On August 13 2013 04:35 Aquila- wrote:
Viper with full energy is ridiculous, they want to make mech better but 3 vipers can already shut down 20 spread out tanks...

This. They're incredibly effective without requiring much to use.

Insoleet

France1806 Posts

August 13 2013 06:59 GMT

#622

For the viper, what about slowing down the units under the cloud ?

This way, its not a buff against mech (which is already slow)
But it's a huge buff vs bioball and protoss. And viper would mix way better with ultralisks and banelings.

What do you think ?

Deckkie

Netherlands1595 Posts

August 13 2013 07:02 GMT

#623

On August 13 2013 15:59 Insoleet wrote:
For the viper, what about slowing down the units under the cloud ?

This way, its not a buff against mech (which is already slow)
But it's a huge buff vs bioball and protoss. And viper would mix way better with ultralisks and banelings.

What do you think ?

Im afraid that the Viper would mix a little too well with banelings. It is already pretty tight to micro against them, if your units are slowed as well it might turrn out too hard to battle against.

GoldenH

1115 Posts

August 13 2013 07:03 GMT

#624

Sounds increasingly unplayable to me... separate upgrades is the only thing that balances BC, and there is so little point to bother with micro or setting up your units in a good concave when abduct/cloud is available. Overseer buff is largely irrelevant, though I would probably prefer seeing changeling boosted, perhaps making its speed faster before morph.

Whitewing

United States7483 Posts

August 13 2013 07:04 GMT

#625

That's what the infestor is for, just make those.

Dwayn

Germany949 Posts

August 13 2013 07:06 GMT

#626

The fact that they have to spell out that "TvZ feels quite balanced" means it isn't. The overlord speed is nice, but not enough. The viper buff is just stupid.

Insoleet

France1806 Posts

August 13 2013 07:06 GMT

#627

On August 13 2013 16:04 Whitewing wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's what the infestor is for, just make those.

Yes, it overlaps a bit with the viper. But zerg really need more army controll spell. Slowing units is not rooting units, so I dont think it overlaps this much.
The cloud doesnt hit air, too. Fungle is more of an all-around spell, whereas cloud would be a very strong anti-ground.

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

August 13 2013 07:10 GMT

#628

I don't see the Mech changes actually making viable in TvP. Boosting the Viper in such a manner only really means that Zerg will have their key anti-mech Unit that much faster. So I don't see this working out.

I really wish Blizzard could do something about the split-map mass static defense scenarios we often see with late-game Zerg.

jackslater

Russian Federation604 Posts

August 13 2013 07:13 GMT

#629

nice changes, need to test))

11B

United States188 Posts

August 13 2013 07:32 GMT

#630

Seeing how lots of people think WMs dealing multiple damages to different races is bad how about keeping it simple as some others have already suggested?

Decrease the WMs range to 3. After all, it's a mine and shouldn't have > range than units such as Roach/Hydra (w/out upgrades). It's strength should be vs. people who have lack of detection. Even with Overseers and a potential Overseer speed increase a 5 range WM still has soooooooooo much potential to damage enormous amounts of Zerg units. And that's with a single mine lol.

Thoughts?

Thezzy

Netherlands2117 Posts

August 13 2013 07:32 GMT

#631

Why not have the Viper cloud vision block stick to Biological units for 2-3 seconds after they leave the cloud, but make it only 50% effective against Mechanical units.
That way a quick mobile force will remain affect a little longer, but mech units won't instantly be turned useless.

Pandemona

Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts

August 13 2013 07:46 GMT

#632

Buff all the units. Haha, i actually like all 3 changes for once, hope for success on the beta maps

Everlong

Czech Republic1973 Posts

August 13 2013 07:55 GMT

#633

Do we know when those test maps are going to be avaiable? I'm really interested in those changes, especially Terran upgrades.

