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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AVydK7I.jpg)
For what I understand, it will starts August 9th 2013 on AfrecaTV.
On July 31 2013 19:47 Chexx wrote:
It will start on 9th August. Broadcasted every week on Saturday and Sunday evenings.
Translation by dearyuna :
+ Show Spoiler +The domestic female starleague, which post-2006 had been discontinued, is being revived. StartaleTV, through the newly running ESTV, is announcing plans for a Woman Starcraft® II League (WSL) for Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm.
SGATE, the corporation that runs ESTV, announced that the month-long scheduled WSL will begin on August 9th, 2013 on afreecaTV. This tournament, whose title sponsor is AfreecaTV, will be produced and organized by ESTV. Blizzard Entertainment & the esports leagues will also be sponsoring this event.
Registrations for this event will begin on the 30th from 9:00PM, and applications will be received until the 5th of next month (August 5th.) Brackets are planned to be announced on the 6th. For the hopeful applicants wishing to participate, please email startale01@gmail.com with the following statements: Name, Battlenet ID, Battlenet Account, Race, Contact Information.
Translation by Furong:
+ Show Spoiler +The Women's Starleague will return to Korea after being on hiatus since 2006. ESTV, run by Startale TV, is proud to announce the return of the Starcraft II HOTS WSL (Woman's Starcraft League).
It was announced that starting from the 8th/9th of August, the WSL will be hosted monthly on Afrika TV. With Afrika TV as the main sponsor, ESTV will organise and run the event in coordination with Blizzard Entertainment and ESF.
ESTV plans to run the league starting from the second half of 2013 and into 2014. The league will commence on the weekend of August 8th/9th, and games will be broadcast on Saturday and Sunday evenings KST.
Women interested in participating can contact startale01@gmail.com. Please list your name, Bnet ID, Bnet account, race and contact information.
 WSL
Prize pool :
+ Show Spoiler +1500000korean won == 1400 $
Brackets :
+ Show Spoiler +
Stream Links :
AFAIK, no english stream
http://player.afreeca.com/estv01
http://estv.kr/
Edit1: To participate, mail to startale01@gmail.com with Bnet Account Informations / Race / Contact informations etc..
I guess you have to be a women living in korea 
Edit2 : Translations added, thx to dearyuna & Furong.
Edit3 : Added brackets, prize pool & stream link.
Edit4 : Added Liquipedia page
Source: http://www.thisisgame.com/esports/news/nboard/162/?n=45632
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
It will start on 9th August. Broadcasted every week on Saturday and Sunday evenings.
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will they be streamed ? :O
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oh thats neat thanks for the post
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cool, i hope it will be streamed on twitch too
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Pics mb?
User was warned for this post
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On July 31 2013 19:52 Porishan wrote:
will they be streamed ? :O
I guess it will be streamed somewhere with ESTV the host, Afreeca as mainsponsor and Blizzard as a sponsor.
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I hope they update with the rosters
and also Eve should join this.. ( tho I've seen from Scarlett's tweet that she retired from sc2 </3 )
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Adding few infos for registering
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Scarlett is about to drink some nerd brains through her Ethernet chord
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Deathangel has this in the bag.
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So are players like Scarlett allowed to join? Or do you have to be born female to join?
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On July 31 2013 20:00 Dodgin wrote:
Eve retired too soon.
She retired?
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On August 01 2013 00:01 thezanursic wrote:She retired?
yes funny how she retires as soon as she gets a chance to play...
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On August 01 2013 00:01 Badfatpanda wrote:
Deathangel has this in the bag.
Not cool man 
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On August 01 2013 00:01 Enema wrote:
So are players like Scarlett allowed to join? Or do you have to be born female to join?
Not sure if troll or troll? But now I have my doubts as well 
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Sounds cool, will try to watch this if I can.
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I don't think it would be good to let Scarlett take part, she would win by a mile. Which wouldn't be good for women's league especially, if people started shouting "look there's a man winning ladies tournaments". Which shouldn't happen, but people are idiots.
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On August 01 2013 01:25 Mayhemia- wrote:
I don't think it would be good to let Scarlett take part, she would win by a mile. Which wouldn't be good for women's league especially, if people started shouting "look there's a man winning ladies tournaments". Which shouldn't happen, but people are idiots.
Given she played in GSTL and the tourney is coordinated by ESF and "sponsored" by Blizzard,
they would have to be imbeciles to casue s***storm in foreign community by rejecting her.
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Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
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Cool! I hope the next big thing will be a male, blond hair, green eyes, 11 toes Starcraft II League. Because that is as much needed as a female esports league.
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I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
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the question is to know why would scarlett be interested by this minor league lol
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On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Things like this should definitely have great players like scarlett in the picture.
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On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
Nope. The more skilled female gamers they show the better.
Otherwise we will end up with more topics about how girls are picked to teams for looks than for skill,
therefore further "promoting" stereotypes.
On August 01 2013 01:46 E.L.V.I.S wrote:
the question is to know why would scarlett be interested by this minor league lol
PR + promoting female gamers
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On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
I couldn't name 10 UK pro's either. But that didn't stop tournaments happening and being fun to watch.
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On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports.
Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation for female-exclusive tournies.
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On August 01 2013 01:53 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation female-exclusive tournies.
That's not the only motivation. A lot fo the time people push for women's leagues for these types of things because in an incredibly male dominated environment its difficult for women to feel comfortable enough to want to play the game. If you want a somewhat more mainstream example you can look at female only chess leagues, which are quite common.
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On August 01 2013 01:46 E.L.V.I.S wrote:
the question is to know why would scarlett be interested by this minor league lol
Free money ? Anyway i doubt they would let her qualify and she probably know it, the olympics doesnt let transgender qualify since its kinda unfair for the others.
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On August 01 2013 01:56 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:53 Empirimancer wrote:On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation female-exclusive tournies. That's not the only motivation. A lot fo the time people push for women's leagues for these types of things because in an incredibly male dominated environment its difficult for women to feel comfortable enough to want to play the game. If you want a somewhat more mainstream example you can look at female only chess leagues, which are quite common.
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
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This seems a bit weird to me. In "real" sports, physical attributes play a part in performance so I can understand the need for a separate women's league.. but in ESPORTS theoretically everyone should be on the same level? Unless someone thinks that men and women can't think and click buttons on the same level.. but that is opening a really really really large can of worms :p
Seperately, on the issue of Scarlett...I think trans women are allowed to partake in womens' sports in some cases. I remember there was a trans woman boxer who competed with natural females. Obviously there is some controversy there over whether or not the trans boxer has an advantage or not. But for ESPORTS I don't think that's an issue. I say let everyone compete.
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And yes, I will capitalize ESPORTS every time :p
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On August 01 2013 01:25 Mayhemia- wrote:
I don't think it would be good to let Scarlett take part, she would win by a mile. Which wouldn't be good for women's league especially, if people started shouting "look there's a man winning ladies tournaments". Which shouldn't happen, but people are idiots.
"People don't agree with me; they are idiots."
I'm mixed about this entire thing. On one hand I think it'll be cool for female gamers to get exposure and viewers/fans that aren't just spamming their stream with "boobs or gtfo," plus there is a precedent for stuff like this in real sports with women's leagues. On the other hand, the reason why real sports segregate is because (excluding the outliers) men have different physical limits than women do and it would be unfair and in some sports unsafe to place the two against one another. With e-sports, the biological limits on either sex are pretty much non-existent so I don't really see the necessity for a woman's league.
....I also think there are far too many leagues already...but that's neither here nor there.
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On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
Here you go; 15 on the list with a team and 4 female SC2 squads.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene
Considering that IESF wants to run Starcraft2 for women only this year, it is a discipline worth giving it a shot.
Naturally a "Randsportart" due to the demographics of gamers but hey.
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On August 01 2013 02:15 BelleNOiR wrote:
Well she was born with male physiognomy, chemistry and the way her brain works. Despite how she feels "inside", she has the capabilities of a male. Every physician in the world will tell you this. So I don't think they'd let her play. (To mods: no disrespect intended, facts are facts).
The chemistry in the way that her brain works likely more closely resembles the average female, thus leading to feelings of gender dysphoria. Also if she is on HRT (quite common for trangendered people) then he physiognomy and body chemistry are also more like the average woman. Its more complicated than you think.
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On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:56 packrat386 wrote:On August 01 2013 01:53 Empirimancer wrote:On August 01 2013 01:47 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 01:45 Empirimancer wrote:
I don't think Scarlett should play, not because she was born male, but because female tournaments are based on the assumption that women are below average in skill at the game. If, say, BarbiePrime was Code S or Code A level, she shouldn't participate either.
What kind of logic is that? I don't assume any girl players are worse than guy players, I assume they can attain the same level of play given equal potential and equal practice. This isn't a physical sport, there are no genetic boundaries like other sports. Yes, but that's not the point at all. The point is that if there was at least a small number of females who were good enough to be regularly seen playing in normal tournaments and do decently, no one would even think of organizing a women's league. It's only because we don't see female players play in regular tournaments and because people want to see them that there's a motivation female-exclusive tournies. That's not the only motivation. A lot fo the time people push for women's leagues for these types of things because in an incredibly male dominated environment its difficult for women to feel comfortable enough to want to play the game. If you want a somewhat more mainstream example you can look at female only chess leagues, which are quite common. Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
And Judith Polgar is still allowed to compete in them. She just preferes not to. With the same reasoning, you could ban LoWely from belarussian or NightEnD from romanian tournaments.
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The reason females can't compete with males in StarCraft is very similar to the reason that non-Koreans can't really compete with Koreans (on the whole).
There are several factors... it's typically more accepted for males to play video games than it is for females. Just like video games are more popular in Korea than Europe or NA. As a result you find the average Korean and male are better than the average non-Korean and female.
But with practice, anyone can compete. Players like Naniwa who train as hard as Koreans often make it very far into tournaments. I don't think there's any inherent difference in women that prohibits them from being as good at StarCraft.
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On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high.
Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms).
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On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms).
Wasn't there that one girl this year who was starting to reach that level? I forgot her name. Black girl from the US--I feel terrible for forgetting
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Let's be real for a moment, some dudes watch female sports for the sex appeal. And I hate to disappoint some of you, but I wouldn't be surprised if the motivation for these tournaments aren't to give female players a chance to compete. Deep down, it's hosted probably to draw in a large audience who really just watch the sport for the sex appeal. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlette was rejected, for the same reason why unattractive girls are rejected from waitressing.
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On August 01 2013 03:23 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
Let's be real for a moment, some dudes watch female sports for the sex appeal. And I hate to disappoint some of you, but I wouldn't be surprised if the motivation for these tournaments aren't to give female players a chance to compete. Deep down, it's hosted probably to draw in a large audience who really just watch the sport for the sex appeal. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlette was rejected, for the same reason why unattractive girls are rejected from waitressing.
Female tournaments historically have far lower viewer turnout, and most of the organizers are likely women who want to see more women compete and succeed. This isn't bikini mud wrestling.
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On August 01 2013 03:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:Wasn't there that one girl this year who was starting to reach that level? I forgot her name. Black girl from the US--I feel terrible for forgetting
I couldn't find any reference to that (which doesn't mean that it isn't the case, of course) on chessdrum (a web site which specializes in chess news related to black chess players, both male and female) in 2013, but perhaps she was at a slightly lower level. Hou was invited to Tata Steel (a super-gm invitational tournament), though, and did pretty well (but is a chinese player so neither black nor american).
Obviously, Judit played at a high level, but had the misfortune to develop in an era dominated by a single player.
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On August 01 2013 01:01 never_Nal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 00:01 Enema wrote:
So are players like Scarlett allowed to join? Or do you have to be born female to join? Not sure if troll or troll? But now I have my doubts as well
How is this trolling it's a legitimate question I'm also curious if she would be able to play
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Do you need a proxy to watch afreeca ?
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Poll: Would you date Scarlett?No (57) 52% Yes (37) 34% If you have time (16) 15% 110 total votes Your vote: Would you date Scarlett? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
User was warned for this post
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On August 01 2013 03:49 Rombur wrote:
Do you need a proxy to watch afreeca ?
I don't think you will need for this tournament.
Given there is ESF and Blizzard logo in the banner, I'd expect some sort of stream available to people through TL as always.
And I don't think they would charge $$$ for that stream to watch female league lol... (unless there is a bonus )
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On August 01 2013 03:27 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 03:23 eScaper-tsunami wrote:
Let's be real for a moment, some dudes watch female sports for the sex appeal. And I hate to disappoint some of you, but I wouldn't be surprised if the motivation for these tournaments aren't to give female players a chance to compete. Deep down, it's hosted probably to draw in a large audience who really just watch the sport for the sex appeal. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if Scarlette was rejected, for the same reason why unattractive girls are rejected from waitressing. Female tournaments historically have far lower viewer turnout, and most of the organizers are likely women who want to see more women compete and succeed. This isn't bikini mud wrestling.
It's not doing well because the sex appeal is low.
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So wait I have a serious question, will Scarlett be allowed to play in this tournament?
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On August 01 2013 04:12 Incomplet wrote:Poll: Would you date Scarlett?No (57) 52% Yes (37) 34% If you have time (16) 15% 110 total votes Your vote: Would you date Scarlett? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
User was warned for this post
I feel bad but... "If you have time" fucking LOL.
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That pool is terrible and has no purpose beyond publicly humiliating someone. I don't know why it is still up.
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United States33390 Posts
On August 01 2013 04:12 Incomplet wrote:Poll: Would you date Scarlett?No (57) 52% Yes (37) 34% If you have time (16) 15% 110 total votes Your vote: Would you date Scarlett? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
User was warned for this post
Poll: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth?Yes (109) 63% No (53) 30% Maybe (12) 7% 174 total votes Your vote: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
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Too bad if it's only streamed on afreeca, hopefully there will be restreams. Can't really watch afreeca that well in Northern Europe :/
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On August 01 2013 04:51 Waxangel wrote:Poll: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth?Yes (109) 63% No (53) 30% Maybe (12) 7% 174 total votes Your vote: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
How the fuck is that 50-50 what is wrong with you people
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I think this is great news! I think women-only tournaments are a niche that's just waiting to be filled. Several female gamers have said that they got into competitive gaming through female-only cups, so I'm hoping this will catch the attention of more potential female progamers and help to improve the gender ratio in SC2.
