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On July 23 2013 09:54 Crytash wrote:
The bond is part of the playerbase. DotA started as a/the mod/maps AOS (Aeon of Strife, you may remember it from sc:bw), so its real roots go way back as you might have realised, this map evolved in blizzards next title (wc3), it was balanced, got bigger and bigger and many people loved it (more people than wc3 at some time).
As you can see the scenes were always kinda together and when sc2 came out/was in beta ofc i watched streams (german and english ones) of sc2, it was only natural, that we could/would either continue with our healthy symbiosis or get our own game - but Blizzard did not realy reacted, so S2, Riot and Valve made their arts/moba/aos game and many who had high hoped for Sc2, did go the these other companys.
This does not change history though, i was happy with Blizzard for over a decade.
It is less about the actual numbers to me and yes i agree, the gameplay has hugely improvemed since WoL and no, there will not be a real competition who will have the bigger numbers, but it shows that Blizzard is not the company it was. With the people 10 years ago, this would NOT have happend.
This kind of mistakes, paired with the circumstance NASL/MLG just show me, that Blizzard and me drifted apart and this realisation, that Blizzard is not the company that it once was, that is what is hitting me so hard.
Blizzard had no tournaments like this 10 years ago so I don't see how you can say that. And didn't people outside of Blizzard made these mods that became so popular? I think you are giving Blizzard the company WAY too much credit for these types of things.
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I think it's pretty bad when we get less major tournaments this year, there has to be a horrible overlap like this.
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On July 23 2013 09:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:54 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 09:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:36 Plansix wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Dramatic much? In tears? God forbid that some people might actually, get this, care a lot more than you... O_O In tears is a bit dramatic over one set of finals being the same weekend as another event. It not ideal, but it's what they could do. I don't see getting super worked up over something that's not ideal. Other people may have other priorities in life. Just because you don't agree with them or don't get their emotions doesn't necessarily make them wrong. Yes, but I don't discount that, but it's a little over the top in this case.
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On July 23 2013 10:00 dcsoda wrote:
Blizzard had no tournaments like this 10 years ago so I don't see how you can say that. And didn't people outside of Blizzard made these mods that became so popular? I think you are giving Blizzard the company WAY too much credit for these types of things.
It is obvious, that i am talking about a direct fight for tournaments, but about the way and direction, this decission leads. Well they provided their community with a Mapmaker, they gave easy access to host custom games iirc they even had dota once at a event. Of course they did not make enough in terms of publishing DotA on their own, but that could be overseen easily, becouse they just were mistaken. This decission was made in full command of their mental faculties (at least i hope so) and there is no way, that they are realy thinking that this is a good or even medium solution.
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what really bothers me the most is that SC2 isn't even that exciting, so it's like they're further-shooting themselves in the foot.
Eh, but I mean compared to evo or ti3 and other 'single' events, i guess it cant really compete with either. there are so many sc2 tourneys haha
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Sorry, but TI3 > WCS...i play sc2 first, but thats a one tournament a year event
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On July 23 2013 09:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:48 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:42 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:41 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much dota 2 for blizzard is just like any other competitor game.The bond exists only in the mind of the fans and i am not even sure about those since the majority of dota 2 fans never heard of dota 1 and never heard of wc3/bw/sc2.Just check the dota2 reddit thingy.new fans only see dota2 as it is now. Really? Can you support that claim with actual evidence? Because as far as I know, this "majority of dota 2 fans" are actually Chinese, and are only DotA 2 fans because they were DotA 1 fans. DotA was fucking massive in China, not in the esports sense that WC3 was (and BW in Korea) but it was still wildly popular, especially for the amateur WC3 players. China and Korea where esports have different traditions and continuities are different things.Fact is the hundreds of thousands of people watching dota2 on twitch and the many dota2 tournaments with their huge success did not exist during the dota1 days when,although succesfull,dota 1 was still a niche esport just like that moba form south korea.Many of the foreign fans only know about mobas form lol and dota and could not care less about anything else.So yeah the traditional bond between sc and dota only exists between old fans of blizzard games aka the ones that playe dboth wc3/bw/dota1.The new ones could not care less about history I'm not even talking about "the bond between sc and dota", I'm just saying the Chinese are still far and away the majority of DotA 2 followers, and only because of how massive DotA 1 and WC3 were in China. You think WC3 was so big just because it was a good game? No, it also had a shit ton of great custom games for the amateur players to enjoy, and DotA happened to become the biggest. Same goes for Brood War, most people played BGH/fastest and other UMS with their friends. Just because they didn't have $1 mil. tournaments for them doesn't mean they weren't huge.
