause he got 2 Protoss in his group, but.. - probably not gonna happen.. Kinda want to see Naniwa do well, but also not being a douchy BM, cause Grubby has absolutely no chance in his group.. so IDK
As for the winner predictions:
Group A: Jaedong > Rain > Welmu > MC Group B: Polt > Bomber > Grubby > First Group C: Taeja > Naniwa > Innovation > duckdeok Group D: Jim > Scarlett > Maru > MMA
For some of these might be on dope though..
You're picking two foreigners over the reigning champion of WCS Korea?
Hahaha picking foreigners over maru havent we learned anything ? :D
On August 15 2013 07:07 VArsovskiSC wrote: Apart from Jim and Scarlett in Group D, don't think that there will be foreigner advances from the groups.. Maybe Welmu cause he got 2 Protoss in his group, but.. - probably not gonna happen.. Kinda want to see Naniwa do well, but also not being a douchy BM, cause Grubby has absolutely no chance in his group.. so IDK
As for the winner predictions:
Group A: Jaedong > Rain > Welmu > MC Group B: Polt > Bomber > Grubby > First Group C: Taeja > Naniwa > Innovation > duckdeok Group D: Jim > Scarlett > Maru > MMA
For some of these might be on dope though..
You're picking two foreigners over the reigning champion of WCS Korea?
Butthurt Rain/Kespa fanboy probably.
That's not consistent with him picking Jaedong over Sun though.
On August 15 2013 03:31 LoveTool wrote: Only protosses in Jaedong's group is his punishment from the starcraft-gods for that 6pool spine crawler rush in the ace match vs Scarlet. Instant justice, I like it.
guys i think we are underestimating Bomber here, his law only kicks in when the match really counts , I reckon Bomber and Polt will get through from group B
Dont think any of Wcs eu stand a chance imo thats just the weak league of hasbeens and mediocre europeans now. JvZ is nonsense lately, he was terrible at it before but its alright now. He is just not consistent but i think he has a relatively easy group. Group B hardest probably with three good koreans i all give a shot. Scarlett for foreigner hope, jim and Mma both looked relatively weak i think so i think she can make it
On August 15 2013 08:19 Popkiller wrote: I'm still blown away by the fact that, aside from innovation, not one player from the S1 finals made it to the S2 finals...
Bo1 Ro32 WCS Korea yo.
Still sad MVP isn't up there. He'd be a fun underdog in any of the TvTs.
lol, the groups are fun, all groups are kinda fun, a has jd and the rest is overall okay, scarlett has a good shot with some luck she can advance, maru should be the clear favourite thou
A: Rain, Jaedong I don't think MC or Welmu can play at JD's level, even if it is JvP B: Bomber, Polt First looked shaky vs. Supernova C: Taeja, Innovation they're both very good at TvP D: Maru, Jim still unsure about Maru but I'll give him a chance since he did win WCS Korea. Jim could definitely beat Scarlett and MMA
wow group A :O Poor Jaedong. Going up against 3 protoss players, two of them which are likely to win I think Polt can advance. MMA's and finale's groups though, well, gl to them lol.
fAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK. (literally said that outloudliterterly) @ jaedong's group. ugh : (. i felt annoyed that he went 0-4 at the finals vs that one terran guy. now he's in a group full of protoss
On August 15 2013 08:38 Papples wrote: A: Rain, Jaedong I don't think MC or Welmu can play at JD's level, even if it is JvP B: Bomber, Polt First looked shaky vs. Supernova C: Taeja, Innovation they're both very good at TvP D: Maru, Jim still unsure about Maru but I'll give him a chance since he did win WCS Korea. Jim could definitely beat Scarlett and MMA
With Jaedong only having to practice one match up I actually think he has a decent chance of advancing but on the other hand I won't be surprised if he goes 0-4
Group D looks weaker than the others, really excited for A, B & C, gonna be hard for MC & Nani but Im cheering anyway + Taejas stream made me a fan so I get 1 "Favourite" of sorts to cheer for.
On August 15 2013 09:40 Betelgeuse wrote: With Jaedong only having to practice one match up I actually think he has a decent chance of advancing but on the other hand I won't be surprised if he goes 0-4
That's how I feel. I feel like he has a chance, but I won't be shocked at all if he gets knocked out T_T. I hope he just crushes his competition.