Do the players have to reside in Korea, though? Although it wouldn't be a problem gathering 16 women to play, 16 Korean (or staying in Korea) women might be harder (at least if they should all be pros). Perhaps this is a kind of grassroots tournament to draw aspring Korean talent into competitive gaming (which would be great in its own respect), but as a tournament for the top pros, Korean residents might be a bit too restrictive. I guess it's best to wait for a translation. Either way, I hope it's going to turn out great!
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On August 01 2013 04:51 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:12 Incomplet wrote:Poll: Would you date Scarlett?No (57) 52% Yes (37) 34% If you have time (16) 15% 110 total votes Your vote: Would you date Scarlett? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
User was warned for this post Poll: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth?Yes (109) 63% No (53) 30% Maybe (12) 7% 174 total votes Your vote: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
If I had time
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Poll: Were you surprised to see Waxangel post in this thread ?If he had time (30) 51% Yes, he loves drama (13) 22% No, he spends all day in Nada's Body thread (9) 15% I will get warning/ban for this one :( (7) 12% 59 total votes Your vote: Were you surprised to see Waxangel post in this thread ? (Vote): Yes, he loves drama
(Vote): No, he spends all day in Nada's Body thread
(Vote): If he had time
(Vote): I will get warning/ban for this one :(
Sorry for bit offtopic  made some on-topic comments in previous posts so bit humor shouldn't be punished now
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On August 01 2013 04:55 namste wrote:
Too bad if it's only streamed on afreeca, hopefully there will be restreams. Can't really watch afreeca that well in Northern Europe :/
Wasn't there some rule about how tournaments have to be streamed on Twitch?
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This seems pretty cool. Hopefully there will be an english broadcast.
However it would be a shame if it requires the players to be in korea to join (according to the OP they do).
Anyone with translation? Thanks in advance.
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this community is disgusting.
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On August 01 2013 05:16 Lokerek wrote:Poll: Were you surprised to see Waxangel post in this thread ?If he had time (30) 51% Yes, he loves drama (13) 22% No, he spends all day in Nada's Body thread (9) 15% I will get warning/ban for this one (7) 12% 59 total votes Your vote: Were you surprised to see Waxangel post in this thread ? (Vote): Yes, he loves drama
(Vote): No, he spends all day in Nada's Body thread
(Vote): If he had time
(Vote): I will get warning/ban for this one
Sorry for bit offtopic made some on-topic comments in previous posts so bit humor shouldn't be punished now
5) He did what none of us could, but really wanted to.
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United States33390 Posts
I think the nada's body thread is one of the least funny in-jokes on TL, what are you talking about
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Obviously women only tournaments are silly. Here we have a sport (or game whatever you prefer) that does not require females to be as physically able as men, and still they have their own tournament? It makes no sense. What if we had an all male tournament LOL. Personally I am actually fine with having women only tournaments because I truly believe that men are superior in starcraft as well, I believe men are more competitive and is faster thinkers etc but thats just my opinion. But I know most people will say that women and men are equally as talented in sc, just that there are more men playing. So why this tournament? oh well.
But what I really dont understand is why scarlett is playing in this. She is a male to female transgender, it makes no sense that she is allowed to compete? ESPECIALLY considering she is way better than anyone else there, so the real first place is actually to the other person who gets into the final.
IDK just seems stupid.
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On August 01 2013 04:51 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:12 Incomplet wrote:Poll: Would you date Scarlett?No (57) 52% Yes (37) 34% If you have time (16) 15% 110 total votes Your vote: Would you date Scarlett? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
User was warned for this post Poll: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth?Yes (109) 63% No (53) 30% Maybe (12) 7% 174 total votes Your vote: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
Poll: Would you absorb the punch with your face?If you have time (24) 75% Yes (4) 13% No (4) 13% 32 total votes Your vote: Would you absorb the punch with your face? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms).
With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field.
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On August 01 2013 05:47 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms). With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field.
Source please? And by source, I mean the study itself.
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On August 01 2013 00:01 Badfatpanda wrote:
Deathangel has this in the bag.
rofl
also afreecatv? are companies running out of decent names?
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Honestly is there any girls playing hots 8 hours a day to be competitive ?
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On August 01 2013 05:50 renaissanceMAN wrote:rofl also afreecatv? are companies running out of decent names?
You maybe should have googled it before. This is a Korean SC streaming site, years before twitch existed.
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On August 01 2013 05:50 renaissanceMAN wrote:also afreecatv? are companies running out of decent names?
Supposedly name comes from 'A Free Casting' according to wikipedia.
They're the biggest streaming site in South Korea, and has been around a lot longer than twitch has so the Koerans don't seem to mind the name.
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On August 01 2013 05:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:47 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms). With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field. Source please? And by source, I mean the study itself.
Sry delete post plz, doesnt belong here.
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Anytime anyone ever brings up females in SC2, Scarlett somehow makes it into the conversation... it is really sad.
We should call it Scarlett's Statute.
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can someone fluent in korean tell me if the rules state somewhere if male-to-female-transgendered-people (sry if I slipped on the TL political correct accecptable term here, not rly my intention to offend) are allowed to participated? Or if you'd have to be born female?
I always wonder that... specially now that psychology and physiology have advanced to the point where you can be anything you want.
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:47 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms). With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field. Source please? And by source, I mean the study itself.
I read this years ago, have not been able to find the study since, would be interested myself.
That said, IQ is a mere approximation of intelligence as I consider it and not an infallible metric.
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On August 01 2013 08:21 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:50 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms). With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field. Source please? And by source, I mean the study itself. I read this years ago, have not been able to find the study since, would be interested myself. That said, IQ is a mere approximation of intelligence as I consider it and not an infallible metric.
Its was found and written by Richard Lynn, a man to believes in dysgenics and eugenics and has some great statements as "due to the advance of medicine, selection against those with poor genes for health was relaxed". Every single one of this studies is widely criticized by his peers from what I can tell, right down to the way he collected data. I am not putting a lot of weight in this theory, as it sounds like a pile of shit.
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 08:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms). With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field. Source please? And by source, I mean the study itself. I read this years ago, have not been able to find the study since, would be interested myself. That said, IQ is a mere approximation of intelligence as I consider it and not an infallible metric. Its was found and written by Richard Lynn, a man to believes in dysgenics and eugenics and has some great statements as "due to the advance of medicine, selection against those with poor genes for health was relaxed". Every single one of this studies is widely criticized by his peers from what I can tell, right down to the way he collected data. I am not putting a lot of weight in this theory, as it sounds like a pile of shit.
Hm, that said playing devil's advocate, a lot more men in prison than women, but also a lot more men among influential geniuses.
Other explanations are available of course, especially looking at the gender divide and societal pigeonholing. It seems to be something that 'hm, makes sense' rather than being verifiable or indeed true.
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On August 01 2013 08:31 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:27 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 08:21 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 02:49 tiocsti wrote:On August 01 2013 02:00 Empirimancer wrote:
Female-only chess leagues also only exist because female chess players generally can't compete with males.
It's like SC2, there's fewer players, therefore fewer pros at basically all levels. Judit was in the top 20 for a number of years, and basically always played vs males. On the other hand, female tournaments (and a different rating pool) helps support female chess by giving young players role models, an environment they feel safe in, an environment to grow in and so forth. The downside is, obviously, that the level of competition is not as high. Certainly the top active women (Yifan Hou and Humpy Koneru for example) can compete at a pretty high level vs men, but just not necessarily at the 2700+ level (code a vs code s, to put it in sc2 terms). With becoming a high Grandmaster chess player, a genius IQ is practically required. Males are 8 times as likely to have a genius IQ than women, (much more likely to be retarded too). I think this is a large contributing factor of male domination in the Chess field. Source please? And by source, I mean the study itself. I read this years ago, have not been able to find the study since, would be interested myself. That said, IQ is a mere approximation of intelligence as I consider it and not an infallible metric. Its was found and written by Richard Lynn, a man to believes in dysgenics and eugenics and has some great statements as "due to the advance of medicine, selection against those with poor genes for health was relaxed". Every single one of this studies is widely criticized by his peers from what I can tell, right down to the way he collected data. I am not putting a lot of weight in this theory, as it sounds like a pile of shit. Hm, that said playing devil's advocate, a lot more men in prison than women, but also a lot more men among influential geniuses. Other explanations are available of course, especially looking at the gender divide and societal pigeonholing. It seems to be something that 'hm, makes sense' rather than being verifiable or indeed true.
It seems to be low on evidence and high on speculation. All the data collection appears to have been cited for flaws by other people in the field. It goes down the line of "Families with more children are less like to produce one with exceptional IQ," and so on. It looks like a steaming pile of non-sense written by someone who had a theory and then cherry picked the data to back it up.
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On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
BabyToss, DaSakura, Flo, Aphrodite, MiSs, Eve (she could come out of retirement after hearing about this), Luway, Tilea, Livibee, LivinPink.
That's 10 off the top of my head. If I actually did some research I could find more.
Plus there have to be women gamers who will be inspired by this to try harder and compete on TV.
lol, I even forgot to mention Scarlett at first... There are quite a few more too.
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On August 01 2013 02:26 DinoMight wrote:
Just like video games are more popular in Korea than Europe or NA. As a result you find the average Korean and male are better than the average non-Korean and female.
But, Star2 sold more in the West than in Korea.
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On August 01 2013 09:21 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. BabyToss, DaSakura, Flo, Aphrodite, MiSs, Eve (she could come out of retirement after hearing about this), Luway, Tilea, Livibee, LivinPink. That's 10 off the top of my head. If I actually did some research I could find more. Plus there have to be women gamers who will be inspired by this to try harder and compete on TV. lol, I even forgot to mention Scarlett at first... There are quite a few more too.
It has to be women living in Korea.. so there's only 3 girls in pro team (Aphrodite, Barbie prime and maybe Scarlett?)
rest all amateurs... :O
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Pretty cool. I would've loved to cast this but I'm looking forward to the official cast nonetheless!
Obviously I'm most looking forward to seeing korean masters (even if they're low-mid), but seeing any solid effort will still be nice to see who might be up and coming. :D
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
It's a nice step away from the blatant tokenism of the Korean girls that have been on teams thus far for the most part.
Is Aphrodite still the pick of the bunch?
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On July 31 2013 19:52 Porishan wrote:
will they be streamed ? :O
A) This is good! yay for return of the women's league. January 2.0 inc?
B) stream?
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 01 2013 04:51 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:12 Incomplet wrote:Poll: Would you date Scarlett?No (57) 52% Yes (37) 34% If you have time (16) 15% 110 total votes Your vote: Would you date Scarlett? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
User was warned for this post Poll: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth?Yes (109) 63% No (53) 30% Maybe (12) 7% 174 total votes Your vote: Would you punch Incomplet in the mouth? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
lol wax you are awesome
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
I feel Incomplet's question was the wrong way around (the answer is 'yes' btw)
I mean, why should Scarlett want to date many of the scrubs on TL who have much inferior Starcrafting abilities?
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On August 01 2013 09:45 Caffeine0212 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 09:21 Shinta) wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. BabyToss, DaSakura, Flo, Aphrodite, MiSs, Eve (she could come out of retirement after hearing about this), Luway, Tilea, Livibee, LivinPink. That's 10 off the top of my head. If I actually did some research I could find more. Plus there have to be women gamers who will be inspired by this to try harder and compete on TV. lol, I even forgot to mention Scarlett at first... There are quite a few more too. It has to be women living in Korea.. so there's only 3 girls in pro team (Aphrodite, Barbie prime and maybe Scarlett?) rest all amateurs... :O
MiSs is on StarTale, so that's at least 4.
But yeah, to be fair they're the only ones I know off the top of my head as well.
Did a look at Liquipedia and there are a few in the rest of the asian area. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene#Asia
Still, hopefully such an event will encourage more women to give it a shot in korea.
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On August 01 2013 09:21 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. BabyToss, DaSakura, Flo, Aphrodite, MiSs, Eve (she could come out of retirement after hearing about this), Luway, Tilea, Livibee, LivinPink. That's 10 off the top of my head. If I actually did some research I could find more. Plus there have to be women gamers who will be inspired by this to try harder and compete on TV. lol, I even forgot to mention Scarlett at first... There are quite a few more too.
Shouldn't you be asking if a tournament only announced in Korean spheres on a Korean-only streaming service would allow foreigners to compete?
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On August 01 2013 05:50 renaissanceMAN wrote:rofl also afreecatv? are companies running out of decent names?
Its Afreeca.TV not "A Free Cat".
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On August 01 2013 10:30 Iodem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 09:21 Shinta) wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. BabyToss, DaSakura, Flo, Aphrodite, MiSs, Eve (she could come out of retirement after hearing about this), Luway, Tilea, Livibee, LivinPink. That's 10 off the top of my head. If I actually did some research I could find more. Plus there have to be women gamers who will be inspired by this to try harder and compete on TV. lol, I even forgot to mention Scarlett at first... There are quite a few more too. Shouldn't you be asking if a tournament only announced in Korean spheres on a Korean-only streaming service would allow foreigners to compete?
Nope, that wouldn't be a good question at all imo. Quite self-explanatory actually...
Also details are not given at all yet. The question was "can you name 10 female pro gamers". That's an easy task...
Whether they make this league Korean only or not, offline only or not, etc isn't released yet.
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Full translation for OP
Original Post on ThisIsGame
+ Show Spoiler +
지난 2006년 이후 국내에서 맥이 끊겼던 여성부 스타리그가 부활한다. 스타테일TV서 새롭게 출발한 ESTV가 '스타크래프트 II: 군단의 심장'으로 여성부 스타리그(Woman StarCraft® II League, 이하 WSL)’ 계획을 발표했다.
ESTV의 법인회사 에스게이트(SGATE)는 오는 8월 9일부터 한 달간의 일정으로 2013 아프리카TV WSL 개최한다고 밝혔다. 아프리카TV가 타이틀스폰서로 나선 이번 대회는 ESTV가 주최와 주관을 맡았고 블리자드 엔터테인먼트와 이스포츠연맹이 후원한다.
ESTV는 WSL을 정규적으로 편성해서 2013년 하반기와 2014년 개최할 예정이다. 개막일은 오는 8월 9일(금)로 예정되어 있으며 차주부터 매주 토요일과 일요일 저녁에 진행될 계획이다.
