|
On August 01 2013 01:25 Mayhemia- wrote:
I don't think it would be good to let Scarlett take part, she would win by a mile. Which wouldn't be good for women's league especially, if people started shouting "look there's a man winning ladies tournaments". Which shouldn't happen, but people are idiots.
Given she played in GSTL and the tourney is coordinated by ESF and "sponsored" by Blizzard,
they would have to be imbeciles to casue s***storm in foreign community by rejecting her.
|
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
|
Cool! I hope the next big thing will be a male, blond hair, green eyes, 11 toes Starcraft II League. Because that is as much needed as a female esports league.
|
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
|
the question is to know why would scarlett be interested by this minor league lol
|
On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Things like this should definitely have great players like scarlett in the picture.
|
On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
Nope. The more skilled female gamers they show the better.
Otherwise we will end up with more topics about how girls are picked to teams for looks than for skill,
therefore further "promoting" stereotypes.
On August 01 2013 01:46 E.L.V.I.S wrote:
the question is to know why would scarlett be interested by this minor league lol
PR + promoting female gamers
|
On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
I couldn't name 10 UK pro's either. But that didn't stop tournaments happening and being fun to watch.
|
On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports.
Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation for female-exclusive tournies.
|
On August 01 2013 01:53 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation female-exclusive tournies.
That's not the only motivation. A lot fo the time people push for women's leagues for these types of things because in an incredibly male dominated environment its difficult for women to feel comfortable enough to want to play the game. If you want a somewhat more mainstream example you can look at female only chess leagues, which are quite common.
|
On August 01 2013 01:46 E.L.V.I.S wrote:
the question is to know why would scarlett be interested by this minor league lol
Free money ? Anyway i doubt they would let her qualify and she probably know it, the olympics doesnt let transgender qualify since its kinda unfair for the others.
|
On August 01 2013 01:56 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:53 Empirimancer wrote:On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation female-exclusive tournies. That's not the only motivation. A lot fo the time people push for women's leagues for these types of things because in an incredibly male dominated environment its difficult for women to feel comfortable enough to want to play the game. If you want a somewhat more mainstream example you can look at female only chess leagues, which are quite common.
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
|
This seems a bit weird to me. In "real" sports, physical attributes play a part in performance so I can understand the need for a separate women's league.. but in ESPORTS theoretically everyone should be on the same level? Unless someone thinks that men and women can't think and click buttons on the same level.. but that is opening a really really really large can of worms :p
Seperately, on the issue of Scarlett...I think trans women are allowed to partake in womens' sports in some cases. I remember there was a trans woman boxer who competed with natural females. Obviously there is some controversy there over whether or not the trans boxer has an advantage or not. But for ESPORTS I don't think that's an issue. I say let everyone compete.
|
And yes, I will capitalize ESPORTS every time :p
|
On August 01 2013 01:25 Mayhemia- wrote:
I don't think it would be good to let Scarlett take part, she would win by a mile. Which wouldn't be good for women's league especially, if people started shouting "look there's a man winning ladies tournaments". Which shouldn't happen, but people are idiots.
"People don't agree with me; they are idiots."
I'm mixed about this entire thing. On one hand I think it'll be cool for female gamers to get exposure and viewers/fans that aren't just spamming their stream with "boobs or gtfo," plus there is a precedent for stuff like this in real sports with women's leagues. On the other hand, the reason why real sports segregate is because (excluding the outliers) men have different physical limits than women do and it would be unfair and in some sports unsafe to place the two against one another. With e-sports, the biological limits on either sex are pretty much non-existent so I don't really see the necessity for a woman's league.
....I also think there are far too many leagues already...but that's neither here nor there.
|
|
|
On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
Here you go; 15 on the list with a team and 4 female SC2 squads.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene
Considering that IESF wants to run Starcraft2 for women only this year, it is a discipline worth giving it a shot.
Naturally a "Randsportart" due to the demographics of gamers but hey.
|
On August 01 2013 02:15 BelleNOiR wrote:
Well she was born with male physiognomy, chemistry and the way her brain works. Despite how she feels "inside", she has the capabilities of a male. Every physician in the world will tell you this. So I don't think they'd let her play. (To mods: no disrespect intended, facts are facts).
The chemistry in the way that her brain works likely more closely resembles the average female, thus leading to feelings of gender dysphoria. Also if she is on HRT (quite common for trangendered people) then he physiognomy and body chemistry are also more like the average woman. Its more complicated than you think.
|
On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:56 packrat386 wrote:On August 01 2013 01:53 Empirimancer wrote:On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation female-exclusive tournies. That's not the only motivation. A lot fo the time people push for women's leagues for these types of things because in an incredibly male dominated environment its difficult for women to feel comfortable enough to want to play the game. If you want a somewhat more mainstream example you can look at female only chess leagues, which are quite common. Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
And Judith Polgar is still allowed to compete in them. She just preferes not to. With the same reasoning, you could ban LoWely from belarussian or NightEnD from romanian tournaments.
|
The reason females can't compete with males in StarCraft is very similar to the reason that non-Koreans can't really compete with Koreans (on the whole).
There are several factors... it's typically more accepted for males to play video games than it is for females. Just like video games are more popular in Korea than Europe or NA. As a result you find the average Korean and male are better than the average non-Korean and female.
But with practice, anyone can compete. Players like Naniwa who train as hard as Koreans often make it very far into tournaments. I don't think there's any inherent difference in women that prohibits them from being as good at StarCraft.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
