Some people clearly didn't read the full post. The mech buff is for other match ups primarily, so buffing the viper doesn't work against what they're trying to achieve.

Anybody complaining about the HT upgrade being removed and asking questions about the viper buff is clutching at straws. The difference between a HT coming straight out of the gateway and being able to do massive damage with storms, is different from a support unit that is about to cast blinding cloud and abduct. I'm not saying that the change is right or wrong, but don't simplify the argument by making connections that don't really represent the argument.

Personally I think the change to Vipers could be a good one. Essentially all it does is increase the rate at which they're able to get to full energy by about 15 seconds. People are forgetting they are the only unit that can generate energy by siphoning buildings. They are not the same as other spellcasters in this way, so they really can't be compared to the same rule set as units like HT and infestors.

Not sure I agree on the armor upgrades sharing with air but I also don't think it'll cause a massive problem. I feel like Terran is doing alright at the moment, but if it keeps the game interesting then I don't see it particularly being overpowered. I certainly don't think the single Viking that will be travelling around in ZvT is something to worry about.

As all changes, wait and see. And most of all, think before comparing units that don't share the same mechanics. Vipers can max out energy in like 15 seconds anyway, its not as major as people are crying about.

Taefox

1533 Posts

August 13 2013 05:01 GMT

#603

On August 13 2013 12:02 Arceus wrote:
Not again, they are making modifications by making the game easier YET AGAIN

And I dont see full energy out of the box viper is any good. If any, it saves zergs sometimes from sucking energy task (yeah even less things to do in sc2). A larger cloud radius would be better. Ive seen zerg doing 3, 4 clouds at once and the protoss nullified all that with one single blink in

Larger radius of blinding cloud ? It's more OP than full energy thing lol

hansonslee

United States2027 Posts

August 13 2013 05:02 GMT

#604

How about buffing the infestors to allow the zerg to deal with the hyper aggressive MMMM ball? Maybe a slight increase in projectile speed?

Overseers are not a bad idea, but infestors, I think, have much more utility, and it sucks how they are completely useless atm.

WombaT

Northern Ireland26430 Posts

August 13 2013 05:03 GMT

#605

Would be interested to see how TvP develops, with at least the potential for simultaneous upgrading of Vikings and Hellbats giving a little room in experimentation in that regard. As it is P tend to have a pretty big upgrade lead even over the bio, never mind the additional separate upgrades you need to keep up with both air and vehicle ups.

Crankyhobo

United States12 Posts

August 13 2013 05:08 GMT

#606

"we think the only place terran might not be OP is late against protoss, so we're buffing that, JUST IN CASE"

vipers are retarded, widow mines are broken, game-play sucks, you cant fix this with an overlord speed buff.

What will it take before somebody admits there's a problem. No zergs in round of 32?

FallDownMarigold

United States3710 Posts

August 13 2013 05:20 GMT

#607

On August 13 2013 04:35 Aquila- wrote:
Viper with full energy is ridiculous, they want to make mech better but 3 vipers can already shut down 20 spread out tanks...

Fortunately T and P dont get vipers, so maybe mech is better in TvT and TvP with that change. It's not the same as mech being better across the board in all MU, but it's at least mech being better in 2/3 MU with that change

mongoose22

174 Posts

August 13 2013 05:20 GMT

#608

On August 13 2013 06:04 Big J wrote:

Show nested quote +

Also it's much easier to do balancewise. Say a unit that is extensively being used in every matchup is overpowered. Are you going to destroy every playstyle ever figured by nerfing that unit, or do you give the other races the tools to deal with it/those playstyle?

You nerf the unit. Easy. Much less development and testing time needed for a potential fix, much less disruption to the game's balance as a whole. Cutting off the head of the beast is the most direct way to balance if something is clearly overpowered; making more powerful counters can easily result in just having multiple overpowered elements. Continuous buffing is the very definition of power creep.

ETisME

12700 Posts

August 13 2013 05:20 GMT

#609

Honestly I don't think the viper change is gonna matter much other than hitting on mech (which wouldn't be that big of a difference since zerg always charge up the viper anyway)
It's impact on ZvP is questionable, it might be better but HT can now one shot viper as they spawn now

freakhill

Japan463 Posts

August 13 2013 05:58 GMT

#610

Those little *spotfix* changes are no good. What zergs need is a lot more option to make the game a lot more exciting and giving ways to outplay your opponent and playing aggressive, punishing greedy play, without going allin (roaches gets shittier and shittier).