참가신청은 30일 저녁 9시부터 내달 5일까지 접수받으며 대진은 6일 공개될 예정이다. 참가를 희망하는 사람은 startale01@gmail.com 으로 ▲이름 ▲배틀넷 아이디 ▲배틀넷 계정 ▲ 종족 ▲ 연락처 를 기재해서 보내면 된다.
Translation:
The domestic female starleague, which post-2006 had been discontinued, is being revived. StartaleTV, through the newly running ESTV, is announcing plans for a Woman Starcraft® II League (WSL) for Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm.
SGATE, the corporation that runs ESTV, announced that the month-long scheduled WSL will begin on August 9th, 2013 on afreecaTV. This tournament, whose title sponsor is AfreecaTV, will be produced and organized by ESTV. Blizzard Entertainment & the esports leagues will also be sponsoring this event.
Registrations for this event will begin on the 30th from 9:00PM, and applications will be received until the 5th of next month (August 5th.) Brackets are planned to be announced on the 6th. For the hopeful applicants wishing to participate, please email startale01@gmail.com with the following statements:
Name
Battlenet ID
Battlenet Account
Race
Contact Information.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is?
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On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in real tournaments, then WCS AM and WCS EU should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is?
I'd be completely fine with that, only watch Koreans anyway.
I don't watch the CFL, I watch the NFL.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:36 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in real tournaments, then WCS AM and WCS EU should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is? I'd be completely fine with that, only watch Koreans anyway. I don't watch the CFL, I watch the NFL.
That's fine if that's your opinion then, as long as you're consistent!
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is?
I don't see region-specific as being the same as genderlocked tournaments.
Most sports need that kind of structure to really prosper. You become the best at something in your city or region, go compete in your national championships, then once you triumph there in continental or world championships.
In E-sports, the nature of the internet obviously flips a lot of this around, but I still value the model. I prefer the WCG/original WCS format by far for an 'Olympics of E-sports' format than the current WCS.
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Not a huge fan of having a separate female league when there isn't an already established gender lock on any tournaments.
Would really like to find out if it's open to strictly "birth females" or if anyone who identifies as a female can join. Hopefully it's the former, because the latter would ruin any sense of excitement.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:42 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is? I don't see region-specific as being the same as genderlocked tournaments. Most sports need that kind of structure to really prosper. You become the best at something in your city or region, go compete in your national championships, then once you triumph there in continental or world championships. In E-sports, the nature of the internet obviously flips a lot of this around, but I still value the model. I prefer the WCG/original WCS format by far for an 'Olympics of E-sports' format than the current WCS.
In an online game, why are regional competitions important?
I can understand that the infrastructure of traditional sport was built on regional tournaments, local fans and support, and locally sourced talent. That's understandable because you could only really watch the teams nearby. But SC2 and esports do not have these kinds of geographic restrictions (ok, some lag but we can fix that) because a.) of internet and technology (communications is easier, forums allow disparate communities to interact, streaming matches, VODs, etc); b.) tournaments can be held online; and c.) teams don't have to source local talent. You can see this happening in traditional sports as well, albeit slowly and with restrictions to (b). I don't see why esports needs to be structured in a way similar to traditional sports in such a rigid way.
The only reason in favour of these regional tournaments is that people want to cheer for their next door neighbor, even though they aren't very good. How is that argument different from the argument made for or against women-only competitions?
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On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
I already verbally obliterated gr33n in that thread. He had zero chance.
#letzombiecast
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:52 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
I already verbally obliterated gr33n in that thread. He had zero chance. #letzombiecast
Waxy didn't let you destroy shmget though
I was too busy playing Expeditions: Conquistador to reply to him, I bet he was disappointed
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On August 01 2013 14:55 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:52 ninazerg wrote:On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
I already verbally obliterated gr33n in that thread. He had zero chance. #letzombiecast Waxy didn't let you destroy shmget though I was too busy playing Expeditions: Conquistador to reply to him, I bet he was disappointed
Wax did the right thing by Snorlax-body-slamming that thread. By the time I logged onto TL today, there was already like 800 pages of text and a closed thread, so I had to go way back just to see what gr33n said, and he basically was like "It's the internet, deal with it, women." still.
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:51 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is? I don't see region-specific as being the same as genderlocked tournaments. Most sports need that kind of structure to really prosper. You become the best at something in your city or region, go compete in your national championships, then once you triumph there in continental or world championships. In E-sports, the nature of the internet obviously flips a lot of this around, but I still value the model. I prefer the WCG/original WCS format by far for an 'Olympics of E-sports' format than the current WCS. In an online game, why are regional competitions important? I can understand that the infrastructure of traditional sport was built on regional tournaments, local fans and support, and locally sourced talent. That's understandable because you could only really watch the teams nearby. But SC2 and esports do not have these kinds of geographic restrictions (ok, some lag but we can fix that) because a.) of internet and technology (communications is easier, forums allow disparate communities to interact, streaming matches, VODs, etc); b.) tournaments can be held online; and c.) teams don't have to source local talent. You can see this happening in traditional sports as well, albeit slowly and with restrictions to (b). I don't see why esports needs to be structured in a way similar to traditional sports in such a rigid way. The only reason in favour of these regional tournaments is that people want to cheer for their next door neighbor, even though they aren't very good. How is that argument different from the argument made for or against women-only competitions?
I'm not against women-only competitions btw, if only to get to see them actually play rather than sit in booths. I was just making the point that they're not the same thing, to me anyway.
You don't get better without infrastructure, and in the long-run the game would be better served by more people playing at the level of the Koreans, than nobody else but the Koreans playing.
I didn't want non-Korean WCS, but I and many others were surprised by the lack of region locking. I expected WCS NA to be players from that region, and Koreans like Polt and Violet and maybe Sage and Yugioh moving to the Root house, who have a history of personal investment in that area of the world. Players who ply their trade on NA, who will be playing against NA players and gradually raising the level. In EU we'd have forGG and a few others.
Didn't get that.
My favourite players are mostly Korean, my HerO/Oz fanboy posts should tip people off However outside of the latter I really don't care for WCS NA anymore, I could not give a fuck.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:05 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:51 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 14:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is? I don't see region-specific as being the same as genderlocked tournaments. Most sports need that kind of structure to really prosper. You become the best at something in your city or region, go compete in your national championships, then once you triumph there in continental or world championships. In E-sports, the nature of the internet obviously flips a lot of this around, but I still value the model. I prefer the WCG/original WCS format by far for an 'Olympics of E-sports' format than the current WCS. In an online game, why are regional competitions important? I can understand that the infrastructure of traditional sport was built on regional tournaments, local fans and support, and locally sourced talent. That's understandable because you could only really watch the teams nearby. But SC2 and esports do not have these kinds of geographic restrictions (ok, some lag but we can fix that) because a.) of internet and technology (communications is easier, forums allow disparate communities to interact, streaming matches, VODs, etc); b.) tournaments can be held online; and c.) teams don't have to source local talent. You can see this happening in traditional sports as well, albeit slowly and with restrictions to (b). I don't see why esports needs to be structured in a way similar to traditional sports in such a rigid way. The only reason in favour of these regional tournaments is that people want to cheer for their next door neighbor, even though they aren't very good. How is that argument different from the argument made for or against women-only competitions? I'm not against women-only competitions btw, if only to get to see them actually play rather than sit in booths. I was just making the point that they're not the same thing, to me anyway. You don't get better without infrastructure, and in the long-run the game would be better served by more people playing at the level of the Koreans, than nobody else but the Koreans playing. I didn't want non-Korean WCS, but I and many others were surprised by the lack of region locking. I expected WCS NA to be players from that region, and Koreans like Polt and Violet and maybe Sage and Yugioh moving to the Root house, who have a history of personal investment in that area of the world. Players who ply their trade on NA, who will be playing against NA players and gradually raising the level. In EU we'd have forGG and a few others. Didn't get that. My favourite players are mostly Korean, my HerO/Oz fanboy posts should tip people off However outside of the latter I really don't care for WCS NA anymore, I could not give a fuck.
They aren't exactly the same thing, but the reasoning ends up being the same: If we want to improve the sport's infrastructure we need to be inclusive rather than exclusive (in terms of involving demographics, not tournament qualifications). The more groups of people we encourage to play and join, the better off we are. So if you support regional tournaments because you want the sport to develop in certain regions, then that reasoning still holds for women's only tournaments.
Regarding WCS: It really depends on what Blizzard's intention is. To develop local scenes, or to have a premier tournament for each time zone. It's an off-topic debate though so I won't say more than that.
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:11 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 14:51 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 14:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is? I don't see region-specific as being the same as genderlocked tournaments. Most sports need that kind of structure to really prosper. You become the best at something in your city or region, go compete in your national championships, then once you triumph there in continental or world championships. In E-sports, the nature of the internet obviously flips a lot of this around, but I still value the model. I prefer the WCG/original WCS format by far for an 'Olympics of E-sports' format than the current WCS. In an online game, why are regional competitions important? I can understand that the infrastructure of traditional sport was built on regional tournaments, local fans and support, and locally sourced talent. That's understandable because you could only really watch the teams nearby. But SC2 and esports do not have these kinds of geographic restrictions (ok, some lag but we can fix that) because a.) of internet and technology (communications is easier, forums allow disparate communities to interact, streaming matches, VODs, etc); b.) tournaments can be held online; and c.) teams don't have to source local talent. You can see this happening in traditional sports as well, albeit slowly and with restrictions to (b). I don't see why esports needs to be structured in a way similar to traditional sports in such a rigid way. The only reason in favour of these regional tournaments is that people want to cheer for their next door neighbor, even though they aren't very good. How is that argument different from the argument made for or against women-only competitions? I'm not against women-only competitions btw, if only to get to see them actually play rather than sit in booths. I was just making the point that they're not the same thing, to me anyway. You don't get better without infrastructure, and in the long-run the game would be better served by more people playing at the level of the Koreans, than nobody else but the Koreans playing. I didn't want non-Korean WCS, but I and many others were surprised by the lack of region locking. I expected WCS NA to be players from that region, and Koreans like Polt and Violet and maybe Sage and Yugioh moving to the Root house, who have a history of personal investment in that area of the world. Players who ply their trade on NA, who will be playing against NA players and gradually raising the level. In EU we'd have forGG and a few others. Didn't get that. My favourite players are mostly Korean, my HerO/Oz fanboy posts should tip people off However outside of the latter I really don't care for WCS NA anymore, I could not give a fuck. They aren't exactly the same thing, but the reasoning ends up being the same: If we want to improve the sport's infrastructure we need to be inclusive rather than exclusive (in terms of involving demographics, not tournament qualifications). The more groups of people we encourage to play and join, the better off we are. So if you support regional tournaments because you want the sport to develop in certain regions, then that reasoning still holds for women's only tournaments. Regarding WCS: It really depends on what Blizzard's intention is. To develop local scenes, or to have a premier tournament for each time zone. It's an off-topic debate though so I won't say more than that.
Well, without wishing to derail further I'll be brief. I actually feel it's vaguely on-topic, especially as I forsee people coming in and trashing the concept of women tournaments.
Regional disparity - An infrastructure problem. Bridging that gap between being a good grandmaster and competing with people in the Korean house environment. Some form of region-locking might prevent that gap widening, and hopefully close it in future.
Female-only tournaments- A social/cultural problem. There is little impediment to women playing in the scene, bar the culture of the scene. Women aren't bridging the 'NA-Kespa house' gap, they're not hitting high ladder ranks and stagnating they're seeking an environment that is less hostile to them to begin with. Female-only tournaments can aid that.
Both are laudable, but they're different man.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:17 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:11 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 15:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 14:51 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 14:42 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 14:35 lichter wrote:
The female casters thread was closed for idiocy and it migrates into this topic? Sheesh.
Also: If you argue that women shouldn't get women's only leagues because they are bad and should compete versus men in "real tournaments", then WCS AM, WCS EU, Shoutcraft America, Dreamhack, MLG, and all other regional foreign tournaments should be trashed because only Koreans are any good at this game.
See how ridiculous this kind of reasoning is? I don't see region-specific as being the same as genderlocked tournaments. Most sports need that kind of structure to really prosper. You become the best at something in your city or region, go compete in your national championships, then once you triumph there in continental or world championships. In E-sports, the nature of the internet obviously flips a lot of this around, but I still value the model. I prefer the WCG/original WCS format by far for an 'Olympics of E-sports' format than the current WCS. In an online game, why are regional competitions important? I can understand that the infrastructure of traditional sport was built on regional tournaments, local fans and support, and locally sourced talent. That's understandable because you could only really watch the teams nearby. But SC2 and esports do not have these kinds of geographic restrictions (ok, some lag but we can fix that) because a.) of internet and technology (communications is easier, forums allow disparate communities to interact, streaming matches, VODs, etc); b.) tournaments can be held online; and c.) teams don't have to source local talent. You can see this happening in traditional sports as well, albeit slowly and with restrictions to (b). I don't see why esports needs to be structured in a way similar to traditional sports in such a rigid way. The only reason in favour of these regional tournaments is that people want to cheer for their next door neighbor, even though they aren't very good. How is that argument different from the argument made for or against women-only competitions? I'm not against women-only competitions btw, if only to get to see them actually play rather than sit in booths. I was just making the point that they're not the same thing, to me anyway. You don't get better without infrastructure, and in the long-run the game would be better served by more people playing at the level of the Koreans, than nobody else but the Koreans playing. I didn't want non-Korean WCS, but I and many others were surprised by the lack of region locking. I expected WCS NA to be players from that region, and Koreans like Polt and Violet and maybe Sage and Yugioh moving to the Root house, who have a history of personal investment in that area of the world. Players who ply their trade on NA, who will be playing against NA players and gradually raising the level. In EU we'd have forGG and a few others. Didn't get that. My favourite players are mostly Korean, my HerO/Oz fanboy posts should tip people off However outside of the latter I really don't care for WCS NA anymore, I could not give a fuck. They aren't exactly the same thing, but the reasoning ends up being the same: If we want to improve the sport's infrastructure we need to be inclusive rather than exclusive (in terms of involving demographics, not tournament qualifications). The more groups of people we encourage to play and join, the better off we are. So if you support regional tournaments because you want the sport to develop in certain regions, then that reasoning still holds for women's only tournaments. Regarding WCS: It really depends on what Blizzard's intention is. To develop local scenes, or to have a premier tournament for each time zone. It's an off-topic debate though so I won't say more than that. Well, without wishing to derail further I'll be brief. I actually feel it's vaguely on-topic, especially as I forsee people coming in and trashing the concept of women tournaments. Regional disparity - An infrastructure problem. Bridging that gap between being a good grandmaster and competing with people in the Korean house environment. Some form of region-locking might prevent that gap widening, and hopefully close it in future. Female-only tournaments- A social/cultural problem. There is little impediment to women playing in the scene, bar the culture of the scene. Women aren't bridging the 'NA-Kespa house' gap, they're not hitting high ladder ranks and stagnating they're seeking an environment that is less hostile to them to begin with. Female-only tournaments can aid that. Both are laudable, but they're different man.
