On August 13 2013 02:13 Canucklehead wrote: Terrible to hear leenock hasn't be paid either. The winner should always be paid first before all others!
the private contractors who helped make the show possible should be paid first. please see post 4 up from here.
I mean in terms of prize money. People like scarlett got paid ahead of leenock, though she had to work for that money by pestering david ting on twitter a bunch.
true, not exactly the right way to run a league. the fact that the squeekiest wheels are the ones getting paid makes IPL look like scum buckets.
Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person. Business is business ethical or not. People need to stop sucking Leenock's dick and get to the real matter. Where Is the money, how much, and who has accounts receivable with IPL on that listing.
I don't see why anyone should blame David Ting for this.
I talked to him this morning myself and I'm very appreciative that the man, who no longer has any affiliation with IGN or Ziff Davis, is repeatedly stepping in on behalf of players and staff in efforts to rectify past situations.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person. Business is business ethical or not. People need to stop sucking Leenock's dick and get to the real matter. Where Is the money, how much, and who has accounts receivable with IPL on that listing.
I wouldn't even argue "fairness". Leenock is pretty popular. Not paying Leenock can get a lot of people quite upset. Ex: unknown pro owed 1,000 vs unknown pro owed 5,000. Definitely pay unknown pro who is owed 1,000 first.
Take a well-known pro and the variables have changed.
BUT, I suspect IPL filed for bankruptcy. In which case, I know zilch about bankruptcy laws.
On August 12 2013 03:52 partydude89 wrote: so since blizzard hired the IPL guys, does this mean that blizzard has to pay out the prize money?
ROFL, hey blizzard, you know some of the people you hired used to work at a company that hasn't paid out it's debts. You mind picking up the tab?
edit: one of the stupidest conclusions I've ever seen someone jump to in my entire life.
its actually not a stupid question. there are a details that need to be known but legally the liability of blizzard is possible under corporate law if blizz acquired IPL via an M&A...
On August 13 2013 02:13 Canucklehead wrote: Terrible to hear leenock hasn't be paid either. The winner should always be paid first before all others!
the private contractors who helped make the show possible should be paid first. please see post 4 up from here.
I mean in terms of prize money. People like scarlett got paid ahead of leenock, though she had to work for that money by pestering david ting on twitter a bunch.
true, not exactly the right way to run a league. the fact that the squeekiest wheels are the ones getting paid makes IPL look like scum buckets.
While i think what is going on is wrong, sometimes you have to freaking squeek for your stuff, if you expect others doing it for you, good luck.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person.
That's not true. There's a priority list of creditors who are to be paid first when a company goes under/bankrupt. It's not based on paying the least amount of debt first. It just so happens prize money winners are very far down the priority list so they're some of the last people to be paid. You're going to tell me a company is going to pay off a bunch of small debts over paying off secured creditors first who are owed more? According to your logic they would. Screw secured creditors. They're owed too much. Must pay off the least amount of debt first and work our way up! Gotta make 10 people happy over 1 secured creditor! Sorry, but that's not how it works in the real world.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person.
That's not true. There's a priority list of creditors who are to be paid first when a company goes under/bankrupt. It's not based on paying the least amount of debt first. It just so happens prize money winners are very far down the priority list so they're some of the last people to be paid. You're going to tell me a company is going to pay off a bunch of small debts over paying off secured creditors first who are owed more?
This is an important point.
Relatedly, does anyone know if gamers receive any sort of assurances other than verbal promises regarding the terms and conditions of tournaments they enter? It may be the case that these poor kids have little or no legal recourse to claim their prizes.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person.
That's not true. There's a priority list of creditors who are to be paid first when a company goes under/bankrupt. It's not based on paying the least amount of debt first. It just so happens prize money winners are very far down the priority list so they're some of the last people to be paid. You're going to tell me a company is going to pay off a bunch of small debts over paying off secured creditors first who are owed more?
This is an important point.
Relatedly, does anyone know if gamers receive any sort of assurances other than verbal promises regarding the terms and conditions of tournaments they enter? It may be the case that these poor kids have little or no legal recourse to claim their prizes.
I assume there's some sort of player contract when they sign up... right?
On August 12 2013 03:52 partydude89 wrote: so since blizzard hired the IPL guys, does this mean that blizzard has to pay out the prize money?
ROFL, hey blizzard, you know some of the people you hired used to work at a company that hasn't paid out it's debts. You mind picking up the tab?
edit: one of the stupidest conclusions I've ever seen someone jump to in my entire life.
Was that edit really necessary? I'm not a legal guy by any means, and i wasn't sure what happens to a companies debt when it gets absorbed by another company. no need to call me stupid
you do realize that IPL isnt really a company right? IPL stands for IGN ProLeague; its just an event put on by IGN IGN is NOT out of business and bought/absorbed by blizzard. im not a legal guy either, but this is just putting 2and2 together.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person.