On August 15 2013 08:38 Papples wrote: A: Rain, Jaedong I don't think MC or Welmu can play at JD's level, even if it is JvP B: Bomber, Polt First looked shaky vs. Supernova C: Taeja, Innovation they're both very good at TvP D: Maru, Jim still unsure about Maru but I'll give him a chance since he did win WCS Korea. Jim could definitely beat Scarlett and MMA
MC definitely can play at his level, whether he will or not is another story. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see MC beat any other player, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised to see him lose to any other player either.
Does anyone find it strange that all three regional second place finishers are in the same group?
On August 15 2013 08:19 Popkiller wrote: I'm still blown away by the fact that, aside from innovation, not one player from the S1 finals made it to the S2 finals...
Bo1 Ro32 WCS Korea yo.
Still sad MVP isn't up there. He'd be a fun underdog in any of the TvTs.
The only argument you could make is for sOs, who did get knocked out of group stages.
Symbol and Soulkey got knocked out in Bo5, and then Bo3 series.
KangHo lost in the Bo3 group stage. (Besides, KR only gets 5 slots this time)
RorO lost in the Bo1 group stage... but he disappointed badly, going 0-3 in his Up & Down group too.
On August 15 2013 08:19 Popkiller wrote: I'm still blown away by the fact that, aside from innovation, not one player from the S1 finals made it to the S2 finals...
Bo1 Ro32 WCS Korea yo.
Still sad MVP isn't up there. He'd be a fun underdog in any of the TvTs.
The only argument you could make is for sOs, who did get knocked out of group stages.
Symbol and Soulkey got knocked out in Bo5, and then Bo3 series.
KangHo lost in the Bo3 group stage. (Besides, KR only gets 5 slots this time)
RorO lost in the Bo1 group stage... but he disappointed badly, going 0-3 in his Up & Down group too.
And even sOs lost to eventual champion Maru, so you can't say that is going to be different under a Bo3.
Loving these groups!! Have to say Poor Zergs with only two representitives,,,but who can they blame? Very excited to watch these games!~~ Please may the streams be perfect!!~~
Who wins it? Really want Rain, but my head says...THE DUCK!!!!!!~~~
On August 15 2013 08:19 Popkiller wrote: I'm still blown away by the fact that, aside from innovation, not one player from the S1 finals made it to the S2 finals...
Bo1 Ro32 WCS Korea yo.
Still sad MVP isn't up there. He'd be a fun underdog in any of the TvTs.
The only argument you could make is for sOs, who did get knocked out of group stages.
Symbol and Soulkey got knocked out in Bo5, and then Bo3 series.
KangHo lost in the Bo3 group stage. (Besides, KR only gets 5 slots this time)
RorO lost in the Bo1 group stage... but he disappointed badly, going 0-3 in his Up & Down group too.
Oh I was just throwing it out there as a joke, I wasn't being serious.
I think there is a better than 50% chance either Jim and Scarlett advances. Also either one would have a slightly better chance than Welmu for the reason that they can beat anyone in the group, whereas I don't see Welmu beating Rain.
hmm..tough group for Jim :[ really hope him get through anyway ALL THE CHINESE, RAISE YOUR HAND, FORM THE SPIRIT BOMB TO DESTORY EVIL SCARLETT AND MARU
plus, really really really hope MMA make into ro8, for someone known for his abilty to reverse the condition, its your time to make the upset
On August 15 2013 08:38 Papples wrote: D: Maru, Jim still unsure about Maru but I'll give him a chance since he did win WCS Korea. Jim could definitely beat Scarlett and MMA
I hope Jim makes it out more than anyone else, but last time he played Scarlett(last season's challenger league Ro12) he lost 1 - 2.
On August 15 2013 08:38 Papples wrote: D: Maru, Jim still unsure about Maru but I'll give him a chance since he did win WCS Korea. Jim could definitely beat Scarlett and MMA
I hope Jim makes it out more than anyone else, but last time he played Scarlett(last season's challenger league Ro12) he lost 1 - 2.
He lost to her more recently 0-2 in RSL as well. head to head
On August 15 2013 08:00 Abominous wrote: How do people predict First over Bomber and Polt, vP gods, is beyond me...