Of course they are different--the causes for the stagnation of their scenes are different as you mention. But the problem (stagnation of the scene) is the same, the reason for wanting the scenes to develop is similar, and the possible best solution is the same (showcase tournaments and demographic-specific tournaments).
You are arguing semantics with me, that geography =/= gender. I'm not talking about that. I don't disagree, but that's not what I'm saying because it is not a helpful argument to make if we want to solve shortcomings we've identified in the scene (the sexism part highlighted in the female casters thread). Instead I am saying that the problems are similar and the solutions are similar, and if we try to understand why we believe they are problems (not the reason for the problem but the reason we identify it as a problem), they are similar.
We want everyone to be part of SC2, is the thing
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
Well I don't want everyone to be a part of SC2. I want SC2 to hit the smallest possible size it needs to hit to be genuinely sustainable and provide a living for those involved. Shit, semantics again I'm afraid.
Too big and it becomes like 'regular' sports, where every fucking idiot spouts nonsense in the pub rather than the sleek collection of knowledgeable nerds (for the most part) that it is today.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I don't want everyone to be a part of SC2. I want SC2 to hit the smallest possible size it needs to hit to be genuinely sustainable and provide a living for those involved. Shit, semantics again I'm afraid.
Too big and it becomes like 'regular' sports, where every fucking idiot spouts nonsense in the pub rather than the sleek collection of knowledgeable nerds (for the most part) that it is today.
Well "everyone" is an exaggeration, but we definitely all want it to hit that smooth spot where everything is profitable and sustainable with positive growth. Getting more people, which includes people from different regions, genders, religions, etc, into SC2 is the answer.
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:32 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I don't want everyone to be a part of SC2. I want SC2 to hit the smallest possible size it needs to hit to be genuinely sustainable and provide a living for those involved. Shit, semantics again I'm afraid.
Too big and it becomes like 'regular' sports, where every fucking idiot spouts nonsense in the pub rather than the sleek collection of knowledgeable nerds (for the most part) that it is today. Well "everyone" is an exaggeration, but we definitely all want it to hit that smooth spot where everything is profitable and sustainable with positive growth. Getting more people, which includes people from different regions, genders, religions, etc, into SC2 is the answer.
True that, there's a real paucity of Buddhists playing the game.
Facetiousness aside, I do want this tournament to succeed and showcase some good play.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:35 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:32 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 15:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I don't want everyone to be a part of SC2. I want SC2 to hit the smallest possible size it needs to hit to be genuinely sustainable and provide a living for those involved. Shit, semantics again I'm afraid.
Too big and it becomes like 'regular' sports, where every fucking idiot spouts nonsense in the pub rather than the sleek collection of knowledgeable nerds (for the most part) that it is today. Well "everyone" is an exaggeration, but we definitely all want it to hit that smooth spot where everything is profitable and sustainable with positive growth. Getting more people, which includes people from different regions, genders, religions, etc, into SC2 is the answer. True that, there's a real paucity of Buddhists playing the game. Facetiousness aside, I do want this tournament to succeed and showcase some good play.
I was raised Buddhist but went to a Catholic school, does that count
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 15:32 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 15:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I don't want everyone to be a part of SC2. I want SC2 to hit the smallest possible size it needs to hit to be genuinely sustainable and provide a living for those involved. Shit, semantics again I'm afraid.
Too big and it becomes like 'regular' sports, where every fucking idiot spouts nonsense in the pub rather than the sleek collection of knowledgeable nerds (for the most part) that it is today. Well "everyone" is an exaggeration, but we definitely all want it to hit that smooth spot where everything is profitable and sustainable with positive growth. Getting more people, which includes people from different regions, genders, religions, etc, into SC2 is the answer. True that, there's a real paucity of Buddhists playing the game. Facetiousness aside, I do want this tournament to succeed and showcase some good play. I was raised Buddhist but went to a Catholic school, does that count
Only if you're being serious. People aren't 'raised' Buddhist anyway, I thought they converted once they became Hollywood bigshots.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 01 2013 15:43 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 15:40 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 15:35 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 15:32 lichter wrote:On August 01 2013 15:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well I don't want everyone to be a part of SC2. I want SC2 to hit the smallest possible size it needs to hit to be genuinely sustainable and provide a living for those involved. Shit, semantics again I'm afraid.
Too big and it becomes like 'regular' sports, where every fucking idiot spouts nonsense in the pub rather than the sleek collection of knowledgeable nerds (for the most part) that it is today. Well "everyone" is an exaggeration, but we definitely all want it to hit that smooth spot where everything is profitable and sustainable with positive growth. Getting more people, which includes people from different regions, genders, religions, etc, into SC2 is the answer. True that, there's a real paucity of Buddhists playing the game. Facetiousness aside, I do want this tournament to succeed and showcase some good play. I was raised Buddhist but went to a Catholic school, does that count Only if you're being serious. People aren't 'raised' Buddhist anyway, I thought they converted once they became Hollywood bigshots.
Yes, that really is my.. religious background.
I hope this gets an English stream
I am guessing Khaldor "No English stream? Fuck that here you go" the E-sports hero once again
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
Khaldor at this stage isn't even an E-sports hero, he's just a general one. What a man *gushes*
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Here's a quick translation of the full article (I left out a couple of irrelevant details)
+ Show Spoiler +The Women's Starleague will return to Korea after being on hiatus since 2006. ESTV, run by Startale TV, is proud to announce the return of the Starcraft II HOTS WSL (Woman's Starcraft League).
It was announced that starting from the 8th/9th of August, the WSL will be hosted monthly on Afrika TV. With Afrika TV as the main sponsor, ESTV will organise and run the event in coordination with Blizzard Entertainment and ESF.
ESTV plans to run the league starting from the second half of 2013 and into 2014. The league will commence on the weekend of August 8th/9th, and games will be broadcast on Saturday and Sunday evenings KST.
Women interested in participating can contact startale01@gmail.com. Please list your name, Bnet ID, Bnet account, race and contact information.
It's about time we had something like this, good for Esports and the game even though there will be a lot of haters.
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Shame that this tournament is probably going to be doomed to have a maximum viewer count of 240, like every other female only tournament or cup thing. If the players are sub-mediocre level, there just won't be viewers.
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On August 01 2013 16:23 namste wrote:
Shame that this tournament is probably going to be doomed to have a maximum viewer count of 240, like every other female only tournament or cup thing. If the players are sub-mediocre level, there just won't be viewers.
Thanks for those words of encouragement.
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I am so going to join this with my korean AKA and a picture of myself crossdressing.
):
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On August 01 2013 19:26 PLaYbOi.. wrote:
scarlett ! let gO
Not playing in this
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I would be a hypocrite to say I'm not a fan of exclusive tournaments, when I would like America wcs and EU to be for people currently living there.
So best of luck in this league. Hopefully Zombiegrub will participate.
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Northern Ireland25344 Posts
At the very least if she doesn't get invited I hope she streams over the top, a la Nathanias used to do with SPL
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I personally always believed these women only tournaments to be a way for women to find a courage to compete. They are not necessary for sure, but looking at it from most women's perspective - the scene is male dominated and there are some rather dumb reactions whenever some woman makes an appearance in the same line as StarCraft (and let's face it, in gaming in general). That alone I feel, might be huge discouragement for some women to even try anything. Sure, women as of now, with the exception of Scarlett do not compare with the guys, but if all we see is women being reduced to boobs or appearance as a whole in better cases, completelly disregarding their potential passion for the game, there will be no real motivation for any woman to even try.
I personally am not a fan of women only tournaments, as it's a segregation, but I feel it's a good opportunity for those interested nonetheless. I mean, we'd not have aspiring players like Flo and Maddelisk without those. We may see even more.
Also, it is not clear if this is only for Korean resident women or if it's global thing, but I'd guess it's just for Korean residents...
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Thanks to dearyuna and Furong for the full translations. Added on OP.
It's not specified that you have to be in Korea to apply, but since the news is in korean only, I guess you have to.
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Hope to see MsSpyte in this tourney.. soon..
Also wouldn't be bad to see how the Startale girls do.. Perhaps Scarlett isn't as much better than the others as we tend to think ATM
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So, do we know who's participating in this except the two korean girls?
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Easy money for Scarlett if she decides to join. ^^
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Does BarbiePrime play in it?
She's so beautiful, almost like Bisu <3
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On August 07 2013 20:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Easy money for Scarlett if she decides to join. ^^
She won't
On August 01 2013 19:33 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
Not playing in this
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Woho! looking forward to watching!
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ive not read much around this but i can see the difference in physical sport having a women and men . . .sc2? Wha? or is this just a league to promote female gamers as usually they arent that good to get onto the main teams?
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I never thought of woman as inferrior to men, this might changes things. I mean, I see no reason why they would not be on-par in an esport. And no tourney is men only, everyone is welcome to join.
We got X-Games for female skateboarders, I see how men maybe have a physical edge on athleticly very demanding sports, but is that not saying women are inferrior when it comes to thinking aswell?
And why does that tourney not offend some law against gender discrimination, I am sure there would be some people pretty upset if females were banned from WCS. I guess I really missed the point of the whole tournament.
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On August 07 2013 21:40 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 20:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Easy money for Scarlett if she decides to join. ^^ She won't
TBH it would kinda take away all the excitement.
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On August 07 2013 22:09 HaRuHi wrote:
I never thought of woman as inferrior to men, this might changes things. I mean, I see no reason why they would not be on-par in an esport. And no tourney is men only, everyone is welcome to join.
We got X-Games for female skateboarders, I see how men maybe have a physical edge on athleticly very demanding sports, but is that not saying women are inferrior when it comes to thinking aswell?
And why does that tourney not offend some law against gender discrimination, I am sure there would be some people pretty upset if females were banned from WCS. I guess I really missed the point of the whole tournament.
I totally agree. I used to believe that women should have the right to vote but then I learned that there was a league of golf only for women. Is it not saying women can't compete with 50 years old men and therefore are inferior to man ?
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does barbie prime have a facebook? link pls? where did that pic come from in the banner?
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On August 07 2013 22:50 rave[wcr] wrote:
does barbie prime have a facebook? link pls? where did that pic come from in the banner?
Here it is: https://www.facebook.com/sc2barbie
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On August 07 2013 22:09 HaRuHi wrote:
And why does that tourney not offend some law against gender discrimination, I am sure there would be some people pretty upset if females were banned from WCS. I guess I really missed the point of the whole tournament.
Ethically, it's quite the difference between not allowing a minority to compete in a league for no reason, and to have a league for a minority only. Legally there shouldn't be any problems either way.
It amazes me how this topic (which doesn't really concern most of the posters here whatsoever) causes such emotions. You shall not disturb the order of male dominance!, pretty much.
Yeah, there aren't any biological differences that make males more adapt at playing sc2, but there are other barriers to shut women out of the scene; sexism and social stigma. Having this league works as an encouragement to female gamers, to show that there are in fact other females playing sc2.
Simply put, it's better to have a female scene and a male scene which eventually will merge into one (once the internet grows up), than having just a male scene.
This was pretty spot on:
On August 02 2013 05:34 BabyToss! wrote:
I personally always believed these women only tournaments to be a way for women to find a courage to compete. They are not necessary for sure, but looking at it from most women's perspective - the scene is male dominated and there are some rather dumb reactions whenever some woman makes an appearance in the same line as StarCraft (and let's face it, in gaming in general). That alone I feel, might be huge discouragement for some women to even try anything. Sure, women as of now, with the exception of Scarlett do not compare with the guys, but if all we see is women being reduced to boobs or appearance as a whole in better cases, completelly disregarding their potential passion for the game, there will be no real motivation for any woman to even try.
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what does barbie play again? toss? lindsay sporrer shld join this i think kak
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Trans women do not play with other women in athletism.
The reason why women and men are segregated in sports isn't misoginy. It's that women have not the same biology/phisiology men have.
In martial arts, competitors are segregated by size/weight. Same thing. It would be rather weird if I was 400 pounds heavy and for any (potentially legitimate) personal reason I said I wanted to compete with the 140 pounds competitors.
Women have different abilities than men in mathemathics/strategy games. I'm not saying I play better than BarbiePrime or calculate better than Marie Curie. I'm saying women in general are biologically less efficient in some things, just as men are in other things. (If this biological differences are caused by genetics or culture, that's an interesting question but not the point here at all)
That's why different sexes are "segregated" in competition. Scarlett isn't biologically different of Idra or Huk, but she's biologically different from BarbiePrime and MsSpyte. Letting Scarlett join a Woman's league defeats the purpose of a segregated league's existence.
(If anyone can prove women in general do not have a harder time with mathemathics than men do, I'll be honestly open minded/hopeful about it)
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On August 08 2013 02:33 nerak wrote:
Trans women do not play with other women in athletism.
The reason why women and men are segregated in sports isn't misoginy. It's that women have not the same biology/phisiology men have.
In martial arts, competitors are segregated by size/weight. Same thing. It would be rather weird if I was 400 pounds heavy and for any (potentially legitimate) personal reason I said I wanted to compete with the 140 pounds competitors.
Women have different abilities than men in mathemathics/strategy games. I'm not saying I play better than BarbiePrime or calculate better than Marie Curie. I'm saying women in general are biologically less efficient in some things, just as men are in other things. (If this biological differences are caused by genetics or culture, that's an interesting question but not the point here at all)
That's why different sexes are "segregated" in competition. Scarlett isn't biologically different of Idra or Huk, but she's biologically different from BarbiePrime and MsSpyte. Letting Scarlett join a Woman's league defeats the purpose of a segregated league's existence.