Simple buffs that wouldnt be statbuff and go in that direction would be things like, 50/50 burrow, hatch-tech cheaper drop research, hydra-range as base, cheaper upgrades, one upgrade to remove the nydus gas cost and the huge scream if the nydus is not scouted. Things like that.

Also, do away with the swarm host, that unit is disgraceful :|

papaz

Sweden4149 Posts

August 13 2013 06:07 GMT

#611

Until I see mech on pro level I am not convinced.

But I like these changes!

Griffith`

714 Posts

August 13 2013 06:20 GMT

#612

You can't mech in TvP even with this change, there are way too many counters to it.

Protoss air roflstomps every mech unit. Voidrays deals over 9000 damage to anything armored. Tempests deal +massive damage to thors. Carriers just rofl stomp over everything. Add to that immortals, etc. and it's beyond stupid. At best there will be MMM+Thor+ghost, but that'd be about it.

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

August 13 2013 06:22 GMT

#613

I do hope we see more mech tvt now though.

Kowai01

United States8 Posts

August 13 2013 06:23 GMT

#614

The idea i think behind the Viper change since everyone seems to be whining about it is that they pop out and aren't useful right away now full energy might be a bit overkill but i do think that maybe giving them a buff to get them on Hook shot instead of NOTHING is good or even maybe add an Hive upgrade that is much like Pathogen Glands that starts them with that amount of energy. Because until you have enough energy for Clouds or the Hook shot vipers are dead weight and a lot of protoss and Terran timings are built to hit right before the 11-12 mark where zerg can get vipers energy in conjuction with the Roach Hydra to deal with Colo Ball based army. Full energy yes is overkill but a buff would see some positive results including new meta-game shifts for all vZ match-ups. Also remember these changes aren't final and most likly wont make it even into the game (as is maybe in another way) so chill

Blisse

Canada3710 Posts

August 13 2013 06:26 GMT

#615

honestly as a zerg player, i just want something that does splash damage that isn't a baneling :/ it's not that the roles don't overlap, it's that i have to HOPE for a baneling mine to not be scanned, rather than me being able to force a situation in which my splash damage will kill them, because i have to deal with splitting marines, kiting MMM and widow mines when i just bumrush my opponent with ling/bling, none of which is really in my control. i hate being so passive and unable to force things on my terms until ultralisks (in which again I just bumrush them and hope they don't have enough micro to both kill the incoming banelings and run away from the ultralisk cleave. ugh. rant.

i wish there was a focus on making the game more enjoyable and entertaining to watch too rather than just pure balance all the time.

Lobotomist

United States1541 Posts

August 13 2013 06:33 GMT

#616

overseer buff, yes. That sounds good (so you can keep them with mutas a bit more effectively. The other two buffs...seem dumb. Late game sky terran is already freaking impossible to deal with as zerg, this will make it even better. Viper energy just makes them come out faster, which definitely shuts down certain protoss timings (i'd think...)

Bluejava

Sweden135 Posts

August 13 2013 06:33 GMT

#617

How are you supposed to beat mech in TvT as bio if they continue like this.
Mech is already looking fine but why do they insist on making mech working against all matchups like TvP for example. It just turns the matchup into the most boring thing to play and look at.

Raambo11

United States828 Posts

August 13 2013 06:34 GMT

#618

On August 13 2013 14:20 FallDownMarigold wrote:

Show nested quote +

Mech is awful in TVP, basically has been since the start of the game.

Nerski

United States1095 Posts

August 13 2013 06:40 GMT

#619

Vipers at full energy will be likely to strong, but that can always be dialed back.

Overseer upgrade seems likely to eventually go in, as that'd alleviate at least the problem of babysitting a unit you 100% have to have vs widow mines a little bit. I see no reason the buff would affect ZvP or ZvZ all that much, other then with speed contaminate could be more often doable, which may actually be interesting.

T buff I'm on the fence as to what exactly the outcome will end up being.