They somehow forgot Bomber had by far the best vP in WoL with Polt probably being second(and afaik first in Hots).
I'm assuming they didn't watch Bomber dismantle First in the Quarterfinals. Or they're counting on Bomber's law to do some work. I can't even fathom their reasoning behind Polt...
Group A: Rain, Jaedong. MC would be still washing dishes if he didn't jump on the Protoss vacuum early in Sc2. Welmu is by far the worst player in the tournament. Group B: First, Bomber. Grubby is going to be more embarrassed than he was when he got a seed into the GSL. Those games were hilariously sad. Group C: Innovation, Taeja without a doubt. Naniwa wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell against either of the Korean Terrans. Duckdeok is winning the loser's match too. Group D: Maru, MMA. Jim's cheesy style won't get him out of the groups stages in the WCS Finals. He is hyped up to hell now, but his unconventional play isn't going to through anyone in WCS Finals off. Scarlett has the best chance out of any other foreigner to make it out, especially if she can avoid getting eliminated by Jim in the losers round. Why all the Jim hype? His mechanics are well below even foreigners like Naniwa, decision making is very questionable, and even his builds aren't nearly as "revolutionary" as casters make it out to be.
Appart from Group D that's some scary groups there. Can't wait for the games though let's be honest the Europeans are kinda screwed. Descent group for Scarlett though.
Group stage is not about who is better player, it's all about preparation. Players have one week to study opponents, develop a strategy and practice builds. And I am happy, that Bomber has a plenty of info on other players!
On August 15 2013 13:40 Lysanias wrote: Appart from Group D that's some scary groups there. Can't wait for the games though let's be honest the Europeans are kinda screwed. Descent group for Scarlett though.
On August 15 2013 13:40 Lysanias wrote: Appart from Group D that's some scary groups there. Can't wait for the games though let's be honest the Europeans are kinda screwed. Descent group for Scarlett though.
Looks like people still underestimate Maru
I think he meant that there is Scarlett, MMA and Jim
On August 15 2013 22:13 jalen wrote: If Maru still be that cheese against jim, he will be in trouble. Jim is not rain that always try to play safe.
Yeah Jim's chances are looking very very good here. MMA is still terrible against Protoss, Scarlett is most definitely doable and Maru... well, we'll have to see what kind of play style he goes for.
It looks like a hard group to call but I would be surprised if Maru and Jim don't both make it out.
I find it interesting how many people think there will be anything but Koreans in the RO8. Yes, the foreigners have shown some good games, and even managed to win against Koreans now and then. But they're generally the best of the west, playing against Koreans who are mostly past their prime (or have yet to reach a "prime" state), who went to play in AM/EU because they knew they couldn't make it back home. And those Koreans still managed to become AM/EU champs. Now, add to them the death squad of WCS Korea players, and you've got yourselves a tall order for the westerners. Though, to be honest, I could imagine MMA failing to make it through his group on a bad day. But that's about the only non-KR option.
On August 15 2013 22:22 c0ldfusion wrote: JD has been doing poorer against terrans than protoss, and all protoss just means he only needs to prep for one match-up. That ain't too bad.
I think he looked more beatable than usual though JvP definitely improved at WCS NA. I think that he can still pull it off since he only had to practice for 1 match-up but it ain't gonna be easy considering that MC, Welmu and Rain all play a different styles. I actually flavoured Jaedong against Rain more just because Rain is more macro-based as compared to the timing-based and unpredictable style of MC.
Welmu looked out of place tbh unless he can pull off his PvP magic. Rain can potentially be taken out as well considering his tilt in the final as well as suffering a clean loss to Parting in WCG Ro8. The recent Jaedong seemed more deadly in ZvP, his mid game muta switch's style is nasty to play against and his infestors control are probably the best in the business atm. Jaedong really need to improve on his reactions and not build spores only when the phoenix flew into his base.
Considering the fact that WCS Season Final start in a week time, I doubt we will see the balance patch for zergs anytime soon. If by chance that it actually go live, I can see Jaedong crushing his group. Jaedong fighting! I really hope the Tyrant will sweep this tournament so that people will stop calling him Jaekong.