(If anyone can prove women in general do not have a harder time with mathemathics than men do, I'll be honestly open minded/hopeful about it)
To be honest, I don't think any of us know to what extent Scarlett is different from IdrA or HuK. She's obviously (at least) neurologically different, and to the best of my knowledge, we can't really know if that neurological difference stems from a difference in her DNA or not. It's obviously a tautology; if she were just like IdrA or HuK, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, this is not the topic of this thread (and I'm sure the moderators are growing really tired of this recurring discussion in so many threads), so I'm not going to say anything else about it. I just wanted to point out that we shouldn't assume to know too much about Scarlett's DNA, hormones or neurological setup (as a lot of people seem to think they know), nor do I think that the "tech specs" of humans are the end-all be-all of this discussion. But as I said, that's another discussion altogether.
On topic: Does anyone know where to find brackets or indeed any info at all about this tournament? I tried to search, but I don't know Korean, so it didn't turn up too much...
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On August 08 2013 02:33 nerak wrote:
Women have different abilities than men in mathemathics/strategy games. I'm not saying I play better than BarbiePrime or calculate better than Marie Curie. I'm saying women in general are biologically less efficient in some things, just as men are in other things. (If this biological differences are caused by genetics or culture, that's an interesting question but not the point here at all)
)
I think you're messing up on the terminology here a bit. If women are biologically different from men in some way, then it's caused by genes. Biologically/genetically essentially means the same thing in these discussions. There are no biological differences that's caused by cultural factors.
If you make the (very questionable) claim that men are biologically better at mathematics, then you're discarding the idea that it's caused by cultural/social differences.
Also, if you make such a claim the burden of proof is on you.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
9th August
1.Match 허지은 vs 김지선
2.Match 김가영 vs 이유미
11th August
1.Match 문새미 vs 권희경
2.Match 이가희 Walkover
Event Match
17th August
1.Match 이유라 vs 오은하
2.Match 한아름 vs 김아름
not really familiar with the female progamer so I cant tell you their ID.
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2. match is ST_Aphrodite vs. someone for Aug 9.
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On August 01 2013 19:33 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Not playing in this
Congrats on your decision.
If you play it will be like Michael Jordan against me, no game. 
Let the players evolve.
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To be honest, I don't think any of us know to what extent Scarlett is different from IdrA or HuK
Fair point. And one that could be figured out objectively.
I think you're messing up on the terminology here a bit. If women are biologically different from men in some way, then it's caused by genes
Not at all, this was actually intentional. Our "nurture" and experiences directly affect our brain's biology/chemestry. If identical twins are raised by different families, and one of them learns to write at 7, and the other learns to write at 40, they will have they will have different brain structures.
Also, underperforming in math may be largely caused by self-image and stress. And not exercising math for years clearly makes you get less sharp at it.
If you make the (very questionable) claim that men are biologically better at mathematics, then you're discarding the idea that it's caused by cultural/social differences.
The brain is adaptable. It may adapt to culture. There are currently legitimate reasons to believe that it does, and that it doesn't.
Also, if you make such a claim the burden of proof is on you.
I'll walk that extra mile and select quotes from a very well sourced article on How Stuff Works.
+ Show Spoiler +Research indicates that men and women do in fact have different structures and wiring in the brain, and men and women may also use their brains differently. In some cases, this may explain some of the stereotypes that we may not like to acknowledge about the genders. For example, men do score better at tasks that involve orienting objects in space, while women do better at language tests In 2001, researchers from Harvard found that certain parts of the brain were differently sized in males and females, which may help balance out the overall size difference. The study found that parts of the frontal lobe, responsible for problem-solving and decision-making, and the limbic cortex, responsible for regulating emotions, were larger in women [source: Hoag]. In men, the parietal cortex, which is involved in space perception, and the amygdala, which regulates sexual and social behavior, were larger Specifically about wheter nurture can shape our brain: + Show Spoiler +Sandra Witelson, the psychologist mentioned on the previous page, disagrees with that environmental assessment, and she uses an unlikely source to support her belief that our brains are structured at birth: Albert Einstein. Witelson had the opportunity to study pieces of Einstein's brain, and she found its unique structure to be a sort of confirmation that some brain differences simply can't be explained away with social or environmental reasons [source: Hotz]. She didn't look at Einstein's intelligence or accomplishments, but she simply observed that he had a unique brain structure that was likely already formed at birth.
This may help to explain why we don't have many Einsteins running around. And when it comes to the stereotype of women underperforming at Einstein's favored subjects of physics and math, that may just come down to slight differences in the brain as well. It may be that girls' and boys' brains develop at different rates. Our educational system, however, doesn't take that into account. When a child encounters a subject that his or her brain is not ready to tackle yet, the child may become frustrated and give up too quickly [source: Ripley].
To tease this out a bit further, girls may start to discern that boys do better in math classes, and that girls in their peer groups are electing not to take more advanced versions of the subjects. This can cause further drops in female enrollment in math and physics courses: One study showed that female students with math, science and engineering majors were uninterested in attending a summer math and sciences conference after they were shown videos in which the gender ratio was unbalanced, with three males for every one female [source: Bryner].
However, another study demonstrated that this sort of insecurity is all in our heads. In that study, girls' math scores improved when they were told that the exam was gender-neutral, while white men's scores on the same test dropped when they were told the scores would be evaluated against Asian men's scores [source: Crenson]. This seems to suggest that we can easily overcome any biological differences, or we can just as easily doom ourselves to fulfilling these prophecies.
TL;DR: There are plenty of evidence men and women perform differently in many non-physical activities. It is subject of debate which differences are genetic and which are cultural.
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On August 08 2013 03:28 Chexx wrote:
9th August
1.Match 허지은 vs 김지선
2.Match 김가영 vs 이유미
11th August
1.Match 문새미 vs 권희경
2.Match 이가희 Walkover
Event Match
17th August
1.Match 이유라 vs 오은하
2.Match 한아름 vs 김아름
not really familiar with the female progamer so I cant tell you their ID.
Thanks! I cross-referenced with Liquipedia, and Match 1 August 17th is BarbiePrime. Other than that, none of them seems to have a Liquipedia page (that I can find, at least).
I searched around and it seems estv.kr is the official site. I don't know any Korean, but just clicking on all the links yielded a schedule and a vod page. I guess a Live link might show up when there's actually a broadcast...
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Where's the they should allow guys to play bandwagon? Because, since they're the best players, they would provide the highest quality of games. O, the horror. The free handouts. I'm going to burn a charity down in protest. #WCSdoesitright.
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I'll pass, if I wanna watch low masters players duke it out I'll go to z33k or Playhem.
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On August 01 2013 00:57 Thieving Magpie wrote:Not cool man
Who is deathangel???? i dont get this one
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On August 08 2013 08:13 GrazerRinge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 00:57 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 00:01 Badfatpanda wrote:
Deathangel has this in the bag. Not cool man Who is deathangel???? i dont get this one
DeathAngel is a Zerg player who impersonated a girl (who went by VeraLynn) in a women only tournament (with her consent) and won it.
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On August 08 2013 08:13 GrazerRinge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 00:57 Thieving Magpie wrote:On August 01 2013 00:01 Badfatpanda wrote:
Deathangel has this in the bag. Not cool man Who is deathangel???? i dont get this one
He got caught playing on a girls account in a girls only tournament or some such thing.
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On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere.
Scarlett, Aphrodite, Colagirl, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn.
[Edit] mixed up the two Chinese female pros, Colagirl and Miss
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On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn.
Except most of those people aren't progamers.
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On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers.
Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene.
And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers."
[Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn].
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On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn].
Don't be so aggressive. He is the one who is wrong and you are the one that could get warned by mods for this
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On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers.
Not pro-gamers? What is your definition of Pro-gamer? Do they need to be a GSL champion? More than half of those listed are on teams, and the ones that aren't have played in MLG's or Dreamhacks, some with sponsorships. Sure one or two of them are just publicity stunts but their are plenty of male pro-players who are worse than the majority of this list.
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On August 08 2013 03:28 Chexx wrote:
9th August
1.Match 허지은 vs 김지선
2.Match 김가영 vs 이유미
11th August
1.Match 문새미 vs 권희경
2.Match 이가희 Walkover
Event Match
17th August
1.Match 이유라 vs 오은하
2.Match 한아름 vs 김아름
not really familiar with the female progamer so I cant tell you their ID.
김가영 = ST.Aphrodite
이유라 = BarbiePrime
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On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn].
No offense but you should probably mention that is on SEA server. A mid-master NA player could probably get into GM over there.
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On August 08 2013 02:33 nerak wrote:(If anyone can prove women in general do not have a harder time with mathemathics than men do, I'll be honestly open minded/hopeful about it)
how about you just read a book instead of expecting a starcraft forum to explain science to you? for centuries women were literally forced away from fields like politics and science and mathematics, so of course they're not going to perform at the same level as men, who have always had the freedom of going into whatever career they want and don't have to face discrimination based on their gender
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On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn].
Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually.
My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer:
-Plays full time
-Play as a means of livelihood
By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify.
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On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify.
How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify?
And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA.
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On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA.
I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that.
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On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that.
Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/
Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo.
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On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo.
Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though.
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On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though.
Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so...
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On August 08 2013 19:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though. Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so...
True that. You forgot to add White-Ra have two jobs and a familly. So the full-time thing is just bs
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On August 08 2013 19:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
I really wonder who will be in this league but also this could be a start point for female pro gamers to go big and perform way more often in major 'male' tournaments. Since there isn't really a gender restriction, they could participate everywhere. Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though. Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so...
If someone plays part time I think they are semi-professional by definition, regardless of how good they are.
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 08 2013 20:05 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 19:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 08:56 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
[quote]
Scarlett, Aphrodite, Miss_Cola, Maddelisk, Flo, Queene, Livinbee, BarbiePrime, MsSpyte, Kaitlyn. Except most of those people aren't progamers. Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though. Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so... If someone plays part time I think they are semi-professional by definition, regardless of how good they are.
My definition of Pro-Gamer is that you enter tournaments/make money off of playing and you practice many hours a day. And yes even if you play "part time" you can be a pro-gamer, Nerchio is a great example of this.
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On August 08 2013 20:35 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:05 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 Willba wrote:
[quote]
Except most of those people aren't progamers.
Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene. And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers." [Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though. Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so... If someone plays part time I think they are semi-professional by definition, regardless of how good they are. My definition of Pro-Gamer is that you enter tournaments/make money off of playing and you practice many hours a day. And yes even if you play "part time" you can be a pro-gamer, Nerchio is a great example of this.
Definition of semi professional:
'Taking part in a sport for pay but not on a full-time basis.'
Safe to say Nerchio, Lucifron etc fit that definition yes?
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 08 2013 21:25 Willba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:35 NovemberstOrm wrote:On August 08 2013 20:05 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 09:14 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
[quote]
Livinbee, MsSpyte, and Colagirl are the only ones not currently on professional teams. Livinbee is GM, though, MsSpyte is high master and was recently featured on TL streams (to pre-empt the whole "popular stream because female" debate - WHY she is featured is a nonissue, the fact that she is featured and has a decent viewer count to provide streaming income is the key point since income is a major part of distinguishing a "pro"), and ColaGirl is a known progamer from the Chinese scene.
And even if you ignored those facts and considered those three not pros, unless you failed to pass 2nd grade math, 3 out of 10 falls far short of "most...aren't progamers."
[Acer's Scarlett, Startale's Aphrodite, Millenium's Maddelisk, Quantic's Flo, MYI's Queene, BarbiePrime, Quantic Academy's Kaitlyn]. Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually. My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer: -Plays full time -Play as a means of livelihood By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though. Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so... If someone plays part time I think they are semi-professional by definition, regardless of how good they are. My definition of Pro-Gamer is that you enter tournaments/make money off of playing and you practice many hours a day. And yes even if you play "part time" you can be a pro-gamer, Nerchio is a great example of this. Definition of semi professional: 'Taking part in a sport for pay but not on a full-time basis.' Safe to say Nerchio, Lucifron etc fit that definition yes?
Lucifron is full time for a while now. His brother isn't full time though
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On August 08 2013 21:42 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 21:25 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 20:35 NovemberstOrm wrote:On August 08 2013 20:05 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 19:10 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 19:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 08 2013 18:55 Willba wrote:On August 08 2013 18:43 Valikyr wrote:On August 08 2013 18:32 Willba wrote:
[quote]
Being on a professional team does not equate to being a professional, most of those players play part time or casually.
My criteria for distinguishing a pro gamer:
-Plays full time
-Play as a means of livelihood
By these definitions only Scarlett, Flo, and BarbiePrime qualify. How would ST.Aphrodite not qualify? And she's most likely the best female player considering she was actually high up in NA GM rankings when she played on NA. I thought she played part time, she doesn't live in the ST house does she? I thought the Aphrodite on NA was a smurf, but I could be wrong about that. Pretty sure she did live and train in the StarTale house for a while, not sure what the current situation is like though. And I don't think the Aphrodite account on NA is a smurf. I remember seeing her use it on stream? Although I don't know if that's the same account you're talking about so... :/ Best way to clear these up would be to just watch her stream imo. Yeah just checked, she was GM. I still assume she played/plays part time though. Don't see why that's relevant. LucifroN, Nerchio and Vortix are all players that have had big success while still playing part-time. Hell I think even Life was playing part-time at some point while still tearing up nerds in the GSL so... If someone plays part time I think they are semi-professional by definition, regardless of how good they are. My definition of Pro-Gamer is that you enter tournaments/make money off of playing and you practice many hours a day. And yes even if you play "part time" you can be a pro-gamer, Nerchio is a great example of this. Definition of semi professional: 'Taking part in a sport for pay but not on a full-time basis.' Safe to say Nerchio, Lucifron etc fit that definition yes? Lucifron is full time for a while now. His brother isn't full time though
Ok, but the definition still applies to whoever is playing part time.