TaShadan

Germany1978 Posts

August 13 2013 07:56 GMT

#634

On August 13 2013 16:10 Incognoto wrote:
I really wish Blizzard could do something about the split-map mass static defense scenarios we often see with late-game Zerg.

This will never happen, because they would have to change more than just balance.

VeTerrAn1

Switzerland39 Posts

August 13 2013 07:59 GMT

#635

Its funny how many ppl are against the mech/sky buff. Always a lot of players bm me, because they say only MMM so boring and you have no skill blablabla ... and now if we would get a viable alternative, all of the zergs and tosses vote against this

its funny. Also hard because terran is the race with the fewest players overall. so its only logic that this will be the closest vote ...looking forward to test it, hope it will work out well, if not i will also vote against, but we should test it before negate in advance

on the other hand, i guess viper with full energy is too powerful, but i feel that half of energy is suitable and will also have an good impact on the viper use, so the zerg can handle the"buffed" mech of terrans better, seems to be a good decision, otherwise if only the viper gets a buff, terran has no need to play mech in tvz, and then we have always the Marine/Mine play style ... we ll see how it works on the testmap

i m very satisfied with this possible changes over all.

Willzzz

United Kingdom774 Posts

August 13 2013 07:59 GMT

#636

On August 13 2013 16:32 11B wrote:
Seeing how lots of people think WMs dealing multiple damages to different races is bad how about keeping it simple as some others have already suggested?

Decrease the WMs range to 3. After all, it's a mine and shouldn't have > range than units such as Roach/Hydra (w/out upgrades). It's strength should be vs. people who have lack of detection. Even with Overseers and a potential Overseer speed increase a 5 range WM still has soooooooooo much potential to damage enormous amounts of Zerg units. And that's with a single mine lol.

Thoughts?

Thing is that they already very easy to spot without detection, with such a small range you could just walk around them. You'd only be able to use them in tight chokes.

The delay in attack really counters their range, if they had a shorter range they'd need to be an instant attack.

Most zergs are scary good at dealing with mines whether they have detection or not, it's only when their concentration wanes that they take damage.

emanresU

Germany393 Posts

August 13 2013 08:00 GMT

#637

I think maxing out the viper contradicts the concept of buffing mech, also i think i would influence ZvP lategame pretty badly because pulling important units could be done even easier. it doesn't even take that long to max out on energy anyways because of the consume ability. I like the mech buff though ad do thnk that the overseer buff ins very senseful as well.

ReMinD_

Croatia846 Posts

August 13 2013 08:18 GMT

#638

Standard Blizzard. Beating around the bush. It's like they are playing completely different game.

And I fail to see how TvZ is exciting to watch. Yeah, it's exciting... the first 10 times you see it. After that it just becomes stupid. Every single game is played out in same way.

Overseer buff - might help a bit with Muta harass. Doesn't help with core issue. Fix the Widow Mine already. Put the damage cap on splash damage, reduce it's radius, whatever, just nerf it already.

Upgrade merge - doesn't fix the core issues of mech. It's slow, boring and easily countered. And bio is just so much more powerful than mech in every aspect of the game. You'd have to be a masochist to consider going mech as long as bio is available.

KOtical

Germany451 Posts

August 13 2013 08:39 GMT

#639

so fungal + blinding cloud = nothing can ever escape... not a good idea imo

Ramiz1989

12124 Posts

August 13 2013 08:48 GMT

#640

I don't think that we should go that far. That being said, I think that Viper with full energy is overkill, half energy will be just enough, but also make Blinding Cloud affect Widow Mines! That is the main reason why Bio is so strong, because of the combination with Widow Mines. If you add the way to counter Widow Mines, it will be a lot better, and Vipers will find their use in ZvT when T goes for Bio + Mines(most of the time). And that way, we will see Terrans being more active with their Widow Mines, they won't just burrow them in the middle of the fight and leave them there, and they will have to spread them.

I feel this is better solution then what they are trying to do.