It's funny to see how people underestimate Maru. It's the reigning OSL champion! I predict in D Maru first and MMA second. Overall favorites are Innovation, Rain, Polt and Taeja.
My predictions: Group A : Very hard to say, JD have show to us that he can beat top tier protoss, but rain perhaps is too much. Welmu can beat any toss, but always loses to MC, Rain was the 2nd place at GSL.
I will take Rain and MC (But i am cheering for JD).
Group B: I will take Polt and Bomber(cheering for Grubby).
Group C: This one will be sick. Naniwa is one of the best foregins right now, but innovation still are unbeatable at a long macro game. Taeja is one of the best players in the world and Duck was the WCS champion.
I will take Innovation and Duck (cheering for Naniwa).
Group D This one, i think Scarlett and Maru. I think Scarlett can beat Maru, but will be very hard for her. Also i think Jim doing well in this group. But, my god, this group can not be the group of the dead, but i think will be the best one to watch. Sorry to say that MMA fans, but i can't see he out of this group.
On August 15 2013 22:29 sigm wrote: I find it interesting how many people think there will be anything but Koreans in the RO8. Yes, the foreigners have shown some good games, and even managed to win against Koreans now and then. But they're generally the best of the west, playing against Koreans who are mostly past their prime (or have yet to reach a "prime" state), who went to play in AM/EU because they knew they couldn't make it back home. And those Koreans still managed to become AM/EU champs. Now, add to them the death squad of WCS Korea players, and you've got yourselves a tall order for the westerners. Though, to be honest, I could imagine MMA failing to make it through his group on a bad day. But that's about the only non-KR option.
Polt and Taeja are in prime state. They were code S Ro16 when the switched.
On August 16 2013 03:34 painkilla wrote: Polt and Taeja are in prime state. They were code S Ro16 when the switched.
Exactly, they were Code S. Now they're playing in WCS AM, which is skill-wise barely Code A tier, maybe not even that. And they switched for the same reason as all the other Koreans who went with AM/EU - they knew they won't get anything done at home, or even if they could, it would take a lot more work than in those two regions. And I don't think that a player going from a harder tournament to an easier one and doing good there shows that they're in prime state.
On August 16 2013 03:34 painkilla wrote: Polt and Taeja are in prime state. They were code S Ro16 when the switched.
Exactly, they were Code S. Now they're playing in WCS AM, which is skill-wise barely Code A tier, maybe not even that. And they switched for the same reason as all the other Koreans who went with AM/EU - they knew they won't get anything done at home, or even if they could, it would take a lot more work than in those two regions. And I don't think that a player going from a harder tournament to an easier one and doing good there shows that they're in prime state.
There are certainly many people switch for that reason, but I don't think it's true for either Taeja or Polt. Taeja is on TL which I'm sure is a great part of the reason why he chose NA region, and Polt is actually staying in NA to study so makes even more sense.
so this might be slightly off-topic but i wonder: I'm planning on going to Gamescom on Friday or Sunday. Will I be able to watch some games in the audience or do I need something else other than the Gamescom ticket? I apologize if this is the wrong place and / or a stupid question but I kinda want to make sure I'm not disappointed when I get there :p
On August 16 2013 03:34 painkilla wrote: Polt and Taeja are in prime state. They were code S Ro16 when the switched.
Exactly, they were Code S. Now they're playing in WCS AM, which is skill-wise barely Code A tier, maybe not even that. And they switched for the same reason as all the other Koreans who went with AM/EU - they knew they won't get anything done at home, or even if they could, it would take a lot more work than in those two regions. And I don't think that a player going from a harder tournament to an easier one and doing good there shows that they're in prime state.
Are you seriously arguing that Polt and TaeJa aren't Code S caliber players? Is that really what is happening here?
On August 16 2013 03:34 painkilla wrote: Polt and Taeja are in prime state. They were code S Ro16 when the switched.
Exactly, they were Code S. Now they're playing in WCS AM, which is skill-wise barely Code A tier, maybe not even that. And they switched for the same reason as all the other Koreans who went with AM/EU - they knew they won't get anything done at home, or even if they could, it would take a lot more work than in those two regions. And I don't think that a player going from a harder tournament to an easier one and doing good there shows that they're in prime state.