You are taking the discussion into a path I did not originally intend.The entire point of my argument with the initial guy was the fact that in the foreign scene at least dota1 was a niche esport and most of the dota2 fans,the hundreds of thousands of them,only started watching and caring about dota since dota2.They did not catch the wc3 era and even fewer remember aeon of strife in broodwar.Hence the new dota2 fans have little to no connection with the sc2 community and even less blizzard.The initial user stated something about this bond in the communities,a bond that form my perspective exist only in the elder generation of gamers who are in very small numbers.I perfectly agree with you on the info you provided on the succes and fun of wc3 in China and other parts of the world
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On July 23 2013 10:16 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:48 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:42 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:41 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much dota 2 for blizzard is just like any other competitor game.The bond exists only in the mind of the fans and i am not even sure about those since the majority of dota 2 fans never heard of dota 1 and never heard of wc3/bw/sc2.Just check the dota2 reddit thingy.new fans only see dota2 as it is now. Really? Can you support that claim with actual evidence? Because as far as I know, this "majority of dota 2 fans" are actually Chinese, and are only DotA 2 fans because they were DotA 1 fans. DotA was fucking massive in China, not in the esports sense that WC3 was (and BW in Korea) but it was still wildly popular, especially for the amateur WC3 players. China and Korea where esports have different traditions and continuities are different things.Fact is the hundreds of thousands of people watching dota2 on twitch and the many dota2 tournaments with their huge success did not exist during the dota1 days when,although succesfull,dota 1 was still a niche esport just like that moba form south korea.Many of the foreign fans only know about mobas form lol and dota and could not care less about anything else.So yeah the traditional bond between sc and dota only exists between old fans of blizzard games aka the ones that playe dboth wc3/bw/dota1.The new ones could not care less about history I'm not even talking about "the bond between sc and dota", I'm just saying the Chinese are still far and away the majority of DotA 2 followers, and only because of how massive DotA 1 and WC3 were in China. You think WC3 was so big just because it was a good game? No, it also had a shit ton of great custom games for the amateur players to enjoy, and DotA happened to become the biggest. Same goes for Brood War, most people played BGH/fastest and other UMS with their friends. Just because they didn't have $1 mil. tournaments for them doesn't mean they weren't huge. You are taking the discussion into a path I did not originally intend.The entire point of my argument with the initial guy was the fact that in the foreign scene at least dota1 was a niche esport and most of the dota2 fans,the hundreds of thousands of them,only started watching and caring about dota since dota2.They did not catch the wc3 era and even fewer remember aeon of strife in broodwar.Hence the new dota2 fans have little to no connection with the sc2 community and even less blizzard.The initial user stated something about this bond in the communities,a bond that form my perspective exist only in the elder generation of gamers who are in very small numbers.I perfectly agree with you on the info you provided on the succes and fun of wc3 in China and other parts of the world
I was a part the german dota 1 wiki. I bought Wc3/FT three or four times, becouse i lost the key. Dota was much more popular than wc3 itself, only becouse it was not a esport does not mean, people were not interested in it and that this is such a big thing for so many (look at reddit and here on TL) should be prove enough, that there is a bond.
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See, KESPA could do this 'our way or the highway' thing because they were in a position of strength. Blizzard...not so much. Valve is probably laughing itself silly over all the free advertisement TI3 is getting right now lmao.
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There is virtually no worse weekend than the one chosen, in addition to the decision of all three regions to be on the same weekend. This is the self-proclaimed "best" that Blizzard could do?
Blizzard's handling of WCS and doing their "best" continues to be catastrophic for the Starcraft II scene. And at this point I don't think that statement is hyperbole anymore.
I just don't understand how they can think that they can compete with TI3 (and this isn't shitting on Starcraft; there is no game or esport that can compete with TI3. Even Riot has scheduled LCS around TI3.) And then, even if they had scheduled this for a weekend that wasn't competing with the Superbowl of esports, they expect viewers to either a) only want to watch some of the matches and disregard the rest or b) watch Starcraft around the clock with no other obligations.