That's not true. There's a priority list of creditors who are to be paid first when a company goes under/bankrupt. It's not based on paying the least amount of debt first. It just so happens prize money winners are very far down the priority list so they're some of the last people to be paid. You're going to tell me a company is going to pay off a bunch of small debts over paying off secured creditors first who are owed more?
This is an important point.
Relatedly, does anyone know if gamers receive any sort of assurances other than verbal promises regarding the terms and conditions of tournaments they enter? It may be the case that these poor kids have little or no legal recourse to claim their prizes.
Some people may not know this but verbal agreements are actually legally binding. The reason why people usually go for written ones is that they are easier to prove in court. I doubt their would be a problem with the prize money of a tournament since there were so many people that were witnesses to the promise of a prize.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person.
That's not true. There's a priority list of creditors who are to be paid first when a company goes under/bankrupt. It's not based on paying the least amount of debt first. It just so happens prize money winners are very far down the priority list so they're some of the last people to be paid. You're going to tell me a company is going to pay off a bunch of small debts over paying off secured creditors first who are owed more? According to your logic they would. Screw secured creditors. They're owed too much. Must pay off the least amount of debt first and work our way up! Gotta make 10 people happy over 1 secured creditor! Sorry, but that's not how it works in the real world.
Yes, but you still need to represent that you have a claim. If you don’t make one, no on knows it is out there. There is a pecking order in who gets paid and I have no idea where prize money works into it that, but it is likely not first or even second in line.
On August 13 2013 03:42 Avean wrote: Its a bit worrying considering the prizes in SC2 are very little compared to games like Dota 2 where millions of $ are given out.
Once a year and it has nothing to do with the subject or the state of SC2.
On August 12 2013 03:52 partydude89 wrote: so since blizzard absorbed IPL, does this mean that blizzard has to pay out the prize money?
No. IGN is still a company and owes the debt, while IPL assets like staff, technicians, equipment were bought by Blizzard, but they are not viable for the debt.
it depends on the contract of course but most likely it's blizzard that owes the money. When you buy up anything you usually buy up its debts as well. If you buy a house as a private individual you are also the one who owes any outstanding bank fees or debts. Which is why buying the "1 dollar houses" without proper lawyer assessment is so risky.
On August 13 2013 02:27 nuogaiyen wrote: Though it may seem "unfair", its common that you pay the least amount of debt first, working your way up, I'm sure they would rather make more people happy rather than pull 40k out of their ass to pay one person.
That's not true. There's a priority list of creditors who are to be paid first when a company goes under/bankrupt. It's not based on paying the least amount of debt first. It just so happens prize money winners are very far down the priority list so they're some of the last people to be paid. You're going to tell me a company is going to pay off a bunch of small debts over paying off secured creditors first who are owed more? According to your logic they would. Screw secured creditors. They're owed too much. Must pay off the least amount of debt first and work our way up! Gotta make 10 people happy over 1 secured creditor! Sorry, but that's not how it works in the real world.
Thanks for repeating what I said on the initial post on page 14, 3rd post. This is assuming all creditors are paid. Please don't talk to me like I'm some retard.
On August 13 2013 00:08 nuogaiyen wrote: I agree with those that proposed Blizzard only purchased the human capital from IPL, with those designers, casters etc out of a job, Blizzard decided to offer them a job. Not intending to take the IPL name and restarting the tournaments with those same positions. I think if Blizzard decided to purchase IPL as a whole company they would have to take along the assets as well as the debt. Human intelligence is a intangible asset, so if you figure IPL sold those "assets" it wouldn't reduce the debt because they earn wages. Wages payable would only come to a stop. This is just my opinion but I don't think anyone is going to get paid, honestly. If a company goes bankrupt you think the shareholders get their money back. Hell no. If IPL were to sell its assets, it's the loaners who get their money back first, if any (bank loans). Everyone else is left for dead. It's unfortunate it had to happen like this but this stuff happens all the time. It's been since 2012, the money's long gone.
Most of you are probably too young to remember, but this is sadly common in the e-sports scene. I've been following esports for 10+ yrs, since cs 1.6. And the CPL(google it) screwed several high-profile teams when they went out of business. Held their biggest event ever, then went out of business(sound familiar) It's part of the game, and while unfair organizations like KESPA are the anwser IMHO.
EPT
common in the e-sports scene. I've been following esports for 10+ yrs, since cs 1.6. And the CPL(google it) screwed several high-profile teams when they went out of business. Held their biggest event ever, then went out of business(sound familiar) It's part of the game, and while unfair organizations like KESPA are the anwser IMHO.