On August 16 2013 03:34 painkilla wrote: Polt and Taeja are in prime state. They were code S Ro16 when the switched.
Exactly, they were Code S. Now they're playing in WCS AM, which is skill-wise barely Code A tier, maybe not even that. And they switched for the same reason as all the other Koreans who went with AM/EU - they knew they won't get anything done at home, or even if they could, it would take a lot more work than in those two regions. And I don't think that a player going from a harder tournament to an easier one and doing good there shows that they're in prime state.
That's still rubbish though Polt and TaeJa will both go far in this tournament, or at least have great chances to do so. Mvp was code B and probably washed up in your eyes, yet he still made the semis and took innovation to an awesome 5 game series. ForGG did well and crushed sOs. Taeja and Polt are comfortably better than both those two players. They will perform just fine, doesn't matter that they are not in Korea lol.
On August 16 2013 06:15 MasterOfPuppets wrote: Are you seriously arguing that Polt and TaeJa aren't Code S caliber players? Is that really what is happening here?
What I'm saying is that they both were Code S level before the switch. Most likely they wouldn't have won it, but still, a pretty great achievement nonetheless. Then they both switch over to a weaker tournament and do well there, surprising absolutely nobody. Some people might interpret that as them still being in their prime, or even getting better somehow. I don't. I think that both of them are past their prime by now based on results of more than just this one tournament, and if you'd put them back into WCS KR, they'd have a much harder time than before due to diminished skill level. I might be underestimating them, but that's how I see it.
On August 16 2013 14:01 AxionSteel wrote: Polt and TaeJa will both go far in this tournament, or at least have great chances to do so.
I agree with this, as they are still reasonably good players, and certainly above any westerners. I'd even give them good chances to beat the EU playing Koreans. I'm certain they'll get out of their groups, I just don't think they'll be able to keep up against the WCS KR squad, that's all.
On August 16 2013 06:15 MasterOfPuppets wrote: Are you seriously arguing that Polt and TaeJa aren't Code S caliber players? Is that really what is happening here?
What I'm saying is that they both were Code S level before the switch. Most likely they wouldn't have won it, but still, a pretty great achievement nonetheless. Then they both switch over to a weaker tournament and do well there, surprising absolutely nobody. Some people might interpret that as them still being in their prime, or even getting better somehow. I don't. I think that both of them are past their prime by now based on results of more than just this one tournament, and if you'd put them back into WCS KR, they'd have a much harder time than before due to diminished skill level. I might be underestimating them, but that's how I see it.
Based on results of more than just this one tournament? You realize that even disregarding WCS AM completely, TaeJa has won Assembly and HomeStory Cup, while Polt has won MLG? All three of which quite recent events, needless to say.
Anyway we'll see come WCS finals where they stand.
On August 17 2013 00:05 sigm wrote: I agree with this, as they are still reasonably good players, and certainly above any westerners. I'd even give them good chances to beat the EU playing Koreans. I'm certain they'll get out of their groups, I just don't think they'll be able to keep up against the WCS KR squad, that's all.
If Polt gets out of his group, he will have beaten First or Bomber, or both of them.
On August 16 2013 06:15 MasterOfPuppets wrote: Are you seriously arguing that Polt and TaeJa aren't Code S caliber players? Is that really what is happening here?
What I'm saying is that they both were Code S level before the switch. Most likely they wouldn't have won it, but still, a pretty great achievement nonetheless. Then they both switch over to a weaker tournament and do well there, surprising absolutely nobody. Some people might interpret that as them still being in their prime, or even getting better somehow. I don't. I think that both of them are past their prime by now based on results of more than just this one tournament, and if you'd put them back into WCS KR, they'd have a much harder time than before due to diminished skill level. I might be underestimating them, but that's how I see it.
On August 16 2013 14:01 AxionSteel wrote: Polt and TaeJa will both go far in this tournament, or at least have great chances to do so.
I agree with this, as they are still reasonably good players, and certainly above any westerners. I'd even give them good chances to beat the EU playing Koreans. I'm certain they'll get out of their groups, I just don't think they'll be able to keep up against the WCS KR squad, that's all.
I think that's a really terrible assessment of their skill, but we'll see I guess.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oJwstsa.png)
MC vs 
Jaedong
Polt vs 
MC vs 
Jaedong?