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Of course there're a bond. Blizzard and Valve argued over the name Dota Allstar and they settle with Blizzard allstar and Valve dota2 lol
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On July 23 2013 10:29 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 10:28 Taku wrote:
See, KESPA could do this 'our way or the highway' thing because they were in a position of strength. Blizzard...not so much. Valve is probably laughing itself silly over all the free advertisement TI3 is getting right now lmao. Your signature is obnoxious ><
It really is, but it's moments like this that justify it, no? xD
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On July 23 2013 10:22 Crytash wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 10:16 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:48 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:42 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 09:41 theking1 wrote:On July 23 2013 09:33 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:26 dcsoda wrote:On July 23 2013 09:23 Crytash wrote:On July 23 2013 09:13 Zealously wrote:
I'll react properly when I stop laughing in a few weeks How can you laugh? I am in tears now, becouse this is so depressing. How can Blizzard do things like this? I am filled with sadness and anger that i can not fucking sleep. This is one of the worst moments in my personal eSports/gaming life and that includes leaving WoW, stop playing Diablo 2/Wc3/Wc2 and closing the german Dota 1 wiki, where i was the head admin... I don't even know what Blizzard is thinking... Well that's because you are overreacting. Maybe i am, but for me this is the nail in the coffin of Blizzard as a company i like. We all know, that WCS was not as good for the scene as we all would have liked, but i always wanted to believe, that it will get better and that both Dota 2 and Sc2 ,who share a very unique bond, won't have that many problems with each other. For me Blizzard is/was one of the best video game developer, who just understood his customers. This might be a simplification, but they always were the good guys and i even feel childish to blieved that way, but that is how i felt deep down. Now i just have to accept, that they not only "*uck up" theeir own games, no(!) they also seem to do that with others. It just sadens me so much dota 2 for blizzard is just like any other competitor game.The bond exists only in the mind of the fans and i am not even sure about those since the majority of dota 2 fans never heard of dota 1 and never heard of wc3/bw/sc2.Just check the dota2 reddit thingy.new fans only see dota2 as it is now. Really? Can you support that claim with actual evidence? Because as far as I know, this "majority of dota 2 fans" are actually Chinese, and are only DotA 2 fans because they were DotA 1 fans. DotA was fucking massive in China, not in the esports sense that WC3 was (and BW in Korea) but it was still wildly popular, especially for the amateur WC3 players. China and Korea where esports have different traditions and continuities are different things.Fact is the hundreds of thousands of people watching dota2 on twitch and the many dota2 tournaments with their huge success did not exist during the dota1 days when,although succesfull,dota 1 was still a niche esport just like that moba form south korea.Many of the foreign fans only know about mobas form lol and dota and could not care less about anything else.So yeah the traditional bond between sc and dota only exists between old fans of blizzard games aka the ones that playe dboth wc3/bw/dota1.The new ones could not care less about history I'm not even talking about "the bond between sc and dota", I'm just saying the Chinese are still far and away the majority of DotA 2 followers, and only because of how massive DotA 1 and WC3 were in China. You think WC3 was so big just because it was a good game? No, it also had a shit ton of great custom games for the amateur players to enjoy, and DotA happened to become the biggest. Same goes for Brood War, most people played BGH/fastest and other UMS with their friends. Just because they didn't have $1 mil. tournaments for them doesn't mean they weren't huge. You are taking the discussion into a path I did not originally intend.The entire point of my argument with the initial guy was the fact that in the foreign scene at least dota1 was a niche esport and most of the dota2 fans,the hundreds of thousands of them,only started watching and caring about dota since dota2.They did not catch the wc3 era and even fewer remember aeon of strife in broodwar.Hence the new dota2 fans have little to no connection with the sc2 community and even less blizzard.The initial user stated something about this bond in the communities,a bond that form my perspective exist only in the elder generation of gamers who are in very small numbers.I perfectly agree with you on the info you provided on the succes and fun of wc3 in China and other parts of the world I was a part the german dota 1 wiki. I bought Wc3/FT three or four times, becouse i lost the key. Dota was much more popular than wc3 itself, only becouse it was not a esport does not mean, people were not interested in it and that this is such a big thing for so many (look at reddit and here on TL) should be prove enough, that there is a bond.
you sort of fall into the oldschool gamer category aka the ones who played wc3 and dota1.Most new dota2 fans never played those.And reddit and teamliquid arent representative of casual fans but more of the more involved ones.Dota2 has hundreds of thousands of watchers.How many people are in the tl and reddit forum?Couple of thousands maybe.And many say they never heard of blizzard or sc2....
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On July 23 2013 10:28 Emzeeshady wrote:
Could someone tell me what TI3 is? :/ The International 3. It's an annual tournament sponsored by Valve, with a $1,600,000 USD prize pool (1st place gets 1mil). Happens once a year.
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On July 23 2013 10:28 Taku wrote:
See, KESPA could do this 'our way or the highway' thing because they were in a position of strength. Blizzard...not so much. Valve is probably laughing itself silly over all the free advertisement TI3 is getting right now lmao.
No Valve is angry they can't sell a 'trading card' for this. Though give them time I guess.
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On July 23 2013 10:31 Taku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 10:29 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 10:28 Taku wrote:
See, KESPA could do this 'our way or the highway' thing because they were in a position of strength. Blizzard...not so much. Valve is probably laughing itself silly over all the free advertisement TI3 is getting right now lmao. Your signature is obnoxious >< It really is, but it's moments like this that justify it, no? xD
Not really, still obnoxious. But this is the Internet, so it is expected.
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Can't wait for TI, Blizz have killed all of their franchises to me in recent years
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No Valve is angry they can't sell a 'trading card' for this. Though give them time I guess.[/QUOTE]
Betcha a RTS that Valve sure got a great idea today for that immortal weapon they're planning to give the Compendium buyers if the prize pool hits payday 
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EPT