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This is seriously derailing the thread, but I just can't resist:
How many hours is part-time? Is it 8hrs a day/40 hrs a week? What if you do paid work 8 hrs a day, and play competitively in average 5.8 hrs a day for 7 days (for a little more than 40 hrs a week, like, say 8 hrs on saturday and sunday and 4.8 hrs after work on week-days)? Are you then both a full-time employee and a full-time gamer, since you spend as much time as a working week on gaming? And how little time can you spend in a regular job until it is not considered a full-time job? 7 hrs a day? 6 hrs a day? Is that exactly the same as the minimum amount of time required to game for it to be a full-time job? What if you play in exactly one online tournament every week and winning, earning enough to manage without any other work, but only spending, say 4 hrs a week on gaming? Would it still be a full-time gaming job, since it's the only and sufficient source of income? Would you consider someone being a gamer first, but having a paid part-time job, at all? How much work could they do at the part-time job until you'd consider the part time job their full-time job? I'm sorry, it seems like you want gaming to be the only income, rather than considering the time spent and/or money gained...
On topic:
On August 08 2013 08:22 CmdBash wrote:
any vods available?
There hasn't been any matches yet. If there are any vods, I expect them to be available at http://www.estv.kr/Vod.
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On August 08 2013 18:08 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:33 nerak wrote:(If anyone can prove women in general do not have a harder time with mathemathics than men do, I'll be honestly open minded/hopeful about it) how about you just read a book instead of expecting a starcraft forum to explain science to you? for centuries women were literally forced away from fields like politics and science and mathematics, so of course they're not going to perform at the same level as men, who have always had the freedom of going into whatever career they want and don't have to face discrimination based on their gender
Or you could yourself read my next post after the one you quote, where I show sources of both views: both that women's difference in math tests is genetic and social.
I think I spent like 4 hours reading articles about how sex affects neurology yesterday. Here are some things I learned:
1) By no means the neurological differences between men are women are comparable to the "physical" (muscular/skeletal) differences, the neurological differences are much more subtle.
2) Men, in average, are undoubtly better than women in spatial intelligence.
3) Women, in average, are undoubtly better than men at verbal skills.
4) Taking hormonal conterconceptives affects women's verbal skills and spatial intelligence.
5) In a math test made in a college female students were told the test was "gender neutral". They performed just as well as male students in average, a sign that women perform badly in math because of stereotypes and anxiety.
6) In average, men and women use different areas of the brain to calculate.
So, all in all, the veredict would be that the effects of sex on human neurology are real, but much more subtle than we are made believe by stereotypes. Also, even in tasks where everyone is equally competent, cognition may vary between men and women.
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On August 09 2013 05:28 nerak wrote:
I think I spent like 4 hours reading articles about how sex affects neurology yesterday. Here are some things I learned:
Ah, no. This is not how we discuss medical topics. Four hours is enough to read something and then regurgitate it on an internet forum, it's not enough to have any kind of serious understanding about a topic this complex. This is like reading about Starcraft strategies for a few hours and then talking about how pros should change their strategies, except way worse.
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Is there a working stream at all? I installed afreeca but everything is in korean and I've got no idea what I'm doing.
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On August 09 2013 17:10 THM wrote:
Is there a working stream at all? I installed afreeca but everything is in korean and I've got no idea what I'm doing.
http://player.afreeca.com/estv01 should work if you did things right
e: Oh god they're playing on Daybreak
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Afreeca has always worked better in IE for me, if people have issues try that.
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On August 09 2013 17:19 Nesserev wrote:
First game ended so fast, proxy 2gate cheese xD
She also practiced a soultrain build...should have used that instead ;;.
Oh she is doing it this game :D
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I'm watching a PvZ (0-1) now. Is that the right tournament?
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On August 09 2013 17:31 PepsiMaxxxx wrote:
I'm watching a PvZ (0-1) now. Is that the right tournament?
Yes
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k, can't watch any of the streams. Oh well I guess... Afreeca has never impressed me.
Someone keep us updated plz.
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IT's 1-1 in match 2 (the one under Aphrodite in the bracket).
ZvP on Whirlwind, Zerg managed to sneak in some lings but they did no damage. Now it's three base Zerg vs two base Toss and the Toss is going for Immortals while the Zerg is building roach/ling with upgrades.
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so there is no twitch stream anywhere ?
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On August 08 2013 03:06 iMAniaC wrote:
To be honest, I don't think any of us know to what extent Scarlett is different from IdrA or HuK. She's obviously (at least) neurologically different, and to the best of my knowledge, we can't really know if that neurological difference stems from a difference in her DNA or not. It's obviously a tautology; if she were just like IdrA or HuK, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, this is not the topic of this thread (and I'm sure the moderators are growing really tired of this recurring discussion in so many threads), so I'm not going to say anything else about it. I just wanted to point out that we shouldn't assume to know too much about Scarlett's DNA, hormones or neurological setup (as a lot of people seem to think they know), nor do I think that the "tech specs" of humans are the end-all be-all of this discussion. But as I said, that's another discussion altogether.
On topic: Does anyone know where to find brackets or indeed any info at all about this tournament? I tried to search, but I don't know Korean, so it didn't turn up too much...
Yes, yes we do know that transsexuality is, at least partly, caused by an androgen receptor difference, thus it is genetical. Whether or not this causes her brain to develop differently than that of the average male, I am unsure, but since testosteron plays an important part during the development of males, I would assume so, and thus my bet would be that it is closer to a female brain than a male one (of course depending on just how high levels of testosterone she would have had during her childhood).
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18962445
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Diva botched that hard. Welp
On August 09 2013 18:12 Odenetheus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 03:06 iMAniaC wrote:
To be honest, I don't think any of us know to what extent Scarlett is different from IdrA or HuK. She's obviously (at least) neurologically different, and to the best of my knowledge, we can't really know if that neurological difference stems from a difference in her DNA or not. It's obviously a tautology; if she were just like IdrA or HuK, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, this is not the topic of this thread (and I'm sure the moderators are growing really tired of this recurring discussion in so many threads), so I'm not going to say anything else about it. I just wanted to point out that we shouldn't assume to know too much about Scarlett's DNA, hormones or neurological setup (as a lot of people seem to think they know), nor do I think that the "tech specs" of humans are the end-all be-all of this discussion. But as I said, that's another discussion altogether.
On topic: Does anyone know where to find brackets or indeed any info at all about this tournament? I tried to search, but I don't know Korean, so it didn't turn up too much... Yes, yes we do know that transsexuality is, at least partly, caused by an androgen receptor difference, thus it is genetical. Whether or not this causes her brain to develop differently than that of the average male, I am unsure, but since testosteron plays an important part during the development of males, I would assume so, and thus my bet would be that it is closer to a female brain than a male one (of course depending on just how high levels of testosterone she would have had during her childhood). Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18962445
Why are you posting this now
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I posted that because there was a discussion as recently as on the previous page regarding the neurology of humans, and I also do find it annoying when people claim that we do not know whether or not it is genetical.
My apologies if it was entirely pointless.
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On August 09 2013 18:25 Odenetheus wrote:
I posted that because there was a discussion as recently as on the previous page regarding the neurology of humans, and I also do find it annoying when people claim that we do not know whether or not it is genetical.
My apologies if it was entirely pointless.
It is because that's not the topic. Topic is : "A SC2 Tournaments". Wtf with transexuality ? Stop it please.
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Unsurprisingly one-sided, that's what happens when a gold leaguer faces a master league player I guess
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Didn't manage to start the afreeca thing at all because it's in korean, or I did, but it gives me some stupid thing in Korean which I cannot even translate with google translate, and when I click the only button it closes the window.
Great way to draw in international viewers WSL!
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On August 09 2013 18:12 Odenetheus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 03:06 iMAniaC wrote:
To be honest, I don't think any of us know to what extent Scarlett is different from IdrA or HuK. She's obviously (at least) neurologically different, and to the best of my knowledge, we can't really know if that neurological difference stems from a difference in her DNA or not. It's obviously a tautology; if she were just like IdrA or HuK, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, this is not the topic of this thread (and I'm sure the moderators are growing really tired of this recurring discussion in so many threads), so I'm not going to say anything else about it. I just wanted to point out that we shouldn't assume to know too much about Scarlett's DNA, hormones or neurological setup (as a lot of people seem to think they know), nor do I think that the "tech specs" of humans are the end-all be-all of this discussion. But as I said, that's another discussion altogether.
On topic: Does anyone know where to find brackets or indeed any info at all about this tournament? I tried to search, but I don't know Korean, so it didn't turn up too much... Yes, yes we do know that transsexuality is, at least partly, caused by an androgen receptor difference, thus it is genetical. Whether or not this causes her brain to develop differently than that of the average male, I am unsure, but since testosteron plays an important part during the development of males, I would assume so, and thus my bet would be that it is closer to a female brain than a male one (of course depending on just how high levels of testosterone she would have had during her childhood). Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18962445
I guess I stand corrected
I was going to write a lengthier response about my original post being sloppily worded, but then I noticed that I said I wasn't going to say anything else about it, so I'll leave it at that.
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I took a proper look at the brackets now and there's some kind of wonky seeding into Ro8. However, I don't know any Korean. Someone care to give me the gist of it?
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On August 10 2013 14:11 iMAniaC wrote:
I took a proper look at the brackets now and there's some kind of wonky seeding into Ro8. However, I don't know any Korean. Someone care to give me the gist of it? Without translating, just from looking at the numbers (1,2) and arrows, I think it means in the future iterations of the league the top two finishers from previous seasons will be seeded in the second round.
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not to sound cruel or judgmental, but I stand by the fact that "transgender" people should not be competeing "sports" wise against non-transgender (of the opposite gender)
So what I am saying is, transgender women are not women, they are built differently, chemically different, larger hands to access more of the keyboard. ( there is no argument here, its a proven fact). But to ask actually women born a woman to play (for all intensive purposes) a man in a sports setting is wrong and should not be allowed.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_Scene
Look at the "notable female players" the first one is a transgender (male based on chromosomes) which should be a slap in the face to true women gamers of the same caliber. Start distinguishing between women/men in a tournament setting (for women) and you will get a true result as to who the best female gamer is.
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On August 10 2013 18:57 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 14:11 iMAniaC wrote:
I took a proper look at the brackets now and there's some kind of wonky seeding into Ro8. However, I don't know any Korean. Someone care to give me the gist of it? Without translating, just from looking at the numbers (1,2) and arrows, I think it means in the future iterations of the league the top two finishers from previous seasons will be seeded in the second round.
Perhaps. But it wouldn't make much sense, seeing that the bracket in the OP is for the first season, and there are no previous winners... Perhaps the losers of the first get put in a group stage, from which the best 2 out of 5 get seeded back in?
There's a LP page up now: WSL. Does anyone know any hangul? I attempted to transcribe the hangul nicks, but I'm not 100% confident in my ability to do that and I realize that I wouldn't get it if some of them were hangulifications of English words...
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아이멤 = IM, (or possible "I am")
디바 = Diva
어디가 = "Where are you going"
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On August 11 2013 01:20 FuRong wrote:
아이멤 = IM, (or possible "I am")
디바 = Diva
어디가 = "Where are you going"
i second this
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is Gayoung winning everything like always?
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On August 11 2013 01:26 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 01:20 FuRong wrote:
아이멤 = IM, (or possible "I am")
디바 = Diva
어디가 = "Where are you going" i second this
Thanks, both of you! 어디가 isn't some pronounciation of "Where are you going", though? It only means that in Korean, right? I think it would be reasonable to transcribe the handles, but not translate them. For instance, it would be silly for English casters to talk about the Finnish player Face (Naama) or French casters talking about the German Player LE (Le Petit - The Little One).
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On August 10 2013 19:22 Fusa wrote:not to sound cruel or judgmental, but I stand by the fact that "transgender" people should not be competeing "sports" wise against non-transgender (of the opposite gender) So what I am saying is, transgender women are not women, they are built differently, chemically different, larger hands to access more of the keyboard. ( there is no argument here, its a proven fact). But to ask actually women born a woman to play (for all intensive purposes) a man in a sports setting is wrong and should not be allowed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_SceneLook at the "notable female players" the first one is a transgender (male based on chromosomes) which should be a slap in the face to true women gamers of the same caliber. Start distinguishing between women/men in a tournament setting (for women) and you will get a true result as to who the best female gamer is.
Joe Rogan is that you..?
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On July 31 2013 20:00 Dodgin wrote:
Eve retired too soon.
well are aphrodite etc playing in it ? eve never came ahead of them so i think for her personal life perhaps its best when she find good job ... retire is not always a bad thing when it bring you further in life
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Where can i watch the VOD's from august 9? also when will the stream be live today?
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4713 Posts
On August 10 2013 19:22 Fusa wrote:not to sound cruel or judgmental, but I stand by the fact that "transgender" people should not be competeing "sports" wise against non-transgender (of the opposite gender) So what I am saying is, transgender women are not women, they are built differently, chemically different, larger hands to access more of the keyboard. ( there is no argument here, its a proven fact). But to ask actually women born a woman to play (for all intensive purposes) a man in a sports setting is wrong and should not be allowed. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Female_SC2_SceneLook at the "notable female players" the first one is a transgender (male based on chromosomes) which should be a slap in the face to true women gamers of the same caliber. Start distinguishing between women/men in a tournament setting (for women) and you will get a true result as to who the best female gamer is.
I think your opinion would be valid if this was a physical sport since there are definitely clear evidence of the difference between the two sexes and the peak of their performance in that area, but there is absolutely no evidence to show that women can't compete with men in a cerebral activity such as SC2.
Until such a time as a study comes up that proves that women and male brains function differently as to the point that one is superior to the other in certain fields (with SC2 being one of them) then I'd agree that having a transgender in a female/male sport would be bad (this as far as I know does happen in real sports). But this isn't the case right now.
This discussion will also probably pop up whenever an all female league is formed, though the purpose of the tournament/league should always be clear, to encourage more women to get into video games, not to give them a shot to earn easy money, once women have leveled the playing field with men the female only leagues should be disbanded or unified with other competitions.
So far this seems league seems like a good idea to me, I hope some new talent is discovered and that the scene could maybe grow even more.
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Its too bad tonights broadcast will be at the same time as WCS, bad schedule on WSL's part. 디바 fighting ~_~
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It is sooo laggy for me unwatchable
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On August 17 2013 21:17 stuzH wrote:
Where can i watch the VOD's from august 9? also when will the stream be live today?
The VODs can be found here:
http://www.afreeca.com/estv01/ and then you have to click on the "전체보기" right over the VODs toward the bottom of the page and then go to page 3. The url stays the same all the time, so you'll have to navigate a little on your own.
Other VODs can be found on http://estv.kr/Vod.
It seems there's been some group play with the losers from the first round. I tried to update WSL with it, but I haven't checked out the VODs yet myself, so there's no scores or anything up yet. Feel free to add them yourselves if you watch them. Just log into LP with your regular TL username and password and click edit.
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are those 2 girls on the banner the same person, or different people?
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If I wanna watch plat level players ill just watch myself play
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I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to figure this obsession with watching sub par players face off based on their looks. this doesn't just apply to a female league but also to the numerous complaints about the WCS structure and how Koreans are too dominant.
I'm a huge fan of starcraft as a competitive activity, however I don't want to watch TLO play innovation. I'd rather see a top level zerg like Soulkey or Symbol duke it out. I've never cared about race or gender I just want to watch insanely good matches between the actual top level players. If I want anything other than that I'll had over to Husky's channel and watch Rotterdam go carriers or whatever other cute thing he uploaded that week.
Making a post about an all female league is the equivalent of making a post about how some YouTube hero is holding a tournament between just foreigners.
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On August 25 2013 04:21 skadumdums wrote:
I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to figure this obsession with watching sub par players face off based on their looks. this doesn't just apply to a female league but also to the numerous complaints about the WCS structure and how Koreans are too dominant.
I'm a huge fan of starcraft as a competitive activity, however I don't want to watch TLO play innovation. I'd rather see a top level zerg like Soulkey or Symbol duke it out. I've never cared about race or gender I just want to watch insanely good matches between the actual top level players. If I want anything other than that I'll had over to Husky's channel and watch Rotterdam go carriers or whatever other cute thing he uploaded that week.
Making a post about an all female league is the equivalent of making a post about how some YouTube hero is holding a tournament between just foreigners.
So don't watch it.
Some people want to. This thread is for them.
Do you also complain about PewDiePie and other people doing the whole "Let's Play" gig of terrible games?
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umm. could someone who can read korean post aphrodite and barbies games in vod links pls?
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On August 25 2013 02:49 EleanorRIgby wrote:
are those 2 girls on the banner the same person, or different people?
differnet haha
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On August 25 2013 04:33 rave[wcr] wrote:
umm. could someone who can read korean post aphrodite and barbies games in vod links pls?
They're added to the brackets on WSL now They're the only ones I bothered to add right now.. Feel free to add additional info to the bracket if you watch the games. You just add the name of the map where it says "map1=" and the number 1 or 2 where it says "map1win=". Aphrodite is 1 and LING is 2, so if Aphrodite won the first map and if that map was, say, Icarus (I don't know which map is the first, so this is an example), then it should look like:
|map1=Icarus |map1win=1 |vodgame1=http://etc.
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I think if an English twitch stream could be set up, it'd would help a ton in terms of publicity. So... COME ON KHALDOR, be a nice guy and stream it like you did the GSL qualifiers
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On August 25 2013 08:50 dyDrawer wrote:
I think if an English twitch stream could be set up, it'd would help a ton in terms of publicity. So... COME ON KHALDOR, be a nice guy and stream it like you did the GSL qualifiers
ZombieGrub said earlier that she might be interested in doing it, but I don't know if she meant officially for ESTV or just voice-over on the vods. Anyway, all the vods are added to the Liquipedia page now, so it should be fairly easy for anyone to provide a casting for the existing vods if they feel like it (although I'm unsure how that would go down with copyright etc. This isn't Brood War times anymore...).
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how sexy would an aphrodite vs barbie final in this would be...
just perused through some of barbie and aphrodite's games. seems like none of the other girls are anywhere near as good or as pretty as the 2 of them. the other girls play like they're ridiculously nervous too. it might have been better to just stage a aphrodite vs barbie showmatch just to get to the point.
the highlight so far of these games for me are aphrodite's outfits each time she plays or casts.
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Actually, Barbie didn't make it, so it's Aphrodite vs OTL in the finals. I think they're tomorrow (tuesday) at 20:00 KST, but I'm not entirely certain (not speaking Korean). An earlier vod claimed that OTL was gold league, but she's beaten both a platinum and a master player, so that may have been a smurf (or misinformation). Or she may have cheesed her way to the finals. I haven't watched the games properly, so I'm not quite sure.
Edit: Tuesday wasn't the finals, but Dota2. Don't know when the finals are going to be, then.
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Pretty obvious that Aphrodite is gonna win every one of these. Good initiative though!
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On September 02 2013 18:17 iMAniaC wrote:
Actually, Barbie didn't make it, so it's Aphrodite vs OTL in the finals. I think they're tomorrow (tuesday) at 20:00 KST, but I'm not entirely certain (not speaking Korean). An earlier vod claimed that OTL was gold league, but she's beaten both a platinum and a master player, so that may have been a smurf (or misinformation). Or she may have cheesed her way to the finals. I haven't watched the games properly, so I'm not quite sure.
A gold player just won't beat a masters player, cheese or not.
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On September 02 2013 18:54 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 18:17 iMAniaC wrote:
Actually, Barbie didn't make it, so it's Aphrodite vs OTL in the finals. I think they're tomorrow (tuesday) at 20:00 KST, but I'm not entirely certain (not speaking Korean). An earlier vod claimed that OTL was gold league, but she's beaten both a platinum and a master player, so that may have been a smurf (or misinformation). Or she may have cheesed her way to the finals. I haven't watched the games properly, so I'm not quite sure. A gold player just won't beat a masters player, cheese or not.
A gold player cant win a bo7 against a masters player o.O
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4713 Posts
On August 25 2013 04:21 skadumdums wrote:
I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to figure this obsession with watching sub par players face off based on their looks. this doesn't just apply to a female league but also to the numerous complaints about the WCS structure and how Koreans are too dominant.
I'm a huge fan of starcraft as a competitive activity, however I don't want to watch TLO play innovation. I'd rather see a top level zerg like Soulkey or Symbol duke it out. I've never cared about race or gender I just want to watch insanely good matches between the actual top level players. If I want anything other than that I'll had over to Husky's channel and watch Rotterdam go carriers or whatever other cute thing he uploaded that week.
Making a post about an all female league is the equivalent of making a post about how some YouTube hero is holding a tournament between just foreigners.
Well, I also don't understand people's fixation with players based on nationality or skin tone or gender, I just like to see the best games. Though while I can't understand it literally, I can rationalize and accept that people are different, thus have different tastes, thus enjoy different things from me. And so there are people that just enjoy seeing their favorite player despite the fact said player will probably never win a tournament in his life, I can't understand why, I just need to accept it.
However, more relevant, there are people that like to see the best games from the best players, but they also like to, and want to see the next generation of gamers rise, be they foreign, Korean, male or female. And while; watching Mvp work his magic or Bomber macro his heart out, or Innovation parade push someone to death; never gets old I still want to see new faces and I want to see if or not they can rise to the challenge and reach the top, if they can become champion contenders because, ultimately its exciting to also see someone new come into the scene and shake it up a bit.
Hopefully more initiatives like the WSL come about, I really do need to check out the vods in my spare time.
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On September 02 2013 18:56 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 18:54 Valikyr wrote:On September 02 2013 18:17 iMAniaC wrote:
Actually, Barbie didn't make it, so it's Aphrodite vs OTL in the finals. I think they're tomorrow (tuesday) at 20:00 KST, but I'm not entirely certain (not speaking Korean). An earlier vod claimed that OTL was gold league, but she's beaten both a platinum and a master player, so that may have been a smurf (or misinformation). Or she may have cheesed her way to the finals. I haven't watched the games properly, so I'm not quite sure. A gold player just won't beat a masters player, cheese or not. A gold player cant win a bo7 against a masters player o.O
You've got to remember that this is Korean ladder. So gold in Korea is like high masters/low GM on US
Jokes aside, I just remembered that there was something weird about the league placement of one of the players and I double checked and got my suspicions confirmed: OTL was originally presented as a bronze player. Then, later, they had upped her to gold. Smells of smurfing.
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dam this OTL ruining my fantasies. watching what happened atm. aphrodite looks gorgeous in that pink dress
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On September 02 2013 18:59 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 04:21 skadumdums wrote:
I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to figure this obsession with watching sub par players face off based on their looks. this doesn't just apply to a female league but also to the numerous complaints about the WCS structure and how Koreans are too dominant.
I'm a huge fan of starcraft as a competitive activity, however I don't want to watch TLO play innovation. I'd rather see a top level zerg like Soulkey or Symbol duke it out. I've never cared about race or gender I just want to watch insanely good matches between the actual top level players. If I want anything other than that I'll had over to Husky's channel and watch Rotterdam go carriers or whatever other cute thing he uploaded that week.
Making a post about an all female league is the equivalent of making a post about how some YouTube hero is holding a tournament between just foreigners. Well, I also don't understand people's fixation with players based on nationality or skin tone or gender, I just like to see the best games. Though while I can't understand it literally, I can rationalize and accept that people are different, thus have different tastes, thus enjoy different things from me. And so there are people that just enjoy seeing their favorite player despite the fact said player will probably never win a tournament in his life, I can't understand why, I just need to accept it. However, more relevant, there are people that like to see the best games from the best players, but they also like to, and want to see the next generation of gamers rise, be they foreign, Korean, male or female. And while; watching Mvp work his magic or Bomber macro his heart out, or Innovation parade push someone to death; never gets old I still want to see new faces and I want to see if or not they can rise to the challenge and reach the top, if they can become champion contenders because, ultimately its exciting to also see someone new come into the scene and shake it up a bit. Hopefully more initiatives like the WSL come about, I really do need to check out the vods in my spare time.
And sometimes folks just want to watch some SC2 and this is on and looks interesting. Sometimes its just fun to watch people play and not really care if its the highest level play in the world.
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On September 04 2013 02:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 18:59 Destructicon wrote:On August 25 2013 04:21 skadumdums wrote:
I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to figure this obsession with watching sub par players face off based on their looks. this doesn't just apply to a female league but also to the numerous complaints about the WCS structure and how Koreans are too dominant.
I'm a huge fan of starcraft as a competitive activity, however I don't want to watch TLO play innovation. I'd rather see a top level zerg like Soulkey or Symbol duke it out. I've never cared about race or gender I just want to watch insanely good matches between the actual top level players. If I want anything other than that I'll had over to Husky's channel and watch Rotterdam go carriers or whatever other cute thing he uploaded that week.
Making a post about an all female league is the equivalent of making a post about how some YouTube hero is holding a tournament between just foreigners. Well, I also don't understand people's fixation with players based on nationality or skin tone or gender, I just like to see the best games. Though while I can't understand it literally, I can rationalize and accept that people are different, thus have different tastes, thus enjoy different things from me. And so there are people that just enjoy seeing their favorite player despite the fact said player will probably never win a tournament in his life, I can't understand why, I just need to accept it. However, more relevant, there are people that like to see the best games from the best players, but they also like to, and want to see the next generation of gamers rise, be they foreign, Korean, male or female. And while; watching Mvp work his magic or Bomber macro his heart out, or Innovation parade push someone to death; never gets old I still want to see new faces and I want to see if or not they can rise to the challenge and reach the top, if they can become champion contenders because, ultimately its exciting to also see someone new come into the scene and shake it up a bit. Hopefully more initiatives like the WSL come about, I really do need to check out the vods in my spare time. And sometimes folks just want to watch some SC2 and this is on and looks interesting. Sometimes its just fun to watch people play and not really care if its the highest level play in the world.
And sometimes it's fun to watch people who you can relate to, who can speak the same language as you and have come from an area near you. Sometimes it's fun to root for the underdogs, to get emotionally involved in the games rather than merely analyze top level play. Sometimes it's fun to watch players who are unique for various reasions, whether it's playstyle or race or gender, simply because they're unique. I definitely enjoy watching high level Koreans play most of the time, but I also like to watch the NA scene because the players are far more relatable to me and I always enjoy an underdog story.
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On September 04 2013 02:54 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 02:47 Plansix wrote:On September 02 2013 18:59 Destructicon wrote:On August 25 2013 04:21 skadumdums wrote:
I'm not trying to be insulting but I'm trying to figure this obsession with watching sub par players face off based on their looks. this doesn't just apply to a female league but also to the numerous complaints about the WCS structure and how Koreans are too dominant.
I'm a huge fan of starcraft as a competitive activity, however I don't want to watch TLO play innovation. I'd rather see a top level zerg like Soulkey or Symbol duke it out. I've never cared about race or gender I just want to watch insanely good matches between the actual top level players. If I want anything other than that I'll had over to Husky's channel and watch Rotterdam go carriers or whatever other cute thing he uploaded that week.
Making a post about an all female league is the equivalent of making a post about how some YouTube hero is holding a tournament between just foreigners. Well, I also don't understand people's fixation with players based on nationality or skin tone or gender, I just like to see the best games. Though while I can't understand it literally, I can rationalize and accept that people are different, thus have different tastes, thus enjoy different things from me. And so there are people that just enjoy seeing their favorite player despite the fact said player will probably never win a tournament in his life, I can't understand why, I just need to accept it. However, more relevant, there are people that like to see the best games from the best players, but they also like to, and want to see the next generation of gamers rise, be they foreign, Korean, male or female. And while; watching Mvp work his magic or Bomber macro his heart out, or Innovation parade push someone to death; never gets old I still want to see new faces and I want to see if or not they can rise to the challenge and reach the top, if they can become champion contenders because, ultimately its exciting to also see someone new come into the scene and shake it up a bit. Hopefully more initiatives like the WSL come about, I really do need to check out the vods in my spare time. And sometimes folks just want to watch some SC2 and this is on and looks interesting. Sometimes its just fun to watch people play and not really care if its the highest level play in the world. And sometimes it's fun to watch people who you can relate to, who can speak the same language as you and have come from an area near you. Sometimes it's fun to root for the underdogs, to get emotionally involved in the games rather than merely analyze top level play. Sometimes it's fun to watch players who are unique for various reasions, whether it's playstyle or race or gender, simply because they're unique. I definitely enjoy watching high level Koreans play most of the time, but I also like to watch the NA scene because the players are far more relatable to me and I always enjoy an underdog story.
Its weird, its almost like if we get away from the need to see the top level players all the time, there is room for everyone in SC2. Who would have thought?
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g1 standard pvp with stargate voidray barbie wins on macro and micro
otl cannon rushes barbie in g2
g3 otl goes DT into chargelot archon off 1 base
g4 proxy double gate on barbies main choke (LOL)
g5 proxy stargate. barbie misses the scout by 2 pixels. brushes off the harass anyway then crushes OTL
g6 cannon rush. barbie got too careless with her scouting.
conclusion: barbie got cheesed out, but i dont think OTL is a real gold player. also pvp is tremendously retarded but you all already knew that.
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I have to say that the level is quite good, despite only few of them are pros, games are sometimes more interesting than "high pro korean" matches.
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Wont' this be like watching the WNBA..really boring and watching 2nd tier sports.
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does anyone know when the finals will be played? this weekend if im not mistaken but not sure when exactly
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ok Aphrodite, just scout the cheese and you win
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On September 08 2013 23:29 rave[wcr] wrote:
does anyone know when the finals will be played? this weekend if im not mistaken but not sure when exactly
It seems they've already been played. The vods are up at http://www.afreeca.com/estv01/, but not yet on youtube.
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to save some of you some time.
g1 - OTL move commands into aphrodites 150ish army on her choke gg
g2 - OTL does a 2 gate, loses a bunch of units to a bunker, then goes into a 4 gate. aphrodite snipes an artosis pylon on 4 gateway with a drop leading to a 50 food lead
g3 - OTL pulls probes and rushes with 2 zealots and a mcore lol?
g4- OTL opens nexus first and aphrodite bunkers her in. gg after some dt shenanigans. aphrodite makes a battlecruiser for fun
easily the worst tournament ive ever watched after 8 years of watching WC3 and 2 years of watching SC2. i hope some korean barbie fanboys bully OTL into uninstalling sc2.
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Well, this tournament was about as free as it gets for Aphrodite. It'd almost make you think that StarTale was engaging in money laundering or something
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On September 11 2013 19:26 rave[wcr] wrote:
easily the worst tournament ive ever watched after 8 years of watching WC3 and 2 years of watching SC2. i hope some korean barbie fanboys bully OTL into uninstalling sc2.
This is pretty lame, dude.
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by Barbie on fb
하루에 서른판은 더 연습 또 연습했는데 광자포 러쉬나, 전진 2관문에 적절한 대처를 못하고 좋은 경기력 보여드리지 못한 점 죄송합니다. 가영언니랑 결승에서 꼭 만나고 싶었는데 제 역량이 많이 부족 했던 것 같습니다.
이번 WSL 을 계기로 한층 더 성숙해 질 수 있는 기회를 주신 것이라 생각하고 더욱 열심히 하는 이유라가 되겠습니다. 죄송합니다.
Day thirty-sixes was another practice practice more advanced optical suicidal rush or not appropriate to the cope 2 door great game strength show couldn't, sorry. A young sister wanted to meet at the Grand Finals of my competence, much seems to have been lacking.
This can be even more in the wake of the WSL maturity has given us the opportunity to think and reason, which is harder. I'm sorry.
reply by aphrodite
유라야 힘내구 다음 대회땐 꼭 결승에서 만나자♥ 홧팅!!I'm sure when the next contest the endurance power of yura meet in the final and now we are focusing on Ting ♥!!
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On September 11 2013 20:20 rave[wcr] wrote:
by Barbie on fb
하루에 서른판은 더 연습 또 연습했는데 광자포 러쉬나, 전진 2관문에 적절한 대처를 못하고 좋은 경기력 보여드리지 못한 점 죄송합니다. 가영언니랑 결승에서 꼭 만나고 싶었는데 제 역량이 많이 부족 했던 것 같습니다.
이번 WSL 을 계기로 한층 더 성숙해 질 수 있는 기회를 주신 것이라 생각하고 더욱 열심히 하는 이유라가 되겠습니다. 죄송합니다.
Day thirty-sixes was another practice practice more advanced optical suicidal rush or not appropriate to the cope 2 door great game strength show couldn't, sorry. A young sister wanted to meet at the Grand Finals of my competence, much seems to have been lacking.
This can be even more in the wake of the WSL maturity has given us the opportunity to think and reason, which is harder. I'm sorry.
reply by aphrodite
유라야 힘내구 다음 대회땐 꼭 결승에서 만나자♥ 홧팅!!I'm sure when the next contest the endurance power of yura meet in the final and now we are focusing on Ting ♥!!
"I practiced and practiced for 30 games a day, but I couldn't deal with cannon rushing or 2 gate proxying well, so I'm sorry. I wanted to make sure that I wanted to face sis Aphrodite at the final, but I wasn't nearly capable enough.
"I'll use this WSL as an occasion to mature one step and become a far more hard-working Barbie. I'm sorry."
"Stay strong, Barbie, and let's make sure to meet in the final of the next tournament. Fighting!!"
google translate is bad
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On September 11 2013 20:20 rave[wcr] wrote:
by Barbie on fb
하루에 서른판은 더 연습 또 연습했는데 광자포 러쉬나, 전진 2관문에 적절한 대처를 못하고 좋은 경기력 보여드리지 못한 점 죄송합니다. 가영언니랑 결승에서 꼭 만나고 싶었는데 제 역량이 많이 부족 했던 것 같습니다.
이번 WSL 을 계기로 한층 더 성숙해 질 수 있는 기회를 주신 것이라 생각하고 더욱 열심히 하는 이유라가 되겠습니다. 죄송합니다.
Day thirty-sixes was another practice practice more advanced optical suicidal rush or not appropriate to the cope 2 door great game strength show couldn't, sorry. A young sister wanted to meet at the Grand Finals of my competence, much seems to have been lacking.
This can be even more in the wake of the WSL maturity has given us the opportunity to think and reason, which is harder. I'm sorry.
reply by aphrodite
유라야 힘내구 다음 대회땐 꼭 결승에서 만나자♥ 홧팅!!I'm sure when the next contest the endurance power of yura meet in the final and now we are focusing on Ting ♥!!
I think there might be something lost in translation there But the gist of it is that they want to meet in the finals, it seems. Besides, now everyone knows that she's a cheese-machine, so she won't get away with it next time.
On September 11 2013 19:26 rave[wcr] wrote:
easily the worst tournament ive ever watched after 8 years of watching WC3 and 2 years of watching SC2. i hope some korean barbie fanboys bully OTL into uninstalling sc2.
What would be better, though, is if lots of Korean girls think "If she can get second place, then I can get second place. I'm gonna join for season 2" and then we see more and higher skilled players for the next season.
Edit: Yay, proper translation while I was typing!
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ah if only this was a selca taking tournament. LOL gl to barbie in the next wsl
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6s0oPP5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MOUgwLK.jpg)
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On September 11 2013 19:26 rave[wcr] wrote:
easily the worst tournament ive ever watched after 8 years of watching WC3 and 2 years of watching SC2. i hope some korean barbie fanboys bully OTL into uninstalling sc2.
Kinda harsh. Why'd you watch the whole thing if you found it to be terrible?
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On September 11 2013 21:11 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 19:26 rave[wcr] wrote:
easily the worst tournament ive ever watched after 8 years of watching WC3 and 2 years of watching SC2. i hope some korean barbie fanboys bully OTL into uninstalling sc2. Kinda harsh. Why'd you watch the whole thing if you found it to be terrible?
If he didn't, someone would post 'How do you know it was terrible if you didn't watch the whole thing?' Both are pointless arguments. You expect games to improve as you get further in the bracket.
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On September 11 2013 21:21 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 21:11 IntoTheheart wrote:On September 11 2013 19:26 rave[wcr] wrote:
easily the worst tournament ive ever watched after 8 years of watching WC3 and 2 years of watching SC2. i hope some korean barbie fanboys bully OTL into uninstalling sc2. Kinda harsh. Why'd you watch the whole thing if you found it to be terrible? If he didn't, someone would post 'How do you know it was terrible if you didn't watch the whole thing?' Both are pointless arguments. You expect games to improve as you get further in the bracket.
That's dangerous to say. You'd expect the quality of players to improve, not game quality. I've seen some great games out of players which aren't so great and some terrible games out of great players.
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On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't.
Well when you don't limit it to Korea...
Scarlett, Aphrodite, Eve (retired), Tilea, Flo, Miss, colagirl, maddelisk, kaitlyn, dasakura (probably retired?), Tossgirl (who, did play SC2 briefly...as zerg...also retired), Livibee, Aurora, puck (sometimes; perhaps only during the full moon)
I'm probably stretching the definition of "pro" for some of these, but I believe all of these are "on a team or have won money from tournaments". Think i have 10 there, even after discounting the retired ones.
(Actually, it strikes me that your wording didn't even limit it to SC2; for all that being able to name other games doesn't help me).
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You: so do you think you can beat barbie prime?
cant wait till you guys meet ^_^
Quanticflo: yes
You: :D
confidence from flo. cant wait till next girl tourney :D
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On September 11 2013 23:57 metroid composite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't. Well when you don't limit it to Korea... Scarlett, Aphrodite, Eve (retired), Tilea, Flo, Miss, colagirl, maddelisk, kaitlyn, dasakura (probably retired?), Tossgirl (who, did play SC2 briefly...as zerg...also retired), Livibee, Aurora, puck (sometimes; perhaps only during the full moon) I'm probably stretching the definition of "pro" for some of these, but I believe all of these are "on a team or have won money from tournaments". Think i have 10 there, even after discounting the retired ones. (Actually, it strikes me that your wording didn't even limit it to SC2; for all that being able to name other games doesn't help me).
the only good player thats a girl there is FLO. tilea and scarlett are men with a "condition"
the rest are random certainly not pro and at BEST low masters players. if there is a good female pro gamer out there she woulda emerged by now
User was banned for this post.
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Being transgender is not being a "man with a condition."
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Holy shit that tournament was one sided. Can't wait for something like this to happen on an international level, really curious who would be the top 3 there.
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On September 13 2013 17:57 JustPassingBy wrote:
Holy shit that tournament was one sided. Can't wait for something like this to happen on an international level, really curious who would be the top 3 there.
Scarlett, Tilea, Aphrodite most likely. But then again sc2 is a volatile game.
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On September 13 2013 17:55 Heartland wrote:
Being transgender is not being a "man with a condition."
what if a transgender male entered a female lifting competition and dominated everyone. people would say "oh its because he is PHYSICALLY a male" but we know NOTHING about the human brain so who are we to say how the brain ACTUALLY works.
go read up on the subject there is no scientific evidence based on our current understandings to support that this identity issue is even a real thing. for all intents and purposes these are male brains that are processing these war games like OTHER males who generally tend to be better than women.
untill (especially this site) stops crying about the topic and someone in the world actually hashes out this discussion out you nor I am right or wrong, its opinion.
also if scarlett is allowed in the tourny scarlett wont drop a single game. scarletts way too good
edit - there shouldnt even BE female sc2. if we are all mentally equal and you can rebind your keyboard to help with females who have smaller hands, there isnt a need for a tourny for JUST women. its insulting
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Guys can i ask you something? dont you think it is strange for a person to practice so much hours aday and still lose to a no name that cheeses ?
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sc2wow: I have a master's degree relating to this issue, I know what the research field looks like. I'll leave it at that, there are enough threads on here debating gender and transgender and I have little interest in derailing this thread with a likely troll.
Zaxon: Grubby lost in the exact same way in the WCS EU. It's about nerves, the difference between ladder and league matches, etc. So no, I don't think it's that weird.
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On September 13 2013 18:51 Heartland wrote:
sc2wow: I have a master's degree relating to this issue, I know what the research field looks like. I'll leave it at that, there are enough threads on here debating gender and transgender and I have little interest in derailing this thread with a likely troll.
Zaxon: Grubby lost in the exact same way in the WCS EU. It's about nerves, the difference between ladder and league matches, etc. So no, I don't think it's that weird.
ok so whats the mental dif between a transgender, male, and female brain in terms of processing information.
lets be honest the idea of a sport that mostly brain power having a male and a female tourny and then 2 of the best players from said game are in some sort of limbo is a bit unfair to discuss. on one hand im "being offensive" on the other im being blunt
there is a reason this tourny had such bad games and it isnt because its a female tourny, its because there are barely any good female gamers and the ones that are good are way better then the rest
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On September 13 2013 17:48 sc2wow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 23:57 metroid composite wrote:On August 01 2013 01:40 synd wrote:
Now name 10 female pro gamers. -Nope, you can't. Well when you don't limit it to Korea... Scarlett, Aphrodite, Eve (retired), Tilea, Flo, Miss, colagirl, maddelisk, kaitlyn, dasakura (probably retired?), Tossgirl (who, did play SC2 briefly...as zerg...also retired), Livibee, Aurora, puck (sometimes; perhaps only during the full moon) I'm probably stretching the definition of "pro" for some of these, but I believe all of these are "on a team or have won money from tournaments". Think i have 10 there, even after discounting the retired ones. (Actually, it strikes me that your wording didn't even limit it to SC2; for all that being able to name other games doesn't help me). the only good player thats a girl there is FLO. tilea and scarlett are men with a "condition" the rest are random certainly not pro and at BEST low masters players. if there is a good female pro gamer out there she woulda emerged by now
You clearly havent seen maddelisk play in quite a while.
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On September 13 2013 18:59 sc2wow wrote:there is a reason this tourny had such bad games and it isnt because its a female tourny, its because there are barely any good female gamers and the ones that are good are way better then the rest
Actually, I'm kind of inclined to think that it was a matter of attendance. Among the players, there's a very conspicuous jump from Platinum to Masters. I would think that there is at least one female Diamond player in Korea and probably a couple more as well. So I think there might be more good female gamers than you make it look like. That being said, Aphrodite might still race through the bracket without dropping a single game, even if the bracket consisted of the eight best female players of Korea, but at least the games should be more even...
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Wait what ? Tilea is a transgender too ? Mind blown. Did not know that.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://estv.kr/files/attach/images/277/573/2390f5e8b2807e038e39b331d85df460.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://estv.kr/files/attach/images/389/391/4d584d985c5e9f732c9cebf309e92bab.jpg)
